Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM

I am reminded of a kids song I heard in Texas. Boys poking cowpies with sticks. Can't quite remember it, but something like:


Stirring cowpies in the pasture,
Worms are wrigglin, and bye and bye,
Cowpies holey, flies are risin
See they fly up, to the sky.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 12:41 PM

OK, Q, lets try a slightly different tack.

Lets assume there is a song featuring an unrepentant member of the Wehrmacht or Schutzstaffel in which he expresses vicious hatred of the Allies, the Geneva Conventions & the Nuremberg Trials, wishes he had killed more Russians and Poles, makes light of feeding Jews into the ovens and states proudly that he joined a neo-Nazi group after the war.

Would this song also represent "the best of human nature"?

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 01:11 PM

Randolph's song, to which Amos and Q refer, isn't much like that, and it's usually performed in a spirit of sheer cussedness and perversity. Its wide appeal undoubtedly comes from the repeated "I do not care a damn!" rather than from any reactionary politics.

The song takes exaggerated shots at symbols of U.S. Government authority, including the uniformed Freedman's Bureau and even the "Yankee Eagle," which doesn't seem worth a sane person's "hatred" for its purely imaginary "squall an' fuss."

As statements of (white) democracy, both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were held in high regard by Confederate intellectuals. (Except for incorporating slavery, secession, and Jesus, the CSA Constitution was much like our own.) The song contains not a word of overt racism (which Randolph could easily have included, had he a mind to.) The hyperbolic, deadpan wish that "it was three million instead o' what we got!" reveals - to the educated Victorian readers of Randolph's serious poetry - just how crude and uncivilized this character really is.

On the other hand, the derivative song printed by the Warners is a different kettle of fish. It has no subtleties. It does bear some resemblance to the imagined SS song. Its offensive intentions are blatant and inarguable.

More significantly, however, it appears to have been reported only once. Nor, as far as I know, has it ever been recorded or performed on a public stage. (If it has, its place in American pop culture nevertheless remains at zero.)

So, yeah, Randolph's song can be misused by those who want to. To me, that doesn't make the song itself offensive. The other one, however, is beyond the pale.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 05:06 PM

Hi, Lighter-

In the main, I agree with you, though I don't quite see Randolph's original words being quite as benign as you seem to. The comments about the U.S. Constitution & Declaration of Independence, among others, could also be taken at face value - & it doesn't seem that Major James Innes Randolph, Topographical Engineers, CSA, meant the song entirely as a burlesque of an ignorant Confederate peckerwood.

be that as it may, nowhere did Amos, or Q in defense of Amos, make even remotely clear they were referring to the original poem/song.


As for how the song is performed, viewed & received, do take a look
at a few of the dozens of versions on YouTube & be sure to read the comments. Quite enlightening.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Amos
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 06:04 PM

Greg:

Are you being a thorn in the bewtocks intentionally? Or is it just a bad day?

The defense of self-determination in the face of overwhelming force is certainly one of the finer aspects of the human spirit when facing overwhelming odds.

Furthermore it may have escaped your attention that for many of the rank and file of the CSA, the casus belli was the right of States to define their own path. While I have no axe to grind for States' rights when it comes to slavery, or secession either, I do respect the spark of self-determination behind those issues. That is really all I meant, and I don't think it is worth all the argument as it is purely a personal opinion.


A

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:08 PM

No, Amos, despite the current neo-confederate resurgence in popularity of the old 19th century lie, the Civil War was not fought over "states' rights" nor the right of self determination. [ Nor was the KKK was not a social club, on the off chance you believe that, as well.]

And "defense of self-determination in the face of overwhelming force"
cannot be divorced from the context in which that defense was, or is, mounted, and what it was mounted to defend.

If you consider that makes me a thorn in the bewtocks, I'm comfortable

By the way, you haven't commented upon the song "I'm A Good Old Wehrmacht Soldier".

Have a nice evening.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:42 PM

Don't know how many Confederate peckerwoods there were, but the Union troops were more numerous, hence there must have been more rural soldiers on the Union side.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Amos
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 12:14 AM

Greg:

It's a very different thing to say a war was "fought over" an issue. Economics being what they are, the War of Secession was fueld by the slavery issue, I agree. What I said, however, was that many CSA ordinaries were motivated not by slavery but by the right of the STate to determine its own path. Surely the difference is obvious?

A

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: mg
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 01:02 AM

There aren't many left of us who rode out at the start
And them that are, are weary, weak in body, sad of heart


whoever wrote those words knew what he or she was talking about...

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 08:51 AM

Those lines are about trad fans, aren't they?

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 09:07 AM

... many CSA ordinaries were motivated not by slavery but by the right of the State to determine its own path...

And the path that the states in question had chosen was that of supporting and perpetuating slavery, of subjugation of Black folks free or slave and of bearing arms against the government of the United States.

Surely that is obvious as well.

What should be equally obvious is the many times the rank and file have not the slightest idea - or an erronious idea - regarding WHY they are actually at war - I give you Viet Nam and Iraq as two examples of many.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 11:54 AM

Masie, git the swatter. Thet pesky fly is back.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 05:22 PM

Cute. Got anything cogent and/or substantive to say?

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 08:30 AM

Lighter, thanks for the links at 7:42 P.M. on 4/1/13. I hadn't heard it in awhile. BTW,it was Hoyt Axton, not Ry Cooder, singing.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 08:45 AM

You're welcome. "Son of a Gambolier" seems to be sung by Hoyt Axton, but "Joe Bowers" is Ry Cooder.

A sample of a version sung to a tune resembling "Get Along Home, Cindy, Cindy":

http://www.emusic.com/album/idlewild-2/promontory/12028849/

Subject: Lyr Add: RECONSTRUCTION SONG
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 03:45 PM

This is the oldest version I can find with Google Books. I have not found any information about when, where, etc., the play was performed.

From a play, The Tragedy of Abraham Lincoln, or, The Rise and Fall of the Confederate States by Hiram D. Torrie & Selden Whitaker Crowe* (New York: Dr. C. W. Selden, 1881), page 62:


RECONSTRUCTION SONG,
Air, "Joe Bowers."

"Oh, I'm a good old Rebel,
Now that's just what I am;
For this fair land of freedom
I do not care a damn.
I'm glad I fought against it,
I only wish I'd won,
I don't want any pardon
For anything I've done.

"I hate the Constitution,
This great republic too;
I hate the Freedman's Bureau,
In uniforms of blue;
I hate the nasty eagle,
With all its brag and fuss;
The lying, thieving Yankees,
I hate them worse and worse.

"I hate the Yankee nation,
And everything they do;
I hate the Declaration
Of Independence too;
I hate the glorious Union,
'Tis dripping with our blood;
I hate the striped banner,
I fought it all I could.

"Five hundred thousand Yankees
Lie stiff in Southern dust;
We lost three hundred thousand
Before they conquered us.
They died of Southern fever,
And Southern steel and shot,
I wish it was ten million
Instead of what we got.

"I cannot raise an army,
To fight 'em any more;
And I will never like them,
Now that is certain sure.
But I don't want any pardon
For what I was and am;
I won't be reconstructed,
If I do, may I be damned."

[This song is sung by Jeff Davis at the very end of the play.

[* The authors' names are supplied by the cataloguer; they are not printed in the book.]

Subject: Lyr Add: O I'M A GOOD OLD REBEL.(I. Randolph)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Apr 13 - 04:35 PM

From sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Sheet Music Collection. (There is no publication data.)


O I'M A GOOD OLD REBEL.
A Chaunt to the Wild Western Melody, "Joe Bowers."
Respectfully dedicated to the Hon. Thad. Stevens.

By IR*

O I'm a good old rebel,
Now that's just what I am,
For this "Fair Land of Freedom"
I do not care at all; [sic]
I'm glad I fit against it—
I only wish we'd won
And I don't want no pardon
For any thing I done.

I hate the Constitution,
This Great Republic, too,
I hates the Freedman's Buro,
In uniforms of blue;
I hates the nasty eagle,
With all his braggs and fuss,
The lyin', thievin' Yankees,
I hates 'em wuss and wuss.

I hates the Yankee nation
And everything they do,
I hates the Declaration
Of Independence, too;
I hates the glorious Union—
'Tis dripping with our blood—
I hates their striped banner,
I fit it all I could.

I followed old mas' Robert
For four year, near about,
Got wounded in three places
And starved at Pint Lookout;
I cotch the roomatism
A campin' in the snow,
But I killed a chance o' Yankees,
I'd like to kill some mo'.

Three hundred thousand Yankees
Is stiff in Southern dust;
We got three hundred thousand
Before they conquered us;
They died of Southern fever
And Southern steel and shot,
I wish they was three million
Instead of what we got.

I can't take up my musket
And fight 'em now no more,
But I ain't a going to love 'em,
Now that is sarten sure;
And I don't want no pardon
For what I was and am,
I won't be reconstructed
And I don't care a dam.


[* The "I" is engraved superimposed on the "R"—or is it the other way round? Does the monogram represent "I. R." or "R. I."? Except that the poem is attributed elsewhere to Innes Randolph, I wouldn't have a clue.]

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 06:36 PM

The song was advertised as new in the Richmond Whig and Public Advertiser (January 1, 1867).

The Richmond Times of Jan. 8 added the name of the lyricist:

“NEW MUSIC Just published by Johnson & Chamberlayne, Music Dealers and Publishers … O, I’m A Good Old Rebel – Randolph (vocal). Price, 50 cents.”

So that settles that.

Two weeks later Randolph's song was advertised in the Raleigh (N.C.) Field and Fireside, with this editorial observation:

"Its words are such as we should be compelled to condemn were they seriously spoken." But presumably they weren't.

On the Jan. 30, the Valley Virginian (Clifton Forge) published the first slightly variant text (as "The Lay of the Last Rebel"), which managed to insert the "N-word."

By March 7, the song was known in faraway Indiana, where it really was condemned by the Evansville Daily Journal, which called its author a homicidal "wretch" who proudly boasted of killing Yankees.

On March 21, the Litchfield [Conn.] Enquirer reprinted the entire song ironically as an "indication of southern patriotism [to the United States]."

By the end of the year, the lyrics had been printed in papers from
Maine to California and Louisiana to Oregon, only sometimes with the "Joe Bowers" tune recommended. One assumes that the alternative tunes ("Son of a Gamboleer" and "Yellow Rose of Texas") were applied by readers unaware of the proper one.

Had there been a hit parade in 1867, it looks like "I'm a Good Old Rebel" would have been on it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 09:23 PM

Informative:

https://www.southerncultures.org/article/the-good-old-rebel-at-the-heart-of-the-radical-right/


Vance Randolph recorded 70-year-old Booth Campbell's somewhat unusual version at Cane Hill, Ark., in Feb., 1942. This is it, but it was Campbell's father who was a "Confederate veteran":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nixg7wwuG2Y

Campbell's tune reminds me of another that I can't quite place.

In 1901 a Union veteran from Kentucky had written to the National Tribune (Washington, D.C.) for the words to a Southern song that began, "I'm glad I'm a good old rebel, hat, coat, boots, and all" - just like Campbell's.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 09:48 AM

Sung by Leonard W. Jones (1868-1961), for collector Sidney Robertson Cowell in Pine Grove, Calif., in 1939.

https://www.loc.gov/item/2017701788/


Oh, I’m a good old rebel, yes,
        That’s just what I am,
For this land of freedom, oh,
        I do not care a damn;
I’m glad I fought against it,
        I only wish I’d [sic] won;
I don’t ask any pardon
        For anything I done.

Now there is old Ben Butler,
            That thieving, sly old coon;
He stoled all of our silver,
             Even our silver spoons.
He burned up all our houses,
             And took our homes away;
And as the only recompense,
             We killed the Yanks for pay.

Three hundred thousand Yankees
             Now lie in Southern dust;
Yes, we got three hundred thousand
             Before they conquered us;
They died of Southern fever,
             Of Southern steel and shot;
And I wish that’d been three million
             Instid of what we got.

Now if there’s anyone in the crowd
            Don’t like the song I sing,
He can throw himself upon his back
            Jump up and flop his wings;
For I sing songs to suit myself,
            I’m just that kind of a man;
And I don’t care a damn for U.S. Grant
            Or any of his radical clan.

Those who don't like it may run around like headless chickens.

The lines about Grant and Butler presumably date from 1868, when former Union General Butler was head prosecutor in the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson, and Ulysses Grant was elected president.

Jones's tune is somewhere between "Sam Bass" and "Son of a Gambolier."

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: cnd
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 09:57 AM

Though the lyrics to Booth Campbell's recording are (mostly) in the video, I couldn't immediately find them in text version, so I transcribed them from the above. I'll keep thinking on the tune, but that's always a weak point of mine, so no promises.

I'M GLAD I'M A GOOD OLD REBEL
(as recorded by Booth Campbell)

Oh, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
I won't care if I am
I won't be reconstructed
If I am may I be damned

Oh, I followed old Marse Roberts
For four years nearabout
Got wounded in three places
And I started at Camp Lookout

Oh, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
Hat, boots, coat, and all
I won't be reconstructed
No sir, not at all

I hate that Yankee nation
And all they say and do
I hate the Declaration
Of Independence, too

I hate that striped banner
With all its rare and fuss
Them lying, thieving Yankees
I hate 'em wuss and wuss

Oh, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
I don't care if I am
I won't be reconstructed
No sir, not a damn!

I can't take up my musket
And fight 'em any more
But I ain't a-going to love 'em
Now that am certain sure

Yes, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
Hat, boots, coat, and all
I won't be reconstructed
No sir, not at all

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 01:11 PM

The tune I had in mind (I think) is part of "MacNamara's Band," by O'Connor & Stamford (1889).

Related is Fred Seaver's "Solomon Levi" (1885).

The tunes are similar to Campbell's but not identical.

Campbell's father was a Confederate veteran, but there's no guarantee that Campbell learned the song from him or even before 1889.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 09:48 AM

Sung by Leonard W. Jones (1868-1961), for collector Sidney Robertson Cowell in Pine Grove, Calif., in 1939.

https://www.loc.gov/item/2017701788/


Oh, I’m a good old rebel, yes,
        That’s just what I am,
For this land of freedom, oh,
        I do not care a damn;
I’m glad I fought against it,
        I only wish I’d [sic] won;
I don’t ask any pardon
        For anything I done.

Now there is old Ben Butler,
            That thieving, sly old coon;
He stoled all of our silver,
             Even our silver spoons.
He burned up all our houses,
             And took our homes away;
And as the only recompense,
             We killed the Yanks for pay.

Three hundred thousand Yankees
             Now lie in Southern dust;
Yes, we got three hundred thousand
             Before they conquered us;
They died of Southern fever,
             Of Southern steel and shot;
And I wish that’d been three million
             Instid of what we got.

Now if there’s anyone in the crowd
            Don’t like the song I sing,
He can throw himself upon his back
            Jump up and flop his wings;
For I sing songs to suit myself,
            I’m just that kind of a man;
And I don’t care a damn for U.S. Grant
            Or any of his radical clan.

Those who don't like it may run around like headless chickens.

The lines about Grant and Butler presumably date from 1868, when former Union General Butler was head prosecutor in the impeachment trial of Andrew Johnson, and Ulysses Grant was elected president.

Jones's tune is somewhere between "Sam Bass" and "Son of a Gambolier."

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 06:36 PM

The song was advertised as new in the Richmond Whig and Public Advertiser (January 1, 1867).

The Richmond Times of Jan. 8 added the name of the lyricist:

“NEW MUSIC Just published by Johnson & Chamberlayne, Music Dealers and Publishers … O, I’m A Good Old Rebel – Randolph (vocal). Price, 50 cents.”

So that settles that.

Two weeks later Randolph's song was advertised in the Raleigh (N.C.) Field and Fireside, with this editorial observation:

"Its words are such as we should be compelled to condemn were they seriously spoken." But presumably they weren't.

On the Jan. 30, the Valley Virginian (Clifton Forge) published the first slightly variant text (as "The Lay of the Last Rebel"), which managed to insert the "N-word."

By March 7, the song was known in faraway Indiana, where it really was condemned by the Evansville Daily Journal, which called its author a homicidal "wretch" who proudly boasted of killing Yankees.

On March 21, the Litchfield [Conn.] Enquirer reprinted the entire song ironically as an "indication of southern patriotism [to the United States]."

By the end of the year, the lyrics had been printed in papers from
Maine to California and Louisiana to Oregon, only sometimes with the "Joe Bowers" tune recommended. One assumes that the alternative tunes ("Son of a Gamboleer" and "Yellow Rose of Texas") were applied by readers unaware of the proper one.

Had there been a hit parade in 1867, it looks like "I'm a Good Old Rebel" would have been on it.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 09:23 PM

Informative:

https://www.southerncultures.org/article/the-good-old-rebel-at-the-heart-of-the-radical-right/


Vance Randolph recorded 70-year-old Booth Campbell's somewhat unusual version at Cane Hill, Ark., in Feb., 1942. This is it, but it was Campbell's father who was a "Confederate veteran":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nixg7wwuG2Y

Campbell's tune reminds me of another that I can't quite place.

In 1901 a Union veteran from Kentucky had written to the National Tribune (Washington, D.C.) for the words to a Southern song that began, "I'm glad I'm a good old rebel, hat, coat, boots, and all" - just like Campbell's.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 01:11 PM

The tune I had in mind (I think) is part of "MacNamara's Band," by O'Connor & Stamford (1889).

Related is Fred Seaver's "Solomon Levi" (1885).

The tunes are similar to Campbell's but not identical.

Campbell's father was a Confederate veteran, but there's no guarantee that Campbell learned the song from him or even before 1889.

Subject: RE: Origins: Unreconstructed rebel/Good Old Rebel
From: cnd
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 09:57 AM

Though the lyrics to Booth Campbell's recording are (mostly) in the video, I couldn't immediately find them in text version, so I transcribed them from the above. I'll keep thinking on the tune, but that's always a weak point of mine, so no promises.

I'M GLAD I'M A GOOD OLD REBEL
(as recorded by Booth Campbell)

Oh, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
I won't care if I am
I won't be reconstructed
If I am may I be damned

Oh, I followed old Marse Roberts
For four years nearabout
Got wounded in three places
And I started at Camp Lookout

Oh, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
Hat, boots, coat, and all
I won't be reconstructed
No sir, not at all

I hate that Yankee nation
And all they say and do
I hate the Declaration
Of Independence, too

I hate that striped banner
With all its rare and fuss
Them lying, thieving Yankees
I hate 'em wuss and wuss

Oh, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
I don't care if I am
I won't be reconstructed
No sir, not a damn!

I can't take up my musket
And fight 'em any more
But I ain't a-going to love 'em
Now that am certain sure

Yes, I'm glad I'm a good old rebel
Hat, boots, coat, and all
I won't be reconstructed
No sir, not at all