Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: vectis
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:00 PM

At least the BBC have recognised that folk exists on Wednesday nights.

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 08:00 PM

I haven't been to the National for years, but I'll get there again eventually. Too broke this year, unfortunately. The main reason the young players are technically so advanced is that they started a lot younger than we did; many encouraged almost from birth by parents who were already involved in the music in one way or another. That's not to detract from their obvious abilities, but a lot of them did have an existing, supportive context to develop in that we had to do without.

For all that, I don't think that most of them have a greater maturity in their playing than do the singers; it's more that, with instrumental music, it's easier to mistake polished technique for understanding. Some of them will do very well indeed, but I hope they'll be the ones who have the patience to learn their craft without hurrying too much.

In one respect, at least, they're at a disadvantage; although they've attained a higher degree of polish in their playing at a much earlier age than did most of the previous generation, it's also the case that, a generation ago, it was possible to define a genuinely innovative style at quite a young age (Carthy and Jones both did it); they, however, will have to live in the shadow of their predecessors. Some will get around that by going for iconoclasm, but that's a road that only exceptionally talented (or exceptionally lucky) folk can get away with (and they won't be the ones Peter Paphides came up with!)

Tonight's broadcast only confirmed for me that, although young people are producing a lot of fine music at the moment, it really isn't significantly different from what was being done when I was their age; though they are doing it with greater technical skill than we were able to.

That's as it should be, perhaps; it's a pity, though, that so many journalists and similar media pontificators insist on pretending that it's all new and cutting-edge; they are perhaps too wedded to the commercially-generated "youth culture" that dominates certain other musical genres to be able to understand that traditional music is just that; although it changes with time, those changes are always provisional until they are rejected or assimilated. Anyone who says "such-and-such is the future" or, for that matter, "such-and-such is not the future" is over-reaching themselves.

I'd like to think, though, that the future will be based on a proper understanding of the past. The mid-20th century folk revival has thrown up a lot of things that are not yet part of a definable tradition; they may become so, but impatience or a desperate search for novelty or coolness won't decide that; only time will do it.

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: Ralphie
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 09:24 PM

Blimey!!
This has certainly woken you all up....and Jolly good job too.
Don't forget to register your comments (both pro and anti) to the Late Junction site at the Beeb.
No Comment...No more programmes. That simple.
I was at Maida Vale doing a band for Peelie, so haven't heard the show yet. I hope my mate recorded it for me. will find out on Friday.
Off to enjoy what's left of my birthday now. (NO..Don't start a bloody thread!!)
Thanks to all, for the interest shown in the programme.
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 07:38 AM

I apologise for having listed my comments on last night's broadcast in the other thread.... However, there was one question raised my good wife last night, which I find echoes here today:

If there is no Folk Police/Establishment, why is it a bad thing just to sing a song, without having paid some kind of apprenticeship?

I see above complaints about having to listen to some original before singing a song, about instant gratification culture, about heaven help students should they meet a real folk singer.....

As for the last point - come on! Sandra Kerr, Alistair Anderson and Karen Tweed teach these students. Not real folk singers/musicians? Must be a funny definition of "real".

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 08:25 AM



I don't think anyone is saying you have to, but its a very good idea to have spent time studying the roots and watching how others perform before you do so yourself, for the same reason as its a good idea to have learnt the basics of plumbing before you decide to replace the central heating boiler yourself.   No one says you can't leap straight in, but you'll probably do a better job with little more patient an approach.

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: GUEST,Eliza C
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:06 AM

DMcG,
Hear hear. Besides, it is very hard to define what the whole of the folk scene thinks, because there are so many opinions on the subject. I find that the majority of performers and audience care little how much anyone has studied, so I reckon it is OK to express the opinion that it is better to study, so everyone can think about it for a bit if they care to...
Also there is the idea that most folk music (trad music, anyway)is about continuity, and it can only enrich your understanding of the weight of experience behind the material and the old performers if you listen to all the generations available to you, including your own. Of course you don't have to.
cheers,
ec

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 10:19 AM

Studying the material is a wonderful thing to do in itself, there are so many layers and they go back to the year dot. I get a bottle of gin most years and put it in a jar with some brown sugar, and bung in berries of all kinds as and when they are in season. Then at Christmas you drink this gorgeous reddy-purple nectar, and every mouthful has your whole diary of the summer in it. You dont get that in an ordinary drink. That's what folk-songs and tunes are like, theyve got all that stuff put into them, and it's all there for you when you play it.
EC: I want to talk Kurds with you, would you get in touch if you have a minute(and I have a couple of good tunes for you too). My email is boatband(at)cwctv.net

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: Sooz
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 01:38 PM

Why did they call the programme "A place called England"? I didn't hear all of it as I was out hearing live music at a gig, but I don't suppose they played Maggie Holland's excellent song with the same title. Oops - its a contemporary song (shock horror) but likely to be part of tomorrows tradition. Evolution can't just stop!

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:02 PM

They played quite a bit of contemporary material; some relevant, some not. Maggie Holland's song was included, of course, sung by June Tabor if I remember correctly. Essentially, it was a discussion of tradition, so it wouldn't have been very useful to have included too many modern songs that may or may not become part of a tradition at some unknown point in the future. On the whole, the parts where people speculated about possible future developments were the least successful, I thought.

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: Sooz
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 04:13 PM

I stand corrected - I did record the programme so I'll listen to the rest now.

Subject: RE: Folk Music on BBC Radio 3 Now
From: Santa
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 04:57 PM

DMcG: I agree with you and Eliza entirely, except for the one point - fairly clearly some (only some) people are saying that you do HAVE to - and it is nothing to do with learning to perform per se. Criticism was expressed of someone (implicitly young? newcomer, anyway) hearing a traditional folk song and getting up and singing it themselves without having studied how the traditional folk singers sang it. No, I don't have the programme recorded to pick the bones over, and don't want to make too big a thing of a small piece of the whole - but reread Malcolm and Greg's postings above.

I thought one of Martin Carthy's comments went right to the heart of the matter - that it doesn't matter what people do to the songs, because the songs were still there and couldn't be damaged. So let people come to the songs and sing them - they can discover the joys of the history afterwards.