BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:24 AM

However the fact you all attack the messenger suggests his message is not only accurate but hits the places others cannot reach.


https://leveson.sayit.mysociety.org/hearing-8-february-2012/mr-paul-staines

A response to the Leveson enquiry:
Something that I think you might have overlooked is that I'm a citizen of a free republic, and since 1922 I don't have to pay attention to what a British judge orders my countrymen to do.


Mr Barr

And at times when you are breaking big news stories, what sort of visitor rates do you attract then?
Mr Paul Staines

I think at the peak we were getting 100,000 an hour. In an average month, we would have certainly hundreds of thousands, maybe up to a million readers, or a million different browsers come to our website.
Mr Barr

You operate also on Twitter. How many followers do you have?
Mr Paul Staines

60,000-odd.


Do you think a million browsers a day come for a diet of horse shit?

Your argument is vacuous.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:25 AM

David W need to remember that this poster only ever posts ONLY THE USEFUL BITS after the awkward truths have been carefully removed
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 08:34 AM

Why on earth are you giving a link to an obscure blog that is linked to the following:
This entry was posted in Small States and tagged AfD, BNP, British National Party, Burka, burqa, citizenship, Front National, immigration, ius sanguinis, Nationale Aktion, Nationale Aktion gegen die Überfremdung von Volk und Heimat, naturalization, overforeignization, populism, right-wing, Schweizerische Volkspartei, SVP, Swiss People's Party, Switzerland, Trump, Überfremdung on February 5, 2017

All that is missing is a reference to Nazis and Jews.
Shameful behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:06 AM

Something that many of us commented on at the time was that the decision to leave the UK was founded on the voting of predominantly older people.

This has been borne out by a recent survey of the 2 million people eligible to vote now who were too young at the time. The survey shows that 74% of them would vote remain.

As Brexit will probably affect them far more, and at least far longer, than it will the aging population who voted for Brexit it would not seem unreasonable to have another vote.

Young voters

However I cannot see the Brexiteers being swayed by this.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:23 AM

"As Brexit will probably affect them far more, and at least far longer, than it will the aging population who voted for Brexit it would not seem unreasonable to have another vote."

And one free from the baleful, deceitful, criminal influence of one Arron Banks, preferably.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:25 AM

A blog from a right wing site to show that Switzerland is not as democratic as it seems "shameful behaviour - now we really are blowing for tugs (after your "paado" accusation efforts sank without trace)
Would you rather dismiss it as "left wing shite" as you usually do ?
As I said before - only the useful bits get through your trawling
nets
Weeren't you the feller passing around the "free poor, misjudged Tommy Robinson" petitions ?
You're a not particularly funny (and certainly not very bright) joke
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2019/304.html

In this claim for judicial review, the Applicants contend that the Respondent's decision to notify and the notification itself were unlawful because they were based upon the result of a referendum that was itself unlawful as a result of corrupt and illegal practices, notably offences of overspending committed by those involved in the campaign to leave the EU. Alternatively, it is said that the Respondent erred in law in not responding to the subsequent evidence of those practices as it emerged.

On 10 December 2018, following a full day's hearing, Ouseley J refused permission to proceed with the judicial review on the basis of both delay and want of merit, and ordered the Applicants to pay the Respondent's costs summarily assessed in the sum of £17,256.

The Applicants applied for permission to appeal that Order. That application came before this court on 21 February 2019 when, after hearing substantial argument, we indicated that we would refuse permission to appeal on all grounds and would give our reasons at a later date. In this judgment, I set out my reasons for that refusal.

with any luck it cost them loadsamoney!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:30 PM

Arw you really threatening me on Guido's behalf ?
Bring it on
Thought you might have been one of his employees

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 02:01 PM

I wonder if either of our two Brexiteers have anything to say about the 2 million potential new voters if there were to be a second vote.

I also wonder what our two Brexiteers have to say about the numerous Insurance, Banking and Finance organisations programming some of their affairs to leave the UK.

I know I have asked this question many times, as yet I have not had a response.

....................???

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 02:49 PM

Of course there is good news about brexit, Raggy. Come March 29, or maybe April 1, there will be a return to cricket on the village green, hot summers and snowy winters. There will be lashings of ginger beer, girls in gingham dresses, boys will call us sir and Johnny Foreigner will know his place. There will be no need for froggy cheese, kraut sausage or eyetye plonk as warm beer, mash and spotted dick will, once again, rule the waves.

What could possibly go wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM

I quite like warm beer, mash and spotted Dick ..............

However I am half way through a bottle of Chateau Neuf du Pape !!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:25 PM

Come March 29, or maybe April 1,
You have made the same slip up, Dave, that I did a while back and leapt from the 29th (30th in Brussels time) to the 1st April, omitting the 31st. But let's not draw attention to it - someone might notice...

Of course, the 1st April as all fool's day may have swayed us.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:26 PM

"Come March 29, or maybe April 1, there will be a return to cricket on the village green,"
Did you not hear about the plans to enclose all village greens in order to pay another bung to the DUP !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 03:34 PM

We'll not need to pay bungs, Jim. Once we return to our rightful place in the world everyone will just do as we say. We never had to pay bungs before we joined the common market.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 04:31 PM

An observation.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming.

Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

Backward man you are a tad behind the curve.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 05:40 PM

No interaction at all, Steve. You know it makes sense :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:46 PM

I wasn't interacting, Dave. I was making a purely objective, in this case eyebrow-raising, observation. Whoever it was who posted those two posts, I didnt interact, merely observe. It would be good to think that the mods also observe. But who knows.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 07:59 PM

"No interaction at all, Steve. You know it makes sense :-)"
Spoilsport
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mossback
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 09:24 PM

It would be good to think that the mods also observe.

Holmes to Watson: "You see, but you do not observe."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:01 AM

According to the Guardian today:

The prime minister pledged in parliament to put her deal to the Commons on Tuesday but she is being urged by senior Conservative MPs to pull the vote if she fails to secure significant concessions from Brussels.
Leading Tories have warned Downing Street it could face a three-figure defeat similar to the historic 230-vote loss in January if the government goes ahead.
They have advised her instead to replace the vote with a motion setting out the kind of Brexit deal that would be acceptable to Tory MPs to keep the party together and put pressure on Brussels.

======

You have to admit she has form in pulling votes. I have been dubious of the Labour idea that they will drop the Kyle amendment from Tuesday, and bring it in later, perhaps on Wednesday or Thursday. The risk of that approach is she could hold Tuesdays vote then pull the others. I wonder if these 'senior Tories' genuinely believe the EU will respond to such "pressure" or if is no more than a technique to reach the 29th so we drop out automatically.

I don't think she will pull Tuesday vote. I think it quite possible what she says immediately afterwards will show she will continue to push for her deal while doing her best to block any alternative.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 03:58 AM

I didn't slip up btw, DMcG. March 29th is a Friday. Everyone knows that before those upstart Europeans started to dictate what their betters should do, weekends were sacrosanct and nothing got done. As March 30 and 31 will be spent watching football and going to church, April the first will be the first proper day of our glorious past re-invented. And very apt it is :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:19 AM


I didn't slip up btw, DMcG.

That's fine. I did, though!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 04:31 AM

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:11 AM

Hunt on TV this morning, and the revolting Mark Francois (surprised he hasn't changed his name), all the other tory MPs, to them all thats important is keeping the tory party intact. Far more important than the welfare of the people of the country. Not one of them is making the case that the people will be better off out of the EU. They can't because they know it's not true. But to them we are simply collateral damage, sacrificed in the interests of the tory party. If they had any decency they would be working for a compromise, such as Corbyn's customs union proposal.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:24 AM

Here is a fairly old clip of my MP, Royston Smith. In the first minute or so he lists why he voted to leave.

What is striking it that the reasons are all about him: not once does he say it is in the countries best interests. The closest he gets is saying he thinks that the country can stand on its own two feet. Sure it can, but that does not mean it will be as tall as it was!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:43 AM

Brexiters fall into two camps, the extremely selfish such as those who have hedged against the UK economy, and the utterly deluded, who were taken in by the lies on the side of a bus.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:00 AM

Leavers fall into two camps, the stupid and the dangerously stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Stanron
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:01 AM

Or should that be remainers?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:11 AM

I think that there are some leavers who are not stupid or dangerously stupid, but just dangerous, because they see brexit as an opportunity for personal financial gain at the expense of the rest of us. Such as hedge fund managers shorting the British economy.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Raggytash
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 06:36 AM

Stanron, all the others Brexiteers have refused repeatedly to respond to any of my questions regarding if the UK will be as well off, if not better off, post Brexit.

Almost every report from every source to date has been negative. The Banking, Insurance and Finance Industries are setting up offices overseas, the car industry is in disarray, multiply other industries are moving at least some of their operations into the Eurozone and even arch Brexiteer Rees Mogg has opened on office of his Somerset Investment company in Dublin.

So tell me how is the UK going to benefit from Brexit.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 07:44 AM

Well, one of them repeatedly says "we are leaving on 29th March" when asked. That is possible but hardly certain, so I wonder what replaces that non-answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 08:20 AM

I am waiting for May to
make a gaurantee that if EU 27 denies fredom of movement to a single UK national that this will be treated as a major diplomatic incident. If not then May, and everyone who voted for her party is a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 11 Mar 19 - 05:25 PM

If the French suggestion works for Calais, why not for Ireland?

As any self-respecting Brexit pundit will be more than happy to remind us, smart borders featuring mythological things like remote customs declarations and automated number plate checking are simply “unicorns” which aren’t likely to be possible for hundreds, if not thousands of years. They certainly won’t be suitable for any post-Brexit border crossings…

Which is why French Customs have just unveiled a “smart border” – an “innovative technological solution” which will be implemented on 29 March 2019 “at all points of entry/exit to/from the Calais region and at border points from Channel-North Sea to maintain smooth circulation of your goods.”

From Guido of course

https://order-order.com/2019/03/11/france-unveils-technological-smart-border-solution/

and for the nonbelievers, some french unicorns below!

http://www.douane.gouv.fr/articles/a16171-the-smart-border

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 02:38 AM

If the French suggestion works for Calais, why not for Ireland?

You mean apart from the fact a port is completely different in scale to a 499km border, that all the French system achieves is to separate the traffic into red and green channels where the red have to be checked, that building such infrastructure as the channels is expressly prohibited by the withdrawal agreement and that the police of Ireland have expressed serious security concerns about any attempt to have such infrastructure? Give me a minute and I will think of something.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:47 AM

Good news about brexit. We dodge the biometric ID cards.



http://www.statewatch.org/news/2019/feb/eu-frontex-visas-ilos-id-cards.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 09:49 AM

I know there's nothing even remotely amusing about all this, but I loved this one, from a Comments section under a Guardian article:

"By the way, if anyone is under the misapprehension that Trump is going to help Britain with a favorable trade deal after Brexit, they've got another thing coming. When the wolf sees a lamb straying from the herd, he's not going to channel his inner Border Collie. He sees dinner."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:09 AM

he's not going to channel his inner Border Collie. He sees dinner."

I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life. Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:15 AM

Another amusing exchange from the same Comments section:

"The backstop needs to be well oiled, greased, lathered with WD40 and shoved well and truly up ERG arses, that should shut them up for a while."

"Really? Do we have to pre-lube the thing?"

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:26 AM

An observation worth repeating and further reinforcing.

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:15 PM

"Now you have clarified who you were insulting, you may perhaps find a reckoning in a more public forum forthcoming."

Eleven minutes later from the same poster:

From: Iains - PM
Date: 10 Mar 19 - 12:26 PM

"Backward man you are a tad behind the curve."

And then:

"Not only besandled and besotted but also oblivious"

And just now:

"I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life. Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little."

By the way, folks, if you can read this thank a teacher.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:42 AM

Please don't feed the animals Steve - they'll only come back for more :->
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 10:59 AM

"I fink you mean fox dear boy. Having your sheepdogs feast on lamb is a proven unsuccessful business model. But finance is hardly your strong point, having suckled on the public teat all your life. Twould seem for all your years in the countryside you have learnt precious little."

And I think, silly boy, you completely misunderstood Steve's post. Not 'arf as clever as you try to pretend you are, are you?

Stick to quoting 'Semen' Staines - that's about your level.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 12:12 PM

Indeed he did. I know a few people in real life who you can't have a proper conversation with because they're not listening to you. Instead, they're thinking of the next "clever" thing to say. It's not very grown-up, is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 12:17 PM

> people in real life who you can't have a proper conversation with because they're not listening

Like the current PM. And I think the consequences are just about to rear up and bite her on the butt.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 01:02 PM

Hopefully!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:00 PM

Well, I see she has blown it again. Will no one rid us of this turbulent pest?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:14 PM

In answer to May's speech saying she would be holding the votes on Wednesday and Thursday, Corbyn said he would be bringing the previously rejected Labour version of Brexit back to the house. Even if the house were to accept it, which is very doubtful, the question arises whether the EU will be prepared to enter another long period of negotiation. As I have said before, I don't find red unicorns any more believable than blue ones. There are things in the Labour proposal that will be as objectionable to the EU as the ones from the Tories.

I think the probability is we will need more than this lets-talk-about-something-else approach to stop a no deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:21 PM

She's not bloody giving in. That's for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:36 PM

So, does this latest vote mean Remain? I am unclear.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit #3: A futile gesture?
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Mar 19 - 03:44 PM

So, does this latest vote mean Remain? I am unclear.

No, nor do the votes tomorrow or the day after mean remain. It is, perhaps, a step in that direction, but equally it could be a step towards the no-deal brink if Parliament fritters away the few days left on irrelevancies or agreeing things that the EU cannot.