BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:49 PM

Among Tolkien scholars, there is a lot of speculation about Tom Bombadil. He and Goldberry are the "odd characters out." They only appear at one point in the story and take no part other than to save the travelers from a couple of bad situations and help them on their way. Yet they are such delightful characters and so finely-drawn that they seem to leave a profound effect on most readers. Ask people to "name your favorite characters in Lord of the Rings," and early in many people's lists, the name of Tom Bombadil appears. Many literary critics analysing LotR say that Tom Bombadil represents Nature. Kind, helpful, happy, aloof, he is essentially immune to what hobbits, wizards, humans, and evil forces do.

Judging from looking at the website and the cast list, apparently Tom Bombadil didn't make it into the movie. He doesn't actually further the narrative, and since they undoubtedly had to cut a lot, I guess they figured he wasn't really essential to the plot. I can understand their reasoning, but it is unfortunate. Tom Bombadil and Goldberry are fascinating characters and a sort of oasis of calm and safety in the Fellowship's dangerous quest.

One can find symbolism in practically anything, and I'd be surprised if Tolkien didn't have a lot of symbolism in mind, but I personally take LotR as what it appears to be: a marvelous epic adventure story. Gandalf? Yeah, I can see that. But to me, since Frodo agrees to take the burden of the Ring on himself, he is the most obvious Christ figure.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 12:54 PM

I think the symbolism is what bothers me most......way too much clanging.

Seriously, was there ANY piece of "IN" reading back in the 60's that wasn't just et up with symbolism? I remember discussing "Lord of the Flies" about 4139 times during the decade. Maybe it was just a good peeriod for "Lord" stuff....Ring, Flies, Jim................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:11 PM

I think the most God-like character in L.O.T.R. is Gollum. He gets invisible when he chooses. The Christ-like guy is Frodo. He takes over and finds out how to do that too.

MAGIC is nothing more than a group of people having the knowledge and the will and the knowhow to do things that others are ignorant of. DOCTORS in our society are the closer to practitioners of magic than anyone else. Nobody knows how to do the things they can do regularly---after having spent YEARS learning those SECRETS in medical school. Having had several spinal surgeries allowed me to see some of that MAGIC in person when the neurosurgeons on the same floor I was on aimed their lasers THROUGH THE SKULL of someone with a brain tumor. The place INSIDE THAT SKULL where the lasers focused and met and is where the tumor would be blasted into smithereens while making NO ACTUAL INCISION AT ALL. In the old days, somebody who could do those kinds of things, seemingly magical things, was burned at the stake as a witch.

Folks, the ladies of old had the erb lore knowledge to do medicinal things that seemed magical. They were killed off by those who saw bad stuff in that knowledge---people who who had no understanding or tolerance of some pretty amazing and beneficial things.

That's what people now-a-days who are scared out of their wits by lovely fairy tales are doing when they perpetuate those old narrow attitudes and the fears of fear itself.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 01:59 PM

"A sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." -- Arthur C. Clarke.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Mark Clark
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:00 PM

Until I saw this thread, it had never occurred to me that “Lord of the Rings” had any deep symbolic meaning. I regarded as a great story and perhaps one of the most intricate and complete mythologies to have been created—certainly by a single intelect. Consider that Tolkien not only created the characters and the plot, he also created more or less complete histories for all the various peoples, languages for each of the peoples and poetry in most of the invented languages.

The idea that Tolkien's work could be offensive to some religious viewpoint had never crossed my mind. It still seems incredible as I think about it now. But, as I try always to be ready to consider new viewpoints, I'm doing my best with this one.

I'm sure sorry to hear that Bombadil was deleted. I think his inclusion is necessary for a full understanding of the forces driving the characters and the nature of Middle Earth itself.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:03 PM

I'm not really sure, Mark. I just wasn't able to find Tom Bombadil in the cast list.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 02:16 PM

Uh-oh! I just put "movie" and "Tom Bombadil" in google.com's Advanced Search and came up with this. I did a quick check on a couple of the links and it looks like a pretty interesting site for LotR buffs (I'm be there for awhile).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: GUEST,Merlin
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 03:25 PM

How can either Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter be offensive? In Harry Potter, he is saved by the love of his parents, and his friends. In Lord of the Rings, the bad guys, Sauron and the Ringwraiths, are pure evil, and get their butts kicked. The Elves are pure good. The good guys are willing to sacrifice everything they care about to destroy this evil. How can this be offensive to people who call themselves Christian, a religion which is supposed to value love and goodness (in my experiance)?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Hippie Chick
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 03:46 PM

I love the Harry Potter books. It is a great fantasy series and both is imaginative of itself and promotes use of imagination in readers. I am also a Christian, and I have no problems with it. I love the Narnia series, the Wizard of Oz, the Xanth series, The Mists of Avalon, etc. People who are concerned about evil need to lighten up on literature and start looking at a culture and society which sells our jobs overseas and perverts the election process, and......you see where I'm standing,

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 04:28 PM

Don Firth, I think I agree with you. When I was reflecting upon who Tom Bombadil might represent in older mythologies (if anyone), I thought of the Green Man and Pan.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 06:37 PM

The ents are Green Men personified. What about Sir Gawain and the Green Knight?? (And The Clay People in the Buster Crabbe version of Flash Gordon??? And Ming the Merciless?? Hitler maybe? And Thun, king of the Lion Men? and Voltan the fat king with wings and the rest from the Sky City???) This could go on and on... God, Jehovah, and all the other hundreds if not thousands of Masks Of gods (or masks of God)...?

Art

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 06:47 PM

Come to that, I've always been a bit suspicious of Kermit the Frog.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:06 PM

It's not easy being green

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:11 PM

You missed out Father Christmas, Art. (He always used to wear green till the Coca Cola moved in on him. Check withthe Christmas Carol.)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:17 PM

Pan must be Coyote.

Art ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Lord of Rings offensive to fundament. too
From: Art Thieme
Date: 02 Dec 01 - 07:20 PM

And in the spanish speaking world, Pan = bread.

In the hip world bread = money.

Art