Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:22 AM

Indeed. So when people give you the reasons why something happened, over and over again, why do you never listen to them? Joe's been telling you the score for two years now. I've been trying to apply logic to that you state as your arguments. You don't listen, you just ignore them and post again without varying your original argument.

Perhaps Graham - you would be the one to provide the answer to your own question?

For I have answered your question - but you would appear to wish to ignore this answer. This looks less like you applying logic than applying a hypocritcal double standard. To enable you to continue the witch-hunt of a fellow poster that you have been permitted and encouraged by the Chief of the Mudcat Editng Team to start, and which a few others are only too willing to join in with.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:28 AM

" the witch-hunt of a fellow poster"

You say witch-hunt as if it's unjustified.... You MAKE it justified

You are not MY 'fellow' poster..... If you were, you would have done the forum a favour and bogged off a LONG time ago

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:34 AM

Roger,

I thought you had suggested this thread.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:36 AM

STOP ANSWERING HIM!!!!!

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

My first, and last post to this thread. There are many cruel and unusual ways to die, but being bored to death is not one of my favorites. Bye.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

There is nothing noble about this.....

Truest observation you have ever made, Roger-me-lad.


A

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 11:55 AM

Problem is Amos... "Shambles" doesn't realize that HE'S the ignoble one....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:15 PM

Ignoble. That means a a person with pea size balls and a tiny dick doesn't it?   I mean, if so, that'd be Shambles for sure.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Grab
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:22 PM

I'm sorry you feel this is a witch-hunt. On the other thread, a poster called "The Shambles" specifically asked for a separate thread to be created to discuss this. Was that not you?

For I have answered your question - but you would appear to wish to ignore this answer.

Have you? You've replied to the one question which is stated twice in my very first post on this thread, namely "why are you still here?"

If you think you have, then fair enough. I summarised your rather vague answer earlier as "you'll stay here, complaining incessantly, until Max has finally had enough and you're banned", and you've not objected to that summary. OK - that's what I started this thread to find out. I did try asking why, but I guess when someone deliberately sets out to cause people trouble, their motivation is not the major concern.

Given that this is your stated objective, I'll quit trying to reason with you. And roll on that ban...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:50 PM

because you think you're being victimised, which is possible but I can assure you is not the case

On what informed basis do you make such an assurance to me and our forum?

Is it because the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team - who has just announced his latest posting restictions which only apply to me - has said that all this special treatment, is not personal?

I think that the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team must have subjected my contributions to just about every form of imposed censorship. Ranging from countless numbers of closed threads to 'silent deletion' to the latest bag-of-tricks he has announced which apply only to me.

I have been publicly and privatly threatened by the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing team - who has set the example that the public posting of calling me names like Buffoon, Idiot, Asshole, Looney etc is acceptable. And has encouraged other posters to join in with these abusive persoanal attacks.

Is this how someone said to be in charge of a team of 'moderators' is supposed to act? If they do could they and still expect our forum to consider their imposed judgement of the individual they are abusing to be fair and impartial?   

Why?

Unlike many other posters who are free from any sanction - I don't post offensive language. I have never posted an abusive personal attack or ever responded in kind to the many that I have been subjected to and not protected from. Yet such a hysterical witch-hunt is currently under way that many posters - new to all this - must feel that there is justification for The Shambles to be considered is the worst of all possible posters - and on whose inevitable expulsion - all problems will be solved.

I don't consider that I am. Most of what I am accused of is simply a reaction against what are clearly personally motivated attempts to use and justify all forms of imposed censorship action and restrictions - simply to and try and prevent me from posting my views and to discredit them.

I feel that the true nature and level of imposed censorship is not known by our forum - especially by many who currently support it. I feel that if they were aware - they may not support this and the current nature and level may reduce.

I am aware that this may sound totally paranoid. But the supporting evidence is all on our forum. No one has to like me or even agree with my views - but they could just help to try and ensure that everyone on our forum gets a 'fair shake'.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:51 PM

Keep posting Shambles. I enjoy watching the chaos that Max has created with his unwillingess to take responsibility for making modifications which would eliminate these discussions.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 12:58 PM

"such a hysterical witch-hunt"
Again, you say witch-hunt as if you haven't made it justified.....

"has encouraged other posters to join in"
When the whole world calls you an asshole... they're probably right

"fair and impartial"
Who ever said this place was either??? Cause it isn't.... never was... never will be.... It's a WOMBAT to even try

"prevent me from posting my views and to discredit them"
No one has to discredit you... you do enough of that all on your own

"I feel that if they were aware"
We're ALL aware.... WE don't care....

"everyone on our forum gets a 'fair shake"
Not everyone deserves one.... If you want to be treated fairly, behave in a manner that warrants it

(Holy crap.... from ME, no less!!! )

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:01 PM

"Max has created with his unwillingess"

Unwilling? or unable?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:03 PM

Who is impersonating Clinton? First he uses the term 'ignoble' - instead of his more usual scatological choices; now he is presenting a logical rational argument for politeness.

WHERE's CLINTON AND WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HIM?!?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:04 PM

I just like keeping you on your toes MMario

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:09 PM

Watch it Mario.....IF CH has you on your toes, he's probably jacking you up! (;<))

Nice arguments there CH but Sham IS really a mental case so it's hopeless......but you knew that already.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:11 PM

Keep posting Shambles. I enjoy watching the chaos that Max has created with his unwillingess to take responsibility for making modifications which would eliminate these discussions.

You mean like ending ALL discussion - by closing down our discussion forum?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:15 PM

There's part of the root of your failure Shambles...

This isn't OUR discussion forum.... it's Max's.....

He's grand high pooh-baah here.... what he says, goes.... and he doesn't have to explain himself to anyone for anything....

Like it or lump it

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:16 PM

WOW....What a great oppotunity for YOU Shambolina!!! Go off and start your own!!!   I guarantee that none of us will show up!!!

You'll be happy then won't you?   Or perhaps not? Bitching is soooo much more fun you say?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:17 PM

Well, yes, Shambles, I did refer to you as a buffoon.

I believe I said that if you act like an asshole, you'll be treated like an asshole. Is that calling somebody an asshole, or is that a "if the the shoe fits" situation? Same with loonies and idiots. If the shoe fits...

And yes, I threatened you - with deletion of your duplicate posts, not with bodily harm.

It wouldn't do to call Shambles a liar, but maybe one could say he plays peek-a-boo with the truth. He frequently makes mention of the "closure of the Affected by the Licensing Act 2003 thread." What he fails to mention is that the thread was reopened, honoring his request. The thread was closed because there was a more recent thread on the subject with almost the same title, and having two threads caused confusion. The second thread was a failed attempt, and didn't generate any discussion. Shambles requested that the first thread be reopened, and I reopened it and merged the one-message second thread with the first one.

Later on, Shambles posted a number of complaint messages about Mudcat editing in the Licensing Act thread. I moved those messages to another thread so that the Licensing Act discussion could continue unimpeded by squabbles about Mudcat editing. The Licensing Act thread remains open.

Now, THAT's the truth.

-Joe Offer, who has been a Mudcat editor since 1997-

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:19 PM

" I guarantee that none of us will show up!!!"

Oh -I- would... and I'd spam his message board right back to the frigg'n stone age... just like he's doing here

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:21 PM

But CH, Shmabolina would allow all of that and more. You could post ANYTHING and nothing would be done about it as that would be censorship.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:22 PM

I'd post crap that'd turn Shamb white.... and make his head spin....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:27 PM

You already do Clinton, every goddammed day!

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:36 PM

some pots & kettles working here, it seems.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:37 PM

I get the idea his head spins, regardless of external input

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:46 PM

Your just as guilty of keeping these inane discussions going BillD. I think you men need a new hobby. Frankly, I think you all have ruined mudcat with your stupidity. I'd like to see the lot of you go.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 01:55 PM

*wry grin*....Yep, I'm kinda guilty. I sometimes reply, not so much directly to Shambles, but to leave contrary viewpoints out for 'concerned passersby' such as YOU, my dear....just in case you needed something to do.

I've been here almost 10 years, and am not about to leave...how about you?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:07 PM

Anybody who posts to these threads is guilty of keeping them going, even if it's just to criticize other people who post to these threads. Also those who contribute by pointing out that people who criticize others for contributing are themselves contributing.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:13 PM

That includes you too Jeri. You just criticized others.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:18 PM

oh.oh. naughty jeri! you are guilty and now the anonymous jury has condemned you! enjoy the lobster this weekend.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:20 PM

"Great fleas have smaller fleas
Upon their backs to bite 'em.
And these in turn have smaller still-
An so, ad infinitum."

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:26 PM

No wonder Mudcat is so highly regarded in the folkie community on the internet.....

oh... wait.... that's right.......

nevermind

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:42 PM

MMario, I knew I'd catch somebody with poor reading comprehension skills. I just didn't think it would happen so quickly.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:44 PM

The thread was closed because there was a more recent thread on the subject with almost the same title, and having two threads caused confusion.

Is the possibilty of confusion like this, really grounds to impose censorship? I suggest that such drastic action is not proportionate to the problem (if having more than one thread on similar subjects is really to be considered a problem at all). It may well be generally judged desirable only to have one thread on each subject - automatic imposition as the means by which this end is achieved, may not always be judged quite so desirable.

Regular contributors to this long-running thread (containing much useful information on the Licensing/PEL issue) were fully honouring the past requests made for this subject to be confined to as few threads as possible. But despite being fully aware of these efforts (mainly made in an attempt to keep him happy) - the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team, without consulting any of the thread's originators or providing any explanation - and despite there being no cause to rush into anything - decided that the thread that I orginated must be subject to immediate imposed closure.

By using a bit of style - instead of using the same old blunt tool of imposition at the slightest excuse - exactly the same end could have been acheived without imposing closure on any thread. There would then, have been no question of any personally motivated censorship - because no imposed censorship would have been imposed.

It was pretty obvious that the new thread was started because the poster did not understand how the forum works. They were unaware that they did not have to load the whole thread - and waiting for it to load was the only reason they started a new thread. Time could have been taken to PM this thread's originator to explain all of this and I am sure that had this been explained - they would have had no objection if the suggestion to combine it with the original thread was made.

Instead of this - the originator of the new thread was upset when their thread was later removed and combined and the originator of the original thread was forced to ask the Chief of of the Mudcat Editing Team if he would so kind as to re-open the long-running thread. This, I think was the first request that the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has ever agreed to. Possibly explained by the fact that he may not have (then) been aware that it was me making the request (on the Help forum).

Some posters may not judge this imposition to have been personally motivated but some may consider that there may be some question that this may well have played a part. But more may judge this imposition to have been possibly more than a little heavy-handed?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:51 PM

"But more may judge this imposition to have been possibly more than a little heavy-handed?"

nope.... only you.....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 02:52 PM

Roger - it is not censorship if the content is still there. Nor is removal of content from a private site censorship. it is the right of the owner of the site. Nor would the immediate deletion of anything you posted be censorship. Nor would preventing you from posting.

Now if someone were deleting words of your post PRIOR to their arrival at the site - that would be censorship. Or if selected portions were prevented from being posted. but if your words are there and capable of being deleted - then you have been able to express your opinion and have not been censored.

not that censorship applies to a private location anyway.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:09 PM

Roger - it is not censorship if the content is still there.

MMario - I think we would possibly both agree that it is certainly NOT censorship (or imposition) - if the poster's permission is first sought and given to any proposed action? Rather than it coming as a complete surprise to them.

It is certainly a more stylish method of obtaining the same result. Sadly it has never proved to be the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's perferred method.

Perhaps as this method - by the current Chief of the Mudcat editing Team's own admission, has not suuceeded in imposing the peace he requires and is proving somewhat counter-productive - it is time for a new Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team and a more stylish method?

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:12 PM

Why are you still arguing with him? No one will convince him that he is wrong! Ignore him and he has no reason to continue posting.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:13 PM

in regards to your last - that's Max's decision - no one else's.

As far as imposition - Max reserves the right to edit, delete, etc any posting to this forum. By posting you are agreeing to those terms, as indeed you are agreeing to those terms when you post to ANY private site. Therefore, unless you are a complete and utter imbicile, any editing or deletion should be no surprise. NOR is the posters permission or notification either desirable or needed.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:16 PM

"unless you are a complete and utter imbicile"

And there's the rub.....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:18 PM

" Ignore him and he has no reason to continue posting."

wrong....he refreshes old threads when he is ignored. He even link to them if they have been closed.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: number 6
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:23 PM

Interesting ... this thread is one of the most popular ongoing threads in the BS these days.

sIx

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:24 PM

If Mudcat had a "Last Post By" column (As seen on 98% of message boards) on the main forum page, Shambles would be EASY to ignore....

As it is, one must open the thread before you know who started it, and by then, I suspect a lot of folks feel, if they've gone that far, they may as well post a response......

So, the skite goes on.... the crap piles up, and mudcat stinks up the internet.....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:26 PM

As far as imposition - Max reserves the right to edit, delete, etc any posting to this forum. By posting you are agreeing to those terms, as indeed you are agreeing to those terms when you post to ANY private site. Therefore, unless you are a complete and utter imbicile, any editing or deletion should be no surprise. NOR is the posters permission or notification either desirable or needed.

Perhaps you may agree that this 'like it or lump it' attitude you spell-out here - had it been the original approach when our forum first started - would have resulted in many good posters deciding to 'lump it' long ago and long before many now appear to have done?   

This was once a forum that openly encouraged all forms of contributor and all forms of contributions. It now appears to be moving towards one that is obsessed with secrecy and with finding ways to judge the worth of contributors and of preventing contributions.

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:44 PM

"This was once a forum that openly encouraged all forms of contributor and all forms of contributions."

This forum has ALWAYS had rules, and posters have ALWAYS been expected to follow those rules.....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:45 PM

Well, yes, Shambles, I did refer to you as a buffoon.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: BS: Do you need to be censored?
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 12:43 PM

Hmmmm.
Name-calling?
As far as I can recall, the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team is generally quite careful not to directly refer to anybody by a name.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Music posts by Guests to be reviewed.(2)
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 01:35 AM
>snip<
Why should anybody bother with you, Roger? You're just a self-centered, puffed-up buffoon who has made a mockery out of himself. I wish it were otherwise, but you're really a sad case.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:49 PM

Think maybe Shambles 'methods' will work, back on him?


This forum has ALWAYS had rules, and posters have ALWAYS been expected to follow those rules.....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 03:49 PM

"This was once a forum that openly encouraged all forms of contributor and all forms of contributions."

This forum has ALWAYS had rules, and posters have ALWAYS been expected to follow those rules.....

Subject: RE: Complaints about editing: Still here? and why?
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 06 - 04:13 PM

the "attitude" I spelled out has existed as long as the forum has existed.

that you may have been ignorant of the fact is not my fault, nor Joe's, nor Max's.