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fRoots magazine and folk clubs
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 12:02 PM Re-read first post. Especially last line. Ah. Hits forehead again. Do you mean we've got the T.B. Blues? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 12:09 PM You mean these three and a half lines? "BTW, I'm not grinding my own axe- I've retired from the circuit for now owing to pressures of work. But there are some astoundingly good new performers around, and it's a pity that the one national magazine in the UK chooses to ignore them." I,m awaiting the fRoots hordes to come thundering in to defend Fortress Anderson against The Paranoids (sounds like a Dr. Who alien) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 May 09 - 12:33 PM "Absolutely agree with you Vic" Sadly Lizzie, if your postings actually equated with your statement, I suspect that Vic wouldn't have felt the need to make the comments that he did. <<<< Irene, you've been telling me orf for years. Please...do put a folkie sock in it, there's a good girl. Yeesh! It's great, seeing the dawning of the day begin to rise in the eyes of the innocent... :0) I told you, Ian loves it all, bad news, good news, he laps it up. He's a very mischievious little munchkin on the quiet, with a good sense of humour...and....an OFF button. LOL |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: irishenglish Date: 14 May 09 - 02:23 PM Ah another contentious thread on Mudcat. I agree with the wise words of one Judy Dyble, without reviewing every word in this thread, fRoots has carried on reviewing musical forms and artists that are, by and large, thrown into that great pile of "other" music in most record stores. I have been impressed by the evolution of the magazine, since I first started looking at it here in the U.S. in the early 90's. I don't always agree with their assesment of the next big thing, or certain reviews, or quite frankly some of his editorials. I DO however appreciate that we have a magazine that covers those "other" forms of music in a nice package, and looks great. I am a fan of much roots music, on a global scale. fRoots is the best choice in magazine for me therefore, as others have suggested, there are other choices for a more British Isles-centric music magazine. Given a choice between SOnglines, Global Rhythm and fRoots, I'll take fRoots every time. And much like NOrman D, I have no affiliation with any magazine. The one thing that used to irk me about fRoots is the abundance of pics, and inclusion of 20 year old tracks on some of the freebie cd's of Mr. Anderson's various bands over the years! Play nice people, its just a magazine-not the fucking bible! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Joe Offer Date: 14 May 09 - 02:33 PM I'd like to repeat my previous comments about UK folkies eating their young. Do you folks ever get together and enjoy each other's music, or do you just get together to brawl? Lighten up, people. Try to act like you're civilized and intelligent. Or is it true that the "British Folk Scene" is just a bunch of loonies? I'm not going to try to figure out who's right and who's wrong in a situation like this. All I know is that this thread, like so many others, is beyond what one would consider to be civil discussion. I just can't figure out what to do about this endless British squabbling. I get all sorts of complaints about so-and-so being Evil and Deceitful, but it looks to me like you're ALL evil and deceitful. Maybe I should just shut down every thread that shows the slightest hint of animosity, and maybe then people would learn to discuss things in a civil manner. If you have suggestions, contact me by personal message. I'm not going to close this thread - yet. If you wish to discuss fRoots Magazine and folk clubs, do so - but do it civilly. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 14 May 09 - 02:44 PM Joe, nothing on this thread bears the slightest resemblance to anything that happens on the "British Folk Scene". Just off to see Kevin and Ellen Mitchell at The Royal Oak. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Joe Offer Date: 14 May 09 - 03:00 PM
-Joe- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 14 May 09 - 03:00 PM Joe, just be thankful that we don't all carry guns. Honestly, this is a much more civilised way to behave - hardly anyone gets killed (I'm here as living testament to that) :0 |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Banjiman Date: 14 May 09 - 03:02 PM Do you know, I don't think I've ever seen an argument anywhere in the British Folk Scene..... except on discussion forums. I'm not sure what this means but there you go. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 14 May 09 - 03:08 PM This thread lost its way and should have been shut down the moment the gratuitous attacks began plus the link to a website where similar personal attacks took place (are still taking place?) Evil and Deceitful is wee bit strong I think, but it is indicative of the spitefulness of some toward others and my reading material includes: fRoots English Dance & Song Rock 'n' Reel covers my musical bases pretty well, I believe |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Joe Offer Date: 14 May 09 - 04:31 PM theleveller, is it your impression that US folkies carry guns? [grin] -Joe, who's scared of 'em (guns, not folkies)- |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 14 May 09 - 05:41 PM "I have not met and do not know Lizzie Cornish though I did just look at your MySpace page. It should be "Gandhi", by the way...." Thank ooo very much, Norman. I've just put it round the right way. Dyslexia in action again... :0) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: katlaughing Date: 14 May 09 - 05:47 PM Joe, I think they get all of their agro out online, then they ARE nice to one another in the 3D world.**bg** |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: glueman Date: 14 May 09 - 06:20 PM Only 3 or 4 people cause the grief, unfortunately they all hang out on Mudcat. In real life the apocalyptic horsemen inhabit few establishments so are easy to avoid. No chance of a fundamentalist tent at festivals to go with the chilled zone and jigs and reels marquee - yet. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: matt milton Date: 14 May 09 - 06:49 PM ...and .believe you me, far, far, far worse squabbling, petulance, name-calling and indeed bigotry hatefulness, pettiness and general nonsense is par for the course on the majority of music message boards in other genres elsewhere on t'Interweb. You think this thread is bad? Pah, water off a duck's back. You should see some of the things said on quietus or urban75 or ihatemusic or ukhh or wherever... Just to add my tuppenceworth on what appears to be Ms Cornish's chief issue with fRoots magazine - namely its zippy and often waspish thumbnail reviews. Personally, I like em very much. I think they are a valuable dose of no-nonsense opinionated straight-talk in a folk music culture that generally prefers to wrap its practitioners in cotton wall. And anyway, the fact that those bitesize reviews exist at all means that many more acts get their work discussed in an international mag that don't in any other publication. So even if they get a bad review, it's one more review than they have got anywhere else. (Personally I think music criticism of folks and roots music across the globe is much much much too patronisingly cosy and nicey and toothless and all-friends-together, but that's another thread entirely...) I don't imagine for a second that any kind of "campaign" has ever been waged by either fRoots magazine as a whole, or by Ian Anderson (or anyone else for that matter) as individuals, against any musicians at all.They've got better things to do, such as getting on with shouting about the music they like. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 14 May 09 - 07:45 PM Maybe I should just shut down every thread that shows the slightest hint of animosity, and maybe then people would learn to discuss things in a civil manner. According to a posting a couple of days ago on the Froots Forum where the subject of this fracas came up, a total of four people are banned from there and two of them are posting on this thread. It's very quiet and civilised on the FF. Draw your own conclusions! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 15 May 09 - 05:59 AM I am still a member of the Froots Forum. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 15 May 09 - 06:43 AM I have apologised to Ian Anderson,by e mail. Dick Miles. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 15 May 09 - 07:09 AM "theleveller, is it your impression that US folkies carry guns? [grin]" I certainly didn't want to imply that. I was just making the point that airing grudges on threads like this is less dangerous than blowing each others' heads off. Personally, I like Woody Guthrie's approach with the sign on is guitar that read 'This machine kills fascists'. "It's very quiet and civilised on the FF. Draw your own conclusions!" Well, the conclusion that I would draw is that they don't like people who don't share their opinions. It's either censorship or totalitarianism. I'm against both. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Dave Hanson Date: 15 May 09 - 07:21 AM Two people banned from the fRoots forum eh, one of them has banned from every other forum as well, [ at least once ] Dave H |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 15 May 09 - 07:23 AM yes,I am against censorship ,totalitarianism,croneyism and arse licking. I dont always agree with Lizzie Cornish or Walkabout verse,or Jim Carroll,or Richard Bridge,but they have a right to state their opinions,without being called barking, mad, bonkers or some other derogatory smear. aggressive guest posts are supposed to be deleted here is one that wasnt Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Ralphie - PM Date: 13 May 09 - 09:25 AM Lizzie. Which of the two words "Barking" and "Mad" don't you understand? When you've spent 40 years running a magazine. Then you can criticise. Until then button it. Life a get (re-arrange) |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 15 May 09 - 07:43 AM With you there, Dick. Hopefully see you at Ryedale. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Banjiman Date: 15 May 09 - 07:48 AM "I have apologised to Ian Anderson,by e mail. Dick Miles" Good on you Dick, takes some guts to do that. I'll see you at Ryedale as well. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 15 May 09 - 07:57 AM Good move, Dick. Life is too short, etc. etc.... Now we've got that out of the way and regardless of the motivation (or identity) of Faye Roche, is there any chance of a polite discussion of Ian Anderson's fRooots editorial? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 15 May 09 - 08:24 AM Joe Offer wonders if "the British Folk Scene" is a bunch of loonies. Firstly, you'd need to define what membership of such a grouping entails (and what a "f*lkie" is). I subscribe to neither, so I won't. If ever I think about it (which I try very hard not to), a disparate collection of tie-dye clad, bearded, tankard-wielding weirdos lurches horrendously into view. It is usually accompanied by hordes of noisy small persons sporting fairy wings and playing diablo, with yappy dogs in tow. One thing to know is not to camp anywhere near them at festivals or follow them into a pub. Unless, of course, you're looking for untuned instruments plus vocals in entirely unrelated keys cos anything's Good Enough For F*lk, according to them. NO, IT'S NOT. People started making lists of who they know or do not in the course of the thread, an activity which I assume to be on a par with counting furry creatures (yan, tan, tethera, methera), but these have mysteriously vanished. Well, I know a handful of participants (in a vagueish sort of way) and they're not all entirely bonkers, the ones who actually care about music anyway, and that includes Dick Miles. The other thing that's gone horrendously wrong was on the day when the Random Spam Generator was unleashed onto the internet, the sort who insist on telling you about some "new" performer you've known for decades. One such insisted on telling me in bold upper case some tripe about a performer known to me since 1963. I know exactly which website such a calumny was culled from and its been up there in the ether since 1999 so "must be true" (ha!). The US equivalent (no, you're not getting off lightly) is the sort that strolls into a thread and bor4es interminably for too many inches on something that has sod all to do with the topic. I could get a badge which reads "No, I am not a bloody f*lkie", but why should that be necessary. I am what I've always been, a commentator, alone in my own furrow, reading fRoots. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: MikeofNorthumbria Date: 15 May 09 - 08:26 AM Matt Milton – you praise fRoots for its "zippy and often waspish thumbnail reviews" adding by way of explanation that "I think music criticism of folks and roots music across the globe is much much much too patronisingly cosy and nicey and toothless and all-friends-together …" I couldn't disagree more. One of the things which cheesed me off about fRoots was the smug and self-congratulatory tone of its "zippy" reviews – and many of its articles. Furthermore, one of the main things which originally attracted me to the folk scene (and still keeps me attached to it) is precisely the "all-friends-together" ethos which you seem to despise. So long as fRoots continues to provide enough paying punters with what they want, it will continue to prosper – and good luck to it. But over the years I have found it steadily less interesting and more irritating, so instead, I buy Living Tradition. It may be less edgy, and less cool, than its bigger and glossier rival but to my ears it talks more sense. Wassail! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Les in Chorlton Date: 15 May 09 - 08:35 AM Well, I am glad that that is cleared up L in C The Beech next Wednesday |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Will Fly Date: 15 May 09 - 08:47 AM Diane: If ever I think about it (which I try very hard not to), a disparate collection of tie-dye clad, bearded, tankard-wielding weirdos lurches horrendously into view. It is usually accompanied by hordes of noisy small persons sporting fairy wings and playing diablo, with yappy dogs in tow [....] you're looking for untuned instruments plus vocals in entirely unrelated keys cos anything's Good Enough For F*lk, according to them. Strange... having spent the last week or three in the company of singers and musicians, most of whom would undoubtedly ally themselves with the folk fraternity, in places as diverse as Ditchling, Lewes, Charlwood, Henfield, Wigan, Horwich and Stoke (i.e. East Sussex, West Sussex, Surrey, Lancashire and Staffordshire, for the uninitiated), I found nothing but good musicianship, excellent singing, good fellowship and not a tankard or tie-dye in sight. Apart from the beards, I must have been living in a parallel universe. Perhaps the fairy wings belong to you, Diane. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: glueman Date: 15 May 09 - 08:51 AM The last such publication I read was the NME for about two years in the 70s. Since then my Gallapagos has been a little remote but is spared sudden squalls like this one. On a similar basis I never watch TV, hardly ever listen to the radio and do not take a newspaper yet am able to hold my own in the weekly pub quiz based on information on my ISPs homepage in the microsecond before I hit the kill button. Enough jetsom is caught in me net without paying for the privilege by the scoop. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 15 May 09 - 08:51 AM "Joe Offer wonders if "the British Folk Scene" is a bunch of loonies." I prefer to think of it as the last bastion of the great British eccentric - and long may it be so. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jon Date: 15 May 09 - 08:56 AM I'd like to repeat my previous comments about UK folkies eating their young. Do you folks ever get together and enjoy each other's music, or do you just get together to brawl? Remember the old Hearme days, Joe? I think from the US, you and kat and Jeri in this thread have met me that way in playing/singing music to each other We can get together and give a song or tune and have a good time, even on line. Not saying we can't fall out too... but enjoying the music is not beyond us. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: glueman Date: 15 May 09 - 09:00 AM Diane's vision might be based on images of Cambridge, at least the bits captured in promotional material which contains enough pointy hats, tankards and fairy wings to send any sensible soul in the opposite direction. Such things are the exception at events we visit where 'looking a bit middle aged' is the uniform of choice, something I can pull off without even trying. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Borchester Echo Date: 15 May 09 - 09:07 AM Diane's vision might be based on images of Cambridge I went to the first 10, then scarcely at all since (except when paid to). Towersey more like, though "professional" (woops, bad choice of word) "f*lkies" are rather too ubiquitous. Whatever. I'm absolutely not one. Don't ever dare suggest it. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: glueman Date: 15 May 09 - 09:21 AM "Don't ever dare suggest it." Absolutely not. My own wife, a woman of some forbearance clearly, becomes a turbocharged hybrid of both Trinny and Suzannah when we as much as approach a folk do. It's a form wholly untroubled by the problems of aesthetics - charming in its way but making her want to slap people. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: NormanD Date: 15 May 09 - 09:22 AM Diane Easby wrote: People started making lists of who they know or do not in the course of the thread, an activity which I assume to be on a par with counting furry creatures.....but these have mysteriously vanished. One of the lists was mine, which I did in order to show that my support for fRoots was not based on bias according to whom I knew. Joe Offer's moderating intervention made me realise what an arse I was to have taken part in such broygis, so I asked for the posts to be deleted. Thank you for that, Joe or whoever. I now know what to avoid, and, potentially, who to avoid. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: theleveller Date: 15 May 09 - 09:25 AM "Towersey more like," Yes, I instantly recognised your description of Towersey. I only went once and hated it. It seemed to be an interminable 'middle England' garden fete with a bit of music around the periphery. I now tend to stick to local (Yorkshire) festivals – less tie-dye and pretentions and an excellent standard of music. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: glueman Date: 15 May 09 - 09:28 AM "I now tend to stick to local (Yorkshire) festivals – less tie-dye and pretentions and an excellent standard of music." Totally agree and I'm not even a Yorkie. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 15 May 09 - 11:44 AM just to remind people of the topic at hand. fRoots magazine and folk clubs Thank You For Not making Personal Attacks. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 15 May 09 - 12:00 PM Snail,to try and answer your point someone further up the thread made the assertion,that he doesnt cover grassroots acts. to cover grassroots acts would involve spending a lot of money and time travelling around,would it not,is that practical?. froots has to be run as a business, otherwise it would go to the wall,how can it cover grass roots acts comprehensively? |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: TheSnail Date: 15 May 09 - 12:32 PM Actually, Dick, it was the things he DID say about folk clubs that I was interested in, not the things he doesnt cover. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: katlaughing Date: 15 May 09 - 12:50 PM Jon, remember and still sorrow for their passing...esp. hearing YOU! (Night Owl says "Hi!" and she'd even come back online if we ever got them going again.:-) luvya |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jon Date: 15 May 09 - 01:39 PM That would be tempting in one way kat but I can not do it any more. Please do send Night Owl my regards. I do remember her. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 15 May 09 - 02:50 PM " but enjoying the music is not beyond us" I just noticed this rather snide remark.Other than noticing it, it's really not worth commenting on. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Folknacious Date: 15 May 09 - 03:56 PM If this was all an elaborate scam by F.R. to gain publicity, it obviously backfired!! Have we ascertained whether Faye Roche is a real person, Folk Roots or shhhh-could-it-be T.B. yet? Sorry, not quite read all the posts since I last looked, tend to skip the ones from certain suspects now. The one thing that used to irk me about fRoots is the abundance of pics, and inclusion of 20 year old tracks on some of the freebie cd's of Mr. Anderson's various bands over the years! Personally I think their use of photos is extremely good, the new edition in particular. The one of E2 chasing the clown up the street is brilliant. I don't think the other comment is right, is it? I think I know the names of "Mr Andersons various bands"; Hot Vultures, English Country Blues Band, Tigermoth, Blues Blokes 3; and the only one I can find in the CD track index on the Froots site is Tigermoth, one track on CD7 out of what is it, over 30 CD's now, must be around 500 tracks? I don't have the earliest ones but am I missing something? Don't tell me we have a hallucination pandemic here! |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Frozen Gin (inactive) Date: 15 May 09 - 04:05 PM Folknacious that's a complete list of Ian Anderson's (not that one!!)various bands. Trying to find anything other than Tiger Moth seems to be one of the hardest jobs in the world. Maybe getting in touch with the man might help. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: irishenglish Date: 15 May 09 - 04:21 PM Folknacious, I was talking about a little self promotion that Anderson used within the magazine for his own projects (ok, I guess its his right to do so!) and reissues, etc. I said nothing about the overall quality of the magazine, or did you miss this- " I have been impressed by the evolution of the magazine, since I first started looking at it here in the U.S. in the early 90's." You could be right about the cd's, but I know I'm right about yet another pic of a Tiger Moth reissue or what have you appearing fairly often...but I'm not going to dig out 15 years or so of issues to prove it to you. Maybe I should have said minor quibble, but I like the magazine, very much, so please don't associate me with hallucinogens. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jon Date: 15 May 09 - 04:24 PM " but enjoying the music is not beyond us" I just noticed this rather snide remark.Other than noticing it, it's really not worth commenting on. So you can both comment on and misinterpret something not worth the effort of commenting on. |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: katlaughing Date: 15 May 09 - 04:31 PM If you knew Jon, you'd know it was not a snide remark at all. What's wrong with you all...I thought you wrote the book on irony? Jon, I understand and lament a bit, but I do have those two files you posted for us and have enjoyed them immensely. Somewhere I think I also have a couple of tapes I made of those HearMe sessions. Maybe someday I'll find them and see what I got...not sure the quality will be any good, though.:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: GUEST,Jon Date: 15 May 09 - 05:36 PM Thanks kat. While, yes. reflecting, I had hoped my tone in that post was (to this UKer) light hearted |
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Subject: RE: fRoots magazine and folk clubs From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 15 May 09 - 06:05 PM Ian was in Jethro Tull, although I expect everyone knows that. :0) Shhhh don't tell Joe I'm here, else I'll be sent to bed with no tea! lol |
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