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BS: Obama and torture
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Bobert Date: 20 May 09 - 06:34 PM Quoting Michael Gerson as some expert is a joke... He is a shill for the Republican Party and uis a former speech writer for the Repubs... He is not the least bit believable because of his hostory of supporting every dumbass thing the Repubs have done... The Washington Post should be ashamed to waste ink on this blowhard partisan mythologist... But nevermind Gerson... Seems that a "Truth Comission" might get around to answering some of these questions and set the record straight and... ...I'm all for one being set up!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 21 May 09 - 10:03 PM So now there are clips on television of Senator Schumer addressing the Senate after 9/11 telling public that "Toture may be necessary," and a follow up clip that took place in the last week or so telling the public that "Torture should never be used." I would agree that Senator Schumer is somewhat less credible than Nancy Pelosi, but... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: CarolC Date: 22 May 09 - 12:03 AM Schumer's a neocon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Bobert Date: 22 May 09 - 07:42 AM Waterboard Schumer!!! BTW, anyone also thinking that the new- 'n'improved Dick Cheney Show is very reminisent of the Mad-Dash-to-Attack-Iraq Dick Cheney Show??? Seems all proclamation with no evidence... (Evidence, Bobert??? What's that have to do with anything???) My point, exactly... Here the Bush administration, even after it is over, thinks that if they lie loud enough and often enough that will turn their mythology into reality... Reality is that they haven't provuded one shread of evidence (there's that word again) that torture saved so much as one life, let along the thousands that Dick Cheney is proclaimin'... I'm ready for the Bush administartion to just go the heck away... We had 8 years of their lies and the country grew sick of it and we don't need Darth Vader/Dick Cheney running around the country further pssing off his rabid little fringe right wing radical nutballs... This is how people come to feel it is their duty to assasinate leaders... Dick Cheney should be gagged in the interest of national security... Serious business... Free speech ends when it is used to imflame lunies... B! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 22 May 09 - 07:59 AM "Schumer's a neocon." And now he wants to provide amnesty for millions of illegal aliens, producing more human fodder to fight for Israel. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Amos Date: 22 May 09 - 10:27 AM The Real Path to Security, NYT, offers some good insights about Obama's position. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Peter T. Date: 22 May 09 - 03:55 PM One simply has to repeat, wearily, that none of the people tortured has appeared in a court of law, or even in a military commission subject to standard rules of evidence, etc. They were tortured on the sayso of people who refuse to do anything other than talk on TV shows. The basic working assumption throughout (and it is one that Obama has now embraced) is that America is of course working with the best of intentions, so what it does is ok, if a little over the top: a few more rules here and there, and they can do on doing this. BUT ALL OF THIS IS ILLEGAL ACCORDING TO AMERICAN LAW. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 22 May 09 - 04:48 PM So are Schumer's aliens, but they're still here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: GUEST Date: 26 May 09 - 01:00 PM an interesting report in the BBC news last night http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00l26mf/Reporters_Life_Inside_Guantanamo/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: CarolC Date: 26 May 09 - 01:07 PM The BBC report can only be viewed by people in the UK. Is there a synopsis or a summary that can be provided for those of us outside of the UK? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: ard mhacha Date: 26 May 09 - 01:14 PM I seen this half hour programme last night, quite an eye-opener for anyone in the US, three former inmates gave their account of the torture they went through, not only in Guantanamo but also in Afghanistan. Amazing that the US never acknowledged this as torture, sorry you cannot view this programme, any wizards aboard able to help out?. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Bobert Date: 26 May 09 - 06:24 PM We know what the Cheney/Bush administration did... Heck, Darth Vader is going around the country braggin' about what they did saying that it saved thousands of lives... Problem is that he offers not one instance where torture saved so much as one life... Just noise and more Cheney noise... Just like during the Mad-Dash days... Noise and more noise!!! No facts!!! No evidence!!! No nuthin'!!! Just noise and more noise... Dick Cheney should be committed to a state-run mental hospital and kept there until he can prove that he is not insane... Maybe waterboard the sumabich a couple hunert times, to boot!!! I'm sick of the Bush/Cheney/Lie/Scare Machine... We have had ebough... Only the most rabid lunies find any entertainment value in it... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: dick greenhaus Date: 26 May 09 - 08:54 PM There's something about politics: can you imagine anyone, contemplating an accused thief or murderer, saying "....but that was in the past. We should look forward...." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Bobert Date: 26 May 09 - 09:17 PM Consider the choices, Dick... It hasn't been all that long since we heard the Bush folks blaming everything on Clinton... Might of fact, that phase lasted about the entire first Bush term... It was eventually seen as ducking the issues... Obama is smarter than to fall into that trap... He is letting others (with no protest) go after Bush and Cheney... That is what is known as wisdom... Why should he do all the heavy lifting and put himself in brawls that he clearly doesn' need... Yah, the Repubs would love nothin' more than to drag him into the fray... Why??? I think it is obvious... Obama has never said that he would let the real bad guys- you know, the ones who ordered up torture- get off scott free... He has said that those folks who thought they were foloowing orders aren't in his sights... That is refreshing... The Bush people wnated to make these folks out to be just a few "bad apples"... That was a complete an total coop out... Obama is saying, "Hey, let's not blame the grunts"... What is wrong with that??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 27 May 09 - 12:08 PM Hopefully this entire thing will blow over before any more people get all worked up over it. When somebody attacks your country, you do what you have to to catch the perpetrators. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: ard mhacha Date: 27 May 09 - 01:11 PM Right you are Riginslinger, lynch the the nearest towel-head. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: CarolC Date: 27 May 09 - 01:30 PM But the point is that we didn't need to torture people in order to get whatever information we needed to catch the perpetrators. We were able to get that information without the use of torture. We tortured people for other reasons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Bobert Date: 27 May 09 - 05:38 PM If, as many experts say, torture does not make us more safe but less safe then it seems counterproductive to use it... This is clear thinging and not emotive and vengefull thinking of Dick Cheney... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 27 May 09 - 06:18 PM "We tortured people for other reasons." What other reasons could there possibly be? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: CarolC Date: 27 May 09 - 06:59 PM To fabricate a connection between al Qaeda and Saddam that didn't exist. If we could torture people into saying such a connection did exist, Cheney would have a pretext to wage war against Iraq for oil, for the further enrichment of his cronies, and to establish a hegemonic presence in the region complete with enormous permanent military bases. Another reason is to have people to point to and say, "Look, see those dangerous people who admitted to doing these bad things? We need to have endless war so we can protect you from them." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Amos Date: 04 Jun 09 - 12:01 PM Thirteen People Responsible for Torture and some insight as to what and who they worked for. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: dick greenhaus Date: 04 Jun 09 - 12:24 PM Bobert- You've explained why the Chief Executive shouldn't push the matter--but he shouldn't impede the DOJ. Prosecution for an alleged war xrime isn't optional--it's legally mandatory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM I suspect the great majority of the American public aren't really concerned about this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: dick greenhaus Date: 04 Jun 09 - 06:13 PM I suspect that you're right. What does that have to do with enforcing the law? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jun 09 - 10:04 PM dick - It doesn't really, but the law anymore seems to sway with opinion. And given Obama's effort to reach out to Islamic nations, dragging all of this stuff up in public now would probably be more detrimental to the country and the world than ignoring it. Besides, look at all the laws that are broken where elected public officials happily look the other way. On my list of priorities, this one would certainly take a back seat to a number of others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: CarolC Date: 04 Jun 09 - 11:32 PM One of the best things Obama could possibly do to mend relations with the Muslims of the world would be to enforce our laws against torture and the Geneva Conventions. The political elites in the Islamic countries might not be too thrilled with that (because many of them use torture themselves), but the majority of Muslims in the world would take it as a huge sign of the US' desire for healed relations with Muslims around the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Jun 09 - 01:08 PM The law may well sway with opinion. And with political realities. This is not a good thing. And, Rig, the laws that are often broken when public officials look the other way do not involve treaty obligations and international law. I'm all in favor or applying the law when it exists. Otherwise, it ceases to exist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jun 09 - 02:23 PM Great - Then I wish they'd start enforcing the immigration laws so the economy could recover. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Obama and torture From: dick greenhaus Date: 05 Jun 09 - 08:34 PM sure. Enforce them, too. |
