Knockholt Forever Autumn

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 11:57 AM

I would never shoot a messenger Richard. At Bedlam where I work I use that statement all the time to my superiors.It cuts them to the quick.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 12:00 PM

Im the 1st on Page 8.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 04:58 PM

Excellent post there IMO, Melodeonboy.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: naughtyforty
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:15 PM

I really hope that Mr Barden makes it to Knockholt - Melodeon Boy - are you going to grace us with your presence? Even if you have gigs, surely you could leave your tent pitched and return to knockholt afterwards - we don't go to bed early you know!!!! (my typing is crap tonight due to too much wine!!!!) It has taken about ten minutes to type this message alone!!!!! Can't wait to see you all there (if not before at Faversham!!) x x

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:35 PM

Actually, I think the greatest responsibility is to stand up for what is right. How much do we now criticise those who in the past nodded racist practices through - just an example?

While much US acoustic material s not "folk" it is firmly routed in the resistance of some great musicians to oppression.

We should not lose that spirit.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 30 Aug 09 - 05:56 PM

"How much do we now criticise those who in the past nodded racist practices through - just an example?"

RB, sorry - I don't follow. Can you explain?

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:32 AM

Apartheid comes to mind

Franco in Spain
Mussolini in Italy
Hitler in Germany

These got a toehold because people nodded them through.

The continued institutionalising and marginalsation of indigenous peoples in the US, Australia, Europe, Asia.

Looking the other way from "Strange Fruit" in the USA for a fucking century after slavery was abolished.

Current mindless "terrorist" appellation to anyone of Middle Eastern origins all over the globe.

If one is still nodding, that is one too many.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:59 AM

Well, in England between the wars, when decent people did not erupt in fury when they heard it said to another "Oh, no, you're much too nice to be Jewish".

In my lifetime, when decent people did not erupt in fury when they heard it said to another "I'd employ you, of course, but I have to think of the effect on my other customers".

Just examples

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:09 AM

I really hope John Barden comes to Knockholt I look forward to seeing everyone at the event.
I only have three holidays a year and Knockholt is based around two of those three.
I personally go to Knockholt for the players and singers and above to join in have a good time. We all look after our self's we cook for each other and entertain each other. with song and music. That is what makes Knockholt unique,
I personally know two people who are so far not coming to Knockholt due to clashing political opinion .
Its having a effect already on the event and it has not even started yet.

10 years ago i was severely beaten had broken teeth in my mouth and a busted nose due to a comment I made in a pub in Eltham regarding a statement I made to a bunch of racist thugs. my glasses wont sit on my face they keep slipping down over my nose due to the dent left in my nose by a fist. and it is a constant reminder.

"All the more reason to rally around I hear some say.
No not at all you were not standing in my shoes you folk were not having bits of teeth extracted from your Jawbone over three weeks of harsh dental treatment at Guys hospital.

The incident has not changed my views on racism I hate it.
I refuse to post further on this subject has I think it is being watched and monitored by just the people we are protesting against. if you wish too reply please PM me.

At present I am still looking forward to going to KNOCKHOLT a event run by Folkmob the club I attend in Eltham.
I put it too you how many attended the launch of Folk against Fascism at Sidmouth.
Hardly anyone I wager so why bring it to Knockholt.
To be honest with you all I do not know weather to buy a train ticket to Knockholt or a train ticket to Cockermouth in the Lake district where I have a cottage.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:37 AM

Finally.
If you all wish to enjoy Knockers into the future I strongly recommend we return to the Banter and Humor on this thread that is also unique.
Because if we do attract the wrong kind of people and the police are called you can say Goodbye to Knockers forever and thats all there is too it.
Regards to all Pierre.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: The Barden of England
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:49 AM

I will be there Pete, and with song and laughter, banter and humour, for that (I hope) is my normal way, and the only political song I sing is 'Tolpuddle Man'. I don't want to let my views interfere with that in any way, so I don't see why anybody should feel they need to pull out, unless of course they hold fascists views, for if they do, good riddance. I've said it before, and I'll say it again 'There is only one race - the Human Race'
John Barden

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:43 AM

John. The future of Knockholt is my main concern and the supply of this Septembers Saffron to boot.         'Now where did I bury my cooker last June "

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 10:03 AM

"I personally know two people who are so far not coming to Knockholt due to clashing political opinion ."

Really? Clashing in what way? I'm sure there can be no *serious* cause for anyone to really take offence here? For my own part, I must say all that I've seen (on here anyway) has been a little brief minor disagreement, which has (or so it seemed) been jolly swiftly and amicably sorted out, and closed.

I rather understand Johns 'moment' of ill humour back there, as he has been personally targeted for public harassement by those who DO want to turn folk into a political tool, and rather than being intimidated by that harassement and wishing it just went away, he wishes to make a personal stand against it - which as I'm sure you'd agree, is quite as much his right to do so, as it is for anyone else who has no particular interest in the matter, not to do so?

I *really* don't want to sound rude at all here Pierre (and I'm smiling here, but internet doesn't always carry that well), but I didn't notice anything much being talked about politics on here, until you raised the matter yourself.. ;-) I do fully agree however, that this is not really the best place to discuss such matters, so back on topic: Hasn't the weather been spiffing today? Roll on bonfires and songs and silliness..! :-)

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 10:32 AM

PS, as a nooby, I'm probably sounding a bit 'uppity' with some of my comments recently - but I am quite forthright by nature at times (I even told RB that he was "talking fucking bollocks" once, after being invited back to his home for the very first time..) So, I aught to also say, I have very much appreciated the welcome I've received from folks frequenting this thread and related others. I enjoy the camaraderie you all share after having known each other for so long, including some of the mutual and consentual 'abuse'. I'm quite sure that such long held friendships as these, can well endure the expression of a difference of opinion, even when that difference is strongly felt.

Best Wishes All, and I have a funny feeling Pierre, that like it or no, you may well have initiated a discussion, which will almost certainly end up being continued in that windy field beside all the sheep in a weeks time!

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 01:36 PM

Hi Crows sister
You can all go jawing on until your hearts are content at Knockholt. I have nothing against debate of any kind,"I dont care if the sheep join in?
Just dont involve me in it. I prefere to drink and cook or go off on some venture.

"In regards to you sounding "uppity" crowssister Never crossed me mind
I just simply assumed it was Gypsy week.

ALL THE BEST PIERRE.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Royston
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 02:02 PM

I'm still with Pete on this one. I want to drink and play some music and catch up with friends at Knockholt. Like in previous years, leave the politics at home, please. Whatever beliefs Knockholt folkies might hold, they are not "ze enemy", whatever side you look at things from.

We all leave the politics out of it. Anyone who wants to come to a field in the middle of nowhere, a long way from the nearest A&E, to start a pointless fight would have been better going to Codnor last the other weekend, there really isn't any point bringing this to a group of 30 mates at Knockholt.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:15 PM

Richard Bridge you are the bloody limit.
Giving out weather forcasts on other threads.Excellent.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Royston
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:27 PM

And I've even bought some...

...drum roll...


New guitar strings!!

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: The Barden of England
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:27 PM

Now that's carrying it too far Royston!!!!
John Barden

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Royston
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:37 PM

It probably is, JB. It's been so long since I bought a set that I couldn't remember what sizes go on the bloody thing. The last few string-changes were Christmas presents from Richard, who probably got fed up listening the old ones getting more and more dead sounding.

So, I took a guess and got 12-53's. So now my guitar will probably fold in two and implode into its own body. Ho Hum. There's always unaccompanied...

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 05:58 PM

I have never heard of Drum roll guitar strings.
I even looked them up on Google.
when it showed nothing Re Drum roll guitar strings
suddenly the penny dropped. Whata Parlava

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge elsewhere on his network
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 07:05 PM

They were 12-53s.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Lady Raffles
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 09:42 PM

Dear All,

Myself and Sue have been away for the weekend and returned home to see the interesting threads re Knockholt. Oh how the expectation from previous times have changed!

This "get together" was started about 20 years ago by a few people - Anthony who is Sue's Brother, Sue and myself and it was essentially a family gathering that we gradually invited our folk friends to join. It has I feel always retained a happy and easy going sort of atmosphere and that is how it should continue. I don't agree with extreme right wing views, I don't agree with racism, in fact there are lots of things that I do not agree with.

Myself and Sue have put a lot of time and effort into Knockholt over the years and I still believe that the consensus of opinion is that politics and religion should be left at the gate. Sometimes a few spontaneous disagreements will erupt and it is normal that a group of adults will not always agree. I do however feel uncomfortable with any pre meditated desire to try and change the pattern and focus of a much loved bi- annual meeting.

So please, all are welcome but lets try and make it a worthwhile weekend where everyone can enjoy themselves.

Mick.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:24 AM

Well thats another nightshift done, two more to do, Wednesday and Thursday.Boo Hoo I cant come to Folkmob Wednesday night. But I am off
Thurday Friday Saturday and back on shift, Sunday.Monday and Tuesday of next week. I finish Wednesday Morning at 0700 hrs and Im stright off to Knockerholt from work. 1st on the field again this year I wager.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 10:08 AM

here is the herb list I am bring to knockholt.

from my garden
Parsley
Sage
Rosemary
Thyme
Coriander.
Lemon Balm
Finger peppers
Tarragon
Sun flower with seeds.
Red and Green Apples
Plums

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 11:03 AM

It is Mick and Sue's event, I think, particularly since the official folkmob connection remains (I think) severed.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: GUEST,Roberta Woods
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:50 PM

In the absence of any concrete evidence (no names have been forthcoming),I am assuming that the hysteria being whipped up on this thread is aimed at myself and Ken. For my part, I have never knowingly mentioned any political allegiances at Knockholt, going there as I did to listen to the music, over-indulge and talk to other Folk Mobbers. I was blissfully unaware(till post-June), of the 'hatred' being posted on this site, masquerading as liberal outrage - there is something particularly distasteful in a lberal preaching intolerance. I have always loved listening to Richard, John and Royston play, so it now 'sticks in my craw',that these are the same gentlemen who are presumably outraged at my continuing presence at Knockholt. More disappointing still is the fact that newcomers like Crow Sister, Virginia Tam and Silent One now seek to turn this non-political event in a direction that it's founders never sought or wish it to go.. to be continued

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: GUEST,Roberta Woods
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 12:58 PM

As Richard says, this is Mick and Sue's event, and having enjoyed their hospitality at several Knockholts, I would not want my continued presence to be a source of embarassment or discomfort to them and will therefore not be going next week. I admit to being truly shocked at the level of vicious hypocrisy and intimidating bullying evident on this and the FaF threads - and all in the name of tolerance, diversity and liberty

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 01:52 PM

Roberta, you have apparently not been listening to some of the things that I have heard said at Knockholt.

The one that I think shocked me most was

"Well you're all just a bunch of dids really".

But I have also heard the n word and "Paki".

I have also heard BNP arguments, put expressly as BNP arguments, about immigration.

You should note that Mick apparently supports the view that politics should be left at the gate. You should also note that Royston expressly takes that view, and you should not (as you do) state otherwise.

The Silent One has nowhere suggested that you should be unable to say whatever you wish to say (presumably within the confines of polite society, which should exclude ugly racism and threats and of course criminal speech). His post above expresses concern that "Folk against Fascism" (which by its nature is intended to resist the arrogation of folk for political purposes, by fascists) should be gagged.

There is some right-wing folk and neofolk (but not much): Peter Bellamy did some, Harvey Andrews "the Soldier" is accounted that way by some, Chalky White's singing of some military songs could be viewed that way, and there is the output of David Hannam and pals. Oh, I know of a couple of anti-union songs that Simon Barlow sings. But AFAIK there is not much more. The only racist folk songs I know are very old and stem from a period regrettably when antisemitism was an everyday part of England, and they are few. There is some gung-ho Americana.

Most of the body of 1954 folk and neofolk is robustly leftist, the former rejoicing in the small triumphs of man over master (despite ostensible forelock-tugging), and the latter the liberation of man from master. This is not a body of work that it apt to be occupied, as the BNP writings set out as a plan, by racists, to use as a banner for white supremacists. In that sense, the "Folk against Fascism" slogan is perfecly just, and reflects (but more politely) the insignia on Woody Guthrie's guitar "This machine kills fascists". It is a great deal less antisocial than putting golliwogs on the fire.


It seems to me that if, as I understand it still to be the case, Folkmob no longer subsidises the event, the only people with the standing to say what may or may not (or should or should not) be said or done are Mick and Sue. You should see the drafts I prepared (no charge) of what a prudent lawyer should impose as "site rules" to see how far such rules should extend, but they go a great deal further than teh Folkmob diversity policy - which WOULD preclude some of the things I have heard said at Knockholt.

It is then up to potential attendees to decide whether they will attend and comply - or not.

If it be the case that Sue and Mick's rules preclude the wearing of FaF t-shirts or bannering ones vardo or bender with a FaF banner, then there will be a number who will face a decision whether to attend or not.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: GUEST,Roberta Woods
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:29 PM

Richard,

Am I to be held responsible for any utterances of the 'n' or 'P' words at Knockholt? Have you heard any of the same from my mouth? I would never be so crude. Anyway, I'm out of this.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Lady Raffles
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 02:34 PM

Just to set the record straight Knockholt isn't our event, it's now a Folkmob event and has been for many years, but obviously we still have a great personal interest in it's continued success and wouldn't want to see it change too much from how it was in the early day's - a bunch of mates sitting around in a field making our own entertainment and having a good time, as simple as that.

What Mick didn't mention in his message last night was that the Folkmob committee had a meeting last Thursday and one of the subjects we'd been asked to discuss was the request for an FAF banner to be hung on the gate to the field or on the marquee, everyone present at the meeting felt that it wouldn't be appropriate for Knockholt.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Royston
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:27 PM

Roberta,

As Richard pointed out, I am strongly in favour of "no politics" at Knockholt. I have never heard you say anything offensive. Other people, whom I respect and trust, have been offended by your "dids" commnents and I'm unhappy about that.

Since learning that you stood as a BNP candidate it's clear to me that I could never have anything in common with you, all we could ever do is disagree about the most fundamental aspects of life and belief and country. So I choose not to have a lot to do with you.

I reckon that's honest and fair enough. There are lots of people that I wouldn't choose to take a drink with and I reckon that there are a lot of people entitled to feel the same way about me. It's a big enough world, and a big enough field at Knockholt (if we all keep our counsel)

If you doubt my sincerity about this then talk to your brother, we've had a lot of discussion about these issues (because he knows my views) a long time before any of this recent stuff erupted.

As another BNP candidate on this board discovered, if you stand up in the glare of national publicity and swear allegiance to a set of political and social beliefs which the majority of people find abhorrent then you really must expect a lot of people to choose, at least, to want to avoid you. For making that choice I respect your commitment to your cause, but not much else really. That's just the way things are.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 03:42 PM

Roberta, they were from people closely associated with you. As was the "Did" reference. It was you I heard promulgating racist BNP policy, in the Marquee, last September. You may remember I walked off, uttering words of distaste.

Sue, since you have seen what the BNP can do with coded references to you and distortion of your pictorial image, I am surprised that the banning of FaF banners on the gate or in the marquee was carried nem. con. - and I also do not understand why if the Folkmob no longer carries any cost of the event (which I think is true) that decision is up to Folkmob.

I note however that you have not indicated a Folkmob (if that be the touchstone) bar on FaF caravan banners or t-shirts, so that may well be a reasonable compromise, if one wishes to sup with the devil. I can live with that.

Yes, a pleasant dinner party atmosphere would be nice. But what do you do with the guest who craps in the soup - or the guest who points it out? If at your dinner party a guest called another "a Did" (or a Yid) would you not ask him to leave? What would you do with the intervening guest who said that such things were not appropriate? Ask them not to rock the boat? This is of course hypothetical if my reading above is correct, but may come to be an issue in the future. We know what is done if someone drinks too much cider and then strips off in another guest's bedroom. We know waht is done to a freeloader who occupies another's tent, too.

I hope we can extrapolate.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:17 PM

Through out this I have tried to make reason and peace both on thread and through PMs to people.
After all that has been said and done and the now out come I will not be coming to the field first thing Wednesday has planned.

Instead I will attend the Folk mob singaround prior to the event
"IN ORDER TO TRY AND REGAIN SOME FOCUS ON WHAT KNOCKHOLT IS ALL ABOUT

I will arrive on the field Thursday/Friday. I have completely had enough and lost me appetite to BOTH cook & play.

I am not racist, political,and if i believed in any God I would be deluded.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM

from guest Roberta... More disappointing still is the fact that newcomers like Crow Sister, Virginia Tam and Silent One now seek to turn this non-political event in a direction that it's founders never sought or wish it to go

Read all the posts, please. We "newcomers" are only supporting posts made by long time Knockholt attendees. And please do not take them out of context to suit your argument.

Not one of us has stated that we want to hold forth a political agenda at Knockholt. We have only supported other's wishes to display their views on the topic of FaF.

I have and had no intention to "wear" my beliefs on my sleeve or car or insturment at Knockholt. But I would not like being told that I may not.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:31 PM

"I PUT THIS TO YOU FOLK. FROM EXCISTING THREAD.

May I sugest putting up a folk against fascium banner"
Reply
This is folk without Politics.
Reply
Ah Noted Deeply.

Karen and Dal wont have it.
Why should it infringe on the field of Folkmob.
Kind regards Pierre.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 05:52 PM

"I have and had no intention to "wear" my beliefs on my sleeve or car or insturment at Knockholt. But I would not like being told that I may not."

Ditto.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:05 PM

Come on give me a answer Re Good Intent concert night thread.
If it wont work on your door step why try to move it else where.
And dont talk in riddles speak the

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:21 PM

"I am assuming that the hysteria being whipped up on this thread is aimed at myself and Ken."

I'd like to clarify a couple of things.

I didn't even know you existed Roberta. I had no idea there was a candidate for the BNP on here!

For what it's worth, I've certainly expressed no hatred towards members of the BNP on those political threads elsewhere on the board that have evidently angered you enough to quit Knockholt. But if you can't handle people strongly disagreeing with your views on a discussion board, then IMO politics is really the wrong business to be in.

And again, I believe there was no mention whatever of politics on this thread, before PLC informed us that a couple of people had decided to boycott Knockholt, due to their "clashing political views".

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:30 PM

I stated there was no room on the Knockholt gate for a banner but folk mobs banner. And that folk were pulling out because of it. My son Gavin. My Polish friend Chrissey.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:32 PM

Anyway, I'll not be attending. And I'll post no further here. Best wishes to all.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:38 PM

Gavin and Chrissey had no political views. They were just coming they have political views now though brought about by a fucking banner.
How many more times do we at Folkmob have to spell it out we dont want this. And if you dont like it find a field and a farmer of your own. But dont call us racsist. Because we oppose it and we are not.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: The Barden of England
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:42 PM

I have in NO WAY mentioned politics in any of this. If any one of you can show me where I have mentioned POLITICS then please point me there. Neither have I mentioned, nor named, names or pointed fingers in any direction. All I want to do is show my support for FaF. For those who are unaware it is an organisation who are opposed to Folk Music being sold as though it was supporting a British only cause, which I find disciminatory and unpleasant in the extreme. Those who believe I have mentioned any political parties are reading things that just aren't there.
Peter - regarding 'The Good Intent', it was not Dal who said no, so please get that right. He will be approached in due time as it's up to him and Karen whether it will or will not be allowed.
Once again, please get this right - IT IS NOT POLITICS, it is my privilege to support a non political cause which is trying to ensure that my, and other songwriters music, is not used by Fascist and Racists for their nefarious ends.

I'm coming, pure and simple, like it or lump it!!

John Barden

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Girl Friday
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:44 PM

I have thus far kept out of this debacle, but I abhor racism, as much as the next person. We do have the freedom of speech in this country. Is there a problem with anyone expressing their views graphically? And, moreover, is there a danger of anyone who expresses their views graphically being banned from the field?

Sue

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Royston
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Sue,

I think it was established a while back that Folkmob's constitution explicitly prohibits racist/offensive behaviour and supports inclusiveness and diversity. The club regards those statements as all that is necessary to ensure a good and harmonious atmosphere. Beyond that, there are no politics to be done here. Just drinking, music and generally getting on together.

If anyone wants to tatto their face or arse or whatever with FaF logos then good on you, go for it. Great. Lovely. Smashing. Super. Bully's star prize. No objection.

People often demand the freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought, which they seldom use.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: The Barden of England
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 06:56 PM

Peter - and I agreed to no banner at the entrance, but I'm entitled to a 'fucking banner' as you so quaintly put it. So, I'll ask you - should I come now or not - your shout mate !!!

John Barden

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 09:47 PM

John
I Lost it Re earlier posting.
I give up.
Who am I to say if you come or not?
I am suspicious and do not like change.

We agreed indeed no banner on the gate.
"Fly your field banners" and whatever.
The Sheep will be wearing Tee shirts next.

I hope you will be there.
Pierre.

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 09:48 PM

Unusual for me to be pointing out that there is middle ground, as I said above, namely: -


No banner on gate

No banner on marquee

No rules (apart from Folkmob constitution, if applicable) on personal apparel or caravan banners or displays.




Pete, I am not aware of Karen and Dal having had any input into the exchange about the Good Intent concert night, as you cite above. Nor am I aware of their having any applicable constitution that is in any way similar to the Folkmob constitution cited above, nor am I aware of there being any ban at the GI on t-shirts of any kind, although your position seems to have moved from opposition to a gate (or marquee) banner at Knockholt to opposition to antifascist apparel, or any other antifascist expression. In that you seem to go further than Mick's presentation of the "official line" (as above) that "a group of adults will not always agree".

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 09:53 PM

I agree I agree

Subject: RE: Knockholt Forever Autumn
From: Pierre Le Chapeau
Date: 01 Sep 09 - 09:54 PM

Im confused,