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BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11

bankley 06 Feb 08 - 09:19 AM
CarolC 06 Feb 08 - 01:03 AM
CarolC 06 Feb 08 - 12:57 AM
Little Hawk 06 Feb 08 - 12:34 AM
GUEST 06 Feb 08 - 12:28 AM
CarolC 06 Feb 08 - 12:16 AM
Little Hawk 06 Feb 08 - 12:07 AM
CarolC 05 Feb 08 - 09:49 PM
CarolC 05 Feb 08 - 07:28 PM
CarolC 05 Feb 08 - 07:14 PM
CarolC 05 Feb 08 - 07:11 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Feb 08 - 06:35 PM
Little Hawk 05 Feb 08 - 12:45 PM
Wesley S 05 Feb 08 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,ms lemon 05 Feb 08 - 11:56 AM
Teribus 05 Feb 08 - 09:26 AM
The Sandman 05 Feb 08 - 07:09 AM
GUEST,keeping my head down 05 Feb 08 - 04:53 AM
Mickey191 27 May 07 - 10:55 PM
Don Firth 27 May 07 - 07:16 PM
Mickey191 27 May 07 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,Froth 27 May 07 - 05:20 PM
Ebbie 19 May 07 - 03:24 AM
Little Hawk 19 May 07 - 02:01 AM
Donuel 18 May 07 - 10:59 PM
GUEST,Froth 18 May 07 - 06:11 PM
Ebbie 18 May 07 - 03:05 PM
Donuel 18 May 07 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Froth 18 May 07 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,Edward 17 May 07 - 01:04 AM
GUEST,Froth 17 May 07 - 12:51 AM
Little Hawk 16 May 07 - 10:33 PM
GUEST,Bert 16 May 07 - 10:01 PM
GUEST,Froth 16 May 07 - 08:59 PM
CarolC 16 May 07 - 04:38 PM
Wolfgang 16 May 07 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,I'm not Hilary 16 May 07 - 04:27 PM
CarolC 16 May 07 - 04:22 PM
GUEST, Ebbie 16 May 07 - 04:15 PM
CarolC 16 May 07 - 04:09 PM
Ebbie 16 May 07 - 03:16 PM
CarolC 16 May 07 - 03:07 PM
CarolC 16 May 07 - 03:06 PM
Donuel 16 May 07 - 02:57 PM
CarolC 16 May 07 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,Froth 16 May 07 - 01:55 PM
Little Hawk 16 May 07 - 01:51 PM
Don Firth 16 May 07 - 01:36 PM
GUEST,Froth 16 May 07 - 12:50 PM
Ebbie 16 May 07 - 12:29 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: bankley
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 09:19 AM

I heard ol' Willie on the Alex Jones radio show the other day... good interview, one of his newer songs was played 'Peace on Earth', I believe it was called...there's a line in there that stuck with me.. 'what's a liars word worth'.... well, they can't rattle him much, like what was done to 'Dixie Chicks'... good for Willie, but I still can't figure out which looks more weathered....him or his guitar..


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 01:03 AM

Have you seen this one, LH?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4251254971488610838


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:57 AM

Thanks, LH!


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:34 AM

It was a shorter video where David von Kleist was speaking to an audience about various related stuff. It's on YouTube. I'll see if I can find a link to it that works.

Try this...


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:28 AM

This thread was pretty nasty until CarolC showed up and called a spade a spade, way back when. Then people remembered their manners again and resumed a very civil discourse, asking nicely for supporting evidence for arguments they respectfully disagreed with.

That's pretty close to a miracle.


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:16 AM

What was the thing you posted at 05 Feb 08 - 12:45 PM, LH? It was one of the ones that was removed (before I had a chance to see it).


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Feb 08 - 12:07 AM

Thanks for the link, Carol. I just finished watching the entire thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: RosieO'Donnell&WillieNelson on 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 09:49 PM

Here's the 911: Ripple Effect video (again)...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6847507648836588010


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 07:28 PM

Here's a bunch of others with Willie (different interview). I wonder how long they'll stay up. They all work as of the time of this posting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmw5X0k5st0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qDcAHV2wJ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDBWDuOcz0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6HIGvQJjhQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqGFf7vqZaE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u59SIHtiyiI


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 07:14 PM

Here's another copy. It works right now. I wonder how long it'll stay up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1en0rUx_s0


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 07:11 PM

The first two links worked earlier today (I don't know about the others, because I didn't try to open them). The people responsible for those pages seem to have (for some reason) been persuaded to delete them. I have to assume that the others worked at the time they were posted. If that's the case, that would mean that all of the pages posted to this thread, all from different sources, were deleted since early this morning. Even your copy no longer works, McGrath.

Hmmmmm.....


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 06:35 PM

That last link doesn't work - and nor do any of the other ones in this thread....

But here's another copy of the first one which is still there.


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 12:45 PM

Those who are afraid to let questions be asked have something to hide.


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 12:12 PM

Yeah - Willie's a real engineer. You should see the size of the doobies he can roll.


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: GUEST,ms lemon
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 11:56 AM

That was THE most interesting 1 1/2 hours i have ever spent. What a brave man Dave vonKliest is! Thanks for pointing me in that direction. Phew...!

Sal


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 09:26 AM

W shucks, they missed the chance to put up an MP3 of "Ol Shoe"


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Subject: RE: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 07:09 AM

nothing would surprise me.


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Subject: Willy Nelson speaks out
From: GUEST,keeping my head down
Date: 05 Feb 08 - 04:53 AM

is this what really happened?

make up your own mind

ah


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Mickey191
Date: 27 May 07 - 10:55 PM

Referencing Donuel's post May 18-2:25pm

There is a report in that link that the Fluoride in our toothpaste is actually a government plot. It will induce _lethargy_ & make us _slow of wit_; so the "The Takeover" will meet with little or no resistance.

Jeeze-Do you think Bush is using Crest with Fluoride?

Now I know where all the great comedy writers are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 May 07 - 07:16 PM

Well . . . member of a super-race, no?

Don Firth

P. S. déjà moo?


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Mickey191
Date: 27 May 07 - 06:33 PM

See Donuel's 5/18/07 link. It such a very, very weird read. If you desire a giggle how does this suit you?

Martin Bormann (Hitler aide and S.S. assassin) and Adolph Hitler (photographed in 1997 at age 107).
The Hitler photo was taken during a "reunion" at the Lake McDonald Lodge in Glacier National Park, Montana, on August 27, 1997. According to Skorzeny, Adolph Hitler was alive and well in the U.S. in 1997!

Do you think he went skiing??


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 27 May 07 - 05:20 PM

http://cdn5.tribalfusion.com/media/854966.jpeg

A link to one of the Drudge Report's bogus little teasers. The mainstream media is desperate to get rid of Rosie O'Donnell.

O'Donnell left "The View" when they wouldn't allow her to bring on William Rodriguez, the janitor who saved no telling how many people on 9/11. Had the master keys. He said a bomb went off in the basement of his building. Here's a 51 second clip of O'Donnell being made up for TV and telling the audience about him. She gets a figure or two wrong, but then she does better under the pressure than I could.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTMB7nM43Sc

On the day that The View was going to have William Rodriguez and some other 9/11 people on, GWBush held a press conference. Now, TV Guide and all schedules still showed that these 9/11 people were going to be on the show that day, even though they had cancelled because of threatened censorship (The View has installed a 15 minute delay since O'Donnell started talking about 9/11. They edit out her comments, and the guests didn't want to be a part of that abridgement of freedom of speech). But Bush's people had gone ahead and scheduled a press conference. It was fluff, nothing worth calling a conference for. And it was only covered by ABC television, which meant it pre-empted The View. THAT'S how desperate these criminals are. A President of the U.S. is dragged out to pre-empt Rosie O'Donnell.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/odonnell_was_bush_speech_scheduled_pre_empt_view.htm

The mainstream media is going to go nuts when Loose Change hits theaters this summer. It's the updated version, narrated by Charlie Sheen and bankrolled by billionaire owner of the Dallas Mavericks. It'll be on hundreds of screens around the nation--how the military-industrial complex carried out 9/11.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 07 - 03:24 AM

No. He's just trying to say, Little Hawk, that Rosie O'Donnell is an outspoken lesbian and physically not appealing to him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 07 - 02:01 AM

Why? Is that her standard technique for dealing with all situations or have I missed something? ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:59 PM

Rosie should be on MSNBC to catch a predator show.

When the internet child molester shows up, she comes around the corner gives him a bear hug and starts french kissing the child predator until he dies or confesses.

IT would be a deterrent greater than prison


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 18 May 07 - 06:11 PM

Well, O'Donnell has been talking about September 11, not Nazi connections, etc. This is interesting, though. Maybe it belongs on that Bush/Nazi thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 May 07 - 03:05 PM

I read the "documentary" on the other thread- frankly, the assertion that GHW Bush is George Scherff, Jr is no more convincing than the photo that is linked to on this thread. Any resemblance to Bush, the senior, is superficial in the extreme.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 07 - 02:25 PM

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm
shhh
Don't tell Rosie about this


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 18 May 07 - 02:10 PM

Excellent article. Rosie O'Donnell is criticized for saying the 600,000+ Iraqis killed since the start of the latest war aren't terrorists. LOTS of good links that give a good history of false-flag terrorism at the bottom of this story.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/media/odonnell_fox_gibson_stretched_thin_over_rosie_imagination.htm

Another good article from infowars.com -- NY Times Attempts To Debunk 9/11 Truth; Fails Miserably

"Although it is easily countered, the Times exposure highlights the fact that 9/11 truth movement has exploded into the mainstream. It also underlines the fact that the debunkers are losing the battle to quell the public's desire to uncover the lies and discover what really happened on 9/11 as their line of argument becomes more diluted and weakened with each ill informed and poor researched attack piece they produce."

http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/ny_times_attempts_to_debunk_911_truth.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Edward
Date: 17 May 07 - 01:04 AM

I know now that Hurricane Katrina and Rita were completely man made by the US government. They were Harrpicanes:

Officially, HAARP is a research station directed by the Air Force Research Laboratory's Space Vehicles Directorate in Gokona, Alaska, that opened in 1992 to gather data about the atmosphere and "radio propagation conditions." Their web site (www.haarp.alaska.edu) states that they are monitoring and archiving the naturally occurring variations with the sun's activities such as sunspots and solar flares.

HAARP constitutes a system of powerful antennas capable of creating "controlled local modifications of the ionosphere." However, there seems to be much more going on behind HAARP's public face.

THE IDEA FOR HAARP BASED ON TESLA TECHNOLOGY

HAARP is based on physicist Bernard J. Eastlund's U.S. Patent from 1987 titled "Method and Apparatus for Altering a Region in the Earth's Atmosphere, Ionosphere, and/or Magnetosphere" (US #4,686,605).   Eastlund's patent is based, in part, on the works of Nikola Tesla, who first suggested that RF could transmit approximately one watt per cubic centimeter to any point on the planet without the use of wires. Thus, power can generated on the ground and then sent through the air to the upper areas of the atmosphere miles above the surface of the planet.

WHAT HAARP COULD BE USED FOR

Today, HAARP has 48 antennas that can broadcast up to 960 kW of power, and plans to expand to 180 antennas and 3.6 megawatts of power by 2006. Even that is short of the thousands of antennas and hundreds of megawatts of power that Eastlund figures would be needed to control the weather or act as an effective missile shield. However, even at 3.6 megawatts, significant weather control experiments could be performed.

THE ALASKAN DEATH RAY

It has been alleged that the HAARP facility, located near Gokona, Alaska, is not the "real" HAARP project, and that the actual HAARP is conducting experiments that seem beyond the realm of possibility. Writer Dan Eden, of the Viewzone website, recently revealed that in 1998 he was shown a secret HAARP facility near Fairbanks, Alaska.

STRANGE WEATHER

Several years later, in 1999, Dan Eden received e-mails from a reader in Serbia, where the UN forces had been fighting Melosovich, mostly with American armed forces and equipment. The e-mails mentioned a strange phenomenon that accompanied attacks by the U.S. A-10, "warthog" fighter jet.
It was reported that, just prior to an air attack, the sky often filled with huge black clouds that would materialized out of nowhere, and stayed until the end of the campaign -- which was usually couple of weeks. However, instead of rain, falling on Belgrade, there were hailstones the size of eggs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 17 May 07 - 12:51 AM

Yeah, well, at least no one on Mudcat has threatened to make me eat my fingers. I got that guy into a rage with an "add hominid to the list of things you're not" attack.

I was thinking of getting Griffin's latest book, but I may not have to if this guy keeps posting:

http://us-amnesia.blogspot.com/2007/05/excerpt-debunking-911-debunking-experts.html

Looks like he's doing what I planned to do...thumbnail reviews of points and chapters. Some interesting links on this page.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 07 - 10:33 PM

"It's as if you (the members of the Mudcat Forum) care more about who's saying something rather than what's being said."

HALLELUIA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is it! That is exactly what is so wrong and so sick with the debates on this forum, it is what continually poisons the atmosphere around here, and it is why I would frankly rather post as a "Guest" here myself much of the time. It's not worth the "savaging" one undergoes, as Froth so aptly puts it, to be a named member here and say what you really think about certain stuff.

And, yeah, that is what usually happens in any group of people who know each other after awhile, and think they know each other well. New subjects merely become an excuse to refight old battles and rehash old grudges. That is very, very sad, but yes, it is human nature.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 16 May 07 - 10:01 PM

Wheee Dogies Froth, don't you know those tornadoes in Kansas were faked too?

Here's the proof: Actual pictures of the Greensburg tornado?
My office has been getting a lot of calls from media and charity groups looking for pictures of the Greensburg tornado. I have noticed a lot of fake Greensburg images and videos being posted on the Internet. If anyone has actual still images, or video frame grabs, I will be happy to forward the requests your way.

Suspicious 'tornado' wipes out 95% of Greensburg, Kansas.

Also why did Obama say: "In case you missed it, this week, there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died - an entire town destroyed," when only 1.943 people live there?

Reason is Howard Dean and Dick Durbin dreamed it all up to get Obama elected. Yeah. Here it is in his own words of the Governor: "Howard Dean called me around 5 o'clock and told me not to ask the White House for any help or make any statements until I heard back." "Dick called me an hour or two later, and that's when he told me that we needed to use this"

It was even on the radio so you know it has to be true.

Believe me, nothing the government tells you is true.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 16 May 07 - 08:59 PM

I don't know anyone on this forum, that I'm aware of. And I choose to post as a guest primarily because of the savaging I watch you folks inflict on each other. It's as if you care more about who's saying something rather than what's being said. That's not a criticism, just an observation. And it happens on the other forums where I post. Cliques are always that way. Human nature, I suppose.

I always use the same name in a particular thread on Mudcat, for what it's worth.

And the debate on 9/11 will never end. What WILL happen is that the most ridiculous conspiracy theory out there (the "19 men with boxcutters & the Cavemen of Tora Bora") will continue to undergo scrutiny. The story didn't work on Day 1, and it's utterly discredited now. Not one aspect of the government's story has survived critical analysis. The only reason the govt can continue to use the story is because they've slapped thousands of gag orders on people, and they control the court system where the racketeering and murder suits against the federal mafioso have been stalled. (Translator Sibell Edmonds & FBI agent Robert Wright are good examples of gag orders, Stanley Hilton is representing lots of the families of 9/11 victims...search those names and some interesting info will turn up. Ellen Mariani, too).

It's insulting that the people who control the U.S. govt put out a juvenile story of what happened, then they waited over a year to investigate, then they tell us to shut up when we point out the flaws in the unbelievable results of the "investigation." Do you folks know how DUMB the gangsters in Washington think you are? "The Cavemen of Tora Bora" is a work of juvenile fantasy. You're being fed dirt while they tell you it's caviar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:38 PM

A theory involving a conspiracy is something else than a conspiracy theory.

According to whom Wolfgang?


Crap, BTW, doesn't become anything else by amassing a higher pile of it. It just becomes more crap.


This one cuts both ways.


There is no way 9/11 conspiracy theorists will ever be satisfied by any answers.

This may be true. But those of us who are not 9/11 conspiracy theorists, but who are only interested in uncovering the truth will be satisfied when this is accomplished.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:33 PM

Wolfgang, you seem not to understand that even the official version of events is a "conspiracy theory" (Carol)

A theory involving a conspiracy is something else than a conspiracy theory. Of course, conspiracy theorists (but not only them) have tried since long to change the meaning of that phrase, or rather, to broaden the sense of that phrase in such a way that it loses the original meaning.

I make a distinction and do not call each theory that has some people conspiring to do something a conspiracy theory. If you do not want to make this distinction it is up to you, Carol. But to post that I do not seem to understand just because I use an expression in its original sense, is silly.

Crap, BTW, doesn't become anything else by amassing a higher pile of it. It just becomes more crap.

There may be some gems hidden in all that crap, but they are hard to find. Don (or Ron?) is right: There are not two theories against each other, there would be hundreds more. Saddam could have planted the explosives to get his revenge for the first defeat and might have tried to blame Osama to get away with it. Doomsday Christians might have....

It is in a way the same poor thinking as in the creation against evolution debate. Creationists pick on problems in one of the evolution theories (there are many). They identify a problem and use it as if that was a proof for one completely different theory (their pet theory). Eventually, the problem is solved, then they pick on the next problem. Since these theories of evolution will never be complete, creationists will never be out of ammunition.

There is no way 9/11 conspiracy theorists will ever be satisfied by any answers.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,I'm not Hilary
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:27 PM

As investigations by unbiased researchers continue, it's become increasingly clear that 911 was a conspiracy unleashed by Zionist agents posing as Arabs.

The facts on 911.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:22 PM

Sorry, Ebbie. I guess I should say "the experts you say you are more inclined to believe".


No, I don't have any idea who Froth is. But I do appreciate that he/she is providing me with some information that I might not have seen otherwise.

Interesting (and rather catty, I might add) that you would make such an insinuation. Who, exactly do you think this person is whom I know so well?

I should tell you that if you think it's me or JtS, you should know that if either of us were to try to post under any names other than CarolC or JtS, Joe Offer would out us here in the open forum faster than you could blink your eyes (as he has done before). So I suggest you spend some time in reflection about why you are so quick to make such insidious and defamatory accusations with no evidence to back them up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST, Ebbie
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:15 PM

Carol C, when you speak of "my" experts it tells me that you are not really interested in knowing the truth.

Incidentally, I suspect that you know Guest/Froth really, really well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 07 - 04:09 PM

Silencing people won't accomplish anything, Ebbie.


Heh... I just had a look around. Even the NIST doesn't accept the theory being promoted by your experts, Ebbie. Apparently, even the "experts" you are more inclined to believe can't agree on what happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 May 07 - 03:16 PM

Does anyone really think that our debating the issue is going to get at the truth? I don't. We don't know enough; we may never know enough. I'm not impressed with the attitude of 'what might have happened' and therefore you are a naive fool who believes anything the authorities put forth. Frankly, I am more inclined to believe what the authorities - said authorities being people who do have the educational background that lends authenticity to their arguments. We here on Mudcat do not fit that mantle.

And, yes, Carol C, I did read the whole article. As I read conspiracists' articles.

Enough. Enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 07 - 03:07 PM

My last post was for Don Firth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 07 - 03:06 PM

Don, you're wrong. While I don't agree with everything the person posting in this thread as "Froth" is saying or postulating, he/she is keeping the conversation going. We need that if we are ever going to have a credible (and independent) investigation into what really happened on 9/11.

Don't try to silence people on this subject. You don't really accomplish what you think you're accomplishing by doing that. If you find the discussion a waste of time, don't read these kinds of threads. What's so difficult to understand about that?


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Donuel
Date: 16 May 07 - 02:57 PM

An ignorant spamming nafarious troll?

GIT EM !

Spaw git the dawgs...Bobert, scout em out from the air,,, Susan, pray fer em.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: CarolC
Date: 16 May 07 - 02:54 PM

You didn't actually read the page you linked to, did you, Ebbie.

Unfortunately, there are dishonest people in every profession (otherwise there wouldn't be so many "experts" who can testify in court on both sides of any case).


Your experts are saying that the floors separated from the core and then fell independently of it. That is not a credible explanation of what happened. If it had happened that way, the core would have been left standing. And as I said before, it doesn't explain building 7. Your "experts" are lying to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 16 May 07 - 01:55 PM

In your exiting backward glance, Firth, please observe that the top 30 floors are falling sideways, not downwards. If nature had taken its course, they would have fallen free of the building. They didn't. And the laws of physics weren't miraculously suspended so the situation could correct itself. The only POSSIBLE explanation for the interruption of the sideways angular momentum is explosives on the floors below. I can dig up the scientific papers that address that if you want, but the door just hit you in the ass on your way out.

And I'm not "flooding with conspiracy theories." The mother of all conspiracy theories is the government's, and I'm just pointing out flaws.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 07 - 01:51 PM

Don, "hissy-fits" is another loaded phrase, similar to "tinfoil hats" and "little green men". Such phrases are used to trivialize an argument one doesn't agree with and dismiss the arguer as some kind of crank.

You are quite right that the Guest has a hobby horse in regards to 911. However, this particular hobby horse may be one of some real substance. We all have hobby horses. We all have things we like to focus on, and the more we like to focus on them, the more we usually end up knowing about them, correct?

I could bore you for hours and hours with stuff about the Kennedy assassination or detailed information about the Japanese Navy in WWII, but frankly, I can't be bothered... What would it achieve?

I could talk to you about my personal experiences in regards to UFOs. What would that achieve? Nothing. I have learned to enjoy the things I know about and am interested in, and not necessarily expect anyone else to know the same things or feel exactly the same way about them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 May 07 - 01:36 PM

"Then what's this a photo of?" It's a photo of a portion of the building tilting a bit, but still falling downward.

GUEST,(pick a name, any name, but make it different in every thread GUEST starts), has presented us with a whole menu of conspiracy theories on a variety of subjects over the past several months. This is merely another one that said individual wants us to have hissy-fits over.

I smell a troll. A troll with an immense amount of time on his or her hands.

I do entertain the idea that the government may have been involved in the WTC attack, but I need much better evidence than the cut-and-pastes from conspiracy web sites and from other "true believers" that GUEST,(whoever) offers. Many of the so-called scientific or engineering type bits of evidence simply do not stand up to close scrutiny. And some is mere speculation offered as facts and some of it is just outright wrong.

No, GUEST merely has a hobby-horse that he or she is riding. And GUEST responds to those who question his or her "evidence" by accusing them of either being too cowardly to face the horrible "truth" or a government shill and in on the conspiracy.

Now, that, ladies and gentlemen, is not a tactic of legitimate, logical debate. That is a personal attack. And that indicates to me that the person who uses it realizes that he or she is on very shaky ground.

If I ridicule people who use this kind of dodge, it's because I find them ridiculous.

This whole argument is pointless, and diverts attention from real issues—such, perhaps—as serious investigations into what really happened and who might be either responsible or criminally negligent.

Perhaps that's why GUEST is flooding us with conspiracy theories. Now, here's a conspiracy theory for you to contemplate:   GUEST is a government shill whose job it is to spread so many conspiracy theories about the WTO attack that the truth gets lost in all the nonsense. Not unlike the ink-like fluid that an octopus ejects when attacked, so while the attacker goes for the ink, the octopus jets quicky away, undetected.

I'm out of here. This is a waste of time.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: GUEST,Froth
Date: 16 May 07 - 12:50 PM

Okay. I glanced at Ebbie's Eagar & Musso article and remembered reading it a dozen times years ago. I got to the end of the first paragraph this time and had to give it up. Such bullshit. Collapse without significant tipping. Then what's this a photo of?

http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/wtc-southtower.jpg

The top 30 floors of the south tower falling sideways. The "angular momentum" of that part of the building should have continued sideways, and would have unless something other than the laws of nature were at work.

So, from memory, the Eagar & Musso paper was produced about 10 weeks after the attacks of 9/11. At that time, Rudy Giuliani was busy destroying the crime scene, and the U.S. govt was still more than a year away from even BEGINNING an investigation. So what data did these two scientists have to work with? None. The paper is sheer speculation. It says things COULD have happened this way, not DID, but even as speculation it fails miserably. It contradicts itself in fundamental ways that took time to become obvious to the shell-shocked public.

For example, within the paper Eager and Musso admit that the penetration of the structures would result in a redistribution of the weight bearing to the other, non-damaged steel supports in the structures. So the impact of the planes would have virtually no effect on the buildings. They also point out there was no wind stress on that day, so that leaves fire as the reason for the collapse of the towers.

And the numbers they present on fire don't take into account the probability that all the fuel would have burned in 5-10 minutes. Most of it burned in fireballs in 10-15 seconds, but some may have lasted 10 minutes. After that, you see black smoke from scattered furniture and paper fires coming from the towers. Fires not hot enough to affect steel. Firefighters radioed that they needed two hoses to knock out the remaining fires. Hardly the inferno needed to cause catastrophic collapse. So the temperatures needed to melt steel weren't there, yet much later, pools of molten steel were found beneath the rubble, at bedrock. So steel HAD melted on that day, and there's no way the numbers in Eager & Musso's paper support temperatures high enough to melt steel. (There's video on the internet of those pools of steel...footage shot by rescue workers).

But say a maximum of 10 minutes of fuel fire followed by trashcan fires DID burn hot enough to weaken the MASSIVE heat-absorbing beams in the WTC towers, the steel would only be weakened in small, specific areas. There was no raging inferno, or we wouldn't have pictures of people standing in the holes left from the planes' impacts. So the fires that were supposed to have caused loss of structural integrity were localized, and here you get back to what Eager and Musso themselves admit in their paper, that when one area of the structure is compromised, the weight-bearing shifts to other supports. So, say a half-dozen columns in the center of the building were heated to the point of compromise, the weight would just be shifted to the other 41 columns in the core.

That's just what I remember about the paper from 5 years ago, off the top of my head. The Eager-Musso "study" has been discounted for so long that I don't recall any other specifics, but they're out there, discussed in detail on the internet, if you search. And I imagine David Ray Griffin's new book does a brutal job on the paper.

The Eagar-Musso paper was junk science intended to give the green light to contractors, that's all. SOME sort of investigation-like paper was needed in order for government contracts to go forward. The govt couldn't fund building and re-building projects when it appeared to all clear-thinking people that the Newtonian laws of physics could be switched on and off, so a paper was needed to explain the WTC tower collapses more or less in accordance with those laws of physics. And this was that paper. It was intended to placate the public and grease the financial skids for the crooks who have seized the US govt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Rosie O'Donnell & 9/11
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 May 07 - 12:29 PM

It does address free fall speed versus pancaking, Carol C.

These persons linked to, impressive as they are, are citing political flaws. Not one of them is a structural engineer.

Neither, ao far as I can see, is any one of the Mudcatters involved here an engineer. We are all - some more than others - spouting off theories as though we knew what we are talking about.

We don't.


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