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'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)

GUEST,Tunesmith 28 Mar 07 - 03:11 AM
The Villan 28 Mar 07 - 03:19 AM
Joe Offer 28 Mar 07 - 04:01 AM
MG John 28 Mar 07 - 04:20 AM
GUEST,Guest 28 Mar 07 - 04:24 AM
GUEST,buspassed 28 Mar 07 - 04:55 AM
George Papavgeris 28 Mar 07 - 04:57 AM
Georgiansilver 28 Mar 07 - 05:19 AM
George Papavgeris 28 Mar 07 - 05:30 AM
GUEST,Keith 28 Mar 07 - 05:54 AM
Bee 28 Mar 07 - 06:24 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 28 Mar 07 - 06:56 AM
Bee 28 Mar 07 - 07:10 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 28 Mar 07 - 07:15 AM
Bee 28 Mar 07 - 07:49 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 28 Mar 07 - 09:32 AM
GUEST,meself 28 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM
Bonnie Shaljean 28 Mar 07 - 09:51 AM
bobad 28 Mar 07 - 09:52 AM
Bee 28 Mar 07 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 28 Mar 07 - 09:56 AM
M.Ted 28 Mar 07 - 10:13 AM
GUEST,Arkie 28 Mar 07 - 10:20 AM
GUEST,Arkie 28 Mar 07 - 10:21 AM
George Papavgeris 28 Mar 07 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,meself 28 Mar 07 - 10:44 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 28 Mar 07 - 10:53 AM
M.Ted 28 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,meself 28 Mar 07 - 12:51 PM
Little Hawk 28 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 28 Mar 07 - 02:57 PM
Declan 28 Mar 07 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,teachers pest 28 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,Gerry 28 Mar 07 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,meself 28 Mar 07 - 09:14 PM
gnu 28 Mar 07 - 09:32 PM
GUEST,L. Chisholm 07 Apr 07 - 01:40 PM
PSzymeczek 07 Apr 07 - 08:34 PM
GUEST,meself 07 Apr 07 - 08:59 PM
Tunesmith 08 Apr 07 - 04:28 AM
GUEST,meself 08 Apr 07 - 07:43 AM
Rusty Dobro 08 Apr 07 - 09:34 AM
AWG 08 Apr 07 - 10:13 AM
Greg B 08 Apr 07 - 01:45 PM
Tunesmith 08 Apr 07 - 03:22 PM
Little Hawk 08 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM
Lonesome EJ 08 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,meself 08 Apr 07 - 05:44 PM
GUEST,Guest, guest, guest 08 Apr 07 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,meself 08 Apr 07 - 05:53 PM
Little Hawk 08 Apr 07 - 09:11 PM
GUEST,Carl 09 Apr 07 - 07:29 PM
GUEST 09 Apr 07 - 07:32 PM
GUEST 09 Apr 07 - 07:34 PM
Little Hawk 09 Apr 07 - 08:46 PM
GUEST,Mr Vainly-Ironic 09 Apr 07 - 09:38 PM
George Papavgeris 10 Apr 07 - 05:29 AM
Janice in NJ 10 Apr 07 - 05:39 PM
GUEST,meself 10 Apr 07 - 05:43 PM
GUEST,Gerry 10 Apr 07 - 07:45 PM
AWG 10 Apr 07 - 08:25 PM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Apr 07 - 01:06 AM
Wordsmith 11 Apr 07 - 03:58 AM
GUEST,Tunesmith 11 Apr 07 - 04:30 AM
GUEST,meself 11 Apr 07 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Reemans 11 Apr 07 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 11 Apr 07 - 03:06 PM
GUEST,meself 11 Apr 07 - 03:36 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 11 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM
GUEST,Reemans 11 Apr 07 - 04:34 PM
GUEST,meself 11 Apr 07 - 04:54 PM
GUEST,Gerry 11 Apr 07 - 08:36 PM
GUEST,meself 11 Apr 07 - 08:44 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 12 Apr 07 - 03:52 AM
GUEST,meself 12 Apr 07 - 09:43 AM
GUEST,Reemans 12 Apr 07 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,meself 12 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM
GUEST,Carl 16 Apr 07 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,Carl 16 Apr 07 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,meself 16 Apr 07 - 08:24 PM
Little Hawk 17 Apr 07 - 02:34 AM
Bee 17 Apr 07 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,meself 17 Apr 07 - 06:12 PM
GUEST,Carl 17 Apr 07 - 06:21 PM
GUEST,meself 17 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,Carl 17 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM
GUEST,meself 17 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM
gnu 17 Apr 07 - 07:00 PM
GUEST,Carl 17 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM
Little Hawk 17 Apr 07 - 08:57 PM
Joe Offer 24 Aug 15 - 10:10 PM
Mrrzy 25 Aug 15 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 25 Aug 15 - 07:01 PM
Joe Offer 25 Aug 15 - 07:06 PM
GUEST,Pete from seven stars link 26 Aug 15 - 12:59 PM
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Subject: 'You're so vain'
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:11 AM

The thread about the Simon Sisters made me think of Carly's classic "You're So Vain". The line " You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you" always interested me because it seems to be a putting down "you" for thinking the song is about "him", but the song is about "you/him"!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain'
From: The Villan
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:19 AM

Your so vain


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:01 AM

The link from Villan to Carly Simon's "You're So Vain" page gives a final answer from Carly herself:

    USA Today - June, 2005

    "It's about Mark Felt!" Simon, 59, joked by phone Wednesday from her home in Martha's Vineyard, referring to the former FBI official who has said he was Deep Throat. You're So Vain was a No. 1 hit in January 1973, six months after the Watergate break-in that led to President Nixon's downfall.

    But unlike the Watergate principals, Simon says she'll never reveal the answer, not even when she or the song's subject dies. "I don't see why I ever would. What would it advance? I wrote that song in the days when people kept confidences to themselves, whereas now, people expose them so easily and readily for the benefit of their next movie sale."

    She finds it "bizarre" that fans are still speculating about her lyrics three decades later. "If people knew who it was to begin with, it might not have become a hit."

Now, there's a woman with class.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: MG John
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:20 AM

Joe,
I remember that song when it was first released. I first heard that at a new friend's back in January 1973. I personally think that it was one of Carly's finest songs. John.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:24 AM

Tunesmith's observation is very valid . The line he quotes is undoubtedly suppose to be a criticism, but confirms that the subject of the song is indeed correct to think the song is about him - and, in turn, is therefore maybe not so vain! I suggest that Carly does a rewrite of the lyrics and includes the line " You're not so vain for thinking this song is about you ".


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,buspassed
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:55 AM

Always thought it was dedicated to James Taylor.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 04:57 AM

I have always understood it as a double irony, intentionally written so to make that very point, Tunesmith. It's a rare writing trick, but great when you can pull it off; Carly does so in spades in this song.

The only other example of such exquisite irony I can think of is the 10CC hit of the mid-1970s: "I'm not in love" - when he clearly is. But there are a few others around, I just con't think of them rioght now.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:19 AM

Someone told me many years ago it was Mel Gibson but...who knows?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:30 AM

I think you mean Warren Beatty - Mel Gibson was but a lad when the song was written.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Keith
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:54 AM

Those Jagger backing vocals are quite distinctive. You can hear Mick's tones very clearly.

I know one or two musos who fit most of the description in the song, although none of them has yet flown up to Nova Scotia to observe a total eclipse of the sun (that I know of).

They probably think this post is about them...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:24 AM

There was a total eclipse of the sun visible in Nova Scotia in summer, 1972. A number of celebrities did fly to NS to view it, but I don't remember who they were - Warren Beatty may well have been one of them. Certainly some contemporary American artists had flown up to view and film it, but I doubt any of them were the song's object; just serves to indicate it was a well-attended event.

I've always liked the song, and thought the line was deliciously ironic.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 06:56 AM

Gosh, I had forgotten just how good those words are - reading them as text without the accompanying music brought them into strong focus again. What a brilliant songwriter she is -

Warren Beatty was always the name I heard bandied about as the most-likely candidate. You get the impression that this character has flown to the Nova Scotia eclipse more to be seen than to see. Every activity is tinged with that flash jet-set-ness that suggests a movie star, and the inward insecurity that goes with keeping your place as a celebrity.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:10 AM

Bonnie, no one flies to Nova Scotia 'to be seen' - we just don't have the necessary 'scene'. ;-)

I suspect the point of flying here to view the eclipse was meant (by Carly's subject) to indicate how interested and knowledgeable about cosmic events he was, a cerebral fellow, as opposed to being 'just a famous actor/musician/whatever', thus indicating his being a bit of a pompous ass.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:15 AM

Fair enough :-)    But... don't eclipses bring out all & sundry, simply because they're an Event? I keep thinking of that scene in Delores Claiborne!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 07:49 AM

True - and I liked that book, and the movie, very much - in fact, I think King may have been referencing the very same 1972 eclipse.

My strongest memory of the eclipse is of a certain egotistical minor American conceptual artist, who reportedly, without so much as a by-your-leave, trotted into a local farmer's cow field with telescopes and cameras, and was booted out with prejudice by the indignant farmer.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:32 AM

George P, I think you're wrong about the irony, as everything in the song points to the narrator believing that the subject of the song is indeed very vain. "I'm not in love", is different altogether, and belongs to a whole genre of songs - "She thinks I still care" is a classic example - that stretches back to heaven knows where.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:39 AM

"thus indicating his being a bit of a pompous ass" -

You would think so, wouldn't you? I know I did - and so did this interviewer - but not, apparently, Carly:


Bob Costas : ... Was it a single person or a composite of objectionable traits in a variety of people?

Carly: Hardly objectionable! I think it's a very attractive man. I think it's a very complicated man who is obviously concerned with his image, but obviously worthy of my love or my interest. I don't LOVE just anyone. You know, he's gotta have a certain amount of character. If he was only vain it would be boring, but there's a lot more to him. He hobknobs with the underworld.


Jeesh!

As for "a woman with class", read her comments about Warren Beatty in the Washington Post and Fame interviews ... On second thought, don't bother; get off this thread and go read something worthwhile.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:51 AM

Yes, I know I've got better things to do... but...

"In 1983, she told the Washington Post: 'It certainly sounds like it was about Warren Beatty. He certainly thought it was about him - he called me and said thanks for the song.' She didn't confirm that the song was about Beatty, although many have assumed it's about him because of his legendary vanity...

The closest Simon has come to pinning down her source material was in an interview in 1989. She reportedly acknowledged that the song is partly about Beatty, but he was just part of a composite of three men she knew while living in Los Angeles. In an interview with Charlie Rose in 2000, Simon noted that, 'Most songs are a composite' although she didn't elaborate on who the other two men might be."


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: bobad
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:52 AM

"Bonnie, no one flies to Nova Scotia 'to be seen'"

He would be going there to be seen by all the others who were going there to be seen. That's what they do.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bee
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:53 AM

meself, there's likely not a woman in the western world who hasn't at some time been in love with a man who's both vain and a bit of a pompous ass (whether Carly says so or not, the song suggests it to me). Doesn't mean the man has no good qualities - we're all flawed. I like the song, and always saw it as an amused and even affectionate look back at an affair. I can relate to the sentiments expressed, having had just such a relationship, long ago "when I was quite naive". I still think of him with affection - and amusement.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:56 AM

Well, of course, the narrator of the song ( Carly - we presume ) had an affair with the man, and so - even naive, at the time - must have thought he had something. And, one could put forward the view that the subject of the song isn't vain for a) as a celebrity, he must think about his image, and b) he is indeed very attractive ( for whatever reason) as "all the girls want to be his partner". But the narrator of the song definately thinks he's vain because if, we use the "I'm Not in Love" scenario, and she felt the opposite, then the song wouldn't make any sense.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:13 AM

The point of the song is that he doesn't hear what she is saying, and only thinks the song is about him because he is narcissistic, and thinks everything is about him. Got it?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:20 AM

I agree that it is a great song.   I have listened to it for over 30 years and still enjoy hearing it. And I think Carly had her tongue firmly planted in cheek when writing it.   I believe the irony was fully intended and no changes need to be made at all.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:21 AM

And I couldn't care less who the song was about.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:30 AM

Agree Arkie, to have the culprit named would be an anticlimax and would somehow let all those other b******s off the hook. Much better left generic.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:44 AM

"always saw it as an amused and even affectionate look back at an affair" -

Well, now - I always saw it more as resentful and scornful: once again, you've shown me what I know - first the stolen tools, then the jelly jars, now this!

Okay, next time I walk into a party, I'm definitely going to do it like I'm walking onto a yacht ... And I'm going to continue what I had thought a shameful habit, that of checking myself out in decorative mirrors ...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 10:53 AM

Well! I would guess that, for most people, the song would only work without the irony and double irony etc. I would say that for most people, the thing they like about the song is the fact that this once naive girl/women can now see the subject of the song for what he is - vain, shallow and full of himself, and that she can now articulate that for the whole world to hear! Now, how does the ironic version go? He's not vain. He's not full of himself. He's simply a misunderstood chap, and it's the narrator of the song that has lots of issues herself that she needs to resolve.

p.s. It's interesting that George P raised the subject of the ironic " I'm not in love", because Carly did a great version of the similar themed Hoagy Carmichael song " I get along without you very well". And, no! I haven't shot myself in the foot by mentioning this.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM

An interesting effect can be achieved by singing it in the first person.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 12:51 PM

"I'm so vain,/I prob'ly think this song is about me"?

(Grammar pedant alert: technically, the song is already in the first person).


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM

Like much of Carly's material, it's a very well written song. And she's very wise not to reveal who the song is about. Good for her.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 02:57 PM

Little Hawk: You're wrong! Well, according to a number of posters, it's very clear who the song is about: Carly Simon.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Declan
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 03:54 PM

I seem to remember that Jack Klugman and Tony Randall, who were the satrs of the "Odd couple" TV series made a recording of this song back in the 70s. Every time Klugman sang "You probably think this song is about you", Randall would reply "Isn't it?"


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,teachers pest
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM

The song is a real classic in the mould of Peter Sarstedt,"where do you go to."As for me,i fell in love with the song Aticipation after The Old Grey Whistle Test showed a clip of Carly.I took the day off just to order the album as an import.Probably not sent all the way from the States,as the guy just wanted to load the price a bit.did not not matter to me,the album was pure gold and still is to me.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 08:00 PM

I went to Nova Scotia to see the total eclipse of the Sun. Didn't fly a Lear jet, though, just organized a few of my college buddies into a driving expedition from Massachusetts up to Antigonish. I had been planning for years to see that eclipse. When I was a kid & reading lots of science stuff I came across a list of predicted eclipses & saw there was going to be one on my 21st birthday & decided I would go see it if at all possible.

It turned out to be a bit of a letdown. The sky was mostly cloudfree, but such clouds as there were moved in front of the sun just before totality and stayed there until just after. It was neat the way it suddenly got dark and all, but very disappointing not to see total phase.

Carly Simon went to my high school (a few years before me).


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:14 PM

"I went to Nova Scotia to see the total eclipse of the Sun. Didn't fly a Lear jet, though ... " - Okay, I guess the song wasn't about you then ...

Cross Gerry off the list!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: gnu
Date: 28 Mar 07 - 09:32 PM

Huh? It's Mick! No brainer.

Now, see if you can solve this musical triva..... "Starfucker" (Mick)... any ideas? Go on. Take a guess.

Um, yeah, I know, so don't bother. See ya when I see ya. Yer welcome for the warning.

g


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,L. Chisholm
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:40 PM

In 1972, Kris Kristofferson and coterie traveled to Antigonish, Nova Scotia. Antigonish was supposed to be the best site for viewing the total eclipse of the sun. My uncle in Antigonish, John Angus, met and talked with him briefly on Main Street and commented to me later "I think that was the most self-centered man I've ever met. If it wasn't about him, he had no interest."


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: PSzymeczek
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:34 PM

I saw something on TV last week where Warren Beatty said it was about him.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 08:59 PM

He's SO vain.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Tunesmith
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 04:28 AM

Of course, Carly's "vain person" could very well be a composite figure - artistic licence and all that. I case of building up a central figure by adding a bit of this character to a bit of that character. If it could be proved that Warren Beatty never went to Nova Scotia to watch the eclipse that wouldn't disprove that he wasn't Carly's main target.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 07:43 AM

'Carly's "vain person" could very well be a composite figure'

There certainly seems to be no shortage of 'vain persons' for her to take parts from ...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 09:34 AM

I've always thought it was about me, but I've got enough strength of character not to be vain.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 10:13 AM

Personally, I think the song is about noone in particular, its just a song with a 'get people talking' mystery to it. Simple as that. Not a bad tune, but garners far too much attention. But hey, maybe Carly knew what she was doing (controversy = record sales) Hmmmm....the 70's version of Brittney Spears... I wonder.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Greg B
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:45 PM

Seems like the 'wife of a close friend' might be a shot at Beatty.

Then again, it may be an amalgam of various show-biz types to
whom the song is directed.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Tunesmith
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:22 PM

There's a feature on Carly in this week's Radio Times ( UK tv/radio listings mag)which includes a section on the possible identity of the "You're So Vain" mystery man.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM

I suspect it was a composite of a few individuals. Kristofferson, Jagger, and Warren Beatty all seem to fit the song perfectly, so I'd bet there's a little piece of all of them in there. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and give Warren the biggest piece. LOL!

To compare Carly Simon to Brittney Spears, however, is kind of like comparing a magnificently painted oil portrait by one of the masters to one of those black velvet paintings of Elvis you see in the dollar store. ;-)


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM

This song had one of my favorite mondegreens in it...
"You're where you should be all the time
and when you're not
you're with some underworld spy
or the wife of a postman, wife of a postman."

An interesting element is the line "you gave away the things you loved
and one of them was me". This puts the rest of the song in context of a revenge song against a lover who jilted her, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 05:44 PM

Yes, but look at her own comments about it.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Guest, guest, guest
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 05:52 PM

But can you believe her own comments?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 05:53 PM

Did you read them?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 09:11 PM

Better than I can believe the comments of the peanut gallery, yeah. Carly Simon strikes me as someone who's been able to look back on her past loves with a good deal of humor and good feeling.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 07:29 PM

Total eclipse of Sun in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada was March 7, 1970


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 07:32 PM

Warren Beatty also has close ancestrial roots to Nova Scoti, if it matters..


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 07:34 PM

www.space.com/spacewatch/050408_solar_eclips confirms the date.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 08:46 PM

I'm betting on Warren, like I said. Not that Jagger and Kristofferson don't have the credentials...but can they match Warren with his apricot scarf? I don't think so! Just think what it would have been like, though, to get all three of them in a room at the same time...along with just one gorgeous girl to impress...

Hooo-weee. It would have been something to witness, I'm sure. Enough to make your head swim.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Mr Vainly-Ironic
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 09:38 PM

"I have always understood it as a double irony, intentionally written so to make that very point, Tunesmith. It's a rare writing trick, but great when you can pull it off; Carly does so in spades in this song.

The only other example of such exquisite irony I can think of is the 10CC hit of the mid-1970s:

"I'm not in love" - when he clearly is.

But there are a few others around, I just con't think of them rioght now."



hers another one for you..

"I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts".. of course I clearly haven't

..and who has ?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 05:29 AM

Ah, but who's to say you haven't? Saying so is not enough. Prove it!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 05:39 PM

According to the Wikipedia: Recently, Beatty admitted that he in fact believes he is the subject of the song, saying: "Let's be honest. That song was about me." Even if the song had not originally been about Warren Beatty, that remark proves that he is so vain that the song is about him now!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 05:43 PM

Or at least: so vain he PROBABLY (make that definitely) THINKS the song is about him.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 07:45 PM

There was an eclipse in March 1970 but I think the one referred to in the song was the one on 10 July 1972.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: AWG
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 08:25 PM

There was an eclipse in 1963 in Canada, can anyone tell me the date ??


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 01:06 AM

Type
eclipse Canada 1963
into Google and you'll get any amount of information you want. It was 20 July.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Wordsmith
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:58 AM

Thanks to Little Hawk for standing up for Carly vs. Britney and for doing it so eloquently. I was miffed when I saw the original comparison. Britney can barely read, let alone write songs?

As for the "mystery man?" I think Chevy Chase could be included in the composite. I watched him as she (Carly) sang it on SNL. I also vote for Beatty and Kristofferson.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:30 AM

Of course, this thread has drifted away from the original question. But, maybe not, because if the vain person in the song is a composite figure then anyone who thinks the song is definitely about them - and them alone - is indeed vain.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:18 AM

Okay - I guess I AM a LITTLE vain ...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Reemans
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 02:23 PM

Why is this pop song of so much interest to Mudcateers?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:06 PM

Because it's great!!!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:36 PM

But more to the point - in involves celeb. gossip -


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM

Sod celeb gossip!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Reemans
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:34 PM

Eggzakterley!!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:54 PM

Tunesmith: "If it could be proved that Warren Beatty never went to Nova Scotia to watch the eclipse that wouldn't disprove that he wasn't Carly's main target."

Hmmm ...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:36 PM

Reemans asks, "Why is this pop song of so much interest to Mudcateers?"

A couple of days ago, at the National Folk Festival in Canberra, Australia, 2000 folkies packed a venue to hear the finals of the Sound Of Music competition. Why would anyone sing songs from a Hollywood musical at a folk festival? why would it be pretty nearly the most popular event of the whole weekend?

Answer: folkies are people of diverse interests. But even in these diverse interests they have some taste and discernment. Sure, You're So Vain is a pop song. But let's look just at the one line that's received some discussion here - "You flew your Lear jet to Nova Scotia/ To see the total eclipse of the Sun." Now, pop songs generally don't concern themselves with Lear jets, or Nova Scotia, or total eclipses. That doesn't make it Shakespeare, but it does make it something out of the ordinary for a pop song.

Also, Carly Simon was a folkie before she turned pop, and she had a fine voice, and she was good-looking. What more reason do us aging boomers need for talking about a song?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:44 PM

Actually, I always thought the song was more silly than anything else. But I've gotten a kick out of the celeb gossip that comprises about 90% of this thread ... Well, okay - I just took a glance through - more like 80% ...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 03:52 AM

Well, I started the thread, and I was annoyed when it was hijacked by posters wondering who the subject of the "you're so vain" attack was aimed at.BUT,maybe, all this "celeb" talk has answered my question, because the only way Carly's line " You're you vain, you probably think this song is about you" could make sense, is if the song isn't about anybody! So that if anyone thinks it is about them, they are indeed being vain.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:43 AM

You know, that line always gives my head a twist, every time I hear it. And having read Carly's remarks in the interviews linked above, I'm wondering if the paradox is based on a difference in male and female reactions to male vanity. Because, it seems to me - correct me if I'm wrong guys - that to guys generally, male vanity is regarded as contemptible, whereas, extrapolating from Carly's remarks, women are more likely to find male vanity kinda cute, or charming. So, paradoxically, the subject of the song is more likely to be TOO vain to think the song is about him - because what guy wants to admit to that kind of vanity? (Okay, Warren Beatty, apparently!).


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Reemans
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 01:37 PM

Just another bitter woman taking a sideswipe at men in general, where we cannot respond.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM

In the interviews, she doesn't sound bitter at all. Course, maybe the money eased the pain ...


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:12 PM

When was the song released?
Could there be a record of lear jet flights into Halifax Airport on the sWhen was the song released?uspect date?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:15 PM

Sorry for mixed up text.
When was the song released?
Could there be an airport record (Halifax Airport) for a lear jet on the suspect dates? It is a small airport, unlikely to be many lear jets land there. Then one could look at the owner or passenger list?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:24 PM

Do we really, really, CARE that much?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:34 AM

I don't think Carly Simon is the least bit bitter about her numerous love affairs. She seems to have enjoyed them all quite a bit. That doesn't mean she can't write an ironical song about one. She's not much inclined toward bitterness, I've noticed.

If you want really bitter songs about love affairs, check out Bob Dylan or Alanis Morissette or any number of songs by various loud longhaired rock bands.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Bee
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 05:18 PM

"You know, that line always gives my head a twist, every time I hear it. And having read Carly's remarks in the interviews linked above, I'm wondering if the paradox is based on a difference in male and female reactions to male vanity. Because, it seems to me - correct me if I'm wrong guys - that to guys generally, male vanity is regarded as contemptible, whereas, extrapolating from Carly's remarks, women are more likely to find male vanity kinda cute, or charming." - meself

Well, speaking purely from a personal perspective, I find some kinds of male vanity very cute. There's a certain joy to be had observing a young man showing off a little, maybe the shirt sleeves rolled up just so to accent the bicep, or a 'hat cocked right', or a hundred other little things that are done by guys to be a little peacocky. It's usually so overt and a little naive (meaning innocent), or seems so. ;-)


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:12 PM

Well - there ya go!


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:21 PM

What's wrong with a someone simply feeling jilted and seeking an outlet by singing about? Seems logical After all, it has happened to many. After all, she indicated that she reveal the name for money for charity.

Trying to speculate on all types of meaning on a simple message is a bit much.I havent seen much evidence that Ms Simon was that "deep" in other songs. An example, "I haven't got time for the pain" , Message,She wanted to move on period. Is there need to speculate if she is sending a broad message for future man in this?

Reminds me of Bob Dylan. Many people spending too much time determining the underlying meaning to his songs. He later says something like, "Hey the message was simple, much like I sang in the song".


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

"What's wrong with a someone simply feeling jilted and seeking an outlet by singing about?"

Nothing at all wrong with that - but, if we are going to take the writers' comments at face value, she implies in one of the interviews linked above, that the song is NOT about "feeling jilted" - if by that you mean feeling embittered, angry, resentful, sorrowful ...

"Many people spending too much time determining the underlying meaning to his songs."

That surely is a matter of opinion.

"He later says something like, "Hey the message was simple, much like I sang in the song"."

As is that. If he does say something like that (which I doubt), it's his opinion.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM

If not jilted, It is common for people, and she is just a person to simply get ones feelings out. Why not?
If she meant this, Maybe its just her opinion?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM

Well, presumably she IS writing out of some kind of feelings. And, yes, maybe she's in denial about the nature of those feelings.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: gnu
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 07:00 PM

Hmmmm.... I tried. Oh well. Fact is, Tunesmith was bang on in the first post.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Carl
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM

FYI, One Bob Dylan interview, His Chronicles volume one is also a good source for his views on false meaning givein to his songs.

June 12, 2005
Bob Dylan appeared on 60 Minutes in his first television interview in nearly 20 years. (CBS)

What was the toughest part for him personally?
"It was like being in an Edgar Allan Poe story. And you're just not that person everybody thinks you are, though they call you that all the time," says Dylan. "'You're the prophet. You're the savior.' I never wanted to be a prophet or savior. Elvis maybe. I could easily see myself becoming him. But prophet? No."

He may not have seen himself as the voice of the '60s generation, but his songs were viewed as anthems that sparked a moment.

"My stuff were songs, you know? They weren't sermons," says Dylan. "If you examine the songs, I don't believe you're gonna find anything in there that says that I'm a spokesman for anybody or anything really."

"But they saw it," says Bradley.

"They must not have heard the songs," says Dylan.

"It's ironic, that the way that people viewed you was just the polar opposite of the way you viewed yourself," says Bradley.

"Isn't that something," says Dylan. Dylan did almost anything to shatter the lofty image many people had of him. He writes that he intentionally made bad records, and once poured whiskey over his head in public.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:57 PM

Yeah, he didn't want to be used as other people's "saviour" or their political icon. Seems to me that he mainly just wanted to play live music, that's all, and to do it well. He did admire Woody Guthrie and many other classic musicians tremendously, and in his early career you can see him adopting very Guthrie-esque themes in his songs. Woody Guthrie came across as a social crusader in many songs, so it's not surprising that Dylan did also, considering how much he patterned his early career on Woody Guthrie. The fact that Dylan's early career happened at a time of great historical ferment among young people intent on challenging and changing the political and social system, and at the time of a very unpopular foreign war, was what catapulted Dylan, quite unwillingly, into the (perceived) role of "leader" or "prophet" of the youth movement.

As such, it must have all taken him rather by surprise.


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Subject: ADD: You're So Vain (Carly Simon)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 10:10 PM

Somehow, it doesn't seem right that we, a friggin' lyrics site, should have this friggin' thread, with 90 friggin' messages about the friggin' song, and not have the friggin' lyrics. And I really think we should dedicate this song with all our love to Gargoyle. So, as a public service, here they are:

YOU'RE SO VAIN
(Carly Simon)

You walked into the party like you were walking onto a yacht
Your hat strategically dipped below one eye
Your scarf it was apricot
You had one eye in the mirror as you watched yourself gavotte
And all the girls dreamed that they'd be your partner
They'd be your partner, and...

You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you
You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you
Don't you? don't you?

You had me several years ago when I was still quite naive
Well you said that we made such a pretty pair
And that you would never leave
But you gave away the things you loved and one of them was me
I had some dreams, they were clouds in my coffee
Clouds in my coffee, and...

You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you
You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you
Don't you? don't you? don't you?

I had some dreams they were clouds in my coffee
Clouds in my coffee, and...
You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you
You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you
Don't you? don't you?

Well I hear you went up to Saratoga and your horse naturally won
Then you flew your Lear Jet up to Nova Scotia
To see the total eclipse of the sun
Well you're where you should be all the time
And when you're not you're with
Some underworld spy or the wife of a close friend
Wife of a close friend, and...

You're so vain, you probably think this song is about you
You're so vain, I'll bet you think this song is about you
Don't you? don't you? don't you?

Carly Simon, 1973

Source: http://www.metrolyrics.com/youre-so-vain-lyrics-carly-simon.html


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 05:56 PM

Crowds in my pockets, if we're listing mondegreens.


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 07:01 PM

Welll, thats identified a few misheard lyrics......


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Aug 15 - 07:06 PM

I didn't find any mistakes in the lyrics - everyone agree it's OK?


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Subject: RE: 'You're so vain' (Carly Simon)
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 26 Aug 15 - 12:59 PM

Sorry, I meant ME mishearing. For example, I thought it was ........watch yourself go by....


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