12 strings and concert tuning

Subject: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: GUEST,3sheds
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:50 AM

I know that tradiionally 12 strings were tuned low but I'd like to trawl the experiances of 12 string owners as to tuning to concert.
I've had a Seagull SM12 from new(92)which I've kept in open G two frets low (openF)strung with the heaviest I can find 13/56 with out any problems I think I've adjusted the truss rod once. I've recently bought a Guild F30 the previous owner used light strings10/47 and religiously kept it two frets low.Since the Guild is built like (and weighs the same as) the proverbial brick outhouse I'm tempted to keep it in concert, is this wise?

Andy

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:57 AM

I'd be inclined to play safe and capo up accordingly.

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:58 AM

Me too. An exploding 12 string is not a pretty sight.

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: HiHo_Silver
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:19 AM

Ther were some 12 string guitars built and recommended to be tuned to concert pitch with the use of light gauge strings. It escapes my memory as to which brand names. I believe you will find that Martin 12 strings are designed for concert pitch. Also believe
Takamine built a 12 string for the same standards. Guild could very well be also. No doube these company web sites would give you this info.

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM

I happily use(d) 10/47 at concert on
(1) My Bjarton (Hagstrom) BJ12E - I felt nervous with 11s on it in concert
(2) An utterly disgusting old Framus held together mostly with bolts and a home-made bridge doctor
(3) A modern Yamaha which is fine with the 10s but went a bit banana-shaped when the previous owner put 13s (on a 12- he had hands like tyre fitting machinery!) on it
(4) A punt paddle that is so bad I don't even take it camping, and won't until I have figured out how to sort its action - a neck set would be good, but way too much money for that heap of junk.

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: jiva
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 11:07 AM

Over the years have used various 12-strings including:
Eko Ranger (yes! my first guitar)
Various Yamahas
Bozo
Fylde

All were strung with light gauge .010/.047 and all kept at concert pitch.

Current 12s are:
30+ year old Yamaha FG630
Taylor 855

Both are kept at concert pitch with light gauge .010/.047 Elixir strings, and both are occasionally played with 11th and 12th strings dropped to D.

jiva (Jimmy & Val)
www.jiva.co.uk

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 11:18 AM

I have a mid 60's Guild 12 string. I play light strings and tune to concert pitch. I used to tune down a step and capo. My luthier at Elderly Instruments asked me why I did that. He said that the instrument is over 30 years old. If the neck was going to move, it would have done so long ago. I suppose if I went to heavier strings, then I might tune low/capo, but my old Guild has an action to die for, and a voice that is amazing.

Appollonio might be a different matter. Nick uses very little bracing, so that might make a difference.

And I know what you mean by the weight of these Guilds. Try doing a four hour, standing up gig with one.

Le gach dea-mhéin,      

Mick

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: ThreeSheds
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:03 PM

Its a bit of a suprise how many 12 string player have more than one 12 string, my excuse is that I like differant tunings.
Big Mick, I dont understand the Appollonio bit, also if you can stand for 4 hours playing one of these brutes the weight cant be a problem to you, I'm worried about putting my shoulder out when seated and lifting the beast of its stand!!!

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:07 PM

LOL, ThreeSheds. They are a heavy mug. For a while after my fav six string got demolished by United Airlines, I was forced to use only my twelve string for concerts with my band. We are an uptempo Irish band, so by the end of these concerts, I was exhausted.

The comment about the Appollonio's deals with the bracing in them. It is my understanding (and I stand ready to be corrected) is that Nick A. uses considerably less bracing in his beautiful instruments to enhance the top vibration. I have heard that one must be very careful with these babies. But they are a wonderful sounding instrument.

Le gach dea-mhéin,      

Mick

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:27 PM

Many are indeed designed to be at concert but an awful lot of folks like the sound tuned lower with heavier gauge strings. AS Mick mentioned though, do have a care for what the builder thought in his design. A lot of Twelves are designed NOT to be tuned to standard and DO have their best sounds lower. Obviously the proper setup is critical no matter what you do.

Talk to the builder/manufacturer for their suggestions and of course you'll get some good info around here as well. Problem is you will also get some erroneous info around here too...LOL.

We had a really wonderful member around here, an excellent picker and fine teacher as well named Rick Fielding who died a few years ago (much too young). When he was a young man he had an experience where he believed the wrong guy about a new Twelve and the result of doing so. Here's the tale as Rick told it:

"Each of my 12 strings has it's own little memory but the worst was "Pedro" the Mexican built beauty that I bought when I was about twenty. The salesman said it was built to be tuned to pitch and I foolishly believed him. Now the problem was that my girlfriend at the time felt (justifiably so) that we should be saving our money, so when I purchased "Pedro" I snuck him into a closet for the night, planning to tell her about it the next day.(after I had thought up some story to justify my purchase) About 5am, a noise like a bazooka woke everyone up with a start in our communal rooming house. People were searching everywhere for the source of the explosion......but in my heart I knew what it was. I let someone else find the broken pieces of wood and wire, but I had to own up to it. Needless to say I got yelled at, AND lost Pedro one day after buying him!"

Spaw

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 11:52 PM

About 20 years ago I bought a new 12 string. I told the man running the music store that I wanted to tune it to concert pitch. He said that he had a FG512 Yammie that had a lifetime guarantee. I liked it and so bought it. I kept her 440'd ever since and it still has a lower action than my three 6 stringers. I never used the warrenty but I believe that Yamaha still stands behind it.

Subject: RE: 12 strings and concert tuning
From: Songster Bob
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 12:12 AM

Most modern factory 12-strings are made for concert pitch with light strings. I always thought Martins were made for lowered pitch, but never liked 'em enough tuned either high or low, always preferring Guilds. These days you have Takamines and Yamahas and 'tother Japanese ones that also sound OK at concert.

That said, I much like the boom of a lower tuning, so I use medium strings and never tune to concert (well, that's not accurate -- my cheap Brownsville electric solid-body 12 is tuned to concert pitch, or was before I hung it on the wall and then got so much junk stacked in front of it I can't even get it down to check, alas).

In any case, light strings and modern factory instruments will "take" concert pitch, if you want it.

This is not necessarily true of luthier-made gems like Appolonios or the like. Those you'd better ask the maker before tuning up.

Bob