Why are folkies scruffy

Subject: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM

I want to know why folkies are scruffy. Those tatty, washed out, far too big, 'colourful' clothes do no favours for anyone. Non folkies just think we look ridiculous and I also think a large proportion of folkies look ridiculous as well! Yes, I can here you say 'clothes are not important it the person that counts' and I agree to a point. but do we really have too look like we a living on the streets.....

After all most folkies are well off professional people! I simply don't understand why they have too look like they are on the dole.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:57 PM

Why do assholes start threads like this?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

Now, now, Bruce ~ calm down!

When I see something like this, I assume the person is addressing an issue that exists in the UK. We North Americans are not in a position to judge whether the person is full of it or not.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Big Phil
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:01 PM

guestpeas&chips
It is what is in the clothes that matters, not the clothes.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:02 PM

Oh. OK. I didn't know he was British. My apologies, Guest piss & chips. If I'd been aware I would have called you an arsehole.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:07 PM

Let's face it Peace. Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence. I'll assume that dressing nicely is one of them also.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John J
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:10 PM

A valid point Peas & Chips.

JJ

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Surreysinger
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:13 PM

"Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence."

Hmmm... fighting talk, methinks... I can see a range war developing here. Obviously one thing folks in America don't always do better is spell (or maybe type)??? Runs off to hide.....

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:17 PM

You don't want range wars don't start 'em. That was the intent of this thread, wazzint it?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:23 PM

On the dole? There's a big difference from being on the dole and shelling out $30 for a tie.... $30 for a noose... and $300, at least, for a monkey suit? Folkies, and just plain folks, have better things to spend money on than fancy clothes.

Mimimum $40 for a dress shirt.... $4 for a cotton t-shirt. I knows who I wants in my band of merry minstrels.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:23 PM

I suppose that on both sides of the pond, "folkies" are less likely than the general population to wear starched collars and ties, to shave their entire faces more than once a day, etc. In other words, a severely anal-retentive personality seems somehow to be incompatible with an interest in this particular hazily-defined art form.

Is it legimate to try discussing why this might be the case?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: growler
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:24 PM

Because I am

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM

Generalisations are not always accurate. I really don't think that folkies are, generally, more scruffy than the rest of the population. In my travels I've met some very glamorous folkies and quite a number who could be considered flamboyant in their dress. I've also seen a lot of 'scruffy' non-folkies, in pubs, on the streets, all over the place. I am English and now live in the USA so can speak with experience of both sides of the Pond.

I suppose that the 'ridiculous' label could be aimed at any proportion of the public that 'WE' don't belong to, from goths right up to Eton schoolboys. It all depends on your own point of view. I think that it also shows one up as being a bit of a snob in reality and yes, what matters is the person, not the clothes.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:30 PM

ONE

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Mr Tidytackle
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:31 PM

I'm a naturist folkie




and I shave everything

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for sharing.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:33 PM

Bad spelling can be found on both sides of the pond. Check the first post.

This reminds me of a line from the film, Father Goose. The professor was fired from university for refusing to wear a tie. His comment was,
"I think what is in a man's heart is more important than what's around his neck".

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:40 PM

'Yes, I can here you say 'clothes are not important it's the person that counts' and I agree to a point'

and I really do agree but why do they revel in looking as though they belong in a charity shop. And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:42 PM

Guest peas & chips - so how are trolls dressing these days?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest chips & peas
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

a bit like folkies

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,KateG , with an eaten cookie
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

You object to women with beards?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest chips & peas
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:45 PM

yes and hairy legs and armpits!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:51 PM

How sad!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Singing Referee
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM

"Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence."

Not spelling though!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Deckman
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:54 PM

In my case it's because I spent all my serious money on vintage Martins! Bob

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:56 PM

I want to know why folkies are scruffy. Those tatty, washed out, far too big, 'colourful' clothes do no favours for anyone.

A somewhat sweeping generalisation. and like all generalisations, it has a grain of truth and is plain wrong at the same time.

From what I see folkies seem to display the same range of dress from mega tidy to downright scruffy as the rest of the population with a skewing towards informal dress. Dressing informally is not the same as being scruffy and it is possible that some who have day jobs that more or less oblige them to dress in suits and ties (or the female equivalent) are more than happy to put something less formal on when the opportunity presents itself.

Certainly being retired it is a pleasure not to have to wear a jacket and tie, and I don't unless I have to, but that does not necessarily mean I am scruffy.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 03:57 PM

Now people have accused my Geoff of many things - being scruffy isn't one of them. Colourful yes! One thought is that folies dress to suit the environment they're in. If I'm camping in a field and sitting in a pub all day I am not going to wear a tailored suit - like wise if I attend an interview I don't turn up in my tiedye long frock! Are we confusing casual with scruffy?? Judging by the queues for showers they are not dirty either.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:01 PM

"and I really do agree but why do they revel in looking as though they belong in a charity shop. And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year! "

I revise my earlier poinion. Forget asshole and arsehole: dipshit idiot comes to mind. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:05 PM

When you haven't gotmuch money,you look after the children first and you take whats left.

Its also more comfortable not to wear collar and tie, Did that for too many years and now I don't have a job, I don't have to conform to what society tells me I have to do.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

Guest – Have you considered for INSTANCE going up to one of the "scruffy ones" and telling them face to face that they need to spruce up a little bit? I'm sure they would take it well. They might even start offering you some image consulting fees. Or you could stage the first Mudcat fashion show. That ought to go over really well.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:17 PM

He can't post under his own name. You think he's got the stones to face anyone? Fuckin' thread's a waste. I'm out.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: gnu
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:18 PM

Hehehehe. Well, the old saying is actually correct... Clothes DO make the man (person).

I went to another city a while back to a headhunter firm for "management testing" (read psychological head game tests) for a job I applied for. I wore a nice grey sweater over a red golf shirt and (new) black pants, and, of course, big hulkin work boots. Hey... it was a three hour drive. But, I looked good, I THOUGHT!!

I guess not, though. When I arrived at the hotel here in town for the formal interview with the big brass (apparentley, they didn't find anything in the psych tests), the 2IC from the headhunter's office did not recognize me in a brand new suit, shirt and tie, picked out for me by the "nicest" chap at the store I bought it at three days before the interview.

Now, what has that got to do with folikes? SFA, really. Clothes may make the man (person), but, the music is the man (person).

Of course, I've seldom seen a whore without makeup. Nothing like a coat of paint to spruce up an old barn. Whitewas is better than no wash.... help me out, eh... I am running out of old folk sayings.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

A stitch in time is a half dozen of the other.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Shaneo
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:26 PM

When my shirt was always hanging out , my wife gave me grief , now it's a fashion , my hair is still all over the place but now it also is a fashion to have hair like mine , the same about shaving , now it's a fashion , so we folkies start trends.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Scoville
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:40 PM

GUEST sounds like an uptight, overgroomed, bore. Suit jackets and stiff collars get in the way when you play, anyway, and makeup is a pain to maintain at hot outdoor festivals.

Besides, I like a guy who looks comfortable. Give me flannel shirts and overalls any day.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:43 PM

I am just a natural slob. I don't have to work at it and I don't have a particular philosopohy that thinks it is a good idea. I do think some is cultural..some cultures think it is admirable to dress up and some think it is a sin (I come from the latter)..and leads to putting on airs, enticing the opposite sex, etc. mg

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:47 PM

Gosh - I've always worn handmade Armani, Hickey Freeman or Oxxford suits on stage. With a vest for capos and picks. I just assumed that y'all did the same thing.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

Well, I used to. But people laughed. No one told me velour was passe.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

This reminds of a talent show on UK tv many years wherein Lonnie Donegan critised a rock band for dressing like they'd just stepped off a building site! My sympathies were with the band - not that boring old fart Mr Donegan!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

Because we are saving for that Martin D-100 instead of frittering away our money like this...

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/fortune/0704/gallery.pimpmyjet.fortune/index.html?cnn=yes

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

We are scruffy because we can be.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:52 PM

o tempora, o mores

G.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:53 PM

That's one way to find out who gives a flyin' f#ck.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: skipy
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:09 PM

I often take a pride in how I look at a festival, that is if I am in dressing up mode. The rest of the year I usually look like a tramp & I have no problem with that!
Skipy

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 05:39 PM

I kind of take pride in always looking (what I consider to be reasonably....) nice.......it makes me feel better. But I still love folk music so who gives a damn?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:09 PM

Why do chimpanzees have fleas? Why does the grass grow so high?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:30 PM

The reason folkies look scruffy is the same reason why we drive ten-year-old cars. It's because we're too busy playing music to watch a lot of television. As a result, we don't see the advertisements telling us how unsexy we are because we don't dress in the latest fashions and drive the newest cars.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

Well, peas and chips, which "folkies" are you speaking of? That's quite a generalization.

Speaking particularly of the Sixties, but this is also what I observe now:   I knew folk singers who wanted to go for the "folk" image (whatever that is), and even though they usually dressed reasonably well most of the time, if they had a performance coming up, they'd put on something scruffy looking (patched plaid shirt, worn-out jeans, etc.). But these were not the rule. Most of the performers I knew, including those singing in coffeehouses, dressed fairly well, if informally:   clean shirt, clean slacks; women singers often in skirts and blouses or sweaters. But coffeehouses tended to be fairly informal anyway. Although there was one coffeehouse where I sang a lot that drew the "after-show crowd," and it was not unusual to see a few tuxedos and formals late in the evening—in the audience, but not on the singers.

I am a city kid, and never tried to con anyone into thinking that I am a member of "the folk" (again, whatever that is). In fact, although "generically," most people probably think of me as a "folk singer," I do not. I sing songs to the accompaniment of a guitar. It just happens that most of the songs I sing are folk songs. But that's not all I sing. Borrowing a leaf from Richard Dyer-Bennet's book (he eschewed the sobriquet "folk singer" and referred to himself as "The Twentieth Century Minstrel"), I regard myself not so much as a folk singer, but as a modern-day minstrel or troubadour (although I don't have quite as much hair as that fellow—I'm clean-shaven, which blows another stereotyped "folk singer" image). I'm a professional musician (people pay me) and I try to act like one.

When I sang in coffeehouses, I usually dressed in shirt and slacks, often wearing a dark turtleneck comme ça (having been told by a number of female friends that I look good in turtlenecks). When I did concerts (rather than emulating Richard Dyer-Bennet by wearing a tuxedo or white tie and tails), I often wore a white shirt and tie, grey flannel slacks, and a navy-blue blazer (like THIS—but that's not me, of course). Not quite "formal," but hardly "scruffy." I consider it a matter of showing respect for my audiences.

Bob Nelson (Deckman—we were a duo for a while back then and still perform together from time to time) always dresses well when he performs; generally casually (shirt and slacks), but never scruffy. Patti McLaughlin, with whom I used to perform often, generally wore a very nice-looking skirt and sweater combination. Judy Flenniken (another singing partner), when doing concerts, frequently wore a gold lamé cocktail dress (sumpin sorta like THIS). Trés chic.

So "scruffy folkies," like THIS or THIS is a pretty broad generalization.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 06:36 PM

I think this question deserves a legit answer. Folk music has always been associated with working-class or rural people. It's been a contrast to the glitzy and glamorous approach of the conventional music biz.

Actually, this was a complaint by the late Lee Hays of the Weavers who thought that it was insulting to working-class rural people to insist that folk singers wear overhauls or work clothes on stage. Growing up in a folk tradition, Lee noted that the country people always dressed up when going to public functions. They wouldn't be caught dead in their work clothes.

Later, when the Folk Revival (Scare) took place, the uniform of the "folk singer" became the work clothes of the rural poor. It became an affectation.

I've noticed that pictures of Leadbelly, Earl Scruggs, A.P.Carter and many other folk singer/instrumentalists show them in suits and ties.

Many of the clothes worn by traditional American folk singers from the 20's and 30's were not high fashion. They were poor but they tried to look as good as they could under the circumstances. Many old photos show the men in suits and ties.

In the Sixties, the suit and tie became a symbol of the elite and the styles of dress changed to accomodate the mistaken idea of the clothes of the working class, mainly worn by those of the upper middle class, namely, jeans, overhauls, raggedy shirts, etc.

The Folk Scare brought about a new wardrobe and has remained.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mickey191
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:13 PM

I think the general population "dresses down"-many look like they've wrestled an alligator, many look as if they don't own a comb. I do loathe the baggy pants look which is now showing up in toddler's catalogues. Conversely, teenage girls with low slung jeans where one can see their crack, is the rage. Used to be one could only see the plumber's crack when he was working under your sink!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 08:29 PM

It's traditional. And we're into tradition.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 08:33 PM

Leadbelly.

Woody Guthrie and Leadbelly

In a book somewhere, I have a photo of Richard Dyer-Bennet and Leadbelly (both nattily dressed in suits and ties) playing and singing a duet. Man, I wish I could have heard that! I think the pic was taken at the 1946 Swarthmore Folk Festival. Dyer-Bennet and Leadbelly, it seems, were good friends. Dyer-Bennet, who performed at the 1945 festival, suggested that they get Leadbelly for the '46 festival, which they did.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 08:36 PM

It's other things, too. In my youth when I went to church, I got my ears washed, nailks scrubbed, two layers of skin rubbed from my face, and I was shoe-horned into a pair of dress pant, a white shirt and a tie. I see many people today attending church in street clothes. What used to be ain't anymore. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing--I'm just saying it is.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mickey191
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:04 PM

Yes Peace--Curch and also the Broadway Theatre audience has changed- most look like they're ready to wash the car. It used to be a grand occasion-a form of respect for those toiling on stage. Now first row inhabitants sometimes put their feet up on the stage.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:16 PM

Folkies have a higher standard of ethics and as a result do not profit from insider trading such as the small Germantown MD drug testing company that today was offered a buy out by Roche Switzerland at $53.84 a share which was double what it was yesterday, or folkies will not knowingly profit from business ventures such as havesting white birch trees for free near the restricted Chernobyl plant in Russia and selling them to Fresh Foods as European White Birch fireplace logs at a dollar a pound, or folkies will not invest in Halliburton or Carlyle right before another Bush invasion. Nor will folkies engage in predatory lending scams and blow town.

Folkies tend to try to reap a meager profit from poverty, war and injustice since it is what they know best.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:34 PM

I mind the time when a lady would put her hair up in curlers the night before, spend two hours on make-up, don a dress of the latest Paris fashion, set off the elegant beauty of her swan-like neck with a necklace of pearls, place the latest little pillbox hat on her head at just the proper angle, pull on a pair of elbow-length white gloves, slip her nyloned feet into high-heeled shoes, give herself a once-over in the mirror for the twentieth time - pushing a stray curl back into place - take her shiny leather handbag in hand, look in the mirror again - and then, if she was satisfied with what she saw, and only then, did she consider herself ready to for an afternoon of mud-wrestling!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:36 PM

Heck, I dress fairly nicely if I'm going to be on stage. Jeans with no holes in them, workboots that have never really been worked in, and a shirt with a collar. What else could anyone ask for? It's just a guy playing a guitar at a folk festival, not a lawyer addressing the Supreme Court. If I wanted to play dress-up I'd play at Renaissance Faires.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:04 AM

"and I really do agree but why do they revel in looking as though they belong in a charity shop. And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year!"

...another male chauvinist asshole! Oh wait, let me get my pumps and red bustiere for you out of my campsite tent. Gotta please those arrogant white males.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:07 AM

"pumps and red bustiere"

I'm lost. What the hell is she talking about?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:11 AM

shoes, brucie and a corset

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:12 AM

Thank you. What's a corset? I know what shoes are.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:24 AM

I did not imply that we should wear collars and ties or starched shirts or suits (I personally don't own any nor do I own any expensive labels). I do however think we should take pride in our appearance. The scruffy people do Folk Music no favours. Non folkies think we are a joke and that opinion has a knock on effect on the music.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:36 AM

What you did was make a sweeping statement, to which all reasonable people rightly took offence.
G.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas and ship
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:47 AM

I'm not worried about causing offence. I don't understand why people can't make the best of them selves. You have to admit a lot of them do look like a bag of poo.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mo the caller
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:55 AM

Maybe we look as if we dress from charity shops because we hate waste and Do buy from charity shops, or keep wearing things that other people would throw out.

The folk world and the consumer society may not share the same values. I know which I prefer.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:59 AM

Lets clear this charity shop thing up - over the years I have bought clothes from charity shops but not the sort that make me look SCRUFFY!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:03 AM

I will put the wrapping on my body, which keeps it warm and comfortable. If that offends anyone else's aesthetic sensibilities, then hard luck!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:15 AM

alanabit

you won't offend my aesthetic sensibilities but please do make sure those 'warm and comfortable' clothes are clean and the right size otherwise you will look ridiculous!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:31 AM

Has Martha Stewart found Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:55 AM

I'm the sort of person that can make a Paris original look like it's been slept in, after only just looking at it... so I don't bother. I realise that the wrapping is half the attraction of the parcel, but what the hell use is pretty wrapping paper if the thing it wraps is useless?

Many a joyous thing has been found wrapped in brown paper.

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:05 AM

LTS

'so I don't bother'

I suppose that just about sums it up!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: The PA
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:46 AM

I just have a general 'thing' about people not making the best of themselves all the time. But this is from someone has to wear a suit to work every day and still slaps on a bit of mascara and lippie to muck out her horses. I'm a freak I know.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:47 AM

Don't feed the trolls Liz

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: kendall
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:54 AM

This is just one more subject for people to disagree about. There will never be a final answer.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 11:19 AM

I'll give the trolls a little nibble anyway - I haven't seen that folkies are any scruffier than the average crowd. I haven't noticed that the women are unbathed, or unshaved (although really, that is a supremely tiresome social custom, which incurs unreasonable social backlash if not faithfully pursued). If by 'making the best of yourself' peasandchips (eww: now that's a disgusting food combo, IMO) means dressing as if you're going to the office or the theatre, then s/he can go pound sand. Skirts, pantyhose, heels, highly engineered and adjusted bosoms, and clown makeup are not comfortable or sensible getup for folk festivals or house parties.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 01:02 PM

BEE
'pantyhose, heels, highly engineered and adjusted bosoms, and clown makeup'

I wouldn't dream of such things at a festival and I can't remember when I last time I wore pantyhose (yuk) and heals but a good bra is essential at my age. And clown makeup always looked ridiculous! Lets just smarten up a bit - ditch the dirt and dare I say it 'iron you clothes'. Take a bit of pride in yourselves!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 01:10 PM

Dear Ms Home and Garden: I apologize for calling you an asshole, arsehole and telling you to fuck off. I didn't realize you were a lady.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 01:11 PM

On second thought, you're no lady. Fuck off.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 02:22 PM

Peace

why so nasty?

is it because no woman will live with you and you are very bitter? I notice that you have posted 257 messages since 1st April - that sure tells you something.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Diva
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 02:25 PM

well its not that we are scruffy per se but I have found it increasingly difficult to plug in the hairdryer and the curling tongs when in my tent at a festival, not to mention the iron!!! So I make do with ever is clean by the end of the w/e. However, we were at the TMSA conference at the Scottish Parliament last Saturday and you've never seen such a bunch of swish well dressed folkies all in the one place!!! By jings but we do scrub up well!!!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 02:30 PM

Not bitter. Just wondering why someone like you who thinks her shit doesn't smell would start a thread to insult people. Seems the bitter one here is you. Not getting any lately?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 02:43 PM

By the by Lizzie, what I do with my time is my business. This is post 249.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 02:54 PM

For the well-dressed folkie. Impress those around you. Wear this.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:03 PM

You lot are queuing up to have the piss taken out of you by a guest. Come on kiddies, get real!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:03 PM

For the well-dressed folkette. Comfort in the grass and mud.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:04 PM

The boss has spoken. Everyone behave!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Amos
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:11 PM

I have no idea who this "they" is you keep referring to, but as far as I am concerned it is a meaningless generalization. Why do plumbers wear baggy trousers? They all do, you know. And why do all managers where white button down oxfords all the time, everywhere they go? And those silly shabbily-dressed sanitary engineers, they look like bums.

Why do people think that some local concern of theirs is a good basis for sweeping negative generalizations?

A

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:12 PM

The woman has issues.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: bobad
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:16 PM

Designer issues, to be sure.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:20 PM

Well, Bobad, I really thought the tux was elegant yet understated. The dress--well, it speaks with a subtle voice that says, "I am a self-determined woman. THIS is my statement. I'll be in the main tent when the rain starts. And you, the great unwashed, shall at last have your shower."

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:25 PM

I trust festivals will have dress codes from now on?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: bobad
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:28 PM

I kinda liked the Woodstock Festival dress code myself.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:46 PM

Peace

Me! have issues! you must be joking - I'm having fun. er I don't think peace knows what that is..... Would someone like to tell him?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: bobad
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:49 PM

Hey there piss and chips troll on over to the cannabis thread - the fish are biting.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Canadienne
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM

hey peas on chips - you're about as much fun as a wet weekend and I'm in a generous mood today :)

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:20 PM

You lot are really making me laugh. You are just so easy to wind up!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:22 PM

Told ya, don't feed the trolls, but all I got was some smart ass reply.
G

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:27 PM

It's all you deserved for the manner in which you said it.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:29 PM

And for the fiftieth fuckin' time, why does the 'cat allow "guests" who are members to start troll threads? And THAT was evident from post one.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Cool Beans
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:12 PM

Because they don't know the words. No, wait, that's the answer to: why do bees hum? Sorry.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: dwditty
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

because singing folk songs in a Neil Diamond shirt is just plain silly.

dw

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:18 PM

True. It interferes with the sound quality and it's very crowded. Better in the tent or on the stage.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: kendall
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:22 PM

I once made a general statement without thinking and my wife said, "Right, and all Indians walk single file too."

I said "What? why do you say that"? she said, "Because I saw an Indian once, and he was walking single file."

I've since been more careful about generalities.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:03 PM

ANYTHING to avoid being taken for a Republican!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:06 PM

LOLOL

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,John Huggen
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 07:48 PM

Who really gives a brass monkey's left ball on what a 'folkie' should or should not wear. Back in the days of Haratio Nelson we officers were expected to wear our Bicorns while on the deck. Haw, haw, could you imagine the likes of Mr. Christian abiding by this rule of conformity now days. We never put the damned things on our heads while on the high seas.

Anyway, to hell with all this trivial nonsense. Let's all lay down our swords and all indulge in a drink.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:04 PM

Scruffy!?? Me? Scruffy???

Hell, woman, these are my pajamas!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:13 PM

John. I met you on the Help forum. I love ya! LOLOLOL

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:18 PM

Yeah, but who's that fine figure of a man IN your pajamas?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:23 PM

You don't buy that that's me?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:27 PM

C'mon - if that's you and you're a folkie, where's the scruffy beard?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 08:29 PM

Dang, Don. Where DID you get my picture?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 09:27 PM

"Why are folkies scruffy"

I ain't a folkie. I'm just a slob. I'm scruffy because I am. No excuse.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:19 AM

Why do so many slobs sing folk music?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:23 AM

Because when we hum it, people bitch and say they want the words. DOH!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:53 AM

Ba-da-da bing!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 12:55 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 09:07 AM

I've been giving this subject some thought (note to self - must get out more) and I think that it basically comes down to the fact the most of the true folkies I know are quite comfortable in their skins and whatever clothing they choose to wear and do not seek approval or acceptance from their peers or the general public. Therefore, they see no need to dress to impress in any way whatsoever.

I think that the instigator of this thread is not what I would term a true folkie as she obviuously has issues with her own self image and worries about what others will think of her, thus Non folkies just think we look ridiculous and I do however think we should take pride in our appearance. The scruffy people do Folk Music no favours. Non folkies think we are a joke and that opinion has a knock on effect on the music..

I get the impression that this lady is ashamed to be seen with all these scruffy people, in case the general public think that she is of the same ilk. If that is so why keep associating with them? Anyone who is truly into the music won't give a rat's arse what the performers are wearing. If appearance is more important to you go find another interest. I doubt that you will be missed.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 10:12 AM

Yeah, I agree. If they want to look like filthy bums, that's up to them. It's not their fault they can't earn a dime at their craft. Stop being so judgemental ! ...Sheesh.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

First things first! That's it in a nutshell.

As an old Beatnik, I learned long ago that the cheap seats at the concert let you hear all the music. Being "fancy" in dress and demeanor was "too much monkey business for me to be involved in. (Chuck Berry) My hard-earned folksinging cash went for stuff important to me and those I loved, not for natty personal paint jobs.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:25 PM

Years ago someone asked why I used a certain tuning for a song I sang often. That's a difficult question to answer because the answer is seldom accepted by the person who asks the question. I said I used that tuning because to my ear it sounded better than straight tuning (EADGBE). The reply was, "Oh. But why does it sound better?" It went from 'why that' to 'explain how sound works' in fewer than 15 seconds. Now my answer is simple: "I'll figure that out and get back to you."

The inaneness of positing that people who dress a certain way are more caring of their appearance is claptrap. This thread was started by a member trolling. I know it was trolling because it isn't possible for any thinking being to be so fucking stupid. Have a nice day everyone, and don't forget to wear your Guccis.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:34 PM

Trust me Peace, it's possible and I've met quite a few - once. When I worked in insurance claims I got the theory that 80% of the population share a brain cell and most of them have never seen it. Even today that rule seems to stand true quite often. Mudcat seems to be one of the exceptions to the rule. :0)

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 02:49 PM

"C'mon - if that's you and you're a folkie, where's the scruffy beard?"

I don't necessarily consider myself a "folkie," even though other people probably do. I'm a singer-guitarist. But as I said, most of the songs I like to sing just happen to be folk songs.

When I was performing actively during the Fifties and Sixties, I didn't have a beard. I was clean-shaven. Same now. I had a beard for about a year and a half during the early Eighties, but this was while I was working for the telephone company ("One ringy-dingy . . . two ringy-dingies. . . ."). When I finally shaved the beard (one morning, while eating pancakes for breakfast, I manage to dribble syrup into the beard about three times, and decided "That does it!" Besides, the damned thing was starting to itch), I left the moustache. Nobody at work commented when I showed up Monday morning without my beard, but a year and a half later, the unit supervisor looked at me kinda funny and she asked, "When did you grow the moustache?" Sharp as a tack!

No facial hair. I shave regularly (except, of course, for my eyebrows).

Here's something to play with (sorta like dropping a lit firecracker into a bowl of Jell-O):    define "folkie."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:34 PM

Don, we musta had the same boss.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 03:54 PM

I appeal to a sense of balance. I don't think you have to appear like a derelict to sing folk songs. I don't think you need to be in a three-piece suit either. But if you look nice (that is acceptable to a large number of people) you are doing folk music performers a favor.

Some of the folkies take the view that they have to dress down to maintain their image.
I think a criticism of this idea is legitimate. Blues players from the twenties and thirties have always appeared on record labels with a tie. Check it out.

I have mentioned this before. Alan Lomax presented Leadbelly in prison stripes to sell him to a large audience. I think that backfired. Leadbelly's success meant he could dress the way he thought he ought to, in a suit and tie. It didn't hurt his artistry one bit.

Yes it does matter how you look. If you look like you haven't taken a bath in a while, there's no reason that you should automatically assume acceptance for your "art".
That kind of image is a distraction from the communication that you are trying to establish.

The fact that this question is asked should give some people pause to consider why maybe folk music doesn't have a larger audience.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 05:10 PM

"I don't necessarily consider myself a "folkie," even though other people probably do. I'm a singer-guitarist."

Okay - that would explain why you wear a tux to bed!

'define "folkie."'

Singer-guitarist slob with a scruffy beard.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 05:37 PM

I am not a singer or guitarist, neither do I have a beard, but I do run a folk club.

Is that allowed

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 05:40 PM

And for my last post to this very sad thread, in answer to "Why are folkies scruffy", they aren't. The premise was full of shit to begin with.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 06:57 PM

"I am not a singer or guitarist, neither do I have a beard, but I do run a folk club.

Is that allowed "

Depends - are you a slob?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: gnomad
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 07:58 PM

Frankly, if my appearance was the only thing in which I had pride, I would consider suicide was not merely an option, more a duty. I have much better things to do than dress up to appease the fashion fascists [sleeping for a start].

Hygiene is clearly a requirement, possibly protection too, but the rest can go hang.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 11:13 PM

I'm protesting the wastefulness, shallowness, and female-objectification of the clothing industry.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Rasener
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 12:30 AM

>>Depends - are you a slob?<<

No, but that wasn't the thread question, was it?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 12:48 AM

No - but YOU had a question, remember? "Is that allowed" Which I took to mean, are you allowed in the ranks of the folkies ...

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 01:06 AM

Folkies are only scruffy because they can never afford to be 'not scruffy'. They have to 'sell out' and then they will be rich, and can afford to 'clean up a bit'. Simple, enough. Everyone else does it.(eventually)

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 07:45 AM

Folkies are only scruffy because they can never afford to be 'not scruffy'.

Not so. That is another generalisation. I am aware of quite a few folkies of my acquaintance who are adequately provided for, if not well off.

They have to 'sell out' and then they will be rich, and can afford to 'clean up a bit'. Simple, enough. Everyone else does it.(eventually)

Not everybody 'sells out' and mostly it's not a matter of being able to afford to clean up. These people tend to have a different set of values, which do not include the need to dress to please anyone but themselves, or to slavishly follow the mores of the so-called respectability of the general population, most of whom have been brainwashed into their behaviour by the media and religious or commercial organisations or because that was the way their parents did it.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 08:03 AM

I agree.

Lets get naked.....

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 08:24 AM

I'm often reminded why I married this woman.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 09:05 AM

As opposed to, say, weelittledrummer?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 09:15 AM

No contest

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 10:04 AM

Hi Jacqui.c, glad we met. P.S. Do you always take everything soooooooo literally ?? I was mostly speaking 'tongue-in-cheek' when saying they have to 'sell out' to get money so they can clean up. Good Morning to all !!!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 11:25 AM

Since, on line, it is difficult to tell a serious comment from a flip one it is customary to show, in some way, that you are speaking tongue in cheek, if that was what you were doing.

Maybe you ought to sit back and read a few more threads before contributing, so that you can get the general idea of this site.

And I'm serious, OK?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 11:27 AM

nudge nudge wink wink, gotcha.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 06:46 PM

Sruffy? SCRUFFY?

And this is important in some way?

Since when has fashion ever been functional? Call me an engineer and a folkie but I want my apparel to work for me not for sartorially crippled onlookers. Likewise the people I consort with need to be halfway tolerant of MY dress sense - lets face it. As has been said - beauty (definitions?) is only skin deep - or should we say shallow?

I personally have never danced in high heels and you don't see many such footwearers at ceilidhs, and you don't see the wearers more than once. same goes for mini skirts and tight dresses and baggy trousers that the fashinista have to scuff right through by walking on the hems. Now just how scruffy is that?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 06:53 PM

"I personally have never danced in high heels"

Then you have an experience awaiting you, Mr Red.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Apr 07 - 07:24 PM

Engineer! Folkie!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 09 Apr 07 - 04:37 PM

I don't know about 'scruffy', but there do seem to be a lot of people who see sessions and festivals as an excuse to raid the dressing-up box and don stuff that they wouldn't dream of wearing otherwise. Hence the number of teachers, IT staff and local governmetn officers wearing tie-dye shirts and indian cotton trousers, and the affected headgear and general :LOUDNESS: of the clothing. It smacks of attention-seeking and the "Hey, I'm totally mad, I am!" attitude of the otherwise terminally conformist.
For many, though, I'd guess that festivals are a chance to let their hair down and indulge in a little make-believe. As such, if 'scruffy' is what floats their boats, then who's to deny them that? OK, it adds to the stereotype, but it's a true stereotype.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 08:00 AM

Seems to me that a lot of folkies realise what many die-hard rock and pop fans (and the original poster) do not: that image is no substitute for musical substance and ability. If you can play/sing, why do you need to dress up? If a person judges all other people by appearance, then they have a depleted life.

Wesley S: "Folks here in America do a lot of things better than the folks in England. Building guitars for instence [sic]. I'll assume that dressing nicely is one of them also." Wesley, you have obviously never heard of George Lowden (Irish) or Rob Armstrong (English), both of whom make guitars that have timbre, projection and subtlety that make any US-made guitar seem like a toy. Just my opinion. Also, bragging about themselves is one talent Americans in general have in much, much more abundance than the English in general. To the English, this self-aggrandisement makes those who do it look like arses. Sorry, asses. I prefer the English way, thank you.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 08:14 AM

Fighting talk, cookieless Ian. Behave youself and be nice to our American cousins, otherwise they won't let us join them on the next search for weapons of mass destruction.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: guitar
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:03 PM

because we are

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: dianavan
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:39 PM

Guest peas&chips - Do you collect Martins? Do you like to shop at WalMart? Do you live in Chicago?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 03:14 PM

Ian - I own a Lowden 12 string. And I was just having you Brits on. Just a bit of fun. Pulling your leg. Yes there are some fine guitar builders in England. There just happen to be more of them in America. It stands to reason - this is a much bigger country. More people in it y'know.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 03:36 PM

diana - I think you're starting to see him everywhere.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 04:01 PM

Dare I comment..?? Okay, what the heck, here goes..........I think this thread was only started to cause a stir, which it seems to have done quite successfully, I might add. Guest Peas and Chips (and yes, I did read every post in this thread) simply appears to be trying to stir up a hornet's nest, and boy, the hornets are out in full force!! On my best day, I couldn't compete with Peas n chips, no way, no how. I counted the 'F' word at least 4 times, among other equally offensive profanities. Boy oh boy, talk about taking the bait. The subject is ridiculous and doesn't warrant discussion. (although I admit posting once or twice to this thread previously). Or maybe we should give Gordon Lightfoot a call, and ask his opinion. Isn't he what people call a 'folkie'. I know he sings folk music. It's just a stupid stereotype stemming from the 60's 'free spirit' movement (long hair, beards, jeans and vests). You know, when drugs flowed free, and nobody paid heed to 'the man'. The subject sure seems to have struck a chord, though. Kind of funny, actually (unless you are a 'folkie', if you are, relax, nobody actually thinks that way anymore). Bye for now.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 04:07 PM

Of course AWG - it's a guest troll thread and should be treated with all of the respect that type of thread is due.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 04:41 PM

Scruffy Folkies, scruffy folkies,
Dressed Haight-Asbury style,
In the air there's an odor of...

Where's that mary-wanna thread again...

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 05:17 PM

I know, I must look dreadful. The problem is that one simply cannot find a manservant that's worth a damn these days.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 05:24 PM

I shall lend you Jeeves.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:03 PM

"Boy oh boy, talk about taking the bait. The subject is ridiculous and doesn't warrant discussion. "

No kidding.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ding dong
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:10 PM

The real question is why are Guests allowed to start threads of this nature.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:18 PM

I don't find that "folkies" are scruffy, rather they just seem to have they're own style. I live on the same island as Valdy and his style is unigue to say the least, red sneakers, stripped knee socks, funny shorts and usually a goofy hat. That's his persona and it's worked well for him for many years. I have recently ended a three year relationship with a man who never took off his baseball cap (filthy), never changed his clothes and basically smelled bad!
It definately works for him, but sadly, not for me. I hope this doesn't make me sound shallow, but I couldn't take it anymore. There is clean and there is dirty but I feel "scruffy" is just a style.

Lyrical Lady

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,teen spirit
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:35 PM

Kurt Cobain was considered by some to be a folkie.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ding dong
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:39 PM

Which three people would that be?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 11:19 PM

Okay, here's the real reason in a nutshell: Failing eyesight.

There's no sartorial faux pas that can't be blamed on poor vision. Beard look scraggly? Hell, whattaya expect from someone who can't bring the reflection in the mirror into sufficient focus to do a decent trim job? Socks don't match? Color blindness. Trousers too long? Astigmatism. Ketchup stain on shirt? Thought it was tie-dye.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,stinkyfolkie
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 02:01 AM

and why waste money on toothpaste and toilet paper

when martin guitars take so long to save up for

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:26 AM

Can I just say to Wesley S, weelittledrummer and others on this thread how WONDERFUL it is to have my last posting taken in such good humour (and yes, I know that some parts of the thread have been less good humoured). My, how things HAVE changed at Mudcat, as observed on another thread - and much for the better. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:57 AM

Addendum to earlier observation about folkies' failing eyesight:

The problem seems to be largely limited too close-up vision. It's not uncommon for someone who apparently can't see well enough to trim his beard to be able to tell a Martin D-18 from a D-28 at 100 yards, guess its manufacture date within two years, and be able to tell what luthier did its last fret job by how the ends of the frets are finished.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 11:14 AM

Jake Thackery use to wear a suit and tie. Is he considered a folkie?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 11:20 AM

We should get Guest-Peas.n.Chips opinion, shouldn't we?? Haven't heard from her in awhile.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 11:36 AM

She's off preening before the mirror, I believe.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Scoville
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 11:38 AM

I'm clean but still scruffy. I'd rather spend it on music than fashion.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 01:58 PM

Here, here, Scoville. It would be interesting to know exactly *where* peas & chips sees folkies. At festivals? Difficult to be elegant when camping. On stage? I can think of lots of professional folkies who dress *up* for gigs, so that doesn't fit the supposed stereotype. In folk clubs? Just *who* dresses up to go to the pub? Maybe peas & chips thinks the wrong class of people are listening to / performing folk music! I wonder if peas actually listens to the music at all, to start such a shallow thread. Come to think of it, why am I wasting my precious time on this thread, too?!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 06:18 PM

Because you're bored ??

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 06:31 PM

This thread still going? It was horseshit to begin with and it'll be horseshit to end with. But a good example why Guest posters should not be allowed to start threads in the BS section.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: bobad
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 06:43 PM

I'll second what Peace said, for all the good it will do, maybe if we keep hammering the nail will eventually be driven home.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest Peas & Chips
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:21 AM

Jake Thackery use to wear a suit and tie. Is he considered a folkie? YES!

I never said you had to 'dress up' or be 'elegant when camping'. I don't and I'm not! But I do make sure my clothes (even if they are old) are clean and tidy and fit properly. If you don't have any respect for yourself no one else will!

'She's off preening before the mirror, I believe' ......and why not?

'There is clean and there is dirty but I feel "scruffy" is just a style' You are right, it is a style, unfortunaltely people will think you are dirty if you are scruffy. Now I know a lot of you don't give a stuff about other peoples opinions and that's fine, you are happy with the way you look. Though perhaps you shouldn't moan about how poorly folk music is supported and low numbers of people attending Folk Clubs, it's because people think they might have to mix with tramps!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:28 AM

And if people are so ready to make value judgements like that they cannot be interested enough in the music to get past looks.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Scoville
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 10:57 AM

Leadbelly insisted on wearing a suit and tie onstage as a matter of dignity.




Amen, jacqui.

How tidy is "tidy"? In my family, that means "no dirt that could have been washed off" (old stains that won't come out are OK) and "no holes in really embarrassing places". Don't tell us "casual dress" unless you really, really, mean it.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 12:29 PM

Peace a Guest may have initiated this thread, but the club members are keeping it alive. Obviously the members must appreciate this thread, therefore Guests contribute considerably to the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: AWG
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 04:37 PM

Oh, that's gonna go over well.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 05:11 PM

"You are right, it is a style, unfortunaltely people will think you are dirty if you are scruffy. Now I know a lot of you don't give a stuff about other peoples opinions and that's fine, you are happy with the way you look. Though perhaps you shouldn't moan about how poorly folk music is supported and low numbers of people attending Folk Clubs, it's because people think they might have to mix with tramps! " - P&C

Why, Peas and Chips, does this scruffiness bother you? I've never seen your guest name in a music thread, so it seems you're not much interested in, or at least have few opinions about, 'tramp' music anyway.

I'd bet it's a small minority of people who equate poorly fitting or worn and patched clothing with being dirty. Those who do need to take a hard look at their reasons for thinking that way. When I was in my early teens, we were poor, and my clothing was usually inherited from my aunts - they never fit well, they were often a little worn, but they were clean, and no one thought otherwise.

As for the discussion attracting interest, why wouldn't it? We all have a personal dress style of some kind, and few of us over the age of sixteen like to be told we all dress or act the same. Also, it's natural to react to an insulting statement.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 05:14 PM

Well, it's less boring than the study of economics but it was still a thread initiated to bug people. You are not a Guest. You are a member posting as such, and as such you should please take a flying leap to yourself.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 05:42 PM

GASP !! A member posing as a GUEST ?? Say it ain't so!!!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 06:02 PM

Peas and Chips has obviously never been to the black tie G&T party on the campsite at Towersey. Very elegant, daaahling.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 06:06 PM

Well, throughout my schooling I was obliged to wear the school uniform and have my hair cut to the regulation length. When I began my articles and throughout my career as a lawyer working for/with the man I was obliged to wear a white shirt, a respectable suit, and a tie. These things were symbols of my oppression by capital. I am now free of that.

The ritual depilation of women symbolises the Victorian oppression - the delight in child-brides and obsession with virginity. It is time for women to throw off those shackles and assert themselves as equals.

The damage we impose on our skin by daily de-oiling of that which nature designed to be oily again reflects our repression. Watch the process of attraction between quadruped animals - it focusses largely on smell, yet we try to wipe it out. Why? Because we are afraid of ourselves.

The folkie, as might be guessed from his/her attraction to a music form more concerned with meaning than many other forms, is likely to be a thinker of sorts, and perhaps to self-select to those who do not kowtow to trend. The folkie, in short, is more likely to reject the symbols of the repression our visiting lover of convenience foods seems to embrace.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 08:09 PM

I agree this thread is boring, but personally I find economics somewhat less mundane. In regards to who initiated this thread, does it really matter. It certainly isn't annoying the members. Just look at the responses, ones who are posting are (mostly) enjoying defending their style of dress whatever it may be.I don't want to drag up some stinky flotsam from the beach, but there have been much more offensive and dirt disturbing threads in the Cat. Guests or members, it doesn't really matter in the big picture.

I'm through on this thread. If people find it more interesting than economics, fine. Whatever as long as no one (member, or guest) is out to personally attack or degrade, that is what really matters here.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Apr 07 - 09:00 PM

Aw, c'mon - stay on this thread - it's fun!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:45 AM

Wow, Richard Bridge! Mightily impressed with your posting and heartily agree!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:48 AM

"Whatever as long as no one (member, or guest) is out to personally attack or degrade, that is what really matters here. "

The fu#kin' thread TITLE is degrading.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,tolerant
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 11:56 AM

It is?

Well maybe it is.

No, it isn't for Gawd's sake!

But maybe I should go out and get a hair cut. I don't want to mistaken for Don Imus while I'm walking down Main Street.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Peace
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 01:12 PM

OK. The person who started this thread did so in all honesty to cause a nice discussion. Why didn't that member post under his/her name? The intent was to sow discord.

I think Guests should NOT be allowed to start threads in the BS section. If it continues, I will start to start threads as Guest. I'm sure that will occasion shit statements like, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should." Make a fuckin' rule or don't, but live with the decision.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: stallion
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:43 PM

I can't be arsed to read the thread but I know that my two mates Prof Ron and Fiddler Martin (aka Top Tup and Tawd Tup)would take issue with the "scruffy" tag, to Ron casual is a short sleeved shirt, neatly pressed of course, Martin is fairly similiar, as for myself, I look scruffy suited n booted (Paul Smith!) I think it might have a lot to do with their not being much money plying ones trade, sleeping in the back of a volvo estate with 200k+ miles on the clock has not been unknown ( quiz- find the the folk performer who owns a volvo [still running!,that is the car!] with one of highest mileage recorded for a volvo estate?)

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: stallion
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 03:52 PM

Volvo 121 1963 495069 miles to be precise

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 05:22 PM

Oh, for pete's sake, Peace, live up to your name or get a life. It's just an internet forum, for heaven's sake - and British folkies as a rule do look fucking scruffy. That's why many of us who do like and play the music actually feel embarrassed about owning up to such to 'normal' people.
It's sometimes a tad cringemaking, realising that you share a passion with so many dysfunctional soap-dodgers...
(Hmm, this trolling malarky is quite fun!)

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:58 PM

I've never met anyone who looked fucking smart. There's something about fucking that just rumples a shirt, if I remember correctly.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 08:11 PM

I got my haircut today as I said I would. Decided to go all the way. Drove over to Sears and ourfitted myself with a smart pair of Haggar slacks, and a nice buttoned down shirt, an Arnold Palmer windbreaker. Chucked my boots, replacing them with a pair of Bostonian slipons.

No way am I gonna be labeled a scruffy folkie anymore. Now way man.

It didn't stop there. I went over to HMV and bought a Michael Bolton cd. Listened to it on the drive home. Whooooeeee, can that cat sing!

Speaking of Bolton. Specifically the other Bolton, that is the John R. Bolton. I think he is a scruffy folkie. Look at that walrus mustache, rather longish hair and those wire rimmed glasses. Damn it it, he is a scuffy folkie. Never feel ya could trust that guy.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:34 PM

"I want to know why folkies are scruffy."

Sounds like a word used by upscale snobs. Scruffy has a pejorative meaning.


" Those tatty, washed out, far too big, 'colourful' clothes do no favours for anyone."

The clothes referred to here are not specific enough to identify anyone. If they are "washed out" then they are clean and not "scruffy". If they are "colourful" or here in the States, "colorful" then they can't be scruffy can they?

"Non folkies just think we look ridiculous and I also think a large proportion of folkies look ridiculous as well!"

All of the traditional folk singers who stem from a particular sub-culture that I've seen are clean, tasteful and mindful of how they look. The statement makes a judgement as to how "non folkies" see people and I don't know who these "non-folkies" are.

" Yes, I can here you say 'clothes are not important it the person that counts' and I agree to a point. but do we really have too look like we a living on the streets....."

Many buskers that I have seen on the streets don't look bad. Many have interesting clothes and present an image that will engender tips.

"After all most folkies are well off professional people!"

This statement is patently false and unprovable because it's a rank generality.
Such as all (fill-in-the-blank)_people are (fill-in-the-blank). Prejudice. Xenophopia?

"I simply don't understand why they have too look like they are on the dole."

I don't follow who "they" are. Again, this statement baits the people here on Mudcat, (me too). What a waste of time for all of us, and I apologize to everyone here for being so gullible as to try to respond.

I propose an alternative question. Why aren't folkies more scruffy?

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:44 PM

Actually, they can be washed out to the point of being faded and threadbare (and thus scruffy, though admittedly clean); they can be colorful as in having too many colors in one place (as opposed to being brightly-colored but with less variation) and could still be threadbare, stained, or patched, and thus scruffy. Those terms are independent traits.

Not that it matters.



And now I'm off to work on that orange calico flapper dress I've been planning for the last month, and anyone who is offended because I'm too colorful clearly doesn't have enough to do with herself.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:12 AM

When I said colourful I thought you would all realise that I meant bizarre - the sort of clothes that most people wouldn't normally be seen dead in except when at a folk festival. The sort of clothes that scream GIVE ME SOME ATTENTION. Why do lots of folkies purposefully go out of their way to look ridiculous? And then wonder why non folkies are not attracted to the music, festivals and folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:51 AM

Why does one alleged folkie purposefully go out of her way to sound ridiculous? And say the sort of things that scream GIVE ME SOME ATTENTION?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 07:59 AM

200!! YAH BOO SUCKS!

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:12 AM

I wear to festivals the same clothes as I wear to work (apart from the 2 rude and offensive Tshirts that I save for pissing off rude and offensive people), Most of my wardrobe was bought at festivals. The rest I make myself because as a short legged, round sort of person, it's very VERY difficult to get clothes that fit and are within my budget.

So if you want to see a short, round Civil Servant in rainbow shirt and homemade jeans, give me a ring at the Inland Revenue and I'll come and meet you for lunch. You're buying.

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:21 AM

I suspect our anonymous friend Peace and Shits has been involved in more than one folk festival, and may even have lost money running one.
Need to make money for the designer clothes don't we?
G.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:23 AM

Why does one alleged folkie purposefully go out of her way to sound ridiculous? And say the sort of things that scream GIVE ME SOME ATTENTION? I was sooooo waiting for that comment but I stand by what I said!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:35 AM

True Folkies are about the MUSIC. True Folkies really do not follow fashion at all. True Folkies are actually tolerant enough to accept anyone who loves the music into the ranks. I don't think that I've ever met a true Folkie who judged another by the clothes that they wore. I know Folkies who always look as if they had stepped out the pages of a fashion magazine and I know Folkies who don't. The one thing that they all have in common is that they get together to make and listen to Folk Music.

Those who are more concerned about appearances than the music really should be finding a different interest and stay away from Folkies. That way they won't have to be concerned about being lumped in with all us strange people. I think that I can speak for all true Folkies here and say that we may be concerned about the small numbers of people interested in the music but really do not see why we should have to change our attitudes to encourage more people in, particularly those who consider what we look like to be more important than the music we make.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:37 AM

It was a bet, I think: see if I can provoke the longest thread in Mudcat history on something as generally irrelevant to music as the clothing purportedly worn by fans. Harmless, if silly.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:03 AM

Bee you could well be right!

Jacqui 'I don't think that I've ever met a true Folkie who judged another by the clothes that they wore'

The inference is that I have judged people by the clothes they wear, tell me who hasn't. We ALL form opinions about people by the way they look. It's not until you know someone that the clothes are no longer important. My absolute best friends are folkies and some of them are down right scruffy. But not everyone is like that. I would like to turn more people on to folk music - not frighten them away!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:31 AM

It's the music they come for, not the sartorial excellence of the audience or the performers. Methinks that if one was shallow enough to judge a folk festival by what the attendees or performers were wearing, then that particular festival would be all the better for your absence.
Giok

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Guest peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:40 AM

John you are obviousley not listening.......

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:42 AM

You guessed!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 09:48 AM

but of course you are but not properly!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:02 AM

Dear, sweet GUEST - you're forgetting to get dressed up in your Peas & Chips! What are we to think? It's enough to put me off this thread - wouldn't that be a shame?

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,peas & chips
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:49 AM

no don't go - we would miss you

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

You've always had a way of making me feel all warm and fuzzy, and - well - scruffy ...

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:23 AM

Peas and Chips is absolutely right about the attention-seeking garb. How else would you explain someone I saw at Sidmouth who was dressed from head to foot in red, or the those that wear copies of old agriculural smocks or fish-gutter's slops? Somehow I can't see them turning up for work on a Monday rigged thus!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:27 AM

Unless, of course, they work on old farms, or in fish-processing plants ...

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:00 PM

This thread is still hanging on like a thread on clothes.

"Jacqui 'I don't think that I've ever met a true Folkie who judged another by the clothes that they wore' "

I think that many folkies do this all the time...sometimes in reverse. If you come into a folk performance wearing a three-piece suit, you will hear about it. Imagine your fave trad singer appearing "dressed to the nines".

"The inference is that I have judged people by the clothes they wear, tell me who hasn't. We ALL form opinions about people by the way they look. It's not until you know someone that the clothes are no longer important. My absolute best friends are folkies and some of them are down right scruffy. But not everyone is like that. I would like to turn more people on to folk music - not frighten them away!"

Joshua Bell has pretty much proven that how you look, what kind of environment you are in and all the trappings plays a tremendous role on how people hear music of any kind.
If you close your eyes and don't look at the performer, maybe then you can concentrate on the music. But if you see something that distracts you in any way, the music is not served.

And conversely, how a performer dresses usually enhances his/her relationship to an audience. Clothes often make the performer in that sense.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:11 PM

"...someone I saw at Sidmouth who was dressed from head to foot in red, or the those that wear copies of old agriculural smocks or fish-gutter's slops..."

How about the guest I saw at Keltic Lodge in Cape Breton, circa 1969? He was a young man from Oklahoma, without a drop of Scottish ancestry ('not that there's anything wrong with that!'), wearing a bright scarlet plaid outfit, pants, jacket and tie, playing a matching set of bagpipes. Certainly not 'scruffy', but oh my dear!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

dressed from head to foot in red, or the those that wear copies of old agriculural smocks or fish-gutter's slops? Somehow I can't see them turning up for work on a Monday rigged thus!

Well no, I won't turn up for work on Monday rigged thus - because I only work on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays.

I do possess a home made "agricultural" smock - indeed, I made what I believe to be the biggest smocked garment in the world, to fit an 18ft giant, but I don't wear it much, it gets in the way of the rotary digger. If it makes you feel any better, I will go to work tomorrow dressed entirely in red, whereupon I shall look like a mobile tomato. I'd wear it to the folk club if there was one nearby, but you'll have to settle for a rehearsal of Brahms German Requiem, OK?

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 03:28 PM

I said above that in coffeehouses, open mikes, and such—and at folk festivals—my usual garb was informal, consisting of slacks and shirt (clean), often wearing a turtleneck instead of a regular shirt, and that for concerts and some other performances I usually dressed a bit more upscale:   grey flannel slacks, navy blue blazer, white shirt and tie (hardly "scruffy"). I did fail to mention what is probably the most important aspect:   I dressed in a manner appropriate to the occasion and for the audience for whom I was singing.

In the coffeehouses and folk festivals, most people dressed informally. I did the same. At concerts and at performances for various groups (e.g., the Overlake Friends of the Library's annual banquet or a fund-raiser for the Washington State Museum of History and Industry) the men generally wore suits and the women wore dresses. That's when I usually wore the "grey bags and blazer" combination. In short, for whatever the event was, I dressed appropriately.

I recall at the Berkeley Folk Festivals in the 1960s, attendees dressed just about every which-a-way. But the performers, during their performances—Sam Hinton wore a suit and tie, Merritt Herring and Barry Olivier wore shirts and slacks, Mississippi John Hurt wore a suit and tie, John Lomax, Jr. wore a suit and tie, Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger were casually but nicely dressed, Joan Baez wore a blue skirt and white blouse. Normal clothes. Well groomed. Nothing out of the ordinary that said, "Hey! I'm a folkie!"

The New Lost City Ramblers wore plaid or denim shirts and bib overalls. But in addition to some fine country-style singing and string band playing, they clowned around a lot and cracked corny, "countrified" jokes. But they were essentially an "act."

Are you a singer of folk songs? Or are you an act?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: fat B****rd
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:02 AM

" I simply don't understand why they have to look as if they're on the dole" You mean folkies all wear trainers, "tracky" bottoms, t-shirts and hoodies !!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:08 PM

Actually, at the folk club that I used to go to in the UK, it wasn't unknown for one or two of the mob, coming straight from work in the City, to be dressed in formal office garb. Didn't affect their abilty to make music though and I can't really remember anyone making an issue of the way they were dressed.

I saw more inverted snobbery on the college campus where I did my teaching course. The one day that I turned up wearing a dress and with my hair 'done' the Sociology tutor asked if I was getting work as a secretary.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Slag
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 03:52 AM

Ooooooo, I wasn't going to look in on this one. I resisted it for as log as I could, then fool that I am, here I am!

Bruce, are you off your meds? Man, your getting down right crotchety in your old age! I love the way you decry the trolls and then post endlessly to their threads! Ah, well mea culpa too.

Why am I scruffy? I'm just a slob! And I can get away with it most of the time. About every two or three Sundays I'll trim my beard before church but not a whole lot more, unless it's a special occasion I can't avoid. I pretty much play and sing for myself. The neighbors like it that way. I do like folk music but truth be known I'd look the same whether I did or I didn't!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: frogprince
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 09:39 AM

Of those people, in any of the countries we hear from, who play or sing folk music...what percentage of them earn enough at it to buy both food and soap? : )

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,snappy dresser
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 02:50 AM

It's simply a uniform. It's "look at me, I'm a folkie" and GUEST, peas & chips is right to start the thread. And all of the silly postings about designer suits and ties are simply juvenile and defensive. Not to mention the rantings of "Peace" who seems to think he/she speaks for the whole internet.

It's certainly not about what people can afford - if it was there wouldn't be so much sameness - uniformity - in the folkie uniform. And yes, it does look a bit ridiculously stereotyped (in the UK, may I add). It's the supposedly liberal, free thinkers actually kow-towing to the general nature of the "correct folkie image". There's nothing really wrong with that, but it really is a blatantly obvious fact and to try to deny it is just silly.

"And why do the women in particular have to look like they have not had a shave and a bath in the last year!"

- great line and (crudely generalising of course) largely true. However, I think GUEST Peas & Chips is being a bit dainty, as I would have referred to the obvious signs of bad diet and lack of exercise too.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 07:48 AM

I'm really not sure what sessions chips and peas and snappy dresser are going to. I have had the good fortune to visit quite a number of folk clubs/sessions/singarounds in the last few years and have come across very few people dressed in the way that they suggest. There isn't a uniform - most folks dress to suit themselves and to be comfortable.

A lot of the events I've attended have been held in pubs and there tends to be a much lower standard of dress and 'bad diet and lack of exercise' amongst the non folkie locals from what I have seen. If you want to see scruffy, fashion victims and bad physical condition head to any popular shopping area on a Saturday afternoon, or to a football match or rock concert. I don't notice that those events drive people away because of the standard of dress and physical condition of those attending.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: number 6
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 09:06 AM

"Look at Me, I'm Wonderful"

Look at me, I'm wondrful... shooby-dooby-wah...
I'm not a bit like you or you... I'm a super showbiz star...
mm... You all buy my records, so I'd like to say...
Some little old cliche...
like that of...
Hi, everybody, good evening, it's a privelege to be back in your country... uh...

Two minutes, Mr. Smith!

He's a super, greasy, glossy show-biz star.
In a black tuxedo he looks wunderbar.
He has a slight American accent.
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
And his body's so re-laxez.
He'll be with you in a few moments.

The big, black windows in his Yankee car...
Say he's a great, big, super, greasy, glossy, smarmy
show.... biz... star!

..... by Viv Stanshall


biLL

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 04:59 PM

Life's too short to spend any of it ironing

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: John J
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:07 PM

I rather think you hit the nail on the head there Ed!

JJ

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:48 PM

". . . most folks dress to suit themselves and to be comfortable." Exactly so, Jacqui!

If GUEST,snappy dresser is referring to what I've posted when he (or she) says, "Postings about designer suits and ties are simply juvenile and defensive," because I mentioned that I often wear white shirt, tie (not designer—off the rack), grey slacks and blazer when I perform for certain groups, it's hardly "juvenile and defensive." Whenever I dress that way, it's because the audience is dressed similarly, and if it is at all "defensive," it's because I don't feel comfortable if everyone else is wearing suits and dresses and I'm clad in bib overalls or sweat shirt and jeans with a big rip in the knee (current fashion in some groups).

There are some who do affect a sort of 'folk uniform,' but I've noted that those who seem to be hung up on image might do a bit better if they spent less time on how they look and more time on how they sound.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: jacqui.c
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:40 PM

Too true Don!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:52 PM

You think folkies are scruffy? Go to a low class gin joint and check out the orangutans. That's "scruffy".

- Chongo

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:55 PM

An orangutan with a permanent. Now there's a visual for you!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:57 PM

Just imagine Burl Ives comin' outta the hairdressing salon...

- Chongo

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:16 PM

What the hell did they do to him in that beauty parlor, anyway!?? CLICKY.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 11:40 AM

NAahhhhhhhhh - that's Colonel Sanders and the Pilsbury DoughBoy on Prozac!

LTS

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: GUEST,snappy dresser
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:21 AM

quote
". . . most folks dress to suit themselves and to be comfortable." Exactly so, Jacqui!
unquote

WRONG in the UK (I did and do stress), where there are just too many affecting a "folkie look" for it to be simply coincidence. Deny all you like, it won't change the facts.

quote
If GUEST,snappy dresser is referring to what I've posted when he (or she) says, "Postings about designer suits and ties are simply juvenile and defensive," because I mentioned that I often wear white shirt, tie (not designer—off the rack), grey slacks and blazer when I perform for certain groups, it's hardly "juvenile and defensive." Whenever I dress that way, it's because the audience is dressed similarly, and if it is at all "defensive," it's because I don't feel comfortable if everyone else is wearing suits and dresses and I'm clad in bib overalls or sweat shirt and jeans with a big rip in the knee (current fashion in some groups).
unquote

No, I wasn't referring to your post or your manner of dress. If you read the words carefully - like this

"Postings .................................. are juvenile and defensive"

- you may see what I mean. For the record, among many of similar ilk, the particular posting I singled out for maximum juvenility was

"I suspect our anonymous friend Peace and Shits has been involved in more than one folk festival, and may even have lost money running one.
Need to make money for the designer clothes don't we?
G."

from somebody who has been imploring people not to post to the thread, but has continued to do so himself.

quote
There are some who do affect a sort of 'folk uniform,' but I've noted that those who seem to be hung up on image might do a bit better if they spent less time on how they look and more time on how they sound.
unquote

Good, so we all agree then.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:35 AM

Well the smartest folkie I have seen is RaggyTash at the First In Last out in Whitby last week.

He was smartly dressed with jacket and tie. Mind you he had just come from work. Didn't take long for the Jacket & tie to come off LOL :-)

Nice to have met you Nick & Christine.

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 11:17 AM

I was born to look scruffy. Oily skin and hair will do it every time. The skin on my face isn't pretty. I have never figured out a way to keep it from forming blackheads and coarse pores.

Recently I visited a dermatologist to have some suspicous-looking features on my face checked out (harmless, thank goodness.) I was in a room with four of them, all studying my unattractive facial skin and exclaiming "Your skin is so clean!"

Obviously the definition for scruffy varies between the man on the street and the expert.

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Bee
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 11:57 AM

Leeneia, from experience, age may solve the problem, and the oily skin and hair that has plagued you will turn out to be a positive, since dry skin and hair seems to be the rule once a person hits fifty. I've been careless of my skin all my life, worked outdoors a lot for many years, had relatively oily skin and hair. Now, in my mid-fifties, the hair is like dandelion fluff (and not in a good way) and the facial skin sucks moisturiser in at an alarming rate. If I don't now soak my face with cream after washing, it begins to look like dry salt flats!

Subject: RE: Why are folkies scruffy
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 01:08 PM

Okay, snappy dresser, I'm not in the UK, I'm in the US (West Coast, which, in itself may make a difference). So perhaps what you say is true for the UK.

But no matter where they are, I still think that people would be better off if they concentrated more on their music and spent less time worrying about their "image."

Don Firth