What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:14 PM

What I meant to say was that the online debate about 'Faldingworth Live sounds more fun that the actual live venue. Get a life and accept everyone deserves credit for their efforts. (if only once)

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:07 PM

I was lost for words

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:00 PM

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:52 AM

100

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:52 AM

Any old shite - that's why I no longer go to them.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Scoville
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:41 AM

You'll soon find it generally comes free and unsolicited around here.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: pirandello
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:37 AM

Yes, you did and thank you for that. I don't recall asking for a public slanging match.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

Dude, you asked what was acceptable. I told you. If you don't want to know, don't ask.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: pirandello
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:29 AM

Thanks Richard and Villan for bringing a nasty taste to my thread. Please take your stupid row elsewhere.
Ta.

Andrew

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,guest Tony from the duo No Fixed Abode
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 11:03 AM

Hi Villan,
          In the big scheme of life all we can offer is our support for your club and a big thanks to the 60 people who came and listened last Friday. Faldingworth may not be some peoples definition of a folk club but I guess there are many folk club organisers who would love to see 60 people at there club!!

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 09:22 AM

'Faldingworth Live' is neither a Folk Club, nor an Open Mic.

It's a venue where performers can perform sets rather than just odd songs, in a concert venue, thereby gaining experience of performing in that format.

As it's a concert-type venue, there is no opportunity for 'spur-of-the-moment' appearances by visitors. All performers, whether paid or unpaid, are 'booked'.

I personally have no problem with booking a 'spot' ahead of the gig, having worked in bands for 40-odd years I'm well used to being 'booked' - again it's an experience that performers can gain and use positively.

Use of the PA is optional (the sound-guy and gal are exceptionally good, musicians themselves, and work very symapthetically with artists of all genres).

'Faldingworth Live' does not, strictly speaking, qualify for discussion on this thread because it does not fall into the categories indicated in the Subject line. It is a successful venue, and personal attacks on the organiser simply because his style doesn't match someone else's standards are unworthy in the extreme. Anyone who doesn't like it is free to walk the other way.

I've been an occasional attendee of Faldingworth, mostly as a performer but sometimes as audience, since its inception, and I've never been aware of artists being 'auditioned'. But FWIW, and IMHO as one who HAS been auditioned many times elsewhere, auditions should be regarded by a performer as a positive experience. Even if the auditionee fails the 'test' there are positives to be gained from failure. Been there, done that, worn the T-shirt out.

Now can we quit the shit-slinging, and get back to discussing the Subject In Hand?

S:0)

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:29 AM

Richard
Faldingworth live is an event like going to the theatre or the cinema.
I also like the way of doing things you describe of turning up on spec and having a play and a listen.
But surely there is room for both ?
I know that if I have the good fortune to have a friday evening not at work I can look on the Faldingworth Live web Diary and see who is playing and decide whether on ballance it is the sort of band of merry fellows i would find to my taste musically and then decide if I want to go.
I can also find out as wioth Staithes music weekend that there is a planned gathering of lots of "folkies" who are gonna meet up in a nice place with good beer and scenery and play/listen to each other making music,both great and the sort I try to do.
From reading you rposts and with no O levels to my name it seems you are confused over what is on offer at Faldingworth live and sing arounds as we call them around here.
Is all abit daft as I know V is doing his bit for muisc locally and am sure you must be as well.
Is just different ways to the same end surely?

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:58 AM

Tom
I will not escalate this any further. Your comments make it very clear why I feel agrieved. However you seem to have very nicely corrected the injustice about my club and I will consequenlty refrain from making any further comments about Richard. I just hope he will do the same about my club.
Many thanks
Les Worrall

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:41 AM

Richard, again in fairness to Villan (I've started so I'll finish), he has explained that he's deliberately changed the name of his event so that neither the words folk nor club appear in it. He does not call it an open mic either, so to use Faldingworth Live as an example of a 'folk club open mic' (as defined in the opening post) which auditions, was not really fair.

You did say: "Yes. I can name a folk club that asked for auditions. I can name two, and there may have been more. THe Mucky Duck - Chester - late 60s early 70s. Its ads said ring for a floor spot. I did. They asked me to audition and said it was policy. Second, that place slightly north of London (plainly not a "folk club") that the Villan runs and Breezy attends glories in selecting floor singers."

Perhaps on reflection you can see why Villan feels a agrieved.

Posting here hoping that this will avoid any need for further escalation on both sides, because there have been some very useful comments here and it would be good if we could continue with an interesting discussion.

Love and peace

Tom

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:27 AM

It isn't a flame. It never was. The question arose - I didn't raise it - of whether there had ever been clubs that required floor singers to audition before being allowed to play. As far as I know that was and remains Villan's club's policy. My recollection of my investigations at the time it started is that I asked that, and was told that. I so, here, reported. Nothing rude about my remarks. No flaming.

Villan says he never said that and that anyone is welcome - but the quotes I have found so far (and I'm not going to waste any more time on it) indicate a determination to be selective in what he permits at his place of entertainment. His call. It may be a very nice concert venue, but it makes it not (IMHO) a "folk club" and not a place for me to shortlist to visit, when my preference is to turn up unannounced, and join in and sing a few things.

The thread is entirely about what is acceptable at a folk club "open mic" and what isn't. My (relevant, it might seem) views are: -

1.    Mic=not a folk club.
2.    Auditions=unacceptable.
3.    Restricting joining in - undesirable.
4.    I also find the endless Irish and sham-irish glorification of the deaths of the English unmannerly. I wouldn't say it of them, why should they say it of me?

I didn't start the F-ing and blinding here. I dealt with the core subject of the thread and a question expressed on it.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:01 AM

I didn't start it Tootler, and I never asked Richard to comment on my club, but he did and without my prior knowledge.
I have no reason to conduct a PM conversation with him, as he chose not to do that in the first place with me.
If he wants flame and the mudcat moderators see fit to allow that, then I will do the same to him.
I wouldn't have even looked at this thread if I hadn't been notified of his comments from soembody else.
Sorry for intruding on this thread as it has nowt to do with my club Tootler, but Richard seems to think it has.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Tootler at his sister's
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 03:54 AM

I think this thread would be much improved if Richard Bridge and the Villan conducted their row via PM rather than public forum. Their contributions to this thread do neither credit.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 02:04 AM

OK richard it seems that the powers that be, consider your attack on my club is perfrectly OK in public. So whats good for the goose ......

Firstly the policy of Faldingworth Live is as follows, and has been agreed by the committee.

Faldingworth Live is a concert style club. It is not a membership club and is non profit making. The purpose is to promote and platform singers & musicians in concert style. All performers must be capable of performing in front of a live audience for a minimum of 25 minutes in one go.

Quote from Richard
Although I am becoming alarmed at my increasing resemblance to the Shambles....
Unquote

Don't know about shambles, you are an arshole of the highest degree. I really don't see what the F*** its got to do with you, so kindly keep your fu***** nose out of our affairs.

If you don't like how the club is run, then fine, go to somewhere you like, but stop being an arsehole by slagging off my club in public.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 10:12 PM

They are the people who have come into our singaround thing and told us what songs we should sing and what we should and shouldn't do. It's a one way thing too - we always make them welcome.
Hey How are you Nick?
Hope to be around Flaxton way IN may hope you still the open warm welcoming and freindly club we know and love of old.
Will be just 2 of us this time guitar and whistle duo LOL.
Seriously just skimming this thread and got good memories of your lovely club/group thank you for letting us play in the past and looking forward to hearing that fantastic breathtaking harmony once more.
I would just like to say that Villan runs a great club there for those that like a variety of music of the acoustic kinds.
I have had the honour of being allowed to play there and he is doing a great job bringing on newbies like me and plenty of others and letting them develop and see where they want to be going.
He also has some great guests there and is always well worth the three quid to get in on the friday evening.
Those who dont like concert style clubs go to another sort and enjoy yourselves.
Villan does control who plays at his club.
He also does most of the bloody hard work and it his reputation and his money that keep it going.
WHo else would you expect to have the decision over which artiste is good enough or of the right traditon to fit in with the over feel of each evening?
As far as I know V doesnt play and I know he refuses to sing but he has done as much for music of the types I love to hear in this area as anyone of those that do perform.
He and I do not always see eye to eye on things but I say he is a bloody good bloke and the music scene around here would be very much the poorer for audience and performers if he were not around.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM

Although I am becoming alarmed at my increasing resemblance to the Shambles....

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:53 PM

To be fair, however, the Villan disavows auditions

here

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:44 PM

19th March 2004

"If I allowed somebody to perform, who quite clearly was awful, what is that going to do to the Listeners?"

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:36 PM

Uncalled for? Quoth the Villan, 29th February 2004

"From my point of view, its seems pretty pointless giving somebody the floor, who is not a competent singer. The songs they sing are not the important issue. You can't like all the songs or styles. But to me a bad voice is going to turn away new members.

I have already made a link with the local school to accomodate very good singers (youngsters) who will want to sing at the club. I would like to give at least one floor spot each evening for such a singer. I have been promised that if any of these youngsters come along, that they will have good voices and will therefore be worth listening to.

Anybody who has offered their services so far have a good track record. To me recomendation is critical. I would rather turn somebody down than be embarrassed or they be embarrassed. I dont'mean that in a nasty way at all."

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:19 PM

I didn't ask you to comment in the first place but you did. I only knew about your uncalled for comments about my club re your post 17th April 6:26 pm, becuase somebody else alerted me to it.
I will stop posting now as I see no further purpose in dealing with you now or in the future.

All I would say say, is that I wouldn't dream of making adverse comments in public about your singing whether I had heard you or not. As it is, I will chosse never to listen.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 06:04 PM

Villan, my previous post was not specifically about your club, unless the hat fits.

When you started your club, I sought to find out your policy. It was one of exclusion. What I was told persuaded me not to go, so I haven't been. You asked - I told you straight. If you don't want an answer, don't ask. It's also one of the reasons I don't go to another club, this one not far from me.

Yes, I've co-run a club. It wasn't bad until after a dive in attendance (which frankly followed a change in venue) a certain committee member tried to say that it shouldn't have folk music or be called a folk club, and started his competing club (which didn't survive) about 400 yards away. I brokered the re-union of the three Maidstone clubs (including that one) into one club the successor to which still runs (although there is now a competitor club as well) - and resigned. I can live without the politics, and the modernists rubbishing folk music.

I've also run sessions. The sessions were pretty successful. People seemed to like them. I couldn't be arsed so I stopped.

It's not a matter of bragging. You asked, so I answered.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 05:35 PM

Also,Richard how dare you talk about my club like you are when you haven't even been to it, and therfore have no idea what you are talking about.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 05:32 PM

You can appose what the hell you like Richard, but please don't tell me what to do at my own club.

Have you got your own club Richard. If you have, I hope you make sure you do what you like to do.

I seriously do not know what your problem is Richard, but please stop running my club down. I have put a serious amount of very hard work into it, and I think you are being very insulting to everybody who plays or comes to listen.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 05:04 PM

"folk djs are fervently traddy" - you jest. Not what I was going to post about but my jaw just dropped when I saw the assertion.

The irony of this is that while I like folk music (or traditional accompanied and unaccompanied English folk song, to avoid having another definitions argument) I also like a load of other stuff, and I'm not actually a hard core traddy. Stuff I play (and sometimes play in folk clubs)includes

Play with Fire (Stones)
Substitute (Who)
Shooting Star (Bad Company)
Signed DC (Love)
Love has no pride (I forget the author, but the Bonnie Raitt version is well known)
I washed my hands in muddy water
This train
Tom Dooley
Worried man blues
St James Infirmary

and I'm working on a couple of Doors songs. Hate the Beatles though.

None of these are "folk" but I mention it to clarify what I actually do do.

What I do oppose however is:
These and other non-folk songs (and cuckoos from other traditions)being permitted to oust (English) folk song in and from England;
Folk song beng taken away from the people by arbiters of standards and taste;
Folk song becoming a product purveyed by the inner circle to humble acolytes who merely listen (and hence electric setups, unless you want something that can only be done with electrics, but even then it has IMHO to be done at the same sound pressure as acoustic instruments, otherwise you exclude acoustic instruments and voice).

I also object to the Irish and, worse, pretend-irish coming and singing with glee to me about killing (sometimes murdering) my countrymen past and present - would I survive if I took English military songs to a Dublin pub session?

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 04:12 PM

Yeh maybe you're right. If folk music is what you guys insist it is, then perhaps I don't like it.

Trouble is with your argument....it not in my hands. Most of the folk djs are fervently traddy as are the half dozen folk journos. And yet somehow the whole movement is juddering and has been for the last 20 years at least. I've been trying to suggest its the generally snotty interface with humanity that lies at the root of your problems - however I can see the seeds of this idea are falling on stoney ground.

And incidentally Richard - lots of people play Faldingworth without using a microphone.

The villan does his best - show some respect.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:23 PM

I'd agree with you there, Jim, if you swapped Traditional for Folk :-)

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)..
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:18 PM

"and these folk clubs where is just stricly folk music and nothing else must be very boring".
MacColl once said that the problem the folk revival was facing is that it had fallen into the hands of people who didn't like folk music.
I think his point is being made on this thread very well.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: pirandello
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 08:37 AM

My answer to the sneerers has always been,'you go and do it 'better', then'. Silence usually follows.
Swarbrick may not have been the be all and end all for the traditionalist but at least he was up there and doing it.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 05:46 AM

I'm not so sure jim its the people you say who are responsible for the continuance and such popularity of folk music as there is. In this day of mass communication - isn't it the stars and popularisers who capture peoples imaginations the Lunnys, the riverdancers, interviews with the Pogues - talking about their influences. That sort of thing.

as any clarinet teacher - when the parents take the kids for their first lesson - its always - how long til he can play stranger on the shore - not some piece by Mozart.

I can remember people sneering at Swarbrick - saying there are ten year olds in Ireland who play better fiddle than that.

the trouble with the traditionalists - is we're never traditional enough for them.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 05:38 AM

we have a open imc at the Irvine Folk club every Marymass, and I Tom hamilton gets roped in, I don't win because I don't treat it as a compantion.

Last year I didn't even know that I was in the Open Mic.

Tom Hamilton

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 04:56 AM

Indeed, Sue. I guess Faldingworth and the like could be described as owing as much to the old Music Hall tradition as to folk clubs - which are after all a very modern invention.

I've played places called folk clubs where we were the only people who made a sound, and gone to others with the same title where I was very much a guest and greatly in repect of the locals and their traditions - and felt honoured when I got some applause for a song. There's room for all.

What does help is to try to signal what the event will be about - ideally in the title, though that's never going to be a perfect science and you need to make things clear on the night as well.

Like Richard and Jim I'm evangelical about the need not to loose touch with our musical tradition(s), and some positive descrimitation is definately necessary, so some dedicated events are essential. But I'm also reasonably confident that there's enough great old music about for people always to stumble on, and fall in love with, historic works because they have a good tune, words or story - and from that will follow more discoveries and riches.

What we ARE in danger of loosing is the concept of live music played socially and informally, particularly live music with clear roots. The homogenisation of music that happens when it is treated solely as a product is a real threat, and does need to be resisted.

We were only saying at the New Roots event in St Albans last week how imprtant it is for everyone to encourage young people to see the benefit of informal musical gatherings. The Bridge in Newcastle has a great policy of deliberately attracting youngsters (mainly from the degree course) by offering a monthly youngsters evening. York and others do something similar.

Let's have... Good concerts where the all performances are worth the money charged on the door, AND casual gatherings where even the most timid can feel able to contribute, AND places where endagered musical styles and material are celebrated, AND all the permutations thereof. Let's have it all - and not worry overmuch what we call it.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 04:55 AM

May I also add Richard, that what I put on at my club is one thing.

I am also a member of Gainsborough Folk Club and Grimsby Folk Club and wherever possible, will attend other clubs in the area.

Last week whilst on holiday at Whitby, I managed to visit 4 clubs in Whitby. All of them were different.

They are all different to my club, and thats what makes life interesting.

I believe that the variety of the different clubs is important and together helps to keep the music alive.

Ah well you stick to what you like Richard and I will continue my way and have a lot of fun and see many talented people and above all hope that the music survives in as many ways possible for the better of all.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)..
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 04:44 AM

Some years ago some friends started up a new club. They didn't want it to be too prescriptive so they advertised it as a "music club".

On the first evening two well-dressed ladies were sat in the front row. After the first song, they looked at each other in horror, and one said, "Oh my God, it's a FOLK club!". They left.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Sooz
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 04:20 AM

Some good points well made, Tom.

The main thing is, if people enjoy going to a club, whatever it's style, they will go again, and again. Success is what we want, isn't it?

Variety is essential. For anyone coming to Gainsborough Folk Club for a singers night it is a bit of a lottery as you never know quite what is going to happen or who will be performing. (And of course it could be you!)This leads to some wonderful sessions and unpredictability is a major part of its charm. Over the years, we have seen some very hesitant beginners turn into proficient performers.

On the other hand, anyone can look at Villan's diary to see who is on the bill and decide if they want to see them or not. As he says it is their choice.

Last night we went to a club we hadn't visited for a long time for a singers night because we fancied doing a bit ourselves rather than watching others. We saw half a dozen singers who we hadn't seen before doing a variety of material (although to be honest, very little of it fitted even my liberal definition of folk). One of them was absolutely brilliant (and young) which really made it worth the drive.

Vive la difference!

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: guitar
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:47 AM

at the Irvine folk club, nearly anything goes, folk, blues, bluegrass, country, pop (within reason), because it's music at the end of the day, and these folk clubs where is just stricly folk music and nothing else must be very boring.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:46 AM

Richard, in defence of Villan and the hundreds of other clubs who also operate a concert policy I feel I should point out that there have ALWAYS been places where musicians and singers entertained for money, where an element of quality control was in place, and where both new and old material was performed. There is nothing wrong with that, and these venues take nothing away from from people at all. Rather they are helping to spread the music around.

There have also always been places that were not about money or quality; the home, the workplace, the social gathering, the church, where music fulfilled other functions, and the songs and tunes have always travelled back and forth between all of these.

We all know this, and no-one has a problem with any of it. There is only one reason why people fall out about it: Language.

People can have very different personal definitions of the same word - in this case 'Folk.'

You object to people applying that word to venues like Villan's (though you know he doesn't use it himself), because you feel that if it IS used, then what happens inside should belong in my second category above, not my first.

Others don't have that problem, but only because they are happy for the word Folk to be applied to the first category too - because their definition is now different to yours.

Yes, there was a time when the word folk was that clearly defined, and in those days you'd have had a good point, but now the language has moved on.

The truth is that you can no more stop the evolution of language than you can halt the flow of lava. If I was to say to both my Mum and my daughter that my gay bro had a wicked mouse on his mac, they would both have a very different picture in their heads (and my mother would be very confused - because I don't have a brother).

If you want people to follow you, you need to use language that they can't misunderstand. So any insistence on only the old defintion of folk is going to lead to confusion and hence trouble. It's a shame, but like global warming and George Bush it happened.

When i want to refer to the thing you're talking about I'm willing to use two words, old dances, or traditional songs, or collected songs. It doesn't take much longer, and people rarely misunderstand.

As for clubs - well there are plenty that do have the policy you espouse. Personally I hope both types thrive - along with all those that lie somewhere between.

I'd say out challeng today is to get younger people to embrace the whole scene before we all die off. So the more the merrier, whatever we call it!

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)..
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:37 AM

I would be interested to learn how running a club to present the music you like and believe to be important enough to make an effort for can possibly be described as cliquish or snobbery. Why should we be expected to present a 'wide variety' of music? Do we expect, say, a jazz club to present anything other than jazz; if I attend a disco (god help me), would it be reasonable for me to expect Country and Western?
If we make the running of clubs an object in themselves I believe we have really dropped the ball.
My point remains - what are we involved in the music for?
My reasons are based on the purely selfish notion of continuing to get the enormous pleasure I got, and still get from hearing a good traditional song well sung. While I might enjoy listening to a Mozart trio, or Anita O'day singing 'Tea For Two', there is nothing like Sheila Stewart singing 'Tiftie's Annie' or Mary Delaney's 'Buried in Kilkenny' or Walter Pardon's rendition of 'Broomfield Hill' to set the hairs on the back of my neck bristling. I would love to think that people are getting the same buzz long after I'm doing my bit to produce feed for the local livestock.
We have been visiting this part of the West of Ireland for over 30 years and up to 15 of those, I would have said with confidence that traditional Irish music was on its last gasp. It was in the hands of a few stubborn old gits like Junior Crehan who, despite the trends, insisted on playing what was contemptuously referred to by the media as 'diddly-di-music'. Now the music has blossomed. Last St Patrick's Day saw around 50 youngsters in this (small) town out on the parade playing flutes, fiddles, pipes, concertinas, whistles, melodeons - and playing them well. Thanks to the efforts of Junior (now dead) and a handful of dedicated people who bucked the trend, kept the old styles alive and took time out to pass on the music to younger people, it is safe for at least another couple of generations. This certainly didn't happen by watering it down to make it 'presentable'.
Maybe it would help those who have no interest in traditional music if they re-named their particular brand as 'accoustic' - interesting thought; though I suspect that in next to no time somebody who wanted to play their electronic keyboard or amplified fiddle would be labelling the organisers as 'finger-in-ear', 'purist', or 'accoustic police'.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:16 AM

It's very simple, Villan. You made it clear from word one that you would only let people play in your venue if you thought they were good enough. What you are doing is taking folk music (and neofolk that is performed in the same setting) away from people, leaving it to their gurus, putting yourself between the people and the music, and setting it up on a platform to be passively consumed. That's the music business ethos, even if you do not personally profit from it.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 09:20 PM

Well I am amazed at your statement Richard.

I don't audition poeple at all.

I may invite them to do a 25 minute floorspot initially if they want to and I don't know them, or send me a CD or if they have a myspace website with video, even better. But an audition!!!!!!!!!!

Tonight I had on No Fixed Abode, John Conolly & Bill Meek, Cara and Andrew Tiffany and had over 60 people attend.

To list every performer I have had on at my club over the last 4/5 years would be very difficult as so many people have been on at the club.

However, the following people have performed full gigs and been paid the asking price on my Saturday night concerts which started in October 2004.
Graham Moore & Gill Redmond
Martyn Wyndham-Read
John Conolly
Bill Whaley & Dave Fletcher
Jez Lowe & Kate Bramley
Bob Fox
Allan Taylor
Anthony John Clarke

Coming up for the rest of 2007 as full gigs
His Worship & The Pig
Derek Brimstone
Bram Taylor
Pete Coe
Flossie Malavialle

On top of that I have a main guest every other Friday paid, who perform 1 hour and 3 support acts that do 25 minute floorspots. Which has been operating for 4/5 years. The mix on that is so varied.

So please Richard can you explain your attack on me. I do my very best to bring people who can entertain a listening audience in a very rural area and it is succesful.

I think that I am doing something that a lot of people wouldn't get off their arse to do, especially if all their time is for nowt. It is very time consuming but something I am very proud of, and comments like yours do nothing to encourage people like myself to carry on.

When I stop at the end of the year, I can at least say I have done my very best. Who will be the losers. Not me.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)..
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 08:51 PM

Look - put together 10-15 minutes and perform in-out-done.

Have FUN!!! SING!!!! REJOYCE!!!!

If they like you they will invite you back.

If it is not their style - they will tell you.

Just like a BBS forum (Mudcat) sit and watch awhile...see if you fit in.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Nick
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 07:40 PM

Pirandello

You sit on the crux of an argument that will never get sorted.

Richard Bridge was enormously helpful to me when I was buying equipment and (because I would like to say thank you in person) is one of those people on Mudcat I would really like to meet.

On forums (pedants leap in) you assume and see sides of people. I sort of knew that Richard was a player - singer - something but he's now leapt - IN MY MIND - into being an extremist folk person and I never realised that.

I always thought that one day I'd meet Richard and Jim Carroll and the world would be ok. I really hope I'm right and I don't trip over my prejudices

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 05:36 PM

I dunno he books alot of other folk artists.

He's allright Richard - give him a ring - see if you want to do his club.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

My problem Villan? You set up a condition that people audition before being permitted to perform. That, to me, is not acceptable for a folk club. As neither is a microphone.

No doubt a policy for a mic night - but by definition not an "open" mic night. No doubt useful for a music club.

Nothing to do with folk.

No, you never asked me to audition - you don't want a folk singer.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: pirandello
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 11:59 AM

Perhaps the answer is to stop labelling 'folk clubs' as such and just call them acoustic music venues where all are welcome, cliques and snobbery are avoided, a wide variety of music is heard and maybe, just maybe, a few people might go home with ears opened to new experiences and, more importantly, will come back again.

Minority interests always attract a minority of people and I can't see how exclusively 'folk' clubs are able to survive. In Exeter I doubt whether there are many more than a couple of dozen people who like folk music to the exclusion of all other styles; yet, judging by the number of people showing up at open mics there are hundreds enjoying acoustic music of all genres.

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 10:45 AM

Richard Bridge
>>Second, that place slightly north of London (plainly not a "folk club") that the Villan runs and Breezy attends glories in selecting floor singers.<<

Did I ask you to audition?

I am quite open about how I run my club, and have even changed it from Market Rasen Folk Club to Faldingworth Live to reflect better what the club is about.

My club is concert style, and floorspots are available in advance for those people that want to partake. There is no pressure on anybody to come to my club if they don't want to.

I really don't see what your problem is here Richard. I work bloody hard for nowt (in fact I have ploughed quite a lot of money into to the club and I don't have an income at all) to provide as much variety of good quality music as possible in a rural area. Whats wrong with that?

Have a llok at the diary and youi will see for yourself.

Cheers
Les worrall
http://www.faldingworthlive.co.uk/Diary.htm

Subject: RE: What is acceptable (at a folk club open mic)...?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 03:41 AM

Jim , I had never had any doubt that your opinions are not based on solid experience.

I just have real reservations about those who write about folk music. And when I look at the general thrust of those university and polytech courses I have seen on folk music. they give me the same misgivings.

As for the Beatles evenings in a folk club - I think many organisers are just doing their damndest to keep afloat. Somewhere in there the folk revival lost the common touch.

As we struggle to get it back - you're going to see some odd things.

As far as the national identity thing I'm always reminded of a series of long conversations I had with Ian Campbell back in the 70's. He said to me - Alan, we had to get rid of the 'coffee bar cowboys'.

As we were both running half empty clubs at the time, I thought...... we could have done with a few of them in tonight!