BS: Could there be multiple universes?

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 08:08 PM

Say, is resonant chamber another word for ass? And if it is, shouldn't Big Bang be better stated as Big Poot?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 08:08 PM

"..but 'everything' within our comprehension, Bill."

well...speculating about what might be beyond our comprehension can be interesting, but that doesn't say much about its possibility. Over & over many people make a kind of jump - from giving a concept a name to acting as though it acquires some sort of reality from the naming. Our language enables our imagination in some strange ways....

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: BK Lick
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:52 PM

pity this busy monster,manunkind,

not. Progress is a comfortable disease:
your victum(death and life safely beyond)

plays with the bigness of his littleness
-electrons deify one razorblade
into a mountainrange;lenses extend

unwish through curving wherewhen until unwish
returns on its unself.
                                  A world of made
is not a world of born-pity poor flesh

and trees,poor stars and stones,but never this
fine specimen of hypermagical

ultraomnipotence. We doctors know

a hopeless case if-listen:there's a hell
of a good universe next door;let's go

-- E.E. Cummings

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:48 PM

Wolfgang, that is one of the best renderings of that kind of theme.
Better than the Shatner episode on Star Drek when they wer up against an all powerful baby.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: nutty
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:36 PM

"universe" is mostly used to mean 'everything'

but 'everything' within our comprehension, Bill. We have to accept that we know so little at present that such things are possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:30 PM

ummmm..sorry, nutty, I don't see the logic. "universe" is mostly used to mean 'everything'...stars & planets are just a part of everything. Separate universes are mostly the result of attempts to make mathematical equations balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: nutty
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:24 PM

If we remember that ever star in the sky is the equivalent of our Sun and around every star is the equivalent of our planets, then its odds on that out there somewhere is an equivalent universe.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: John O'L
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:16 PM

There can't have been a Big Bang. Sound requires atmosphere. It must have been a Big Silence, or BS. (The music section is of course a seperate universe.)

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 05:48 PM

Donuel...I hope you found the full-length version of "resonant chambers" and its kin on YouTube. They are ALL awesome!

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 05:37 PM

"Sheila, come finish that universe experiment in the Petri dish and let's eat a pizza"
"No, not yet, Marc, it's so interesting"
"How's your universe going? Have you intelligent replicators? And how have you set the variables?"
"I was going for a universe with not too much replicators. So I set the fine-structure variable to the usual value for semi-stable universes, the velocity of light close to ....(300,000 km/s in our units), the ... Yes, I got a slowly expanding universe with replicators, some of them even intelligent replicators"
"Do they know of each other?"
"No they are too far in space and time and they usually kill themselves off quickly once they find out about quark power. Here's one of them orbiting a light source. They call their orbiting mass Earth and they consider me as omnipotent, all-knowing and benevolent. The buggers think I interfere in their daily doings instead of just watching and protocolling"
"All-knowing, my arse. If we were that we wouldn't have to worry about the end of term physichemistry of universes examination. And benevolent, haha, kill them off now, Sheila, and lets go. You have done more than enough for this day's assignement. I stopped my experiment just after one bunch of intelligent replicators had killed off all other intelligent replicators in their light source conglomeration. I had chosen the values to give rise to many replicators. It is so much fun to see them fight."
"OK, Marc, I come with you for a pizza, but I let the experiment run until we come back."
"Don't be sentimental, Sheila."
"I'm not, I'm just curious. Those intelligent replicators on the Earth will when we come back either have killed themselves or colonised at least their local light point conglomeration. It's a toss-up."
"OK, I bet on extermination before we even order the pizza. We can check later on the historical display"
"Fine, I bet on colonisation. The loser pays the pizzas."
"Will we have to make universes again next week?"
"Yes, but the task is to make the more quickly pulsating ones. Boring, no replicators to watch."
"Yeah, but don't you like the quickly successing big explosions? Like a firework."
"Marc, do you think there could be intelligent replicators of several multiversers size watching us in their Petri dishes and debating killing us off before or after the pizza?"
"Don't be silly, Sheila".

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 12:00 PM

OK found it, ordered it.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 11:30 AM

kat that is gorgeous, where can I see and learn more about the works and creators?

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 11:21 AM

YES! kat! That was the one I was looking for when I started my post. "resonant chamber"....I just couldn't remember the name.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 11:17 AM

There are no Big Bangs but rather a collision or,,,, an expansion after great compression inside a super massive black hole.

in other words

There are 2 possiblilities in my way of thinking in the creation of a universe...

#1 a black hole creating a universe seperate from our own

#2 a COLLISION of 2 universes (the intersection of 2 branes of existence) that have enough in common somehow to allow an interaction.

or for kids under 4 years of age....
#3 god did it 6000 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 10:36 AM

I once read a book called 'The Nature of Reality' by David Deutsch. I think that this book was about the 'Many Worlds' explanation of quantum mechanics. I'm not too sure, though, because my brain shrivelled!

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 12:21 AM

No, Bill. They will play it on one of THESE (Quicktime movie)

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bert
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:30 PM

Well terminology seems to be one problem here.

Universe conventionally means 'everything there is'

But, that doesn't preclude there being many BIG BANGS within that everything.

Every time that man has tried to define the Universe his answer has always come up WAY TOO SMALL.

So I would say that Gulliver is absolutely correct in surmising that many big bangs have ocurred. Whether you call them parts of the one universe or the creation of separate universes is just a question of semantics.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:20 PM

Time is also a construct of view; it seems perfectly possible to me to have a universe where time goes in two directions, or even detours in loops of various sequence for entertainment.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:55 PM

After a trip through this thread, the only thing rolling in Einstein's grave might be a joint . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:12 PM

I'm taking bookings for this alternative universe, where you can eat pork pies and chocolate without getting fat; politics are illegal; the universal drink is Talisker and independence day is celebrated every year by colourful folk dances to traditional tunes like Louie Louie.

Unaccompanied ballad singing of songs longer than three verses is punishable by death.

Terms and conditions apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:06 PM

Only if you had the time for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:03 PM

If one could arrange to be in several universes at the same "time", it would increase the odds of achieving multiple orgasms...

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:01 PM

Sorry. I reread your post for the sixth time and it says that time is a creation/result of space. We assume that this was the only universe created by the big bang, but that's an assumption.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

Why think that time is limited to our universe?

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Gulliver
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:51 PM

In an attempt to get back to the thread .... (thanks everyone for the entertaining comments!), there is the factor of TIME. When space is so constrained (as at the time of the Big Bang), I read that time is slowed to almost nothing (in fact it may not have existed--another mind-blowing concept!), due to a space/time relationship thing. So if TIME is limited to our universe, how can there be other universes?

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:05 PM

ah, yes...9-dimensional 'folkieness'...played on one of these

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Peace
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

That is very funny, McG of H.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:28 PM

Maybe when they come up with these quantum computers we'll find ourselves getting into discussions with people from alternative Mudcats in other universes. "What is folk?..."

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:12 PM

I thought the term multiverse referred to the collection of "universes", rather than to a single one of these. Assuming there is a collection of them. Perhaps "cosmos" might be a better term to adopt than universe in this context.

"near infinite " - that's an oxymoron. No matter how big a finite number is, it's still no nearer to infinite...

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:10 PM

Myrrzy,
we can have many different dimensions in our own universe but to create a space time bubble with its own exponential growth it is thought it can be done with only 30 lbs of matter under near infinite pressure.

IF you had a device to make that pressure in your basement you could put a 30lbs of bread dough in that oven and poof a new universe would be born.
Your house should be just fine since the resulting universe would sprout entirely outside our space time universe.

Usually those pressure ovens are inside super massive black holes.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:02 PM

When we look at the possibliity of multiple universes the first proof we have is the intermediate interactive gravity enabled cores of black holes in which universes generate Mega global customized dimensions and schemas between disparate universes. In this out-of-the-box vertical relationship, we can visualize frictionless cross-platform vertices of non intersecting universi on different dimensional constraints and see how they enable end-to-end frictionless functionalities. The emerging metadata helps us see the objectives of each transforming and emerging universe from within different black holes. IF we refigure entity-relationshiped next-generation universes with precision we can get a handle on the Mega scale and document interactive scalable solutions to this question.
















hey kids,,, you too can be the jargon king and impress and BS your teacher or boss... http://www.strauss.za.com/sla/newspeak.html

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:55 PM

Thank you for that excellent bit on the multiverse/quantum mechanics thingie, I've read a lot of sci-fi based on it and nobody put it quite that way. Best example = Timeline (the book, not the movie, where they had to take the science out).
I think that the way it works is that time is an actual physical dimension of which we only perceive its intersection with our perceived three dimensions of space (like the squares in Flatland), which we receive as Now. Which means that all other times exist, just not where we are, but we can do the thought exxperiment of if we COULD be there, this is what we'd get as "now" (and it could be anything).

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:42 PM

I have been of the multiverse opinion for about 15 years.

I believe they are born within black holes and possibly some super nova.

When the universe was young and things were closer the collection of super massive black holes and their collisions were huge and could be what we now call quasars.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:39 PM

Wow! And He told you about this, Shaneo? Send him over...I have a few questions about the details.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Shaneo
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:36 PM

There was no big bang , God made the world , have faith people

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:32 PM

Multiverse sounds like a very long poem - or the place you can watch a movie.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:29 PM

And the tiny ones -- like ours -- are called (by those in the Know -- "punyverses".


A

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:48 PM

And the truly odd ones are called "perverse."

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:14 PM

Multiverse is the new word, or better the new meaning for an old word as used in "the English multiverse ballad".

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:12 PM

I looked behind me, and what did I find?




an Obverse!

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

We could call empty ones "blankverses."

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:07 AM

1. All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole. 2a. The earth together with all its inhabitants and created things. b. The human race. 3. The sphere or realm in which something exists or takes place. 4. Logic See universe of discourse. 5. Statistics See population (sense 5).
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French univers, from Latin niversum, from neuter of niversus, whole : nus, one; see oi-no- in Appendix I + versus, past participle of vertere, to turn; see wer-2 in Appendix I.

From the American heritage.

In other realms of discourse, the term means, essentially, a closed system of things taken in its entirety.

In quantum science this is sometimes known as the "many worlds theory".

Wikipedia: "The many-worlds interpretation or MWI (also known as relative state formulation, theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, Oxford interpretation or many worlds), is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that claims to resolve all the "paradoxes" of quantum theory by allowing every possible outcome to every event to define or exist in its own "history" or "world", via the mechanism of quantum decoherence, instead of wavefunction collapse. Proponents argue that MWI reconciles how we can perceive non-deterministic events (such as the random decay of a radioactive atom) with the deterministic equations of quantum physics; history, which prior to many worlds had been viewed as a single "world-line", is rather a many-branched tree where every possible branch of history is realised.

The relative state formulation is due to Hugh Everett[1] who formulated it in 1957. Later, this formulation was popularised and renamed many worlds by Bryce Seligman DeWitt in the 1960s and '70s.[2][3][4][5] The decoherent approach to interpreting quantum theory has been further explored and developed[6][7][8] becoming quite popular, taken as a class overall. MWI is one of many multiverse hypotheses in physics and philosophy. It is currently considered a mainstream interpretation along with the other decoherent interpretations and the Copenhagen interpretation."

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 10:02 AM

Depends.

What do you mean by "universe", "multiple", and "be."

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: GUEST,Boring old pedant
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:25 AM

The 'uni' part means that there is only one. If there's more than one, we gotta think of a new name.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Grab
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 07:31 AM

Last I heard, the "multiple universes" thing in physics was a way of doing the maths to make the quantum mechanics drop out with a sensible answer under certain conditions, because of it all using probabilities instead of known states. This doesn't necessarily mean the universe does it that way.

As a ferinstance, suppose I go to my online bank and transfer £10 from one account to another. This means that I can now take out £10 more from the second account. But it doesn't mean that a physical £10 note has ever moved location.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:25 AM

Maybe if you don't wash your socks at all, Bill, it'll last forever. Would you be willing to make such a sacrifice on behalf of an endangered world? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:11 PM

Not only there could be, there SHOULD be multiple universes. Otherwise what do we use all those universal joins for?
(Not to be confused with "universal joints", which were Woozy John's joints, as they were passed around in an open ended spiral until they reached escape velocity - that is, they never returned to John).

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 11:11 PM

Four out of five universes are undecided on the question.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:48 PM

...and then maybe not. Depends on how long it takes to wash your socks.

Subject: RE: BS: Could there be multiple universes?
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 10:46 PM

Yep...Kaku may be right....we may someday collide with some other universe and go BANG. Pardon me if I refrain from hiding under the bed...*grin*

THIS universe is about 14 Billion years old now, we are told....maybe it will last until I get my socks washed....