Martin 00 wanted.

Subject: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:30 AM

I'm looking for an old (pre 1925) 12 fret Martin 00 guitar. Does anyone have one for sale or know of one for sale- preferably in the UK? Thanks.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:37 AM

Try EBay.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 09:47 AM

There's nothing on ebay, nor has there been, but thanks for thought.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:11 AM

Hope you're ready to spend LOTS of money...

Incidentally:

My brother-in-law has (or, at least, used to have) a pre-1900 small parlor-guitar-size Martin, in terrible shape ~ smashed to bits, actually.

He brought it to a highly-regarded luthier, who told him the cost of repairing it would exceed its value. He said that Martins that old weren't really very good instruments; it was only later that they began making the high-quality guitars that established the company's reputation.

Just one man's opinion, but interesting...

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

I'd be tempted to call of few of the guitar shops that are likely to have something like this and ask them to tell you when the next one shows up. You might not find one sitting on a shelf to buy now but that doesn't mean that one won't show up in a store in the next few weeks or months.

Among others I'd call and get on the list at Mandolin Bros, Cotton Music, Buffalo Brothers, Gruhns, - there are a dozen more you could try.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 12:52 PM

Wesley: I was hoping to find one in the UK- that way I could try it first, but thanks for the constructive comments and information.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:36 PM

I was looking at a very plain looking 1946 Martin at Lincolnshire Showground Antique Fair a week last Sunday and the guy said "That ones better it's from 1890 ish".....but in retrospect did not say it was a Martin and I didn't look too closely at it as I was busy actually looking for other things. Another Antique Fair there in perhaps a couple of weeks so will chat to the guy and ask him what he has at home or wherever and can he help. I'll maybe get his phone number and pass it on to you if he's agreeable....Just looked and there is another Fair on 7th May... Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest.
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 01:40 PM

That's very kind indeed of you Mike, thank you.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:30 PM

Good luck with that very specific requirement...how strictly are you looking for a specific double-O designation, and do you have a particular model in mind?

If a mahogany body is acceptable, this well-known US dealer has a 1925 2-17, 12-fret:
http://www.vintagemandolin.com/instruments.html#martinguitars

Quite reasonable price too. If his 1950 double-O 18 is too modern for you, I'll accept contributions towards finding it a good home...

I'm looking at the Martin production totals in Longworth's book, the most common OO was always the OO-18, but even of that, there were only 20-100 made each year from 1910 to 1924. 101 in 1920 was the biggest run. Smaller numbers--under 40 per year--of OO-21's and OO-28's were produced then, and very small numbers of OO-42's and OO-45's (read: stratospheric prices for any still existing of the always-collectible higher-model-numbers).

If you go to http://www.mandoweb.com/1_Acoustic.htm and search for "Geoff Muldaur" you will find a new line of Martins that seem to be reissues of the qualities you seek. Not cheap but very appealing.

Looking for a ragtime fingerpicking-type special are you?

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:47 PM

Thanks Willie- No I don't want a modern one or a size 2, I want a 12-fret one made for gut strings, ideally a 28 but maybe an 18, so a 19th C one would fit the bill- or first quarter of the 20th C. I know they are uncommon but I thought someone in the UK may have one for sale or know of one- that way I could see and her it before buying.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Wesley S
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:03 PM

Many years ago I had a friend with a Martin New Yorker - strung up with nylon strings. That was a sweet guitar. I'd love to see one again and take it out for a test drive.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: pirandello
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:16 PM

I believe Martin only began building guitars braced specifically for steel strings in 1922 so anything prior to that date will be braced less heavily and consequently will be more responsive to the lighter tension of nylon strings.
Good luck with your search but I think, as has been suggested, you'll have a much better chance of finding something in the USA.
Early Martins, if they do ever show up here, are either grossly overpriced or snapped up very quickly by collectors-frequently before they even have a chance to get on a shop wall.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Owlkat
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:31 PM

Dear Guest,
A guitar that old is going to be very fragile and extremely expensive, as well as requiring serious insurance coverage. For what you can expect to pay for such a vintage instrument, there are, at the very least, dozens of veteran luthiers who could build you the guitar of your dreams for much less. Heck, if you wanted one like Willien Nelson's 28 style, they would probably hack a hole in the top for you as well.
Owl.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:11 PM

Longworth lists total production of 00-28's 1898-1924 as 381.

Gruhn Guitars has the closest I've seen to what you're looking for:
Nice pics too.

http://gruhnguitars.com/

AB7066 Martin 0-42, 1904, professionally refinished, original abalone top trim, genuine ivory bridge, extremely rare model, 1 of 5 made in 1904, HC, REDUCED FROM $12,500...........$9500

Also a couple of old 0-28's, including an 1880:

AB7309 Martin 0-28 (More photos...) , circa 1880, EXC, top refinished, three expertly repaired top cracks, original solid peghead with friction tuners, correct period Martin wood "coffin" HC......$7500

omigod...they also have a triple-O 45 (1921) formerly owned by David Grisman. Appropriately priced at 45 grand.

I gotta stop looking at these things. Still curious--if you want such a guitar for playing, what style?

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:27 PM

None of those fit the bill, Bill- none are 00s, but thanks for your efforts. I want one to play parlour and salon guitar pieces on.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:47 PM

I know they're not the specific body size OO, that's part of the point I'm making. There were roughly comparable production numbers of single-O and double-O until 1917 (when single-O's went up to a few hundred a year, while the OO's stayed under 100 except for 101 in 1920 and 150 in 1925), yet the old OO's don't seem to be on the market as much now with the most prominent US vintage dealers.

So there are specific guitar instrumentals from that period one can still find music to? Nice.

Good luck. I'm a sucker for these kind of quixotic quests.

W-O

PS, I play an O-18 from the reviled 70's, but it has been played enough to be a 1925!

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

Thanks for comments- it's beginning to look as though my quixotic (great word!)quest might be fruitless though, unless Mike (from earlier) comes up with something.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GLoux
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 09:00 AM

From Vintage Instruments in Philadelphia:

15. MARTIN, 00-18, 1931, 12-fret slotted head, 1-7/8" nut width, no top or back cracks, long but neatly repaired hairline crack in the lower bass rib, neck recently reset, attractive narrow curl mahogany neck, bar frets, plays very comfortably with great clarity and sustain, recent hardshell case, , (Our #26913) $7,500.

-Greg

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: pirandello
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 01:50 PM

Did you think about a small body Gibson from the same period? The L, L-OO and L-1 are delightful guitars; toneful, well built, light as a feather and more readily affordable than a similar Martin.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 03:30 PM

Gregg- Thanks for the kind thought but I want one built for nylon strings- a 1931 will be built for steel (which helps explain the high price incidentally)- hence my pre-1925 requirement. Pirandello- I entirely agree about those Gibsons- I have a 12-fret L 0- but same comment as to Gregg applies really, but thanks for suggestion. Lots of nice people giving advice but no guitars yet!

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Phot
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 03:40 PM

Try Mansons Gituars in Exeter, the place is huge, the staff are good, so they might be able to point you in the right direction.

Wassail!! Chris.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 07:48 PM

Thanks Chris, I'll give them a go, meanwhile would still like to hear from anybody else who's got one to sell or knows of one.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 09:35 PM

I owned a 1928 Gibson L-O once! Brash funky sound that I loved, but terrible intonation. I can't see it as being close to what you seek.

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Apr 07 - 09:49 PM

Take another look at that site GLoux linked to--the very next guitar listed appears to meet your requirements if Style 21 is acceptable. Brazilian rosewood body, yikes!   

at http://www.vintage-instruments.com/navigate/catidx5.htm

16. MARTIN, 00-21, 1919, 12-fret, slotted-head, 1-7/8"width at nut,
etc...
cut-to-chase: $5500 US

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 07:22 AM

Ah! A distinct possibility (though rather overpriced). Will be worth considering if nothing comes up in the UK. Well spotted, thanks a lot Bill.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 08:33 AM

Pretty too. Overpriced, of course! --you have to expect that on a vintage M-word rosewood from any era.

When I bought my O-18 in 1980, it was from a music store that was having a sale on Martins--an unheard of event now. I paid $515 Cdn for mine, but for only $675 I could have had a lovely new OO-21, which my friend that worked there urged me to get. The difference seemed a lot at the time. The difference in value would be a lot more now--I've never even seen a style 21 since then.

I'm happy with the O-18, but sometimes wonder what became of that other guitar.

That www.vintage-instruments.com site is quite something--they aren't kidding about the 'Vintage' tag. Not only do they have lots of 1800's pieces, they have a guitar made in 1790 and a mandolin from about 1665. Both playable. Holy cow.

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: pirandello
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 09:35 AM

1665, the year of the Great Plague! I hope it's been thoroughly disinfected!

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GLoux
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:58 AM

Vintage Instruments is a wonderful shop in Philadelphia run by Fred Oster. He's now in two different shops...one for guitars...one for everything else. Fred does appraisals for Christies in NYC...I've seen him on Antiques Roadshow giving appraisals on instruments...

If you're ever in Philadelphia and have time, the shops are well worth a visit, if only to drool...

-Greg

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:18 AM

Yeah, I sensed that, Greg! My wife grew up near Philly and likes to go there now and then...maybe I'll actually go with her one of these times.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 06:31 PM

Now looking unlikely that I'll hear from a seller in the UK but I've had some helpful answers, thanks to everyone who took the trouble to respond.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,felix
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 04:59 AM

i own a martin 00-18, with a serial number that puts it early 1922. it is in good original condition, one repaired crack below the bridge.
it is light as a feather. i use it with light silk and steel strings - the guitar is very responsive, remarkably loud for its size but crisp and not muddy sounding at all. very nice! see pictures:
http://www.wiedler.ch/guitars/
instruments like these are rather difficult to find these days i guess. well, i thought about selling this fine old martin since i play mostly my archtops now. no idea what would be a fair price since i hardly see these pre-1925 martins for sale. offers/suggestions?

felix

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 10:54 PM

Looks like close to what he wants...what is the serial number, and where are you and the guitar located? I don't recognize the .ch domain. Holy crap, is that in China?


You need to consult an unbiased expert to establish a fair price. I surmise that if a similar period OO-21 like the one I found above goes for $5000 (assuming a bit of haggling from the asking price of 5500), 3-4000 might be ballpark for an OO-18 in good shape. Just a guess. I suspect it's more of a collectors' than a players' market, and for better or worse the O-series 18's are not the most sought-after by collectors, although neither are they disdained. The more O's, the better the price.

I'm surprised Guest hasn't responded yet, he's been following his thread closely (which speaks well of him!)

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,felix
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 02:14 AM

serial number of this martin 00-18 is 16845.

what i don't know: how can you determine if a particular guitar is braced for gut vs. steel strings? i have studied quite a few books on martin guitars but never seen any specs for the bracing bar widths/depth (only for position of the x or scalloped vs. non-scalloped shape etc.). i have read that the martin model 18 specs were changed to steel string bracing by 1923 as a standard but apparently steel was available as an option before. any ideas?

guest has contacted me directly.

i will be on holiday for 2 weeks and not on the net - i will check back beginning of may...

thanks!

felix

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 07:11 AM

One of my cousins recently quit playing and he sold his pre war Martin dreadnaught for $2000.00. Should I smack him?

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: pirandello
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 07:44 AM

Suggestion; buy Vintage Guitar magazine. It's a US publication full of ads for vintage dealers. You might find what you want in there.
Good luck
Andrew

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 08:40 AM

Good idea, thanks Andrew. For anyone interested in the questions Felix raised, look at the Martin guitar forum, vintage corner, where a number of threads deal with this issue, the latest being one started on 4 March. There's no hard and fast rule of thumb but it seems that 0018s were beefed up for steel strings from 1923. In my experience dealers are well aware that buyers want models made for steel strings and will tend to claim that steel or silk and steel are fine in marginal cases, or even in cases where the guitar is completely unsuitable. Bill: good comments (again). Valuation is complicated by the fact that collectors want perfect examples and preferably brazilian rosewood models, and players want models braced for steel.The domain is Switzerland- so my hope to find one to try before I buy is looking like a lost cause. Kendall: no, it's sympathy and support he needs, and possibly professional counseling.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: Willie-O
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 02:58 PM

Kendall I imagine he is smacking himself. I know how he feels to some extent having made some rather poorly considered selloffs myself in the past...1970 Tele thinline (modified, but still...) for $400, about ten years ago. In a bar, but I wasn't drinking! But if your cousin is happy with the house he lives in now, and didn't feel the need to buy a new one...ah never mind, it's done.

Of course, .ch is Switzerland. Why did I not guess that?

W-O

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 02:24 PM

Refresh- (well you never know!)

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Felix
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:39 AM

Hi
I have a 1924 OO-18 in wonderful condition. I have owned it since 1975, when I was given it by my ex-girlfriend's grandfather, who had owned it since new- so it is a 2-owner guitar. He only played 'Hawaiian style' on it - so it hadn't been fretted until I got it. It had slight intonation issues - so I had a reknowned Australian luthier fit a replacement bridge with a compensated saddle in 1976. I still have the original bridge. It comes in its original, hand-stitched, top-loading leather case. It sounds incredible, great balance across the strings and amazingly resonant. A strummed chord lasts 17 seconds to inaudible. It is the loudest small-bodied guitar I have ever played and eats my OM28V in all departments. The 1924 was built for both steel & nylon strings. I use silk & steel to lessen neck tension.
I travel to the UK occasionally. If you are genuinely interested, I would part with it for around 9,000 pounds.
email: [e-mail]
Otherwise - eat your heart out!
Cheers
Felix

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:11 PM

was/is there a Martin O16NY...and if so, how much is it worth in excellent condition? ...know a guy who has one and wants to sell it...

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:29 PM

If all else fails, you can ask Martin to build one for you. I believe they still have all their patterns. If they do, you can have the joy of developing the instrument's sound from new to rich for yourself...at a much lower prive than a vintage would cost.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Ernie
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 01:00 AM

I have a 1954 OO-18G, serial 136844. The G stands for gut string. This one's in excellent shape, plays and sounds great. It has a pick-up installed with a pin jack through the strap button at the bottom of the guitar, so it hasn't hurt the guitar at all. It sounds great amplified as well...not sure what make of pick-up it has installed. I might consider selling it, but not even sure what it's worth. Make me an offer. I'm in Nashville, TN. and my email address is [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 06:30 AM

I'm the original poster and have just noticed that this thread has come back to life recently nearly four years after my original post. To those who have posted recently- iI did find what I wanted thanks... but if anyone knows of Martin coffin case....

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:16 PM

I have a 1967 Martin 00-21. Have a 1929 0-21 as well. You can't have either of mine. Good luck.

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 02:20 PM

I disagree. Prior to 1923 Martins were designed for gut strings and thus were not braced as heavily as latter models. By 1928 all were made for steel unless they had a C or G prefix. You can play light stells on the older and they will work find and sound far superior to anything made today. Best years---1929-1933...before they started "overbuilding" the tops to withstand heavy strings.

Chris Martin

Subject: RE: Martin 00 wanted.
From: GUEST,Guest- Original poster
Date: 17 Feb 11 - 05:00 PM

Not sure what the last two posts are for but in case anyone is in any doubt, I repeat, I did find what I was looking for so the matter is closed- except that I would rather like a Martin coffin case if anyone gets wind of one.