efdss song writing competion 2007

Subject: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:54 PM

Can anyone tell me the winner of this competition, the finals of which were held at Cheltenham festival?

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 06:28 PM

Gene Burton from Southampton with his song The Gold Country.
Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 06:31 PM

Thanks Derek

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:44 PM

I didn't think the EFDSS encouraged this sort of thing!

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:52 PM

Well, you were wrong.

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: alanabit
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:58 PM

I guess you can read good news here as well as bad news!

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 05:27 AM

I think it is an excellent idea, well done e.f.d.s.s.
here is another idea for efdss,this might take quite alot of thought,but to copy comlhaltas ideas of having fireside sessions,for children,but playing and singing english tunes and songs,or maybe initially one session in the folk club room, downstairs at sharp house.,perhaps once a month.
DO EFDSS still have branches,and would it be possible to do what comhaltas do[eg fireside sessions at local level].
the fireside sessions are definitely a progressive move by comhaltas,and are proving successful.
comhaltas also have a comhaltas og [youth section]which is popular and successful.

Subject: RE: EFDSS Songwriting Competion
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 06:25 PM

Hear more of Gene's work at www.myspace.com/geneburtonmusic - contact details are there should anybody wish to purchase his dubious wares...

Subject: efdss song writing competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 04:52 AM

some months ago I offered to donate 200 sterling,specifically for a songwriting competition for EFDSS I offered to judge the competition,and to come over from Ireland free of charge,to do this.
John Adams at least had the courtesy to thank me for this offer,since then I have heard nothing.
I would of course be happy to reach a mutual agreement for a different judge,mutually acceptable to both EFDSS and myself.
My idea was to try and help efdss and potential songwriters,in a specific way.
Last year efdss were involved in a songwriting competition at cheltenham festival,I thought this was one of the more positive things Efdss had done,,and would be good to repeat again

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:01 AM

*rolls eyes*

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:04 AM

Ruth Archer, do you not wish to help songwriters,why are you so negative.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:05 AM

because you're like a dog with a flippin' bone, Dick.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Sugwash
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:09 AM

Bless you for trying Cap'n. I'm surprised to hear that EFDSS have run such things in the past, I'd thought them pickled in aspic.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:19 AM

They did one competition as part of the 75th anniversary celebrations this year.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 07:30 AM

well Ruth, talking of dogs,your effrontery in suggesting that I offered to sponsor a competition purely for self aggrandisemenT[see whats happening with EFDSS thread]is like a dog in the manger.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:26 AM

Why should the FOLK song society assist songwriting? Or a bicycle manufacturer host a motor car manufacturing competition, or a swimming club a regatta?

Maybe a competition to perform or arrange a FOLK song or tune.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:41 AM

Oh god, I can see it happening again... And we just closed that last thread on what is folk a couple of weeks ago. Is it that time of the year already?

But Richard is right, Dick - the EFDSS does not promote the creation of new songs, so it would have no reason to support such an intitiative. Turkeys and Christmas. I am a little surprised that they did it last year, really.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: GUEST,hw
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 10:59 AM

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: GUEST,hw
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:05 AM

Actually, I think it would be rather a good idea for them to promote writing 'in a tradtional style' or 'in the spirit of the tradition'. After all, all songs were written at some point in the past and to promote the position of song in the community, encouraging the writing of new ones might enable people to better understand the different roles traditional songs played in the past.

It is entirely possible that the input of someone of Dick's standing in the folk world might inspire some new thinking in EFDSS, so it wouldn't occur to me to knock him for making a generous suggestion.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

Of course anyone who is prepared to offer a prize could organise such a competition..open to whoever...independent of any organisation.
From little acorns, large oaks do grow.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 12:12 PM

Dick, a number of festivals offer songwriting or singing competitions.

Instead of giving the impression (rightly or wrongly) that because the EFDSS have not taken you up on this you are using it as stick to beat them up, offer it to a festival organiser or two.......or even via the AFO.

And I´ll chuck in 25.00 GBP to increase the total.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 12:37 PM

Guest hw, someone of Dick's standing in the folk world should perhaps join EFDSS if he wants to inspire new thinking within the organisation.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 02:30 PM

See what happens when you stick your head above the parapet, Dick.

That'll certainly encourage others to make similar generous offers, won't it.

It almost makes me wish I'd taken up Jazz instead.....Almost

Keep trying mate. Who knows, one day the response MIGHT equal the offer for generosity.

Don T.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 03:05 PM

Ruth, I live in Ireland.
my joining EFDSS,makes less sense than you joining Comhaltas,at least Comhaltas have branches in England,EFDSS dont even have branches any more.
I once knew a lass from Borset,
In anger she broke her corset,
the small matter that upset her,
was the posting of a letter.
re EFDSS S, demise in Dorset.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:02 PM

I just think it's a bit rich, as a member of an organisation, that someone who is NOT a member of that organisation, and who spends a fair bit of time criticising it, thinks he should have a say in its future direction just because he's put 200 quid on the table.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:03 PM

By the way, Dick, if that's an example of your lyric writing skills I can see why you're sponsoring contests rather than entering them.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:41 PM

Ruth Archer,You will be interested to hear that my song writing skills have been praised by people whos opinion,[such as John Connolly,RichardGrainger]I value more than yours.
if you dont know the difference between a song and a limerick,then you are indeed a bigger ass than I thought you were.
I have offered to sponsor a song writing competition[nothing more nothing less,].
I do not wish to have a say in its [EFDSS]future direction,but I have every right to criticise an organisation without being a member.,in fact I raised three positives about the EFDSS,and if you re read my prevoius posts you will see that I have frequently praised them ,and the hard working volunteers.
all of us criticise political parties without necessarily being members.
One person on this forum , Jim Carroll has criticised both Comhaltas and EFDSS,[he is amember of neither]I dont have aproblem with that,constructive criticism is an important part of free speech.
Firstly you tried to make out that I wanted to sponsor a song writing competition for my own self aggrandisement,
Now you say that I wish to sponsor a song writing competition so that I can have some say in EFDSS future[make up your mind]
you have been derogatory about my motives,and unecessarily aggressive,.and not very pleasant.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Blowzabella
Date: 19 Apr 07 - 05:59 PM

I'm not stepping into the EFDSS argument but i will definitely praise your song writing skills, Dick.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 08:18 AM

here is a copy of a message I sent to John Adams dec28 2006.Dear John if efdss national council dont like my suggestion.Iwould be happy to sponsor a song competition at some other time.
FOUR MONTHS have passed,[as everyone can see there are no strings attached]and there has not been one communication to me from EFDSS.
This is fact,Iam not using this as a stick to beat anyone,NEITHER am I sponsoring a competition for my own self aggrandisement,or to have some say in EFDSS policy.
I am still waiting to hear from EFDSS ,and am still waiting for an apology from Ruth Archer.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: GUEST,HW
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 08:47 AM

FolkieDave - you make a good point that several festivals (and radio stations etc) offer song writing competitions, but I just wonder whether Dick had in mind that the EFDSS might be able to offer something a little different. I can't speak for Dick of course, but when I saw the suggestion what I visualised was a competition that could reach more people, and in a different way, to the festivals.

If there were to be a national competition it should be possible to structure a package for schools, or community organisations (or even folk clubs or regional folk bodies) that could at the same time encourage research into traditional songs and participation in other events whilst offering the competition (and it's prize(s)) as an incentive. Good publicity for the society, and a good way of making traditional music relevant to today's generation by encouraging children (and adults) to think about why the songs were sung in the past and what aspects of today's world they would like to see celebrated in the same way.

I guess it could be as big or small an undertaking as you cared to make it, and it could well be that the EFDSS is not interested in that particular area. But that does not mean that there is no merit in making the suggestion.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 09:18 AM

Well, to organise such an event would take someones time and energy and need some funding if only for brochures and stamps.

So far the offered contributions are 200 quid from Dick and 25 from me.´

As Ruth Archer has pointed out élsewhere - the EFDSS is jointly sponsoring Shooting Roots this summer and I reckon that is just as good a use of their cash, possible better sincethere will be no winners and losers that way, but a lot of beneficiaries.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: johnadams
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 09:27 AM

I have to apologise to Dick for a lack of reply to his offer.

As I work at strategic rather than operational level, I got distracted and never followed the offer through. A month in Australia/Malaysia and a heavy academic load are my only mitigating circumstances.

As I have a huge load on at the moment, especially having picked up the CD and Tunebook project from my dear recently departed friend Barry Callaghan, I can't guarantee to be any more efficient at this stage. Maybe an offer in writing to the folks at C#H would be a better way forward - it is an operational matter.

Apologies.

J

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 10:22 AM

I should clarify that it's not a monetary partnership with EFDSS; it's more a case of making extra teaching and learning resources available. We're delighted to have them on board.

"If there were to be a national competition it should be possible to structure a package for schools, or community organisations (or even folk clubs or regional folk bodies) that could at the same time encourage research into traditional songs and participation in other events whilst offering the competition (and it's prize(s)) as an incentive. Good publicity for the society, and a good way of making traditional music relevant to today's generation by encouraging children (and adults) to think about why the songs were sung in the past and what aspects of today's world they would like to see celebrated in the same way."

As Dave says, this would be pretty costly to adminsiter. It would need a grant, I expect. I think EFDSS has much bigger fish to fry, grant-wise, at present. And I hate to piddle in anybody's cornflakes, but if that's what Dick's actually suggesting, it looks like a significant policy strand to me, and as I said before, I think it would be nice if such suggestions were being made from inside, rather than people shouting them through the doors.

Anyway, EFDSS have already run a national songwriting competition this year. The question is whether it's the sort of thing the society ought to be adopting as a major strand of activity. As a member, I don't think so. The competitive side of organisations like comhaltas is something that many people take exception to.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Bert
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 10:29 AM

We have songwriting competitions here from time to time Captain Birdseye, we call them song challenges. Join in and have fun.

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: GUEST,HW
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 11:29 AM

to Ruth Archer - sorry - I really didn't mean to sound as if I was speaking for Dick - which I definately wasn't - I was just musing out loud as to how I could see his suggestion being relevant. And yes - I agree it would take a lot of administration and may well not fit in with all the other activities in the EFDSS. But at least it got me, and perhaps others, thinking about song writing, EFDSS and life in general!

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 12:16 PM

Always good things to be musing on, HW! :)

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: GUEST,an observer
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 01:56 PM

Can I just mention, should anyone be interested, that the 75th anniversary songwriting comp (@ Cheltenham) was won by Gene Burton- check out his dubious talents at www.myspace.com/geneburtonmusic

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 07 - 07:14 PM

Call to me my sad captains.......

if they can't incorporate you into their view of songwriting and the tradition - why they b'ain't no better than bilgewater,,,,,,(Robert Newton said that)

Subject: RE: efdss song writing competion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Apr 07 - 03:24 AM

I have (IMHO) a better idea. Why not have a competition for the performance or arrangement of any folk song or tune (or words surviving without tune)? Four classes - solo unaccompanied, harmony unaccompanied, acoustic and electric.

That way, in stead of replacing folk music and song with something else (which may be perfectly good, and may deserve to find a place in people's hearts and survive but it isn't "folk") the organiser of the competition would be actively helping the tradition both to survive and to adapt and compete in the modern music environment.

Another important thing that needs to be carried on is the competition from the now defunct English Nats, for the best performance of a traditional unaccompanied English folk song.