Is anyone else as scared as I am?

Subject: RE: Is anyone else as scared as I am?
From: Ross
Date: 16 Apr 99 - 02:37 PM

What the heck... I've often wondered how the world watched 6 million Jews be killed, before stopping it. I'm not a fan of Clinton & his policies, & I don't know what we of the world "should" be doing, but I'm glad that at least something is being tried to stop it. As for the Indians, as far as I can tell, "my people" didn't do much to them. I think some bad things happened to them, & they did some bad things. Regardless there is no way that no one else would have come here by 1999 if the English/French/Germans hadn't. It would have been China, Japan, or Russia by now, so let's all move on.

Subject: RE: Is anyone else as scared as I am?
From: LEJ
Date: 16 Apr 99 - 03:05 PM

I know these comments will open another can of worms, but I felt I had to respond to the statement by Ethan that the "Indian Wars were without question the largest and most successful act of genocide in history."

First of all, much of the decline of the eastern tribes was due to disease introduced by the white settlers. I suppose that could be called involuntary genocide if you have a tendency toward political correctness. Initial disputes between white settlers and native american tribes were compounded by the over wielding sanctity of property rights as practiced in white society, and the tradition of raiding and theft as a legitimate means of acquisition by the Indian. Another contributing factor was the bribery and use as mercenaries of tribes during the French and Indian Wars, and through the early 1800's. Scalping, which was a traditional means of gaining medicine from the victim by the slayer, became a means of paying bounties for the killing of enemy soldiers and settlers. Such a grim and violent behavior invited like behavior in return, and atrocities were continued by both white and indian.

Absorption became the rule for indian people who refused to be moved west by the settlers' expansion. I inherited Cherokee blood from my Great-Grandmother, whose family farmed alongside my Scots-Irish Great-Grandfather in Kentucky.But perhaps this absorption was also genocide.

As American expansion reached the Great Plains, conflict became inevitable between settlers, many of whom were scandinavian, German, Irish etc, and the tribes who claimed the vast territory as hunting ground. Violence ran particularly high between warlike tribes such as the Sioux,Cheyenne, Shoshone and Apache and these settlers. Acts of slaughter and dismemberment, which were common among warring tribes, created fear, horror and hate in the settlers and their Army protectors. Inexcusable acts of brutality were an outgrowth of this- Sand Creek and The Battle of the Washita as examples. Little Bighorn was another. In a bitter war of attrition, slaughter was carried out on both sides.

We still carry a legacy of prejudice and misunderstanding in America that stems from these events. Numerous treaty violations by the US government have done their part to perpetuate the mistrust. But today, American tribes find themselves powerful in terms of resource rights and land holdings, and with a great deal of political leverage as well. One of our two senators from Colorado is a full blooded Ute.

These are the historical facts of the history of white man and Indian in our country. Before comparisons are made with the gross extermination of millions of people in Europe in the 1940's are made, perhaps some attention should be paid to these facts.

LEJ

Subject: RE: Is anyone else as scared as I am?
From: Ethan Mitchell
Date: 16 Apr 99 - 04:00 PM

OK. I'm off the topic. And I find it divisive and disingenuous to compare the legitimate sufferings of one people with the legitimate sufferings of another people. But here I am doing it anyway. During World War II, roughly 10 million were killed in cold blood, and another 40 million were killed during combat. During the US slave trade, it is estimated that 30 million Africans died during forced marches or shipping. The *lowest* figure I have seen for the death toll of the Native Americans is some 100 million. Yes, a great deal of that was involuntary infection. However, the intention and capability on the part of the Europeans was very clear, and in fact there is good evidence that here in the Northeast some of the spread of smallpox *was* intentional: the first biological warfare. Bartolome De Las Casas: 'Afterwards the Spaniards resolved to go and hunt the Indians who were in the mountains, where they perpetrated marvellous massacres. Thus they ruined and depopulated all this island...' Please, please, please, I am not interested in playing whose-is-bigger with anybody's grief. But I do not think the oppression of the (few) survivors of the Indian Wars is over, and I do not think we who are living on their land are in a position to say 'OK, let's put that behind us and move on.' And I think that it is precisely this kind of moral low-ground which allows America to carpet-bomb civilians in the name of democracy without feeling any dissonance. Bye, Bseed....I think I'll check out of here, too. It is getting hard to load...

Subject: RE: Is anyone else as scared as I am?
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Apr 99 - 05:38 AM

Hint taken. There is a new thread CLICK HERE