bodhrans in sessions

Subject: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 04:30 PM

most people go along to a session to hear melody instruments.
I have noticed on occassions in sessions where there has not been much room,percussionists occupying seats,and cramping the style of fiddlers[who require elbow space ]when they[bodhran bashers] would be better giving up their seats,so that the melody instruments have the space to play properly,.
surely one bodhran player in a session is enough, particuarly when there is not much space.
after all without melody instruments there would be no session.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:55 PM

The serious bodhran players carry their drums in crates big and strong enough to sit on, so while they may take up space, they don't take up seats.

I'm seeing a lot less squadrons of bodhrans than I used to (around Edinburgh). One or two is typical.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 06:05 PM

There are usually plenty of fiddlers & other & stingy things along with buttons & squeezers by the bushels. You get up & give your seat over to a bodhran player first, dam muckers can't keep their timing without a drum or two going at it anyway. Got a problem with space, get there earlier.


Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 06:06 PM

What, bodhran-bashing? That's a first...

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 07:04 PM

Hate 'em

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: bubblyrat
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 05:42 AM

Love 'em ---- in the right hands, of course. Oddly enough, the famous Irish session in the Herschel Arms in Slough,of a Monday night, often takes place without a bodhran player to be seen ( or heard !! ).Two weeks ago, there were 26 musicians playing----some of the finest players of the pipes, flute, banjo,mandolin,guitar ,bouzouki,concertina, fiddle and melodeon as you could find anywhere, and a joyous ( and loud ) sound it was, too------ but NO bodhran player !! Since the pub is the "second home" of the group "MISE", however, we do sometimes get the services of a very fine bodhran-player indeed. And last night we were kept on the beat by a visiting basher from Leicester!!.( Big guy with white hair & beard ---nice bloke !! ). But ---I agree that in untrained hands, they can be exasperating . Tony Blair needs to appoint a " Minister for Percussion", with responsibility for setting up a nationwide network of bodhran workshops !!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,ME
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:25 AM

Like many other percussion instruments bodhrans are seen by some as a quick "entry" into a social/musical scene - an instant sense of belonging (although not always acceptance).
Many people who take up percussion can't carry a tune (generalising), can't recognise a time signature, and overlook the fact that percussion instruments can be just as sensitive, dynamic, exciting and soulful as any other instrument.
A bodhran (or any other percussion) in the right hands is a wonderful thing and most welcome. However . . . I know some who actually make a spectacle (or whatever the aural equivalent is) of themselves and are totally oblivious to the fact that they can't play 'em and are actually annoying others and, therefore, creating an "atmosphere", reducing enjoyment of players and spectators alike and disrupting a good session.

(that last sentence reads like the literary equivalent of a bad bodhran player but I can't be bothered changing it - you'll get my drift)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:30 AM

Yawn ZZZzzzzzzzzzz.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:33 AM

I feel that way about the plethora of fiddle players that seem to congregate wherever I go for a wee song and a session.
G.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Shaneo
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:50 AM

If a guest bodhran player joins the session and he is not any good.
Play a raft of slow songs , he will get the message ,

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:53 AM

I picked up a good tip at the weekend. If you purposely tune your guitar down a semitone, it buggers up all the would be joiners in ¦¬]
Doesn't work for the Bodhrani Beaters though.
G.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Betsy
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:24 AM

Bodhran players are no different to any other player - if they're decent players they're great for a session. Trouble is too many are not good, believing it is an easy instrument to learn/play and therefore an entry ticket to a good seat the session.They need themselves to be seen in the midst of the session.
I've just realised I've almost paraphrased " Guest ME " above. The other mistake duff bodhran players make (again) "believing it is an easy instrument " is to purchase a Tin whistle and squeak away periodically on it.I never heard any of them get a tune out of a whistle.
It's a pity really - I'm sure they buy these things wanting to be loved and part of a musical social group, but having said that, I don't believe many of them actually understands music in its' simplest form.
What can we do, but tolerate them, or, have a cull ?
It is a well-worn social trait , discriminate against those who are least able to defend themselves.
Not so long ago in Ireland it was the melodion which was the butt of this type of thing.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: bubblyrat
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:28 AM

There are lots of budding musicians out there with no, or at least minimal, natural talent or ability. But , there are SOME, and these people need to be able to go and join in with more accomplished musicians, who, in their turn,need to be more tolerant and understanding.Two years ago,when I started playing (guitar) in a "proper" Irish session, I very soon realised ( and had it pointed out to me !! ) that I was making a lot of mistakes, particularly with regard to some of the subleties of Irish time-signatures, and I was forced to face the reality that I was NEVER going to be as good as some of the other Irish ( as in from Ireland ! ) musicians. So I had to learn to NOT play during some pieces, and to learn to play better in others !! I was very lucky to have as a ( very friendly ! ) critic,Irish guitarist, fiddler, singer & songwriter Frank Doherty, who has taught me to approach the guitar as if, rhythmically, it was a bodhran, since doing which I think I have improved somewhat---sometimes, indeed,over the last six months, I have found myself being the ONLY guitar-player---A great honour, considering what I was like when I started !! But I could never have reached that level without the tolerance and understanding of many fine musicians. Perhaps what is needed most is for one or more people , in every session, everywhere, to be a bit more realistic, and have the courage to tell people,if they"re not up to scratch, to desist, whilst perhaps offering to help with a bit of extra tuition !! It CAN work wonders !! And the experience of being able, and allowed, to play along in sessions, is utterly invaluable, for both playing ability and self confidence.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: BanjoRay
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:44 AM

We don't have the bodhran problem in Old Time sessions - the only percussion permitted is that generated by a dancer.
In other sessions Bodhran players don't seem to realise that they have to be much better than average to make a good contribution. Even the good ones make it more difficult for the tune players to hear each other properly, and the others destroy the rhythm as well.
Ray

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Marje
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:30 AM

I wouldn't want to push any players or singers out of a session; what does irritate me is when you get hangers-on or listeners-in who are not active in the session but who hog the seats right in the centre, and don't think to give them up when the session gets crowded and musicians can't find a seat. It's nice when people want to be close to the music, but they should appreciate that the very music they came to listen to is going to suffer if the people who come to play it can't get a seat close to the other musicians.

This is a pretty pointless rant, really, as I should think most people reading this are not offenders. But if your wife/husband/best mate comes with you just to listen to a session, please persuade them to move to the edge or out of the way if there isn't room for all the musicians.

There, I feel better for that. Oh, and just to clarify: I'm talking about pub sessions, not clubs or singarounds or concerts.

Marje

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:53 AM

Sunday evening at a session, a player came and sat beside me, and then pulled their seat forward effectively blocking my view of half the room, and my ability to hear properly some of the goings on. Later their partner also pulled their seat forward beside them effectively sitting with their back to the remainder of the room, and shutting all others not actually in the circle, out. I was in the position of being unable to move as I would have then blocked the only exit for someone else. So I put my guitar back in it's case and gave up.
Those are the sort of inconsiderate people I can do without at sessions. Imagine how bad it would have been if one of them played the bodhran too?
Giok ¦¬[

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: concertina ceol
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:55 AM

On a similar theme perhaps were aught to limit the number of guitars?

1) Only the guitarist can hear it in a session
2) They take up the space of two concertina players because of the long neck
3) Isn't a guitar only a bodhran with strings on anyway ie. a percussion instrument not a melody instrument? ;-)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,MandoGordon
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:21 PM

"I picked up a good tip at the weekend. If you purposely tune your guitar down a semitone, it buggers up all the would be joiners in ¦¬]"

We have a trad guy at our club who has a dislike for players, and pitches his songs usually in G# or C# to try to 'throw' the players. We take no notice and play along in the chosen key - it's good practice, you know, certainly for mandolin :-)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Jim I
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:37 PM

>On a similar theme perhaps were aught to limit the number of guitars?

Absolutely! And I speak as a guitar player. I will often not play if there are other guitarists there unless there are a decent number of 'melody' instruments. It seems silly where you may have, say, a whistle and a mouth -organ and three guitarists trying to accompany.

Then there are the guitarists who play the wrong chords or in the wrong rhythm and, despite that, thrash the guitar so that people in the next street are wincing.

Having said that, guitars are useful in that they were designed the way they are precisely for blocking out concertina players. After all what have concertinas, (the only instrument designed by an Englishman), got to do with Irish or Scottish music? : )

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:33 PM

The Bodhran player in question was the one who arrived late.He squeezed into a position where he was making it difficult for the fiddler next to him to play properly, despite the fact that he was clearly a beginner and it should have been obvious to him she was a strong player holding the session together.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: grumpy al
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:43 PM

As a Bodhran player of long standing, twenty odd years now, I wholeheartedly agree that a bad drummer is the worst thing that can happen to a session.
I am also a Bodhran teacher and I try to instill a sense of courtesy in my pupils, for example, if they go to a session and there is another drummer playing put your drum down and await your opportunity to join in, if an opportunity does not present itself then don't play you will win respect for your attitude. I also like to remind drummers that the Bodhran is the easiest instrument to play BADLY and perhaps one of the most Difficult to play well and sensitivly.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:44 PM

yup, looks like thats an issue at most sessions.
too many bodhrans, guitars, or not in rhythm or wrong chords etc..
our session which is led by a blind lady fiddle player here in Vancouver had that same problem..
Get there early, right!
We would play from 8to 11 ( us fiddle players would get there at quarter to 8 and thered be Mary surrounded by 5 bodrans..) We just had the session leader point out that we need the prime space for melody instruments and they got the message and stick to the outskirts - well most of them..

We address these issues by getting the session leader(s) to let everyone know if something is causing a problem..

Weve had issues with people wearing too much perfume, and stealing chairs (someone would get up for a bit and come back to an occupied chair)??

Its just common sense, people should be told if theyre doing something
to disrupt the session.. although in a tactful way..
lately weve had a guitarist who seems to ignore the tempo and tends to drag the music down by going just a bit slower ...

- for new guitarists, its fun to play a couple of crooked tunes just to throw them a bit... (and bodhran players sometimes get thrown by the syncopated shuffle (Orange BLossom type)..

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 01:44 AM

How are you going to improve if you are not allowed to play along.

This sounds more like beginners not being accaepted becuase the standard of the key players is too good.

Shouldn't session clubs indicate the level required to be able to participate.

I know there has already been discussions on how sessions can organise things so that beginners can be included. Such as first half for beginners, second half for the more experienced.

If Bodhran players are not wanted, tell them. Make your policies clear so that people know where they stand. Ok some people will get pissed off with you, but at least they know where they stand. Once you have done that and sorted out things, you will enjoy your sessions more.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:22 AM

I play regularly with a great bodhran player; but four or five years ago he wasn't good at all. When he first joined the session he was encouraged to join in, but keeping things simple. No ornamentation, and getting lots of advice from other players about dynamics and timing. People would tell him what sort of sound they wanted on songs and tunes they were playing. He's practiced hard, played a lot, and is now as good a player as you would wish to see, with a wide and sensitive 'palate' of sounds to enhance the music; his playing is generally regarded as an asset to any session he plays in. (He also fronts his own rhythm and blues band as well, but that's another story...) I suppose the point is; inexperienced or poor players don't get better by being excluded or glared at; they do get better by being coached by more experienced musicians who take enough interest to help them develop. In this case, the mechanics of playing were no problem; what was needed was help with the musicianship part.
Tim

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:29 AM

Don't single out the bodhran players, all these things go for any musician no matter what the instrument is. Get off the bodhran kick.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:36 AM

I agree Barry, but the thread title is Bodhrans in Sessions.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: skarpi
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:50 AM

Hallo all , kick out the Bodhran ? of a session no way .
I play a Bodhran my self and I am still learning and if a Bodhran
player play right in session and listen well to the tune in start
then its fine , but its also easy to play it badly , I am learning
after a dvd from Stefan Hanningam N-Ireland .

I am also I guitar player yes it has a long neck , but so do buzuki
its all how the people sit in the row :>)

go on Bodhran players stand together mates .

All the best Skarpi Iceland.
P.s in some folk music we just cant skip the Bodhran
like I use it alot in old Icelandic folk music .

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:53 AM

>>I wouldn't want to push any players or singers out of a session; what does irritate me is when you get hangers-on or listeners-in who are not active in the session but who hog the seats right in the centre, and don't think to give them up when the session gets crowded and musicians can't find a seat. It's nice when people want to be close to the music, but they should appreciate that the very music they came to listen to is going to suffer if the people who come to play it can't get a seat close to the other musicians.
<<

Thats the other thing, Its not a listeners evening. I have been twice to a session, and quite honestly, felt very uncomfortable at both. Almost as though you are not welcome. The last one I went to, in a small bar, the musicians formed a circle in one half, to the total exclusion of anybody else in the room who wanted to listen. The room wouldn't have taken more than 30 people at best. I sat on one side of the room and the key players sat opposite on the other side. Other people came in and formed a circle with their backs to me and another couple. Very rude. We are talking about a room about 15 foot by 15 foot. I waited for an oportune moment and thanked them and left.

I certainly won't bother to go to a session again as I beleive it is purely for people who want to play.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:03 AM

my favourite bodhran players tend to be more all-round percussionists. I find those who also play tabla to be particularly adept at tonal playing, which has revolutionised the instrument. There are lots of interesting young players around, and one of the things that I noticed at "younger" festival sessions last year was not only the quality of the bodhran playing, but also that the younger folkies don't seem to have such a prejuduce about the instrument as older folkies do. Like anything else, when played well it was welcome.

There are always a range of playing abilities of all sorts of instruments in sessions. That's kind of the point, I've always thought - people learning from playing live with other musicians things they wouldn't be able learn sat at home on their own. Of course, a certain amount of etiquette is still required. But the idea that a bodhran player should give up their seat just because yet another guitar or squeezebox turns up, for instance, is just silly.

There are some superb young bodhran players about at the moment: the lad from Uiscidwr is great, and Julie Fowliss's bodran player can play tunes on his bodhran, so adept is his tonal playing. Will Lang from Mabon, Park Bench Social Club and other bands is another fine young player. Course, the current style owes an awful lot to JohnJo...

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tootler
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 04:33 AM

"Thats the other thing, Its not a listeners evening."

That's basically true. A session is an opportunity to get together with others and play. We are not playing specifically to entertain, but to share music with others of similar interest. On the other hand, I think it is discourteous to make listeners feel unwelcome, after all we are playing in what is essentially a public space. I don't know the sessions you refer to as I live some way from you, nevertheless, I am sorry that you felt that. I always feel very pleased if someone approaches us at the end of a session or when they leave and says "thank you I enjoyed that". Of course it is always possible the musicians were sat in a circle not so much to exclude listeners as because it is the best seating arrangement for listening to the others playing which is very important when you are playing in a group.

On another theme, I think it is a pity that the bodhran seems to have displaced the tambourine which has a much longer provenance in traditional music. A well played tambourine can certainly enhance the music and I think it is a pity that it seems to have all but disappeared. I think there is room for both and I don't really understand why this has happened, though it may just be fashion. There is someone in a session I go to who plays tambourine really well and she definitely enhances the music with some very interesting percussive effects though unfortunately, she doesn't often play it. She grew up in the Salvation Army so she has the right background <g>

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 04:57 AM

Maybe I should rephrase what I said.

The first one I went to was teaming with session players and it was very good. However, the room was full and I sat at the entrance, but didn't really feel part of it. I do realise that it is difficult to make people welcome in a session as its almost a constant contiuation of one tune to another. When I did get to talk to the people in the interval (some of them I knew) they were very welcoming. It was probably me on the first occasion as I just felt out of it. The session was excellent.

The second occasion at a diffeernt venue, and not in my area, I left becuase I thought the circle they created in such a tiny room was unecessary and seemed a bit rude to other people in the room. The key sessionn players were very good.

Anyway Tootler your comment >>A session is an opportunity to get together with others and play<< just about sums up how I perceive a session, and I don't have an axe to grind on that score.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 04:59 AM

I take the point Barry; what I was saying could apply equally well to a huge number of young musicians who have played in our session and moved forward as a result. Though I'm not young, I'd include myself; I learned a tremendous amount about playing the mandolin as a result of the advice and help of the 'old pros' in the room. I'm still learning...
Tim

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:02 AM

best thing to play one of them is a stanley knife...tee hee

sal

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: bubblyrat
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:17 AM

Quite a few sweeping generalisations about guitars and guitar-players above !! Often people will groan when a guitar-player ( not a "guitarist---that immplies skill !! ) like me appears at a "session", although I do use mine as a melody instrument, and I can manage to make a decent go of a lot of tunes,from sources as diverse as the Hardy manuscript to the repertoire of the Jan Steen Netherlands Dance Group !! But---once other people start to join in,which, after all, is the whole point, then I can"t really be heard, which might be regarded by some as a "Good Thing " !! I have tried taking up less room by playing standing up, but invariably get accused of "posing " , so I don"t do that any more .But I"m too old to learn another instrument, so "The Bedford" will have to put up with me for a while longer !!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:46 AM

how about a guitar-banjo or dobro, bubbyrat? should be a little louder...
Best
Ernest

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: MMario
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 08:52 AM

I've heard plenty of bad bodrhan - but have also had the pleasure of hearing some very *good* bodrhan playing - including a group of eight very talented players who absolutley WOWED an audience with a couple numbers. I know it sounds bizaare - eight bodrhans, one penny whistle and a fiddle, but it was incredible!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 09:13 AM

I am a bodhran player, and I play at sessions, I also play the guitar as well and sing ( within reason).

And I have no problems with bodhrans at all, or any other musical insturment at all or singer or song.

Those who so have problems shouldn't go.

but everyone has their opinion.

Tom

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 10:33 AM

Tootler laments the loss of the tambourines in sessions and the rise of the bodhran. It should be noted ,in that context, that the term bodhran (to describe a flat drum without jingles), has only recently entered general usage. Before 1950 the instrument was normally known, in Ireland as in Britain, as a tambourine. Whether or not it had the metal jingles.
    One reason for the loss of the tambourine(with jingles) is I think the kind of jingles they use nowadays. These are much heavier and noisier than they were 100 years ago. Nowadays, the main sound is the jingle, which is a bit metallic for your average session usage. But the old tambourines had more skin sound and less jingle sound, and were much more conducive for jigs and polkas and reels.The old tambourine was a bit more like the daff used in the middle east know, which is a flat frame drum with some brass rings hung inside. This produces mainly a drum sound, a bit "dirtied up" with the rattle of the rings. Quite different from the incessant rattle of the jingles. Which is fine for rock a la Mick Jagger(hence the use of plastic jingle rings, with no skin), but not so good on jigs.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:11 AM

It is very difficult to improve your playing of any instrument if the places you try and play at are full of intolerant persons with exclusive attitudes and a very high opinion of their own playing.
Bodrhan in particular seems to come in for a lot of stick (He he)
But I reckon the most annoying thing I get when I play in public is th amount of normal memebers of the public who come over to congratulate the Bodrhanii on their playing and generally ignoring the vast majority of any session who are all musically superior players of "melody" instruments.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:15 AM

The Villan: if you don't play, you may not realize that forming a circle is for a reason. It takes very little background chatter to make it impossible to hear what other players are doing if they're too far away. The circle puts everybody as close together as possible and makes sure everybody can both see and hear each other - the result is a much tighter sound.

Sessions vary a lot in how far the audience is involved. I'm off to one tonight, at the Tass in Edinburgh, which is at the "performance" end of the spectrum - the drinkers are fairly quiet and they really do listen. They players are mostly not virtuosic (adult learners from the Scots Music Group fiddle classes) but they play their limited repertoire with conviction. In that setting they are putting on something much nearer to a real show than you hear in flashy high-speed obscure-tune sessions led by pros where nobody more than a few feet away from the musicians' table can hear a thing. The result is that the Tass audience regularly drop banknotes on the table in front of me.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:33 AM

RUTH ARCHER as usual is not reading all the posts[but the idea that a bodhran player should give up their seat etc].
I repeat the bodhran player arrived late ,there was not room for him and he added nothing to the music,in fact his presence was detrimental because he could not play in rhythym,and because the fiddler next to him was cramped,and unable to play properly owing to his taking up her bowing space.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: bubblyrat
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:34 AM

I love the way that some of those extrovert groups from Galicia use tambourines as well, or instead of, bodhran-type percussion. About three or four years ago, in Sidmouth, I was "gobsmacked " by " La Baraguetta " ( something like that !! ) --they were amazing !! I have a favourite CD with " Milladoiro " , from Galicia, on it, and their use of tambourine is positively exuberant !! Bring back the tambourine in English music, I say !!!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:44 AM

Jack I do understand what you are saying. However
>>It takes very little background chatter to make it impossible to hear what other players are doing if they're too far away. <<
the buggers in the circle were chatting away with each other and the spectators were not chatting. LOL
I personnally have a great respect for not talking when performers are playing.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 05:10 PM

That's not what you said in your first post, Dick.

"I have noticed on occassions in sessions where there has not been much room,percussionists occupying seats,and cramping the style of fiddlers[who require elbow space ]when they[bodhran bashers] would be better giving up their seats,so that the melody instruments have the space to play properly,."

this implies, regardless of your subsequent posts, that bodhran players should give up their seats to "melody" players. Unless I've misunderstood you - which, given your capricious approach to punctuation, is always a possibility.

A bodhran player needs to be sitting to play properly. So they need their seat.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 06:42 PM

some bodrhani play standing it depends on the circumstaces.
IE leading a funeral procesion etc.
I have a bog standard light weight drum for that, the tunable beast I usualy use for most things is deffo a sitter downer.
or you get very long arms after a short while.
what does capricious mean?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 06:49 PM

I waa thinking of playing a tunable, Tim, with no or only one crossbar. The very deep bodhrans, and tonal playing, certainly require you to sit down to play.

Capricious: Characterised by or subject to whim; impulsive and unpredictable.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: concertina ceol
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:25 AM

I'm certainly not against a well played bodhran such as playing like Ciaran Boyle (the best in the business for my money). Playing like that really lifts and enhances the music.
Perhaps it is my lack of knowledge about the bodhran, but melody instrument players tend to play quietly and respectfully if they are novices, so they can hear, learn from and not put off the more learned musicians. I haven't found this to be the case for the average bodhran player, but I might have just encountered the rogue ones!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:42 AM

Captain Birdseye - if the bodhran player was as bad as you say, why didn't you, the fiddle player, or the session collectively, just tell him/her to shag off - politely or , if necessary, impolitely and assertively ? Problem sorted - session carries on as normal.
In the words of Otis Lee Crenshaw, "It ain't rocket surgery ".

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Shaneo
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:21 AM

Our bodhran player has invented a device for a tambourine to allow him to play the bodhran at the same time as the tambourine.
He plays the tambourine with his foot ,it's a clever device with the tambourine mounted on a spring and frame.
It adds so much to a session ,especially for the fast traditional music and songs.
He has some 'carpet gripper spikes'[small nails] to stop it slipping away from him on the floor .it hasn't damaged the floor too much even though he plays in the same spot every week.
Has anybody seen anything like it on their travels ?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: BanjoRay
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:49 AM

Shaneo - I hope I never see (or hear) one. I'd have nightmares about it for weeks.
Ray

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:52 AM

A bodhran makes a great tray for when you are going round the room collecting shaky eggs preparatory to throwing the lot on the fire.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:24 AM

OOh tambourine-bodhrans... dont' know 'bout that.. I love bodhran played well....superb! But tambourines are too loud...you can gently tap one on the floor with your foot... but pick it up and it's deafening....instrument of choice for accompanying Highland pipes, me thinks.

al

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:52 AM

RUTHARCHER ,Yes you have misunderstood me.,my subsequent post made the situation quite clear,but you didnt read it.
punctuation in this case is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:02 AM

The difference between the Bodhran player and the seat he should be giving up for the melodeon pushers and the fiddle scrapers - is that the seat only has to support one bum.

And a worthy Irish session in Slough - or any worthy arts there - now that is a rarity. Almost worth going there just to bang my red drums.......... one is never enough.

AND Mrs Lemon - (sour grapes?) - please wash & wipe your knife before playing your Bodhran - it will sound so much nicer.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 12:07 PM

Don't be so cruel - the farmer would have to cull all the goats if they didn't make bodhrans out of them.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 01:55 PM

just imagine all the bodhranists switching to washboards....

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 03:54 PM

Blimey Ernest, you must have read my mind.

I was thinking as to why you don't get washboard players at sessions, or do you?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 04:13 PM

I often take my washboard tie (brought from New Orleans) but play it sparsely...

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: terrier
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

Now let me see? A single sided drum played with a double ended stick! Hmm, I like that, especially if its got jingles on it. I fancy having a go at that. Now where can I get a bodhran and a heavy stick? Look out sessions, here I come!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

Heavy sticks are easy to find. Many of the far east sticks are very heavy. I have about a hundred sticks and there are some I can't even imagine how to use. Or, you could use a stick from the yard tree. You know where to stick it.

So many detractors have posted... I have a buddy who plays regular gigs every week. He asks me to join, but, my arthritis and a ganglion preclude same. But, he always insists, because, in his words, "You're just banging a drum." What an asshole. But, he plays various melodious instruments extremely well and sings pretty good, so he must know what he's talking about, right?

Hran on, eh!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:36 PM

Um... didn't mean to kill the thread. Sorry. Go ahead and beat on Hrans all you want. I find most of it humorous too.

Yer not that light skinned ere yees?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: BanjoRay
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:47 PM

Saw Julie Matthews tonight in the Maltby version of the Rockingham Arms folk club - superb singer. She talked about the new Radio Ballad about the Northern Ireland troubles and attempts to play music featuring both the bodhran and the orangeman's drum (whose correct name I forget) together. She quoted an ulsterman talking about people getting shot because they carried the bodhran in the wrong part of town - sounds like they must have Old Time sessions in Belfast!
Ray

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:08 AM

Sessions are for the musicians. People who go along to listen are forced to the margins and don't feel welcome. Naturally they want to participate, to become part of the circle and to get involved. They can't play a "real" instrument, but banging a drum must be easy, right? And there's lots of other would-be musicians doing the same thing. So they get a bodhran and join in.

Unfortunately the talented bodhran players faced with a crowd of thumpers usually pack up and go home.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 09:43 AM

we all sound shit first time round some people have short memories.

tom

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:18 PM

Drummers are such a bother.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 02:29 PM

I normally don't mind bodhrán players in a session, and in the sessions I play in they are fairly quiet and don't accompany all the tunes. But yesterday afternoon on my way home I stopped off to listen to a session in a place I hadn't been in before, consisting of a very good piper, about 3 fiddles, two whistle players, a couple of singers with guitars... and an oversize bodhrán. The problem was that the bodhrán player was always just a tad behind the main instruments, especially on reels. Very off-putting to me and my musical buddies, because it was so loud, but then most in the (packed) pub probably wouldn't have noticed it.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 May 07 - 12:49 AM

I normally don't mind bodhrán players in a session,
Wow how very broad minded of you
It is a pity there are not more people like you on this thread

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Gedpipes
Date: 01 May 07 - 06:21 AM

Gnu
Great link - cheers
Ged

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 01 May 07 - 06:57 AM

So it's OK to "buck up the feet" (as Dr Spooner would say) and spoil the majority's enjoyment because you have a "right" to do it.
I think we all agree that it's a good learning experience for newbies, but you don't start exhibiting your paintings after the beginners painting and drawing class.
There's a right way to do it. I think we're talking about those who do it wrong (I include every other instrument not just percussion).
That's not snobbery - that's a reasonable expectation.
Martin

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 01 May 07 - 07:32 AM

Well said, that man !

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Brendan, Scotland
Date: 01 May 07 - 08:52 AM

The easiest way by far to play a bodhran.... is with a double ended stanley knife! (industrial sliding blade in an enclosed metal case for the uninitiated) Bodhrans in sessions are a bit like fiddles, accordions, bagpipes and the most hated of all - recorders. You shouldn't be allowed out with them in public till you've passed a test! Cruel I know, but as en ex publican, the amount of seats that were taken up by people coming along and hashing away on duff instruments, ( and all drinking one half pint of lager all night unless someone else asked them if they wanted a drink - then they miraculously drunk pints!)was a pain in the a**e!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Triangle player
Date: 01 May 07 - 09:13 AM

Those musicians, no matter how well they may play, who pay for and consume the most drinks and - do appear to have more rights than others......

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 01 May 07 - 09:59 AM

That's because they're seeing double.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:14 AM

Never mind bodhrans, what about melodeons eh?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:14 AM

I don't see a lot of recorder players in pubs around Edinburgh - me and Malcolm Rutter, that's about it. (Finlay Macdonald plays it brilliantly but I'm not sure how often he does it in public). A few years ago it was common for flute players to carry a recorder around as well but not many do that now.

If we're operating in the capitalist value system, it ought to be the players who incite the most drinking who have the most rights.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:41 AM

Greg - did you have to go and spoil it? I offer no defence, your hohner, I mean honour.
Martin

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:50 AM

Never mind bodhrans in sessions - "rights" in sessions ????

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 01 May 07 - 12:06 PM

Nice to hear from you BanjoRay.
The big drums are Lambegs. I chanced to drop on a Lambeg website which had tutorials on the various rhythms rattled out, demonstrated by drumming his fingers on a table. The video-clips of this seemingly dismembered tapping hand had me imagining "Thing" from the Adams Family.



Don't know about (W) "rights", if there are musicians in the session, they may be within their rights to explain whether the bodhran is behind the beat or playing a totally unsuitable rhythm, and hopefully putting the offender on the right track with some clapping exercises as a quick rhythm tutorial.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Susan A-R
Date: 01 May 07 - 01:33 PM

I have only ever minded bodhran players once, when I had one on either side, a spoons player behind, and another bodhran player to the left of the bodhran player on my left. Two of the bodhran players were quite good. One was not, and played during slow airs,and insisted on beating reels in three, saying she was double timing. But I think the main offense here has nothing to do with the instrument, it's more to do with not listening, and not thinking about how you function within a session.   I like playing music reasonably well with other people, playing at a pace that works with the particular session and making sure I can hear other folks to make sure I'm respecting tempo, tune changes, and if I am doing harmony, chord progressions. If, as a fiddler, I drown out my neighbors, I will miss a lot of important information. Same is true for pretty much anyone in that circle.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 May 07 - 05:24 PM

I tis best I have found to listen then play quietly on any instrument you are not truly proficient on.
I have noticed that some players in sessions set out to bate and humiliate the bodrhan players as a matter of course
You know who you are
For Shame!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:50 AM

I play and teach the bodhran, and i try to instill a bit of courtesy in my learners. Most of them take notice, but some are convinced that they know better. So, what can you do.

All my students know, to be polite, not crowd a session, don't be too loud, blend in with the music and don't monopolise a session. Most of it is common sense.

As for saying that most bodhran people can't play a tune.

What a load of ould clap trap...

I play flute/whistle etc, can diddle a tune etc. As a teacher of the bodhran I have to play music - for my students to practice along with. Or, if I am playing too and demonstrating, then I'll diddle the tune for them to play along with. Essentially, a good bodhran player should know and LEARN the tunes they are playing, it's then that they can be most sensitive to the tune's requirements.

A good bodhran player is lovely to hear. If my students are with me in sessions and get a bit too loud, then I'll give them a discreet whisper.

It's a great instrument, in the right hands...

sorry... don't normally get caught up in the thread doo dahs... but couldn't help mesen

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Menno
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:04 PM

I do occasionally wield a botheration in anger... Love asking beforehand what key we're playing in =). I am still at the stage where *most* of the time I can put in my triplets where I want them. Should practice more, perhaps under the eye of an experienced player. I did try a solo once, but ran out of steam half way through.

I do get slightly annoyed by the notion that you should only break out a bothran if you can play it to absolute perfection, and even then sit there in the corner under the stairs next to the cat's litter tray. I *know* you don't want to play louder than the fiddle player. I *know* you don't play on the slow airs. I know that the music is more important than the players. Simply looking down yer noses at me because of the specific instrument I've chosen this time, might actually induce me to raise my left hand off the skin a biiit more than might otherwise have been the case.

Oh and another thing: What IS the correct pronunciation of bothran? I've heard it as BOW-rawn (bow as in bow before your King), and as boh-RAHN. I suspect that this is merely a fiendish plot to get bothran players to fight among themselves rather than against the rest of the session.

Cheers,
Menno

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:45 PM

I call it a bo rahn,by the way im not against bodhran players.and really its more a question [as someone else pointed out].of any player not squeezing in.and taking up someones space.
On the other hand melody instruments can generally have a good session,without bodhrans,only about 30 per cent of bodhran players,actually enchance and lift the melody instruments,.
which is probably a better ratio than bouzouki players,who often just fill in the sound without any rhythmic lift,but at least they dont destroy the music by playing out of rhythym.
Iam of course only giving a personal opinion,and speaking from my own experience[there must beBouzouki players with no sense of rhythym.Ihavent encountered any

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 02 May 07 - 01:25 PM

what about banjo/accordian players

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 07 - 01:47 PM

bow as in bow before your King

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Greg B
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:35 AM

I sometimes wonder how some of these session players manage to find
time to play their instruments, them being as occupied as they are
with playing up the faults of others.

Becripes, if you want to have control over the situation, form a
regular bloody band. (Of course that has its own set of difficulties.)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 03 May 07 - 12:56 PM

i agree

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:44 PM

The issue is really about space for melody players.
Ihave been a musician for over thirty years,I practice every day,today I have done two hours practicehttp://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:47 PM

I've been playing the drum just as long, Dick & if a melody player, or lead or percussion player for that matter wants a seat they can get there early or get in line, otherwise it's shoulder to shoulder.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:18 PM

shoulder to shoulder is no good if the music suffers,.
music can be played without bodhrans,without any ill effect,.
if only thirty percent of bodhran players actually benefit the music[and thats my long painful experience],if their cramping the style of the session,and preventing melody players from playing properly,they[bodhran players] need to desist.
whatever kind of a session can one have with just bodhran players ,the mind boggles.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:23 PM

We could all do with out concertinas too Dick but I wouldn't ask you to sit out just so's I could sit in. To expect any musician to sit out in preference for a different instrument is quite classist. If it's to crowded take a back seat & enjoy it but don't expect someone else to jump up & ride in the back of the bus for you.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:27 PM

"behind the beat" can be a matter of taste to some extent. By way of examples, surf (Beach Boys) is played "toes on the nose" but R&B (UK terminology) is played on a back-beat eg Charlie Watts.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: michaelr
Date: 03 May 07 - 08:35 PM

Richard -- drumming behind the beat is fine in R&B and some other styles. In Irish dance music, which depends on the "lift", it is death!

But really, why keep beating a dead goat?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Stu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:31 AM

Are bodhrans spoiling Irish music?

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:36 AM

No the english are.

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:40 AM

No permanent damage is done to songs or tunes by playing them. If it happens when you are around and you don't like it - leave.

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:41 AM

No. Hran on!!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:44 AM

"But really, why keep beating a dead goat?"

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm careful now.

I seem to be appearing on threads I have not posted on

BOGOF?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maeve
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:54 AM

I'm planning to have my doctor incorporate my Hran rim into my new left arm cast next week, as a tipper-of-my-hat to my bodhran teacher. I can keep practicing while the fractured radius heals. Great idea, eh?

maeve

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 11:09 AM

It certainly is Maeve, one of the best 100 suggestions of things to do with a Bodhran, I suggest

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:08 PM

I know that I am interrupting y'alls little hatefest, but it seems to me that many people dislike the bodhran because they have never heard it played right.

I wish I could give you a link to a video I came across where a man was doing it wrong. It was in a pub, and the drum was much too dry. It had all the resonance of a piece of 1/4-inch plywood. (It didn't help that every instrument was out of tune with every other.)

Here's a link to how a bodhran should sound:

not too wet and not too dry

Notice the resonance? Notice the audience getting quiet and listening?

We see 'Milwaukee' in the background. That's my hometown.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:27 PM

"I know that I am interrupting y'alls little hatefest,"

Not me leeneia, just as valid as anything else that people bring to group music. Can bring great tone, drama and rhythm. I am also keen fan of the spoons.

Everyone brings joy to a session, some when they arrive and some when they leave. Now where is my banjo?

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Stu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 12:54 PM

"No the english are."

Oh dear.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maeve
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 01:31 PM

I love the sound of a well-played bodhran. I'm aiming for that sound in my own playing. My post was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion as to how I myself might be able to keep on practicing my developing bodhran skills while my broken arm heals. I have great respect for my bodhran teacher; thus the reference to "a tipper of the hat"

There are several musicians posting here who are seeing the humour without being put off by the ignorance that occasionally trickles in.
My policy is to ignore the malicious or blatently obnoxious posts; preferring to beat my drum rather than other people with whose opinions I differ.

Respectfully,

maeve

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 03:32 PM

Ya know... I have the utmost respect for Kelly... he is a fine player, and his Hran is amazing (ya don't get a goat like that every day).

But, it did stike me as I watched that vid... forgive me if this sounds a tad uppity... that sometimes, non-Hraners might be just a wee jealous of the fact that someone like Kelly can elicit such a myriad of tone and tune from "just bangin on a drum."

Hran on! >;-)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 07:19 AM

A surfeit of any instrument can be detrimental.
A dominant instrument can be just as annoying. You want a list?
A badly played instrument kills the atmosphere.

But as for giving-up a seat for a prima donna.
When they prop their violin case on the seat you want, or put it on the floor so there is nowhere for your feet. Courtesy is a two way street.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:00 AM

I play the bodhran and guitar and think that people should be able to play whatever insterment they want execpt eletric guitars and banjos becasue I beleive that a banjo is just a bodhran with strings and the same with fiddle players one sounds the same as another and tit for me a bit boring but then you get these folk music snobs who think that they are better than everyone else and then they come on to this website and tell everyone about how snobish they are

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Stu
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:06 AM

The best bodhran player I have ever seen (apart from my best mate Den) is Martin O'Neill, who plays with Julie Fowlis. He's a sublime player, non-intrusive and sensitive, allowing the tune to come to the fore. He also got an actual tune out of his drum; something many claim to be able to do, but he's the only one I've ever seen doing it.

The good players know the tunes, and generally play another instrument as well as the bodhran.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:25 AM

Hallo all ,

I play guitar and Bodhrán , and I learned in a session I went to
in Newcastle C-down in N-Ireland , in a pub called Mahara-inn ,
that the bodhrán is not a lead instrument and I should always
start to play after the first bar : also I play soft on the drum
and not with heavy sound .

I do not go to many session ,but we do have a sessions in Reykjavik
once a week now and one of the Bodhrán players is bothering me when I play and sing on my guitar , but I try not to get to him , but I have asked him to listen and play a little softer . :>) .

and other thing why should I stand up or give up my seat ??
why dont people just come in earlier ??

skarpi

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:47 AM

have not heard of good manners

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:54 AM

some people including me don't drive so we have to reliy on public transport or else ask some how is going to the session if they can give you a lift so please don't assume that everyone has a car becuase some of us don't and if there a seat then give them one if not then tell them where the seats are ist's known as good manners. Why are some people really rude, I smetimes feel like giving them a good slap with my bodhran stick, but then their brain(if they've got one!) would understand this.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Megan L
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 08:57 AM

Anyone who has had the pleasure of meeting Skarpi knows he is one of the gentlest and most mannerly men ever to enter the mudcat.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:31 AM

if you're at a session and there are seats there then it's good manners to give up you seat I would, wouldn't you.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:38 AM

what has your comment got to do with bodhran players at sessions

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ptarmigan
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:44 AM

"I'm seeing a lot less squadrons of bodhrans than I used to (around Edinburgh)."

Ah Ha Jack, so Llig's message must be getting through to folks up there! ;-)

Cheers
Dick

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: skarpi
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 09:49 AM

Why are some people really rude,good manner s ??

now listen Goatfell , if read my message again , and I am sorry
I forgit to tell that when Bodhran is not lead instrument then we dont need to sit in the front do we ??

I am not rude and yes I know good manners and I always stand for older people when I travel by bus ,, but when chair is needed in session I simply get another chair for you , such an easy way :>)

what has your comment got to do with bodhran players at sessions

first I play bodhran , I dont sit in the front , I always respect those who play the tunes , I never start play until they have finished
the first bar ,

Like I said , I am not rude , and I know my manners , so like I said read my message again .

So Goatfell , I dont know from witch side of the bed you went this morning , but I hope you have a good day . :>)

all the best from Skarpi

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 12:52 PM

Here a last minute clip of Mance Grady ending the Berkely Percussion Festival.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 01:29 PM

'and the same with fiddle players one sounds the same as another'

Dearie me!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 01:52 PM

Barry.... that link will not work for me. Last I heard from Mance was on one of his tapes. Fine technician. I saw him in Boston many years ago... much better live than any recordings. Then again, that's usually the way.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: terrier
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 02:22 PM

Re Mance Grady.. how did he do that? Brilliant! I suppose it's like any other instrument, some people can and some can't.
I was in Scotland some years ago working with HarmoniumHero(John Kelly). We were in a pub having an afternoon drink and the barman was trying to accompany some piped music on a Bod, not making a very good job of it. Kelly was staring at him and eventually the guy gives the Bod to John and says "can you do any better". John may not be as good as Mance Grady, but he gave the barman a lesson on what you CAN do with a one sided drum if you practice. The barman took in good humour and stumped up some free drinks for us.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maire-aine
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 02:43 PM

I'd like to echo what Skarpi said. Sugarfoot Jack, what exactly is eating you? Is there some particular incident, or have you seen some trend involving bodhran players that you want to draw to people's attention?

Regards,
Mary

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:01 PM

"John may not be as good as Mance Grady..."

Here now... none of that. Hranners don't say those kinds of things eh?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: terrier
Date: 07 Mar 09 - 03:36 PM

Oops! Did I speak out of turn? :)

Why is a Bodhran better than a Boomarang?

When you throw a Bodhran stick, it DOESN'T come back!

That's just a poor joke, OK, no offence :)

As a piano accordeonist, I've taken a lot of stick over the years at sessions, if it's not too big and taking up too much room, it's playing in the wrong key for the melodeons, etc.etc. As far as bods go (Should I be calling them Hrans now?)a poor player can be a real pain but I'd happily have a good Bodhran player sitting next to me in a session, no reason why they should be relegated to the back of the room.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 04:04 AM

thank you Skarpi.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: goatfell
Date: 08 Mar 09 - 04:05 AM

I didn't realize that you were a bodhran player too, better that banjos (bodhrans with strings)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 02:29 PM

I LOVE IT! Thanks Kendall.