bodhrans in sessions

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:52 AM

A bodhran makes a great tray for when you are going round the room collecting shaky eggs preparatory to throwing the lot on the fire.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Alex
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:24 AM

OOh tambourine-bodhrans... dont' know 'bout that.. I love bodhran played well....superb! But tambourines are too loud...you can gently tap one on the floor with your foot... but pick it up and it's deafening....instrument of choice for accompanying Highland pipes, me thinks.

al

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:52 AM

RUTHARCHER ,Yes you have misunderstood me.,my subsequent post made the situation quite clear,but you didnt read it.
punctuation in this case is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:02 AM

The difference between the Bodhran player and the seat he should be giving up for the melodeon pushers and the fiddle scrapers - is that the seat only has to support one bum.

And a worthy Irish session in Slough - or any worthy arts there - now that is a rarity. Almost worth going there just to bang my red drums.......... one is never enough.

AND Mrs Lemon - (sour grapes?) - please wash & wipe your knife before playing your Bodhran - it will sound so much nicer.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 12:07 PM

Don't be so cruel - the farmer would have to cull all the goats if they didn't make bodhrans out of them.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 01:55 PM

just imagine all the bodhranists switching to washboards....

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 03:54 PM

Blimey Ernest, you must have read my mind.

I was thinking as to why you don't get washboard players at sessions, or do you?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ernest
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 04:13 PM

I often take my washboard tie (brought from New Orleans) but play it sparsely...

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: terrier
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

Now let me see? A single sided drum played with a double ended stick! Hmm, I like that, especially if its got jingles on it. I fancy having a go at that. Now where can I get a bodhran and a heavy stick? Look out sessions, here I come!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

Heavy sticks are easy to find. Many of the far east sticks are very heavy. I have about a hundred sticks and there are some I can't even imagine how to use. Or, you could use a stick from the yard tree. You know where to stick it.

So many detractors have posted... I have a buddy who plays regular gigs every week. He asks me to join, but, my arthritis and a ganglion preclude same. But, he always insists, because, in his words, "You're just banging a drum." What an asshole. But, he plays various melodious instruments extremely well and sings pretty good, so he must know what he's talking about, right?

Hran on, eh!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:36 PM

Um... didn't mean to kill the thread. Sorry. Go ahead and beat on Hrans all you want. I find most of it humorous too.

Yer not that light skinned ere yees?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: BanjoRay
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:47 PM

Saw Julie Matthews tonight in the Maltby version of the Rockingham Arms folk club - superb singer. She talked about the new Radio Ballad about the Northern Ireland troubles and attempts to play music featuring both the bodhran and the orangeman's drum (whose correct name I forget) together. She quoted an ulsterman talking about people getting shot because they carried the bodhran in the wrong part of town - sounds like they must have Old Time sessions in Belfast!
Ray

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:08 AM

Sessions are for the musicians. People who go along to listen are forced to the margins and don't feel welcome. Naturally they want to participate, to become part of the circle and to get involved. They can't play a "real" instrument, but banging a drum must be easy, right? And there's lots of other would-be musicians doing the same thing. So they get a bodhran and join in.

Unfortunately the talented bodhran players faced with a crowd of thumpers usually pack up and go home.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 09:43 AM

we all sound shit first time round some people have short memories.

tom

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:18 PM

Drummers are such a bother.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 02:29 PM

I normally don't mind bodhrán players in a session, and in the sessions I play in they are fairly quiet and don't accompany all the tunes. But yesterday afternoon on my way home I stopped off to listen to a session in a place I hadn't been in before, consisting of a very good piper, about 3 fiddles, two whistle players, a couple of singers with guitars... and an oversize bodhrán. The problem was that the bodhrán player was always just a tad behind the main instruments, especially on reels. Very off-putting to me and my musical buddies, because it was so loud, but then most in the (packed) pub probably wouldn't have noticed it.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 May 07 - 12:49 AM

I normally don't mind bodhrán players in a session,
Wow how very broad minded of you
It is a pity there are not more people like you on this thread

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Gedpipes
Date: 01 May 07 - 06:21 AM

Gnu
Great link - cheers
Ged

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 01 May 07 - 06:57 AM

So it's OK to "buck up the feet" (as Dr Spooner would say) and spoil the majority's enjoyment because you have a "right" to do it.
I think we all agree that it's a good learning experience for newbies, but you don't start exhibiting your paintings after the beginners painting and drawing class.
There's a right way to do it. I think we're talking about those who do it wrong (I include every other instrument not just percussion).
That's not snobbery - that's a reasonable expectation.
Martin

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 01 May 07 - 07:32 AM

Well said, that man !

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Brendan, Scotland
Date: 01 May 07 - 08:52 AM

The easiest way by far to play a bodhran.... is with a double ended stanley knife! (industrial sliding blade in an enclosed metal case for the uninitiated) Bodhrans in sessions are a bit like fiddles, accordions, bagpipes and the most hated of all - recorders. You shouldn't be allowed out with them in public till you've passed a test! Cruel I know, but as en ex publican, the amount of seats that were taken up by people coming along and hashing away on duff instruments, ( and all drinking one half pint of lager all night unless someone else asked them if they wanted a drink - then they miraculously drunk pints!)was a pain in the a**e!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Triangle player
Date: 01 May 07 - 09:13 AM

Those musicians, no matter how well they may play, who pay for and consume the most drinks and - do appear to have more rights than others......

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 01 May 07 - 09:59 AM

That's because they're seeing double.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:14 AM

Never mind bodhrans, what about melodeons eh?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:14 AM

I don't see a lot of recorder players in pubs around Edinburgh - me and Malcolm Rutter, that's about it. (Finlay Macdonald plays it brilliantly but I'm not sure how often he does it in public). A few years ago it was common for flute players to carry a recorder around as well but not many do that now.

If we're operating in the capitalist value system, it ought to be the players who incite the most drinking who have the most rights.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 01 May 07 - 10:41 AM

Greg - did you have to go and spoil it? I offer no defence, your hohner, I mean honour.
Martin

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:50 AM

Never mind bodhrans in sessions - "rights" in sessions ????

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: GUEST,Geoff Wright
Date: 01 May 07 - 12:06 PM

Nice to hear from you BanjoRay.
The big drums are Lambegs. I chanced to drop on a Lambeg website which had tutorials on the various rhythms rattled out, demonstrated by drumming his fingers on a table. The video-clips of this seemingly dismembered tapping hand had me imagining "Thing" from the Adams Family.



Don't know about (W) "rights", if there are musicians in the session, they may be within their rights to explain whether the bodhran is behind the beat or playing a totally unsuitable rhythm, and hopefully putting the offender on the right track with some clapping exercises as a quick rhythm tutorial.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Susan A-R
Date: 01 May 07 - 01:33 PM

I have only ever minded bodhran players once, when I had one on either side, a spoons player behind, and another bodhran player to the left of the bodhran player on my left. Two of the bodhran players were quite good. One was not, and played during slow airs,and insisted on beating reels in three, saying she was double timing. But I think the main offense here has nothing to do with the instrument, it's more to do with not listening, and not thinking about how you function within a session.   I like playing music reasonably well with other people, playing at a pace that works with the particular session and making sure I can hear other folks to make sure I'm respecting tempo, tune changes, and if I am doing harmony, chord progressions. If, as a fiddler, I drown out my neighbors, I will miss a lot of important information. Same is true for pretty much anyone in that circle.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 May 07 - 05:24 PM

I tis best I have found to listen then play quietly on any instrument you are not truly proficient on.
I have noticed that some players in sessions set out to bate and humiliate the bodrhan players as a matter of course
You know who you are
For Shame!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:50 AM

I play and teach the bodhran, and i try to instill a bit of courtesy in my learners. Most of them take notice, but some are convinced that they know better. So, what can you do.

All my students know, to be polite, not crowd a session, don't be too loud, blend in with the music and don't monopolise a session. Most of it is common sense.

As for saying that most bodhran people can't play a tune.

What a load of ould clap trap...

I play flute/whistle etc, can diddle a tune etc. As a teacher of the bodhran I have to play music - for my students to practice along with. Or, if I am playing too and demonstrating, then I'll diddle the tune for them to play along with. Essentially, a good bodhran player should know and LEARN the tunes they are playing, it's then that they can be most sensitive to the tune's requirements.

A good bodhran player is lovely to hear. If my students are with me in sessions and get a bit too loud, then I'll give them a discreet whisper.

It's a great instrument, in the right hands...

sorry... don't normally get caught up in the thread doo dahs... but couldn't help mesen

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Menno
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:04 PM

I do occasionally wield a botheration in anger... Love asking beforehand what key we're playing in =). I am still at the stage where *most* of the time I can put in my triplets where I want them. Should practice more, perhaps under the eye of an experienced player. I did try a solo once, but ran out of steam half way through.

I do get slightly annoyed by the notion that you should only break out a bothran if you can play it to absolute perfection, and even then sit there in the corner under the stairs next to the cat's litter tray. I *know* you don't want to play louder than the fiddle player. I *know* you don't play on the slow airs. I know that the music is more important than the players. Simply looking down yer noses at me because of the specific instrument I've chosen this time, might actually induce me to raise my left hand off the skin a biiit more than might otherwise have been the case.

Oh and another thing: What IS the correct pronunciation of bothran? I've heard it as BOW-rawn (bow as in bow before your King), and as boh-RAHN. I suspect that this is merely a fiendish plot to get bothran players to fight among themselves rather than against the rest of the session.

Cheers,
Menno

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 May 07 - 12:45 PM

I call it a bo rahn,by the way im not against bodhran players.and really its more a question [as someone else pointed out].of any player not squeezing in.and taking up someones space.
On the other hand melody instruments can generally have a good session,without bodhrans,only about 30 per cent of bodhran players,actually enchance and lift the melody instruments,.
which is probably a better ratio than bouzouki players,who often just fill in the sound without any rhythmic lift,but at least they dont destroy the music by playing out of rhythym.
Iam of course only giving a personal opinion,and speaking from my own experience[there must beBouzouki players with no sense of rhythym.Ihavent encountered any

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 02 May 07 - 01:25 PM

what about banjo/accordian players

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: gnu
Date: 02 May 07 - 01:47 PM

bow as in bow before your King

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Greg B
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:35 AM

I sometimes wonder how some of these session players manage to find
time to play their instruments, them being as occupied as they are
with playing up the faults of others.

Becripes, if you want to have control over the situation, form a
regular bloody band. (Of course that has its own set of difficulties.)

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: guitar
Date: 03 May 07 - 12:56 PM

i agree

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:44 PM

The issue is really about space for melody players.
Ihave been a musician for over thirty years,I practice every day,today I have done two hours practicehttp://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:47 PM

I've been playing the drum just as long, Dick & if a melody player, or lead or percussion player for that matter wants a seat they can get there early or get in line, otherwise it's shoulder to shoulder.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:18 PM

shoulder to shoulder is no good if the music suffers,.
music can be played without bodhrans,without any ill effect,.
if only thirty percent of bodhran players actually benefit the music[and thats my long painful experience],if their cramping the style of the session,and preventing melody players from playing properly,they[bodhran players] need to desist.
whatever kind of a session can one have with just bodhran players ,the mind boggles.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Barry Finn
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:23 PM

We could all do with out concertinas too Dick but I wouldn't ask you to sit out just so's I could sit in. To expect any musician to sit out in preference for a different instrument is quite classist. If it's to crowded take a back seat & enjoy it but don't expect someone else to jump up & ride in the back of the bus for you.

Barry

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:27 PM

"behind the beat" can be a matter of taste to some extent. By way of examples, surf (Beach Boys) is played "toes on the nose" but R&B (UK terminology) is played on a back-beat eg Charlie Watts.

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: michaelr
Date: 03 May 07 - 08:35 PM

Richard -- drumming behind the beat is fine in R&B and some other styles. In Irish dance music, which depends on the "lift", it is death!

But really, why keep beating a dead goat?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Stu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:31 AM

Are bodhrans spoiling Irish music?

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:36 AM

No the english are.

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:40 AM

No permanent damage is done to songs or tunes by playing them. If it happens when you are around and you don't like it - leave.

L in C

Subject: RE: bodhrans and Irish music
From: gnu
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:41 AM

No. Hran on!!

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:44 AM

"But really, why keep beating a dead goat?"

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm careful now.

I seem to be appearing on threads I have not posted on

BOGOF?

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: maeve
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 10:54 AM

I'm planning to have my doctor incorporate my Hran rim into my new left arm cast next week, as a tipper-of-my-hat to my bodhran teacher. I can keep practicing while the fractured radius heals. Great idea, eh?

maeve

Subject: RE: bodhrans in sessions
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 Mar 09 - 11:09 AM

It certainly is Maeve, one of the best 100 suggestions of things to do with a Bodhran, I suggest

L in C