Shanties rejected by Liverpool

Subject: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:42 AM

It's hard to believe but Liverpool Council - which supported the excellent Mersey Shanty Festival for 9 years - has refused funding for the performance of shanties and sea songs as part of the city's 800th anniversary celebrations this year. There is every indication that the same will happen next year when Liverpool, surely the spiritual home of shanties, will be the European Capital of Culture.

The decision is all the more baffling considering the variety of events which have been supported - see here and here.

A blog has been set up here to provide information and display comments from. Contributions would be very welcome, either on this forum or by email.

Jack

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From:
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:13 AM

Sorry to hear this, Jack. You're right that it is hard to believe that the city fathers would turn away form such a significant part of the city's history as a seaport!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 07:54 AM

The massive city centre building project currently happening in Liverpool will transform the city's shopping area. What is the project called? The Paradise Project. And it's called that because it is centred on the Paradise St area. AND, folkies all over the world know the Liverpool folk song " Blow the Man Down", which, of course, begins with the words, " As I was a walking down Paradise Street...". You've have thought the council would have jumped at the chance of exploiting that connection and revelled at opportunity of having shanty singers blasting it out! Talk about lack of foresight.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: folk_radio_uk
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:21 AM

I've just been on there to have a look. As Keith Kendrick (Songs from the Derbyshire Coast)points out in his contribution on the blog:

"In particular, on a year when Liverpool (the world's Sea Capital) is celebrating its immense history of culture for which all matters Maritime must surely be paramount? What can they be thinking?"

It's bureaucracy gone mad, and to use the excuse of maintaining programme balance as and excuse is just pitiful! What balance?

What ever next?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:32 AM

Here's another thought. Prince Charles was recently was the guest of honor at the reopening of Liverpool's magnificent - and I MEAN magnificent - St George's Hall. Now, where is this fantastic building situated? On Lime Street, home of "Maggie May", another well-known Liverpool folk song recorded by a host of performers from the Spinners to that famous beat combo, The Beatles. Of course, it occurs to me that Liverpool's current city fathers may not like to be reminded of the days when prostitutes walked up and down Lime Street and Paradise Street!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Mr Happy
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:38 AM

Liverpool,considering the size of the area, its pretty well a folk desert

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:46 AM

What a load of effing crap

When will these people see sense?   I vote we just turn up at the pierhead or Canning/Albert dock or somewhere and start singing. The more the merrier.

Steve

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:52 AM

Get Hughie Jones on the case! I am sure he would be happy to lead any such case:-)

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 08:57 AM

anyone can sing, anywhere, anytime so ner

sal

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:01 AM

I agree with Schantieman,you can sing anywhere in the old docks.Good luck to you all who goes and have a session.


Scooby.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:44 AM

I mentioned St George's Hall before. He's a link to a photo of that fabulous building.

St George's Hall, Lime St. Liverpool

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:47 AM

At the risk of outstaying my welcome, I once appeared in a show in the small concert hall situated at one end of St George's Hall. The famous playwright Willy Russell was also on the the bill. I saw lots of great acts there in the 60s the 70s including Planxty with their, then, new singer Paul Brady.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:48 AM

My impression is that it's not Liverpool Council who have made the decision. A quick look at the blog shows that arts promotions have been out-sourced to a relatively new organisation of 'arts professionals' called 'The Culture Company'. It may be that their grasp of the historical context is limited; it is often the case that such agencies have neophiliac tendencies that may blind them to the value of traditional cultures that are not perceived as exotic. Without wishing to appear cynical, I'd suggest that you may not have placed sufficient stress in your proposal on the important contribution to the shanty tradition made by sailors of African decent. Presenting the proposal as a multi-cultural event would probably have given it more weight from their point of view.

Their website at http://www.theculturecompany.co.uk/ will give you some idea of what they think of as 'culture'. Watch out for the annoying (though mercifully brief) 'flash' presentation, though.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Blowzabella
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 09:57 AM

I very much doubt that Jack would have missed making that connection, Malcolm, with all due respect.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: folk_radio_uk
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:24 AM

I just had a look at The Culture Company website. Their frontpage appears to display "what they are all about"

I quote: "The Culture Company is an independent agency demonstrating a fresh approach to commissioning programming and regeneration and a particular focus on CONTEMPORARY VISUAL ARTs,"

and later on:

"That's why we like to work with partners from the public or private sector who jave ambitions to see something happen beyond the ordinary"

Do you look at that and think "yes they're all about tradition?"

I'd say that the council new exactly what they were getting into when they contracted out/tendered for this work. I don't think you can remove responsibility from the council that easily and place it down to a mis-understanding. The council are subject to audits on spend like anyother council and will need to have gone through an internal process looking at value for money etc. before awarding the contract.

Looks fairly clear to me as it did to Jack...

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Greg B
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:41 AM

I'm put in mind of South Street Seaport in New York. When it was
a bunch of derelict warehouses and shops, interspersed with a
few 'dives,' 'joints,' and locally-famous restaurants together
with the Fulton Fish Market, it was a very welcoming venue to
traditional musicians. Well, it wasn't so much welcoming as
there just wasn't much competition.

Now that it's a tourist trap and shopping center, what we
would call 'legitimate' music of a historical nature has been
pushed into the corners just as much has the 'South Street Seaport
Museum' which was envisioned by the optimists as the center-piece
of the revitalized area.

The truth is, the re-developers have a different agenda, and it
hasn't much to do with history. Oh, if there's something charming,
like swashbuckling pirates (or as in the American West, cowboys
and outlaws) they'll use it.

But the reality of 'sailortown' isn't something with which they
really want to be associated or remember. I believe they underestimate
the public, thinking they'll be put off by the reality of the
Jack Tars, Maggie Mays, the crimps, and madames. Jack wouldn't
have bought Maggie a gown at Versace, nor a meal at the food
court.

But then again, perhaps they shouldn't commercialize Jack and
Maggie and Jimmy the crimp. Nor all of the poverty, pain, and
pure survival that came in between.

It's not an easy question, what happens or should happen when
they 'pave Paradise street and put up a parking lot.'

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: skipy
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:52 AM

and the tears of the slaves made the mersey run black!
Skipy.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:34 AM

One would think that in celebrating a city for it's 800th birthday that rather than push the contempory they'd at the very least want to go back a few more yrs & include it's early & earliest traditions & cultures. Did Liverpool's history start at the dimise of rock & roll or is that were it ended? You could sing shanties non stop just using the songs that mention Liverpool or those that came out of Liverpool.

Barry

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:53 AM

That sounds like a challenge to me. Half a dozen of the more obvious ones to get the ball rolling....

Blow the Man Down (As I was a-walking down Paradise/Old Howard Street)
Maggie May       (I was a goddamn' fool in the port of Liverpool
Liverpool Judies (From Liverpool to Frisco a-roving I went)
Roll Alabama Roll (Liverpool fitted her with guns and men)
The Dreadnought   (She's a Liverpool packet, oh Lord, let her go)
Haul the Bowline (Liverpool's a fine town)


Excellent idea about getting Hughie involved - I might see him at the Everyman tonight. You likely to be around Jack?

When are we talking about doing this?   Count me in.

Steve

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:35 PM

I went to the website for The Culture Company (see Malcolm's post, above) to get an email address, and sent them this:

Dear Culture Company,

It has come to my attention, way across the Atlantic, that your organization is playing a key role in planning a major civic event for the City of Liverpool, and that you somehow, inexplicably, have decided to exclude the grand tradition of shanty-singing from your plans.

I hope that you folks can be persuaded to change your minds. Like my own home town of New Orleans, Liverpool has a long history as one of the world's greatest ports and, therefore, as an important cultural crossroads for the human race and a breeding ground for original forms of expression.

Just as the confluence of African and European peoples and cultures at the mouth of the MIssissippi resulted in the birth of jazz in the late nineteenth century, so too did centuries' worth of encounters among people of all stations at the home port of the British Empire bring about the development of a unique body of maritime music, notably including the modernized and industrialized reworkings of tribal African work songs that we have come to know as "sea shanties."

I hope that this message will be just one of many, and that you will be forced to reconsider your short-sighted decisions in response to a global outcry. But even if only a relatively few of us join in this protest, I still would hope you can take a more comprehensive historical approach to this hugely public event.

Look, I love the Beatles as much as anyone, but Liverpool's history as a cultural crossroads of global impact dates back even before the 1960s. Please don't remain so shortsighted as to shun the maritime music for which Liverpool is so justly famous.

Incidentally, from a tourism-economy standpoint, you might do well to consider the current worldwide popularity of shanty singing. While shanties are historically an English-language phenomemon with roots almost exclusively in the British merchant-marine and Royal Navy, current-day interest has become quite widespread. It should come as no surprise that enthusiasts can be found throughout the UK, US, Australia and the rest of the English-speaking world; what you may not realize is the phenomenal recent growth of shanty-singing clubs and choruses all over Europe, in places like Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, etc. A well-planned program of traditional maritime music could help draw an entire new category of visitors to your event.

Good luck, hoping you enjoy a great success,

Tom Henehan
New Orleans, LA

Yeah, I know I might be wasting my breath, but why not write something to these characters, who might conceivably make a difference, in stead of (or in addition to) preaching to the choir here at Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 12:51 PM

Well said, Tom

S

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

Nigel Fischer of www.theculturecompany.co.uk just wrote back to me and says his organizationhas nothing to do with Liverpool:

You have the wrong Culture Company I'm afraid.

Maybe we have a case of mistaken identity here, or maybe the guy is just trying to defuse the ranting of a far-distant American crank.

I'll leave it to someone closer to the scene (i.e., in the UK) to determine whether or not this particular web address should be targeted for petitioning, or if a different guilty party needs to be identified.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Blowzabella
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:30 PM

Hi - Before planning an impromptu shanty sing in Liverpool, please ask Jack if it would be likely to help - cos you never know, it might even hinder his plans. I know he has been giving this a lot of thought and, if he has decided the blog is the best way to proceed, please trust him on this - it is a long process. He is also well acquainted with Hughie and will, no doubt hve spoken to him about the situation.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:38 PM

couple of songs..Leaving of Liverpool
Banks of Newfoundland...we pawned our gear in Liverpool
Liverpool Lou Lovely Liverpool Lou why won't you behave like the other girls do

another shanty..Away Santiano (I have heard this in Welsh...is it originally Welsh? ) Liverpool oh Liverpool...away Santiano..Liverpool that ________ school...mg

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:47 PM

Well, I posted here before going to work this morning and have come back to find all this wonderful stuff. Thanks to you all.

In response to some of your points and queries, not necessarily in order
1. Yes we did make appropriate reference to slavery connections in our application although we did not want to make too much of it for fear of jumping on what has become a bit of a bandwagon
2. Yes, the Culture Company has been set up semi-independent of the Council but Councillors are responsible for giving direction to both and they control the purse strings.
3. Being charitable, I do believe that the problem is partly due to a persistent blind-spot affecting relevant officers, an extension of the general aversion to home-grown folk that Martin Carthy, Steve Knightley and Billy Bragg so eloquently condemn. It is, however, an ignorance that borders on the criminally negligent.
4. Hughie has sent a strong message of support, now added to the blog (here , in case you missed it) .
Unfortunately I won't be able to get to his club tonight but I will soon.
Jack

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:47 PM

The folks at "The Culture Company" whose website I wrote to tell me that here is another outfit with the same name based in Liverpool.

Can anybody over there, closer to the scene, provide corrected contact information? It might be worth the effort to bombard them with educational messages...

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Blowzabella
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:58 PM

Poppagator - Jack is hoping to build a mass response, via the blog he has set up - please trust him on this and make comments there - knowing something of the situation he is in, emails to the Culture Co will never reach their intended destination, of that I have no doubt - it will be full of natty suited twenty year olds who would probably think that a liverpool judie is a new cocktail. Believe me! Cheers and thanks - Blowz

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:58 PM

Contact person at Liverpool Culture Company -

There is a Music Co-ordinator there but he referred me to the top man, who is Jason Harborow, Chief Executive. His email address is
here

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Blowzabella
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:59 PM

Jack - if I'm giving misdirection here, in your absence, please let me know. Cheers me dear.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:07 PM

On the subject of an impromptu, informal get-together this summer, a few people have suggested this, for all the right reasons. I wouldn't want to discourage this but of course if it seems like we can manage happily without any money this undermines our case for funding.

On the subject of charging, we could look at this (and sponsorship and other grant-aiding bodies) as a supplementary option if we ever get mainstream support for '08.

It's all a bit delicate and a bit complicated.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Sapper doing Glasgow Suburban OHLE
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:30 PM

Looks like the website for that company is down. Even tried a Google to get same URL and same result!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM

Liverpool Culture Company's website is http://www.liverpool08.com/ and you can go straight there by clicking here

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Greg B
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:07 PM

This is distinct, I assume, from 'Culture Club'...
'Karma Karma Karma Karma Karma Chameleon...'

Then again, Boy George might fit right in, in the role
of 'Maggie May-Or-May-Not' Apparently when told "it's your
turn in the barrel" he was heard to reply "Okay blue-eyes!"

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:21 PM

I took a quick look at the list of projects that successfully sought funding from Liverpool Culture Company in order to participate in the big annniversary shindig. (There's a link on Jack's blog page.)

I couldn't get past the very first listing without gasping ~ couldn't decide whether to laugh or cry:

10,000 pounds (!) is going to an outfit from Chicago(!!) to build a replica of an empty swimming pool (!!!), as a skateboarding venue (!!!!).

Really.

I know we're supposed to be respectful and polite in anything we write to the powers-that-be in support of this campaign, but they're making it very difficult not to be nasty and sarcastic. I'm glad that I wrote and submitted my bit before learning of the above insanity!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:13 PM

They wanted £10,000; that isn't what they're getting.

My apologies for putting you onto the wrong 'Culture Company', chaps. The one I knew of has been doing contract work nationally (and in my area too), so I'm afraid it didn't occur to me that there might be a completely different outfit with the same name that only works in Liverpool. Sorry for the confusion.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 10:17 PM

I'm glad I hesitated before posting until this situation was more sorted out.

But unfortunately the situation still looks unsorted from across the pond. And I'm going to plunge right in!

Before the shanty raiders take to the streets, avoiding the construction hole on Paradise Street, one might want to consult with Hughie Jones, the Lardners, hell! –- with Stan Hugill and Paddy West.

The Culture Company may be oblivious to the rich heritiage of sailortown, hard as that might be to imagine, but there may be someone there who would realize that it is a treasure to exploit, and then watch out for the other shoe to drop: you're all hired to dress up in period sailor suits and sing songs from Pirates of Penzance!

Good luck, lads, and may the outcome be more interesting that my imagination.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:22 AM

I certainly won't do anything without consulting you, Jack - I do know how delicate these negotiations can be and I wouldn't want to queer the pitch.    Just that if we do ultimately get no joy from the powers that be, we can always do our own thing - just as people have been doing ever since ......

I had a brief chat with Hughie last night: he said he'd sent you the message and there wasn't much else that needed doing. Chris, Lenny & others were equally disgusted!

Good luck - and ask for help when you need it.

Steve

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 06:13 AM

I have emailed the council telling them that I am sure they must have missed the Shanty sessions etc off their list and please could they tell me when it is on... sort of being charitable, I suppose, but giving them the chance to put it right. I just thought it might be another way in. The response was that they have forwarded my e mail on the the dept and will get back to me asap. Watch this space.... but don't hold your breath.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:00 AM

Maybe we should all do something similar?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:19 AM

I received a nice polite response from one Helen in Liverpool. (Not sure whether she's a municipal functionary or a Culture Company employee.) It remains to be seen whether we shanty-supporters are receiving attention or just being humored until we can be ignored and forgotten again.

Can't hurt to encourage as many folks as possible to write. There really is worldwide interest in maritime-music culture, and the city politicians in Liverpool are probably blissfully unaware of their city's mythic stature within that culture. Once they realize that a more inclusive program could draw more tourists, they may well reconsider.

I sure wish I could make the trip to celebrate with all them scousers next year, with or without the shanty-singing. My budget doesn't allow for a lot of transatlantic travel, sadly...

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 12:34 PM

I would not discourage anyone from emailing the City Council. The person in overall charge of arts as well as the Culture Company is Jason Harborow - [e-mail] - and no doubt he would refer any correspondence down the line.

Friends and colleagues, I would suggest that disappointment, dismay and disgust are all appropriate responses but abuse and personal insults would not be. I'm hoping to persuade these people to work with us, so rough handling is OK, a good kicking isn't. However much you or I might feel like it.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: ship*scat
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 12:51 PM

This is really a global issue of respecting and celebrating the traditions behind who we are. In that spirit I chucked the following on the fire

------------------------- snip---------------------

Sirs;

In perusing your web site regarding Liverpool as a Capital of Culture, I was extremely disappointed not to find any events celebrating the one art form that I know for sure was born and bred in Liverpool - the sea shanty!

I hail from New Orleans, Louisiana, a world class sailor town in its own right and, in the 19th century, paired with Liverpool as a major source of immigration and an equally important destination for cotton and sugar. Virtually all your pop music has its roots here while all of our maritime culture, including sea shanties has its roots in your fair city.

In the wake of Katrina, we recognize just how fragile our singularly unique cultural traditions are and that they must be nurtured and revitalized by programs such as your Capital of Culture and our New Orleans Jazz and Heritage festival http://www.nojazzfest.com/

Unfortunately we, in New Orleans are succumbing to the same tendencies that appear to be afflicting Liverpool. We seem to be transitioning from a festival OF New Orleans culture to a cultural festival IN New Orleans. With much of our native cultural heritage dispersed to other parts of the country and the world as a result of Katrina, not reconnecting with our traditions and roots is all the more deplorable.

I trust Liverpool will find space to show case sea shanties as one of its indelible contributions to popular culture in its truest sense. If it doesn't it may some day disappear to the loss of the world, Were sea shanties included, I, for one, would consider visiting Liverpool. Otherwise I can find better in New York, Berlin or Austin, Texas.

Respectfully, K.C. King
5919 Pratt Drive, New Orleans, LA, 70122 USA

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:52 PM

I remember hearing that the first time Pete Seeger visited Liverpool, he was very keen to see Paradise Street because of its "Blow The Man Down" connection.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 03:22 PM

I live in Manchester (also in North West England). Manchester has a fascinating history (although shanties probably don't figure very much in it!). Our local authority seems to do everything in its power to destroy or ignore that history - they seem to have a visceral hatred and contempt for the past. Therefore I'm not surprised to find that Liverpool has a similar outlook.

I think that the reasons for this attitude are complex. Partly they are due to the rampant neophilia mentioned by one poster above. In addition, most English provincial big cities seem to have an inferiority complex with respect to London - presumably they think that if they destroy everything that makes their city distinctive, they can build a mini-London on the ruins. But mainly its economic - if you dwell too much on your gritty past you may put off those 'oh-so-cool' investors.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Guest - TruBrit at work
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 04:05 PM

This is just so very very silly -- I think we should all send emails, write on blogs, call if possible......... not to have shanties included would be a travesty!!! AND the Beatles et al should be included but we need equal representation at the least.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: The Admiral
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 06:57 AM

This sounds like another situation where 'culture' means Opera and the like and has nothing to do with the culture of the ordinary man and woman. And after we celebrated Stan Hugills 100th in the 'Pool just a few months ago! Liverpool ought ot be ashamed of itself! If there's any bellowing to be done, let me know and I'll come up from the south with a bone in my mouth!

There are Folkies local to Liverpool but I don't know who they are anymore or who to get in touch with.....

Tony

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:16 AM

The only culture these people understand is where tickets cost more than working class people can afford ie. opera and ballet.

eric

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:04 AM

I have had a reply. Thought you might like to see it.

'Thanks for your email. I know that Jack Coutts applied for a grant to be able to stage the shanty festival this year. Unfortunately the application was not successful. The problem is that there is a finite amount of money in the grants pot and it is extremely over-subscribed. All of the grant applications are looked at by committee simultaneously and awards are made in April of the year. I know that Jack is extremely disappointed that his application didn't make it through and he's been in touch with me to let me know about it.
I hope that he will apply to the arts council and other funding organisations and I've explained to him that our arts infrastructure manager Kim Graham and our creative infrastructure development officer Phil Taylor will be able to advise him on this.

It would be great to see the shanty festival taking place in Liverpool but it's a very competitive grants process dealing with a large number of art forms. I understand that there will be a significant music presence at the maritime heritage festival in June and some of this will be based around the 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade. Best wishes,


Gordon Ross
Music Co-ordinator'

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 10:33 AM

I got the same reply (word-for-word) yesterday from Gordon Ross. Here'[s whjat I wrote back to him:

Thanks for the info.

I trust this will get resolved somehow, even though I wouldn't be so confident about it except for the fact that an international outcry is just now getting underway.

The fact that a regular annual shanty festival had been funded in Liverpool, but that funding was suddenly denied at the very moment that the city is planning a major celebration and presumably has more money available for the performing arts than ever before, indicates to me that something is seriously wrong. Undue favoritism for certain new applicants, perhaps, coupled with appalling cluelessness on the part of some decisionmakers. At least, that how it looks from across the ocean.

Increasing international awareness of this controversy is inevitable. I trust that you and your colleagues will spare yourself embarrassment, and will encourage participation on the part of a significant class of visitors, by restoring maritime music to its rightful place among the Liverpulian arts to be celebrated during your anniversary.

Good luck!
Tom Henehan

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Chris
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:38 AM

Gordon Ross writes:-

"I understand that there will be a significant music presence at the maritime heritage festival in June and some of this will be based around the 200th anniversary of the abolition of the slave trade".

I find myself wondering who this 'significant presence' will be if it's not any of the scores of regular maritime singers and shantymen/women from all over the world, who have supported and sung at the Liverpool Shanty Festival for the past ten years?

Chris

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:59 AM

I'm confused. Has the city forbidden there to be a shanty festival or just refused to support it financially this year?   If it's the latter, can private sponsors be rounded up to make it happen?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 04:12 PM

There's a thought.

But if it's just a load of us singing, it needn't cost a penny. We don't need to have big concerts and famous singers. I bet Zebu or GMC (if they're in) would welcome us on board.

Just an idea. Run it up to the crosstrees....

S

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:13 PM

There are few art forms that require less financial support than unaccompanied singing.

Still, Liverpool has provided some level of funding for an annual shanty festival each year until now, and the money went to something ~ providing a venue, certainly, maybe admininstration and/or crowd control (ticket-takers, ushers, cops), an advertising budget, payment (or at least travel & expense money) for featured out-of-town performers, etc.

Cutting off this funding on the anniversary year is simply an uncalled-for slap in the face.

One would certainly hope that an ad-hoc gathering of shanty singers would not be prevented from singing! On the contrary, with or without substantial financial support, the powers-that-be should certainly designate suitable times and places for appropriate maritime-music events.

Let's continue to encourage our friends all over the UK and the world to keep those cards and letters coming; maybe the organizers will eventually see the light, repent, and provide some truly substantial funding to atone for their past sins.

Who knows? Maybe they'll finance an all-expenses-paid appearance by New Orleans' own N.O. Quarter Shanty Krewe! If our fearless leader KC King ("ship*scat") finally has his house rebuilt by then, he and I and our associates can come show y'all how it's done when your motto is "enthusiasm trumps talent every time!"

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:22 AM

Shouldn't need a huge amount've funding to stick a gazebo on the back've The Baltic Fleet!

Perhaps Asda could be approached for one've their cheapo's!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Blowzabella
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:50 AM

With due respect, I think Liverpool should have a more 'in yer face' celebration of maritime music than a gazebo (which wouldn't meet proper safety standards as it wouldn't be flame-proof fabric probably) on the waste ground at the back of the Baltic Fleet.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:17 AM

Well there's been one there for previous Shanty do's!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:17 AM

...and it's not high enough profile anyway - the Baltic Fleet is a couple of cables away from the touristy bit around Albert & Canning Docks.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Blowzabella
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:24 AM

I think it was a small frame marquee at the back (I recall sitting in it - and it was for overflow from the bar, not provided as an entertainment venue - the performances were taking place indoors - although there might well have been 'impromptu' singing outside), not a gazebo - there might have been a gazebo but that was just providing shelter for staff (different matter). Presumably the marquee would have been erected by a professional company(?) and all the required risk assessments, method statements etc provided.

I'm saying this with tongue slightly in cheek, partly just to show that there ain't nothing simple in this, once you start looking at doing it.

Of course, it would also now require a TEN.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 06:12 AM

'a TEN'?

A Tent maybe or even a marquee











ps I know Temporary Event Notice!

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 06:55 AM

How do you do that?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Mr Happy
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:06 AM

For HTML info, see here: thread.cfm?threadid=19340#htmlguide

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Chalkie
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:23 AM

It would be interesting to know what other events have been deemed to be more deserving so as to receive funding. Does anyone actually know?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 08:49 AM

My modest proposal, given that I'm not a resident of Liverpool, is that we "borrow" a tall ship, fill it to the railings with shantysingers and a cannon or two, and sail into the Mersey, guns a-blazing, then swarm ashore at the Albert & Canning Docks, occupy the pump house pub, sing and drink all night!

Anyone know who to sail?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 09:55 AM

The Zebu is a brigantine that lives in Albert Dock. Wonder if they'd be willing?

Sadly, I don't think the beer in the Pump House is drinkable - it was only keg last time I was in there , although that was (for exactly that reason) some time ago. Maybe we could get the Wapping brewery to provide a barrel?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 11:29 AM

Schantieman-

The Zebu looked quite lovely when I was prowling the docks last September, and I wouldn't pass up a chance for sailing on the lovely schooner (Glaciere of Liverpool?) moored at the other side of the pool.

Oh, I wish I wuz back in Liverpool, --
Liverpool town where I wuz born...

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Chalkie
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 12:00 PM

Must learn to read things fully before making comment.

I've just been looking again on the blog site that Jack has set up and saw the link showing what events have actually received funding.

Although many, and some would argue all, of the events have their own merit I still find it hard to believe that some funding, out of the £360,000 pounds worth that I quickly totted up, could not be afforded to the singing of traditional, home based you might say, songs. Especially when there are a number of groups who are very good at explaining the use and origins of these songs and indeed the labours and dangers of the journeys that were embarked upon.

There are a number of story telling events which have received funding, surely something could have been wound in to tell of the days of sail interspersed with the singing of the songs to bring the stories alive!

Again, looking at the events funded, many emphasise learning and understanding, maybe the event organisers, oblivious to the shanty scene, could not see how shanty & maritime signing could exploit this desire.

However, regardless of what you think you can learn from a shanty or not, it is part of Liverpools history and should not, can not, be ignored.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 03:32 PM

This was started as a serious thread and the usual mudcat drift has begun from some quarters.
Jack just wants support.
Jack and Bernie know how to deal with the intricate windings of the powers that be.
Sensible comment and support are paramount and any impromptu event will only undermine all the hard work they have done.
Those who want to consider Zebu as an 'ad hoc venue will have to travel far as they are programmed for elsewhere that weekend.
Those that matter will most likely not look at mudcat. Put something considerate on the blog instead as Jack has requested.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:20 AM

I'm hugely encouraged by all of the supportive posts and I've provided links to this forum in correspondence with relevant officials and politicians. Maybe a few comments and clarifications are probably in order.

The funding we've previously received has been needed to pay for - PA on ships and other indoor and outdoor venues so more people can hear and enjoy the singing; other staging and venues costs; payment amounting to little more than expenses for professional and semi-professional performers from around UK and abroad, plus hostel accommodation costs; advertising and promotion. Of course it's possible to run informal events on a shoestring - and don't get me wrong, they can be the heart and soul of a festival - but we've aimed to deliver a wide variety of quality local, national and international performances to celebrate these songs to the fullest.

Our current aim is to make local politicians aware of the tragic omission of shanties and sea songs from the city's celebrations. We've played the game and gone through all the application processes - and no-one has suggested we hadn't done enough - but still the importance and relevance of this music has not registered with the officers in charge. Charitably, I'm putting it down to a blind-spot.

You will have seen on the blog our letter to the Leader of the Council, sent on 16th April. We still haven't had an acknowledgement, less still a reply. Maybe he's tied up with political business for next Thursday's local elections. Maybe he's waiting for advice from officers.

In the meantime, I'm grateful for all your support and especially those who have written to the Culture Company. It all adds weight to the argument. We'll let you know when we get any more news.

Jack

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: danensis
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 02:58 PM

Is there any folk music other than sea shanties scheduled?

John

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Schantieman
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 12:46 PM

Jack,

Thanks for the comments above.

I'd be happy to contribute to the blog but, to be honest, I doubt if I could add anything new to the comments from so many illustrious and eloquent people.    However, I do know a reasonably local MP (Merseyside but not Liverpool) who might be able to do something if you think it advisable. Please let me know if there's any way I can help.

Steve

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Girl Friday
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 09:26 AM

This is unbelievable. First Lancaster now Liverpool. If there's a petition at any of the Kent festivals or on line, let me know!
Is Kim Howell's brother on the council?

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 10:48 AM

I'd be happy to contribute to the blog but, to be honest, I doubt if I could add anything new to the comments from so many illustrious and eloquent people.

I'd say you should post and sign something anyway ~ feel free to be brief ~ just to build up the number of people seen to be supportive of this effort.

It will definitely be more fruitful to post to Jack's blog page than to this thread (if it comes to a choice between one or the other, which of course it need not be). Everyone should make some kind of contribution to the blog ~ one brief note is enough ~ because it is public (not members-only like this thread) and serves as a central repository for statements of support.

Subject: RE: Shanties rejected by Liverpool
From: Liverpool Jack
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 03:46 PM

... except I have asked for contributions to be emailed to me - click here - so I can keep control of the blog content. This is our display window to the world and it is important to keep it focussed and accurate.

Jack