The new face of folk

Subject: The new face of folk
From: melodeonboy
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:34 PM

Today's edition of "What's On" (the events and listings magazine that comes with the Kent Messenger every Friday) has a photo of Eliza Carthy on the front page (she's playing at the Sweeps' Festival next weekend). All well and good, but the caption reads "The new face of folk".

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that she was being called that ten years ago. Having seen her numerous times over the last ten years or so, I can no longer think of her as new. Outstanding, yes. But not new.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Surreysinger
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:41 PM

I always did think that the folk scene in Kent seemed a bit behind the times [wicked grin]

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 07:53 PM

Being behind the times is a key part of what folk music is supposed to be about.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 08:22 PM

But DONT forget that Eliza and her Dad are the only people 'doing' English Folk these days !
Quote from 'live' interview on M H show a year or so back !

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:22 AM

Does it matter? If she's outstanding (and we're agreed on that) who gives a flyin' f**k what the ill-informed press calls her. It's the music that matters, not the ramblings of some spotty-faced kid-journalist who can't write a piece without the aid of Spell-Check.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:22 AM

Or even with it.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:45 AM

Sometimes the 'spotty-faced' journalists just reproduce what is sent to them in a 'press release'.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:48 AM

"But DONT forget that Eliza and her Dad are the only people 'doing' English Folk these days ! "
What a depressing thought!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 03:51 AM

Topsie - more fool them.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:50 AM

Well, she's newer than me. And, I have to say, better.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: GUEST,Betsy
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:59 AM

This thread combines a theme which runs through many others in Mudcat.
Don't believe everything you read.
Whether you like it or , from the Folk Awards to Martin and his invaluable contribution to all English-spoken Folk Music(including his Wife and daughter)the genre of Folk music, albeit a poor cousin, is inextricably part of Show Biz . You might not like that thought, but they all want to be loved, well-known and successful performers.
I understand that, and publicity in all its forms assists the wheel to turn.
The Article is just part of the same scenario.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:06 AM

Newspapers rarely get things right. This seems to apply to folk music more than anything else - but I learnt to live with this many years ago.

I once put together a press pack about the Sheffield Giants for a folk festival. Included was a plainly written article with a series of quotes, the idea being that the journalist could add their own adjectives, and choose from the quotes one that fitted what they had written.

The "journalist" took the whole thing and simply reproduced it.

Still it was the "journalist" who looked stupid I suspect.

How many times has Seth Lakeman been referred to as "young"? He is 29.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Villan
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:19 AM

>>How many times has Seth Lakeman been referred to as "young"? He is 29. <<

Well that is young in the folk sense. Anything below 50 is young :-)

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 06:33 AM

ElisaCarthy is a good fiddle player,but she is not outstanding.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:26 AM

Eliza C may not be the very best violin player the world has ever seen but she's pretty damn good. And she plays for trad dance and in sessions and even with the likes of me, knows millions of tunes and is generous in passing them on.

It's about five years I think since I joined Mudcat in order to post under a pseudonym cos I was scared of getting slagged off. Didn't work. The reason I joined? A thread entitled Jim Moray: The New Face Of Folk.

Musicians that the mainstream press latch onto are rarely 'new'. Both Jim and Liza were performing (though not exactly 'professionally') at Sidmouth over 20 years ago. I first saw Liza doing a paid gig in about 1994. Each has put in many years of practice and playing. I really think we can do without someone coming along and claiming 'Jinky Wells was a better fiddler' cos he clearly wasn't. More idiosyncratic perhaps but . . .

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:48 AM

COUNTESS,Nobody has said J Wells was better.
I repeat she is a good fiddle player,a pleasant person, as is Martin.
There are very many very good fiddle players like ELISA,logically she cant be outstanding.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:55 AM

Calm down, Dick.
I'm just saying . . .

You might just as well claim Frankie Gavin to be the better player and you might be right under some criteria. But what's the point? The styles are utterly different.

Comparing fiddlesingers might be a tad more logical. But why bother? Anyone who can actually do it and keep going to the end of the piece without falling apart deserves quite a few brownie points. It doesn't happen overnight.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 08:16 AM

I agree

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

I don't want to be unnecessarily rude but although Ms Carthy is one of my favourite musicians, and in the past has shown up here to be helpful and encouraging to neophytes (shame it was Avril Betts), both her face and her singing come more and more to resemble her mother. Musically the result is splendid, and there is nothing wrong with not being young, but the adjective "new" really doesn't fit any more.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: growler
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 05:23 PM

Does it realy matter who is better than who, Lets keep doing what we enjoy and sod the rest

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:27 PM

I didn't know that was encouraged in your club, were you a public schoolboy too?

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Barry Finn
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 07:32 PM

"New", "Young", "Good" who gives a shit! Her fiddlin' is damn fine & her singing finer, she's full of life & spirit & is doing the music justice if someone wants to write her up & put a spot light on her, let them (she deserves much more & is far better than those Celtic Women showdolls). They may not get it right but at the very least it gives someone whose deserves to shine, a place to sparkle. The folk world gets left out of enough, don't begrudge the little that some get, as far as I'm concerned those that shine don't get enough of what they deserve anyway. Our music came from the back porch, the back yard & the backwoods if some spotty faced kid journalist wants to put it out front once in a while all the better, at least s/he tried. Next time set 'em straight nicely, he may want to better learn & give folk a better name.

Barry

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:15 AM

aren't we in danger of forgetting that the OP was a complaint about lazy journalism and not the merits of their subjects?

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: bubblyrat
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 05:15 PM

I quite like the fact that Eliza Carthy is Er--Um--how shall I say it ?? "Pleasantly Plump" !! and is not averse to the odd body-piercing, which ,methinks, gives "folk" today a certain "cred ".And, the girl can sing, and is not such a good fiddler as to spoil her playing !! If she is to be taken as representative of the " New face of Folk " , then bring it on, man !! Cheers ! , Roger ( 60 this year !! )

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: concertina ceol
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:24 PM

She's very talented undoubtedly. I read the article tonight and it read more like a syndicated press release than a piece of original journalism - although there were some quotes from Eliza saying that she hoped that herself, Seth L and Kath R were ushing in a new Folk Revival.

Two things slightly worry me about Eliza - why does she sing everything so slowly? - why does she live in Edinburgh if she is the "new" queen of "English" Folk.

I'd class myself as a fan but she needs to sort both those issues out!

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 06:53 PM

(1) She takes Maid On The Shore, The Flash Lad, Good Morning Mr Walker and Whirly Whorl to name but a few at a fair whack.

(2) She doesn't live in Edinburgh.

(3) She's not a 'queen', new or otherwise.

Sufficiently sorted?

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 06:39 AM

its better than being mistaken for Lord Lucan

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Surreysinger
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:03 AM

If I was Eliza and was mistaken for Lord Lucan, I think I'd be worried!!!

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:05 AM

I have heard some amazing complaints on Mudcat from time to time, but concertina ceol's claim that English people should not allowed to live in Edinburgh is quite breathtaking. And also, as countess richard points out, who says Eliza Carthy lives in Edinburgh?

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: concertina ceol
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:26 AM

for goodness sake! i find countess' response very aggressive. Why are people so angry on this forum?

We were talking about an article in the Kent Messenger "What's On" (have you read it?). Amoungst other things the article says that Eliza lives in Edinburgh. It also pedals the usual rubbish about first family of folk and folk royalty etc. The original poster was complaining about lazy journalism and my post was in support of his point.

I love Edinburgh and had a relative that lived there until recently (died at 101). Edinburgh is well known for having a fantastic traditional music scene. It would be my opinion that it is not an "English" music scene though. It is up to Eliza where she lives I don't care at all. I was attempting - perhaps poorly - to point out that she will become influenced by the local scene - as I have been influnced by my local scene in Kent even though I am from Yorkshire. I may be weird but I'm not sure if that is a good thing. And it doesn't make me a rabid racist either! I like a broad spread of traditional music except for old time.

As I said I am a fan - I am listening to RED as I type - it's really good!

There was one error in my first post "Kath R" should have course been Kate Rusby.

take a deep breath and think peaceful thoughts before responding.

This is after all a discussion froum not an attack forum.....

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:30 AM

I don't see how it's 'aggressive' to point out mildly that Eliza C does quite a few fast ones and doesn't live in Edinburgh.
She (a) does and (b) doesn't.
That's all.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: concertina ceol
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:35 AM

I believe perhaps wrongly that the Watersons, Martin Carthy, John Kirkpatrick, Ashley Hutchins and a few others have being trying to promote English music for the last 40 to 50 years, so that it gets played, heard, used, enjoyed. I love irish trad and scots trad but we need strong ambassadors of english trad to continue to champion english music.

This is against a background of the mass media who don't care at all.

I was in York for a conference a couple of years ago. Knowing that there would be a session at the Maltings I dragged my collegues along. They all really enjoyed it but thought it was irish music - they took some convincing that what they had heard that night was english tunes (well there was one Cape Breton one).

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:46 AM

concertina ceol - I've taken a deep breath.
Why should someone singing slowly "worry" you? Why should the influence of a local Scottish scene "worry" you (you did say is was an issue)? Maybe Eliza should also turn the radio and TV off because of the risk of polluting her pure English roots.

And bubblyrat: I'm bewildered. I'm not sure why someone who is "pleasantly plump" and has body piercings has any effect on the "cred" of folk! I can't see any relevance in this whatsoever.

Martin

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 07:57 AM

Well said, Martin (who most of you will know was one of Liza's collaborators on Heat Light & Sound and jolly good is was too).
What relevance has it what Liza looks like (which last time I looked, if I remember, was fine, but who cares?)
She's a fine player, singer, researcher, musical ambassador and a jolly nice person.
That's more than good enough for me.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 08:33 AM

ah yes, but being a member of the aristocracy yourself, you're probably a bit biassed.

in Lincolnshire we have an old folk saying - never trust someone with a weight problem who sings slowly. and over the years it has stood us in good stead.

that Luciano Pavarotti can piss off for a start.

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 09:10 AM

Countess: For once I agree with you!

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 09:13 AM

Nah, you're only agreeing with Mr Ellison!

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 09:23 AM

concertina ceol, I would guess from the name, is probably interested in Irish music. The most influential Irish fiddler of all time, I'm sure most would agree, would be Michael Coleman. And where did he make those influential recordings? In the USA, where he lived. So, along the same lines, the claim that Eliza Cartyhy can't be an English musician if she hangs around in Edinburgh needs to be reconsidered, wouldn't you say?

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: Surreysinger
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 09:38 AM

Weelittledrummer - I salute you! Just finished doing a load of rather onerous housework (it has to get done some time) and sat down to your post - laughter is good!! (Mind you, is Pavarotti really likely to want to go anywhere near Lincolnshire anyway??). As to other weird comments re weight and body piercings - can't see what the hell that has to do with "cred" - all that matters is the music and Eliza is an ace exponent - she has all that is necessary in spades!!!

Subject: RE: The new face of folk
From: GUEST,Martin Ellison
Date: 30 Apr 07 - 09:53 AM

weelittledrummer
I've been unpleasantly plump for most of my adult life, will also confess to pierced lobes for many years (not now), sing so slowly that I haven't yet started my first song and yet I spent a pleasant week in Lincolnshire last year and was hardly ever attacked.

I must have pounds upon extra pounds of "cred".