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BS: Belfast accents

Partridge 02 May 07 - 02:58 PM
Fibula Mattock 02 May 07 - 03:19 PM
Fibula Mattock 02 May 07 - 03:20 PM
Greg B 02 May 07 - 03:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 May 07 - 03:37 PM
Liz the Squeak 02 May 07 - 05:08 PM
PoppaGator 02 May 07 - 05:32 PM
Georgiansilver 02 May 07 - 05:34 PM
Fibula Mattock 02 May 07 - 06:01 PM
Georgiansilver 02 May 07 - 06:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 May 07 - 07:24 PM
Fibula Mattock 02 May 07 - 07:40 PM
Greg B 02 May 07 - 10:36 PM
HuwG 03 May 07 - 12:12 AM
Partridge 03 May 07 - 12:42 AM
Seamus Kennedy 03 May 07 - 03:42 AM
Wolfhound person 03 May 07 - 04:17 AM
ard mhacha 03 May 07 - 04:20 AM
Fibula Mattock 03 May 07 - 05:36 AM
Little Robyn 03 May 07 - 09:08 AM
GUEST,Yur Mun 03 May 07 - 10:28 AM
Greg B 03 May 07 - 11:44 AM
freda underhill 03 May 07 - 11:57 AM
PoppaGator 03 May 07 - 01:12 PM
Seamus Kennedy 03 May 07 - 01:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 May 07 - 01:23 PM
ard mhacha 03 May 07 - 01:28 PM
Greg B 03 May 07 - 01:30 PM
ard mhacha 03 May 07 - 01:39 PM
GUEST,cobra 03 May 07 - 05:15 PM
cobra 03 May 07 - 06:02 PM
Fibula Mattock 03 May 07 - 06:18 PM
Seamus Kennedy 04 May 07 - 12:55 AM
ard mhacha 04 May 07 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,cobra 04 May 07 - 08:02 AM
freda underhill 04 May 07 - 08:41 AM
GUEST 04 May 07 - 07:39 PM
bubblyrat 05 May 07 - 04:51 PM
Jimmy C 06 May 07 - 01:09 AM
Seamus Kennedy 06 May 07 - 02:00 AM
Declan 06 May 07 - 04:50 AM
ard mhacha 06 May 07 - 06:36 AM
cobra 06 May 07 - 08:10 AM
Jimmy C 06 May 07 - 10:40 PM
Den 07 May 07 - 12:15 AM
Den 07 May 07 - 12:17 AM
Seamus Kennedy 07 May 07 - 01:21 AM
alison 07 May 07 - 02:30 AM
GUEST,Tyrone bushman 07 May 07 - 07:50 AM
Den 07 May 07 - 12:09 PM

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Subject: BS: Belfast accents
From: Partridge
Date: 02 May 07 - 02:58 PM

Hello,

My best mate is doing a play called women on the verge of HRT.
She has to play a lady from Belfast and needs some tuition of that particular accent, Can anyone help?

Pat x


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 May 07 - 03:19 PM

Yes! tell her you have to put your tongue behind your teeth when you speak. Honestly, try it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 May 07 - 03:20 PM

Oh, and make sure sentences rise in tone at the end rather than fall (which is the 'usual' English speaking way).


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Greg B
Date: 02 May 07 - 03:20 PM

Where is she located? I know a great dialect coach in the
NY Area (Dan Schatz's brother, in fact).

For self-tutelage, go on the BBC web site and listen to some
of the reports coming out of Northern Ireland. Belfast is
very distinct--- Frank McCourt describes it as 'flat' and
that's about the most apt description. Gerry Adams does
quite a good impersonation of one :-)

So does Tommy Makem.

Ulster folk speak, I think, quite a bit slower and in more
measured fashion than folks from the Republic. I'd describe
it as perhaps trading musicality away for clarity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 07 - 03:37 PM

Is she supposed to be a Catholic or a Protestant? The accents actually do differ a lot of the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 May 07 - 05:08 PM

The word 'error' is pronounced 'urur'. That's about all I can help with...

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 May 07 - 05:32 PM

How can this possibly be addressed in writing?

I would argue that it would be impossible to represent the accented pronunciation of even ONE SINGLE WORD (e.g., "house") in textual form.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 May 07 - 05:34 PM

Get hold of the video or DVD of the film 'Harrys Game' which is about the troubles as they were in Ireland before the peace initiatives.
There are some real and imitated Belfast accents in it. Can buy it on Ebay or if you want the video...free....pm me with name and address to send it to. Best wishes, Mike.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:01 PM

The way I say it, house = hice
:)


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 02 May 07 - 06:13 PM

One mice...two mice. One hice two hises.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 07 - 07:24 PM

But then the Queen pronounces house and mouse that way too - and yet she doesn't sound too Belfast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 02 May 07 - 07:40 PM

She doesn't put her tongue behind her teeth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Greg B
Date: 02 May 07 - 10:36 PM

This is funny--- it's a distinctive, and very lovely sound, but
everyone is correct: bloody hard to describe. And yes, there
is a distinct difference between the way Ian Paisley sounds
and the way Gerry Adams sounds. Paisley definitely sounds
more British--- though he probably affects that to some
degree.

The other problem, of course, is that as in Australia, women
and men seem to have somewhat different accents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: HuwG
Date: 03 May 07 - 12:12 AM

An old Frank Carson joke:

Two ducks are flying over Belfast. One says, "Quack!". The other says, "I'm flying as quack as I can."

It's the way I tell them.

If you can get a video tape or DVD of Frank, it might help; even though Frank himself usually performs for an English audience and tones down some of the most impenetrable accent and colloquialisms.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Partridge
Date: 03 May 07 - 12:42 AM

Thanks. I realise that this is a difficult thing to do in writing, I will print this off and give it to Kate.

Ta muchly,

Pat x


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 03 May 07 - 03:42 AM

Daniel Day Lewis in "In the Name Of The Father."

'Bout ye, Fibs?

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Wolfhound person
Date: 03 May 07 - 04:17 AM

I have a friend, who after many years in England has returned to his native N. Ireland, where his accent is settling back to the native level. He always reckoned that the community of origin of the speaker was immediately apparent to other locals, something to do with the vowels, he said.

So your acting friend needs to know which community their "part" is supposed to be from. And also which area - even to me, an English person, the accent in say N. Antrim (the Paisleys patch) is different to that south of Belfast.

Paws


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 May 07 - 04:20 AM

Tommy Makem is pure Keady quite a way removed from a Belfast accent, Frank Carson`s accent is Belfast sounding seeing he comes from there.
McGrath you are right about telling the difference between a Protestant northern accent and Catholic one, it is easy when the Prod is wearing a Sash,this Site gets crazier.
Daniel Day Lewis made a good fist of the accent, listening to discussion on actors and their various attempts at the accent, they all agreed it was very difficult.
Fibula, what would they do with a Cullybackey accent?,retire I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:36 AM

ard macha - Cullybackey hey? Accent hey? :)

'bout ye Seamus! How's it going?

Have yous ever noticed that us Norn Iron people say things like "well now!" as an exclamation from out of nowhere a lot when there's absolutely no reason to speak at all.

Damn, if I'd known I could tell people's religion from their accents it would have saved years of the shifty sizing-up "what's your name? where abouts are you from? Oh yeah, which school was that you went to?" type conversations (which we do automatically, even if we don't give a damn what their religion actually is).


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 May 07 - 09:08 AM

I work with a girl from Belfast - from Hollywood. I guess she was brought up in the protestant area.
The most obvious difference in the way we talk is with words that have an 'air' sound - she pronounces it 'ur':
here:hur, hair:hur, where:whurr, pair:pur, chair:chur, fair:fur, tear:tur, stare:stur.
Get the idea?
I'm used to it now but it did cause a bit of confusion to start with.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: GUEST,Yur Mun
Date: 03 May 07 - 10:28 AM

Uroind Bulfust thuy prunoince "County Down" us "Cointy Doin". Thu oinly uthur vuwul us u U, prunoinced "eeuuuuuuu".


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Greg B
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:44 AM

Who sings the lead on the Furey's 'Shipyard Slips?'

Does it sound like a passable Belfast accent, or does it sound
more like a Dubliner trying to sound like he's from Belfast?

Locals opinions?


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 May 07 - 11:57 AM

for a Belfast accent, try this one - click on Northern Ireland Three


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:12 PM

Thanks, freda, GREAT resource ~ mp3's of accents and dialents from around the English speaking world! (The website is called "IDEA," for "International Dialects of English Archive.")

I found it amusing that the three sample speakers of Northern Ireland English are all identified as "Caucasian" ~ duh! ~ but not as either Protestant or Catholic.

Number One is described as an "ex-nun," which probably puts her in the Catholic camp, or maybe ex-Catholic, which is probaly the same thing as far as culture and dialect are concerned.

Now, it it were an ex-priest, he could be an ex-Catholic Protestant if he had wanted to marry and remain a clergyman. At least, that's not uncommon in the US; I can see, however, that it might be more difficult for any Catholic in Ulster, priest or not, to convert over to the other side.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:15 PM

Greg B, I think that's Eddie Furey singing on Shipyard Slips, and he isn't trying to do a Belfast accent. He's singing (powerfully, as usual) in his Dublin accent.

Fibula, stickin' out, thanks. BTW, those of us better-rared pronounced it "Well nahr".

Oliver - Frank Carson (Kyarson?)...good example.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:23 PM

I remember back in 1969 going round with a People's Democracy lad during an election. Very non-sectarian, campaigning in all parts - so when he was in front of a Protestant crowd he'd say "My name's Billy", and when they were Catholics it'd be "My name's Liam". And the accent shifted a bit too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:28 PM

Seamus, Please put the people on this Thread out of their agony that Protestants and Catholics have a different accent,the people in the street that I meet each day of both religions both speak the same,surely Fibula`s wee story of needling out which school you went to was the means of identification. There is no difference.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Greg B
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:30 PM

That's funny, as I perceive the accent on 'Shipyard Slips' as
quiet distinct from that on other Furey songs, particularly
on the first first verse and the choruses. Perhaps a hold-over
from the pronunciation of its author?


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 May 07 - 01:39 PM

Freda, I have just listened to those people on that N Ireland Site, they would be classed as BBC NI readers , so far removed from the person-in-the-street. Fibula and Seamus have you followed Freda`s web link, try it and let us all have a laugh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: GUEST,cobra
Date: 03 May 07 - 05:15 PM

Meer heer ti I tell ye

Gwen fukk

Bout ye ya big hoor

see me, see my mawn, see cheese, he hates it

Boutchee

Eeny tally

Yew lukkin a dig ina bake


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: cobra
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:02 PM

Oh, and a few ice-breakers for when you are at a party and lost for a few words:-

1. Yer ma

2. (slighty more formal) Yer ma's a millie.

You'll find yourself the centre of attention in no time. Promise. ;)


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 03 May 07 - 06:18 PM

I've lived in England nearly 7 years now and still I have to say my name funny (funny being in an English accent), for when I say "Kate" in my normal accent everyone thinks I'm called Kit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 04 May 07 - 12:55 AM

Kate, I had the same problem when I first came to the States.
"Shimmus?" They'd ask, until I finally plucked up my courage, dropped the Norn Iron accent and said 'Shay-mus".

Late, fate, bait, slate were a pain in the hole too.

Cobra, you're definitely Falls Rd. I can tell by the "See me, see my mawn...." but you forgot "so 'e duz" at the end.

Ard, you always know when you're talkin' til a Prod. They sound like their eyes are too close together and they dig wi' the orr fut.

Where the hell's Aidan Crossey when we need him?

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: ard mhacha
Date: 04 May 07 - 04:36 AM

Seamus, Anyone wants to hear a Belfast accent log on to BBC NI and listen to The Stephen Nolan Show or The Gerry Anderson show, the shows include accents from all over the province, the majority of the accents are from Belfast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: GUEST,cobra
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:02 AM

My bror ordering a "hawm sammich" in a Vermont sandwich shop was good for about a half hour of of puzzled exchanges between him and the waitress. Rotten sod that I am, I didn't do anything whatsoever to facilitate a translation. Tee hee.

I was also amused by his attempts to get "anorr tarl" for his hotel room later that evening.

He wasn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: freda underhill
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:41 AM

the other side.. when i went to belfast and dublin in 2001, no one could understand what i was saying. I'd say something like, can you tell me the way to the museum, and they'd look at me and say "whad did yu say?"

freda


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 07 - 07:39 PM

There is a DVD - and video tape - on Amazon of James Young, a very funny Belfast comedian. If you can understand
the accent it would be a good guide to Belfast speech.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 May 07 - 04:51 PM

So it would !


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Jimmy C
Date: 06 May 07 - 01:09 AM

Coming from Belfast myself, I can tell what part of the town a person comes from by their accent. The ones from over the bridge (Co Down) side have a completely different accent than the ones from round the docks. Also the Malone Road, Hollywoood Road types do not sound the same as the Falls or Shankill ones, so they don't.

As far as the catholic/ Protestant thing goes I can tell whether a person is a prod or a taig from their accent and I will be correct about 90% of the time. It's something that you unknowingly develop and there is no explantation for it.

Peter Postlewaite who portrayed the father in "In The Name of the Father", had the accent down pat, right on the button. Daniel Day Lewis also did his homework as well. It's also something you don't lose. I have been away from Belfast for 41 years and people still cannot understand certain words, especially " eight" "owl" and some slanguage like " yourr mawns a bengal lancer" etc. I bet Kennedy knows what I am talking about. I do notice that when Belfast people get together the speech quickens and an outsider hasn't a hope in hell of understanding us. Even though it may not be as musical as some others, it's ours and I love it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 06 May 07 - 02:00 AM

JimmyC is right about being able to tell is Protestant or Catholic from their speech.
It's nothing I've ever thought about or analyzed, but there must be clues in the speech pattern and possible body language which, though invisible to outsiders, can be detected by Belfast people.
As Jimmy says, it's not 100% accurate, but as near as dammit.

Interesting thought here, Jimmy, Cobra and Fibs: could you tell someone's religious persuasion without visual clues?
By just the voice alone? As in the accents in Freda's link above?

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Declan
Date: 06 May 07 - 04:50 AM

There's a joke about two guys passing a record shop in Belfast.

The first one says "Thats Nat King Cole" and the other one says "Who is it then?"

Should illustrate how to pronoince the word Not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:36 AM

Jimmy C, your no chancer, but you would query what school a person went to or the district he came from as a good pointer to that persons religion.
Accents change every couple of miles here, and I imagine that is the same in most countries.I can tell a countryman by his accent and that is only a couple of miles down the road.
The fact that most Protestants would sound the `G`, as in changing, the Micks would say changin`etc.
I have listened to accents, and taken a great interest in peoples speech from all over the UK and Ireland and my favourites are, south-west England, east anglia, the Scottish Highland area, Donegal and south Down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: cobra
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:10 AM

"Interesting thought here, Jimmy, Cobra and Fibs: could you tell someone's religious persuasion without visual clues?"

No prablemo, Seamus.

The hoag aff a hun is not easily forgotten.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Jimmy C
Date: 06 May 07 - 10:40 PM

Seamus, regarding the above query about visual clues etc. I would say yes.

By first and last name I would be 95% correct.

By visual appearance and accent I would be 90% correct.

By accent alone - probaly close to 90% correct.

By visual appearance without the accent but knowing they came from Belfast I would be correct at least 70% of the time.

It's something we Belfast people cannot understand or even explain but it is true, and is probably true in other cities such as Derry and Armagh, maybe even Glasgow. I suppose we and our fathers before us have grown up with an air of suspicion all our lives that it has become second nature for people on both sides of the divide. I imagine that one would have to be from Belfast etc to develop this sense but to try to explain it is nigh impossible.
I am retired but work a few hours weekly in a retail hardware store here in Canada, I hear North of Ireland accents from customers quite often, and before they realize where I am from I instinctively know their religon , it's incanny because after talking to them for a few minutes my assumptions are correct about 90% of the time. In fact one time I heard this accent from an old man who came into the store, obviously from Belfast, I had him figured as a protestant from around the Shankill, but he turned out to be a catholic from the same street where I was born, we became friends after meeting a few times in a certain pub and I got to know him quite well only to find out later that he was indeed a protestant fom the Shankill who had converted to Catholicism when he married a women from my district. I told him what I had felt the first time I met him and he replied that he knew I was a catholic just by looking at me, so it's not all one sided.

I did have an interesting conversation with a gentleman from the West Indies about accents and he made a very profound statement. he said " you know Jim, we do not speak with accents but we hear with accents". I'm still trying to figure that one out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Den
Date: 07 May 07 - 12:15 AM

This thread has meandered way off topic and who am I to stop it. The key is the letter 'H'. Prods pronounce it aich, whilst Taigs pronounce it haich.

Declan that was very funny I'll hafty tell the bror.

How come the people, primarily from the markets are the only people in the UK who actually pronounce the word gas the way it is spelled. Everyone elsewhere pronounces it gyas.

Guy from Ahoghill goes into a bakers shop and says to the wee woman behind the counter, "is that a cheese cake or a merrangue?" and the wee woman says, "naw you're right."


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Den
Date: 07 May 07 - 12:17 AM

Q. What's the definition of passion?
A. Heavy rainfall in Ballymena.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:21 AM

JimmyC, I have several Belfast Protestant friends, who say the same thing, so you're right - it's not just one side who has this amazing ability. Probably centuries of ingrained defence mechanism kicking in, where little clues, aural, visual, etc., are processed in milliseconds before flight or fight.

Cobra - "hoag"?

Den, another way to tell is to make them say the Our Father.
If they add the "For thine is the kingdom" bit at the end, they're Prods; if not, they're Taigs.
Then proceed to administer the kicking. *G*

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: alison
Date: 07 May 07 - 02:30 AM

'bout ye fellas

it works both ways we can spot youse too before youse even open yer mouths................. hahahaha

finding out where someone went to school was always a pretty good indicator...........

I remember a fella trying to suss out "what I was" by pretending to need an answer to a crossword puzzle - he "needed" me to spell Johnannesburg - confused him rightly by saying J.o. aitch. ah. n.etc

("a" being another of those letters the two "sides" can pronounce differently) - sticking a prod "h" & a catholic "a" in the same sentence left him in doubt

the next question was " so what school did you go to?" *grin*

Get the DVD "an everlasting piece" it had some good accents,

Hey Seamus fancy a wee coort up the entry big fella?

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: GUEST,Tyrone bushman
Date: 07 May 07 - 07:50 AM

Do you know that country people in the north regard Belfast people as know-alls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Belfast accents
From: Den
Date: 07 May 07 - 12:09 PM

Alison, you'se are all snouties, and don't come back with the one eyebrow thing, you'll have to be more original. Maybe we have hairier legs even the girls, ok hairier legs and one eyebrow...I'm making this too easy for you.


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