BS: Cats

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 May 07 - 10:12 AM

The cats have adapted to the chicken. It is allegedly a bantam, but there seems to have been a cuckoo in the nest - well a roc actually.... :-) and the fearless chook can stand off 3 cats at the same time...

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Dickey
Date: 08 May 07 - 09:59 AM

That was TS Elliott from Ol Possum's Book of Practical Cats of course. I thought that because one of the most popular plays ever, Cats, everyone would know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 May 07 - 07:41 AM

The Zoo-owner, animal wrangler and Conservationist Gerald Durrell once commented in one of his books that animals are not the great lovers of the wild that we would have them believe. On one of his collecting trips (to the Cameroons?) he had to let all his specimens go and had the greatest difficulty in getting them all to go back to the wild. In 'The Bafut Beagles', another Cameroon trip, he describes how he showed an eager young woman who was adamantly against animals in cages, just how badly they fared in the wild. He had a new specimen of monkey and showed her the many and painful parasites that infested it, explained how it could lose fingers and toes, acquire suppurating sores from infected bites and be host for a number of unpleasant creepies... the woman never commented on captive animals again.

I allow my cats outside, they have free access with a cat flap, but I don't let them out the front door, which is a few feet away from a busy road. They are free to roam the block and, if they so desire, can leap a few fences and get into the road across the gardens... they don't seem to want to. Even the very active kitty Raven, now 2yrs, seems happy to wander his own little territory of 3-4 gardens and not wander the streets.

It is entirely a personal thing. There are arguments for and against "captivity" for ALL animals. I think it's unkind to not let an animal have freedom to roam, but I know it's not cruel. If the animal has stimulation and freedom enough within the confines of a house or apartment, then fine. As long as the animal is not being hurt or suffering cruelty, then any arrangement that gives it a happy and sustained life, is good.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:47 PM

Be sure it is the kind that fits like a halter, not just around his neck, but across his chest and behind his legs, like this one. Otherwise he can pull out of it, esp. if scared by a dog or such.

IMO, you'd be much better off buying one of the mesh enclosures at that same website, such as this one. It's not even that expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Susan A-R
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:41 PM

My lad Hendrix definitely does NOT want to be an indoor cat, but I have mainly kept him as such.   He grew up in the country as an outdoor cat, and is now in town on a quiet street, but with a few other dogs and cats in the neighborhood and some traffic. I am about to experiment with a leash. Any thoughts on this approach. I'm figuring I can put him out on it while I'm working in the yard so he won't strangle himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 07 - 07:58 PM

I'll take your word for it Bee.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:56 PM

My cats are adjusting to a new feeding schedule suggested by the vet. One cat is way too fat and it is the only way to put her on a diet. They go through the day being whiney and then get fed at 7pm. They haven't caught on yet that they're supposed to eat all of their food at that time. After a while I pick up the bowls again. It has been about four days, and they know the time I'll put down the dish but still walk away from it too soon. He said it will take about a week for them to catch on. If we should all survive the complaining!

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 07 - 03:08 PM

The great thing about animals is they live in the moment, in the now, without fretting themselves to death over what may be. So, they wake up in the morning and do NOT think "Oh, my what shall I do all day cooped up here in this house whilst my minions have gone to work to support me?" Rather it might be, "Hungry, feed me now!" "Bored, catch the mouse, now!" Feeling kinda sleepy, "Curl up and have a nap." Ya notice the buggers AREN'T tossing and turning during their nap wondering where dinner is going to come from or when!**bg**

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:32 PM

Ron, you're a little behind the times regarding animals and emotions. It is now fairly well established that most mammals experience some emotions, and those emotions are indistinguishable, by observed brain function, from human emotions (remember, we are also animals). Of course they don't think the way we do, nor do they make judgements, but more is going on in those furry heads than many of us realise. It is not good to anthropomorphise, but it is also not good to regard animals as clockwork machines set in motion by instincts (which humans also have) and purely reactive.

Some dogs and cats will go to great lengths to find an absent owner, even suffering hardships to do so and travelling great distances. Others will not. Dogs will grieve if another pet or an owner dies, and their sadness is indistinguishable from human sadness. Elephants will handle the bones of long dead herd members - why, we don't really know, but they don't bother with other animal bones, and they actually change their routes to visit these 'relatives' bones.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 07 - 11:43 AM

"Would you want to be an "inside human" or an "outside human"? "

The analogy doesn't work. Humans think in ways that animals do not. People assign human feelings to animals, but they do not have the same reactions that we do. I know we all love to feel that Fluffy or Fido feel the same emotions that we do, but they really don't. They have instincts were we have emotions and thought.   They know that curling up in your lap will mean that you will stroke their fur and they will feel good. They do not make judgements in the way humans do, so they will not feel they have a choice - if they are brought up in certain ways.

The idea of "capturing" rare birds and placing them in a cage, or "capturing" an animal to place in a zoo bothers me.   However there are human options such as birds that are bred to be pets or animals raised in a zoo. They do not long to be outside of their cages if that is the world they know.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:48 AM

I won't own a bird, for a number of reasons, one of which is that they are meant to fly. Other reasons relate to the practice of capturing rare wild birds and selling them as pets.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:09 AM

Cats are great at adapting. When we moved from a small ranchette (25 acres plus many, many more owned by neighbours) our then seven cats went from roaming all over the Wyoming prairie at will to riding in the bowels of an airplane, living in a motel room for 3 months with a dog, three children and two adults, to living in a house, with NO outdoors available to them, they adjusted quite well. When in the motel, I did take them all in the car, every morning, in their kennels to a park where I walked all seven on leashes. Once we moved into the house, they never went out. It continued that way until we moved back to Wyoming ten years later, but even then they only got a "chicken coop" out the window which kept them safe and contained, healthy and happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:00 AM

You could say the same of human beings. Suppose that a superior alien race came here and made us their "pets". Would you want to be an "inside human" or an "outside human"? Remember, Ron, it's dangerous out there! Be glad that your alien master keeps you safely indoors where you are always comfortable and healthy. You will be provided with all the toys you need in order to be happy. ;-)

Your point about the bird, by the way, is rather well taken. Interesting how we think in well-established patterns, isn't it? I've seen places where a bird was allowed to fly around freely in the house. It's great fun for the bird..but it leads to the bird creating a lot of mess all over the place, and he may fly out an open door or window and get lost and suffer an early death as a consequence, so most of us keep our birds in cages for obvious practical reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:38 AM

"I don't feel that a cat should be kept a prisoner in the house"

Pet owners tend to project their own feelings into those of their pets. There is no reason to consider a cat being a "prisoner" in the house. If you had bird would you feel the same? Even a dog? The world of the cat has been adapted as they were domesticated and there are enough challenges and stimulation inside the average home to keep the animal happy. Because you or I might feel prisoners, there is no reason to assume the animal feels the same way.

I think it would be cruel to suddenly stop a cat from going outdoors once it is used to doing so. You can't change behavior. If the cat were trained as an indoor cat from birth, you will have no problems.

Our cats have not been declawed. Even modern practices remove part of their toes from what I have been shown. We have scratching posts and there have been no problems with furniture. Again, it is how they are trained - and you can train behavior in cats.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:01 AM

Crazy Cat Lady Action Figure!!!

It starts innocently enough... You find a little kitten on your doorstep and "rescue" it. Then, somehow, another cat comes along, and you take that one in, too. Then another. And another. Before long, you look in the mirror and... OH MY GOD!!! You're a Crazy Cat Lady!!!!

If this doesn't describe you, then you surely know someone who does fit this frightening scenario.

The people who designed The Crazy Cat Lady Action Figure certainly must know such a person. Because this bizarre toy captures the Cat Lady Phenomenon to a "T."

There she stands -- ratty bathrobe, checked pajama bottoms, headband, wild hair, and a fanatical look on her face. And she's surrounded by six cats that own her heart and soul.

The Crazy Cat Lady stands 5-1/4" tall and can be posed however you like.

Yes, you may be tempted to laugh at the Crazy Cat Lady. But, be warned, one day that Cat Lady may be yourself.

html link fixed - joe clone

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:08 AM

Credit where credit is do, Dickey. The above is by T.S. Elliot, though I suppose most know it.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Dickey
Date: 07 May 07 - 01:00 AM

The naming of cats is a difficult matter
It isn't just one of your holiday games
You may think at first I'm mad as a hatter
When I tell you a cat must have three different names

First of all, there's the name that the family use daily
Such as Peter, Augustus, Alonzo or James
Such as Victor or Jonathan, George or Bill Bailey
All of them are sensible, everyday names

There are fancier names if you think they sound sweeter,
Some for the gentlemen, some for the dames:
Such as Plato, Admetus, Electra, Demeter--
But all of them sensible everyday names.

But I tell you a cat needs a name that's particular
A name that's peculiar and more dignified
Else how can he keep up his tail perpendicular?
Or spread out his whiskers or cherish his pride?

Of names of this kind, I can give you a quorum
Such as Munkustrap, Quaxo or Coricopat
Such as Bombalurina, or else Jellylorum
Names that never belong to more than one cat

But above and beyond there's still one name left over
And that is the name that you will never guess
The name that no human research can discover
But the cat himself knows and will never confess

When you notice a cat in profound meditation
The reason, I tell you, is always the same
His mind is engaged in rapt contemplation
Of the thought, of the thought, of the thought of his name

His ineffable, effable, effanineffable
Deep and inscrutable singular name
Name, name, name, name, name, name

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 06 May 07 - 07:28 PM

A contribution from an English cat-lover who has lost much-loved cats to traffic on the busy road outside our house, and also shared life with some fuury purrers who have lived to a great age(18 in one instance).
We don't have a personal resident cat at the moment 'cos Oliver, who is street-wise 'n' careful,comes over to see us every day and has the watch as resident feline.
He is male, 13 year old, neutered, a great pal.
We cannot take seeing another of our pets killed by traffic. However, some never, ever, went on the road and lived to ripe old ages.
My humble opinion is that if you feel strong enough, and want a feline companion, let 'em out and take the consequences.
Some, about 50%, sail through the traffic, dogs, etc. and come out smiling. Some do not. Live with it. It's awful, but a fact of life/death.
In the UK we don't have racoons, coyotes etc.But traffic & dogs are a problem. I don't feel that a cat should be kept a prisoner in the house, even if the outside proves too much.
My thoughts.
I Love cats.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 07 - 06:49 PM

I agree with Dr. Fox. Here's another alternative to declawing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Mickey191
Date: 06 May 07 - 05:58 PM

The Gannett chain of newspapers carries a weekly column by a vet, Dr. Fox. I read it all the time-he is totally against flea collars & declawing. He reiterates constantly about the cruelty & pain involved in declawing. The flea collars threaten the cat's health because the body absorbs some of the poison. He also is in favor of keeping them housebound.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 06 May 07 - 05:26 PM

I'm relieved to hear they remove less these days. They used to cut the entire first joint off, bone and all, and I had the experience of seeing a botched case, where the cat never really recovered, and walked on its 'heels' the rest of its life. Put me thoroughly off the idea. Of course, declawing beats euthanasia - I've just never seen the need.

And for anyone who'd prefer to avoid declawing, there are products that work pretty well during early training - most of them contain bitter lemon, I think - doesn't stain or smell, kitties won't go near it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 May 07 - 03:06 PM

I think there is less that is removed now. The portion where the claw continues to grow is removed, but that is different than taking out the last joint.

Given that the choice of no claws in front means that a couple of less cats are euthanized at the animal shelter, I don't have a problem with it at all. I'm met anti-declaw folks who would still protest even in the face of that choice. Now that, I think, is nuts--it is a human failing deciding that it is the equivalent of chopping off your fingers and empathizing accordingly. Yet I don't see many people protesting the spay and neutering of animals. One is convenient for them, the other is convenient for me (though mine are also neutered).

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 06 May 07 - 12:26 PM

SRS, do they still cut the entire first toe joint off (like cutting all the first joints off of all your fingers)?

I've been able to train all my cats not to scratch furniture pretty easily, but maybe I've been lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 May 07 - 12:22 PM

When one starts throwing around terms like "cruel" and "inhumane" (I had this similar discussion recently on another forum) you stray into the realm of ethical and moral questions. If there isn't a defensible moral high ground, then perhaps you can get into those terms, but set them aside for this discussion. Pets are property, and there are cruelty laws in place in most areas regarding cruel treatment of this kind of property. But it is no more cruel to keep a cat in the house than it is to let it outside.

My cats are house cats because too many predators live nearby. But if I were to let them out, I would add them to my Invisible Fence system that is in place for the dogs. It works beautifully. It is also expensive, so is probably not something you're going to easily switch to. My cats are declawed in front (these days it is a simple, quick procedure and the animals probably aren't in much more pain than when you go to the dentist or get some small medical procedure). It saves the house and your sanity from the destruction cats can bring to furniture.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 06 May 07 - 12:08 PM

Ron, I'm not going to indulge myself in a really long argument about this, but some vets, depending partly on the location of their practices, I suspect, are having second thoughts about being dogmatic about this issue, and point to various issues faced by indoor cats.

Again, I am not stupid or uninformed about where I live: predators are rare, because there's little for them to eat. Ticks are unheard of, as there isn't much for them to eat, either. Anyone who lets their cat get fleas, with the topical longlasting applications that are available now, is not paying attention to their vet's advice. Before those were invented, my indoor cats had flea infestations regularly, because fleas can come in with people. Fixed cats are not as interested in territorial battles, and where cats are few in number and the territory large, they normally skirt each other's territory and don't bother to challenge.

(Okay, I lied about the long argument.)

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 May 07 - 11:57 AM

ooops.... that was a mistake. I meant to say that most vets would argue that allowing cats to roam outdoors would be cruel. Every vet we've ever used has supported keeping cats indoors.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 06 May 07 - 08:20 AM

Mickey, get a kitten of either sex and have it neutered young, odor is the same male and female if the cat's fixed. Or if you get an older cat at the shelter, handle it before deciding, to make sure it isn't unfriendly, and have it neutered if it isn't. Cats are usually litter trained by their mothers - I've never had a cat who couldn't figure out what the litter box was for, there is seldom an issue with house training as there is with dogs.

To keep odor down, clean the box frequently, sprinkle baking soda on the bottom before adding litter, get a covered litterbox. You can use scoopable litter as well, to make it last longer, but I personally just use the cheap clay litter and change it often.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Mickey191
Date: 06 May 07 - 12:23 AM

Need Advice. I've always had dogs-my co-op will no longer allow them. No restrictions on cats. Made up my mind that I will have an indoor cat.

Now what should I get? Male or Female--old or young?
I intend to go to the Local shelter. I do want to avoid the sometimes smell of cats. My neighbor said that a female would be best - no odor. Is that true?
How long will it take to housebreak? Thanks for any advice.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 07 - 11:33 PM

Not the vets I have known, who, btw, keep their cats indoors.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 05 May 07 - 11:29 PM

Don't let the habitat fool you. You might think that a rural setting has less cars and less opportunties for troubles, but they just face different obstacles. Cats have been domesticated, just like humans. Most people could not adapt to living in caves, and cats are the same.   Besides territorial battles with other cats, there are other predators, ticks and exposure to other dangers when they are allowed to roam free outdoors. You are being cruel when you keep a cat indoors - in fact most modern vets would argue the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 05 May 07 - 11:02 PM

Keep the cat in, keep the son out for creating this problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: mara325
Date: 05 May 07 - 10:06 PM

Hi:

If your inside cat wants to go out, try getting him something like this:

http://www.wildwhiskers.com/index.htm (An outdoor kitty tent).

I keep my cat Opie outside in one, he really likes it and it keeps him free from getting fleas etc.

Beannachtaí

Christie

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 05 May 07 - 09:54 PM

Once again, kat, habitat. We are way off the road, and coyotes are mainly creatures of the night, as are bobcats. We're also in glacier scraped coastal barrens and bog lands, so predators are rare - pickin's aren't as good as further inland. Of course there is always a chance that kitty will have the bad luck to meet one of those predators in daylight, just as there's always a chance he'll be caught in a house fire (which happened to two of my kitties - one survived, one did not) if he's kept indoors.

I've had very good luck with my outdoor kitties. They've lived long happy lives, and all but one were rodent specialists who rarely bothered birds. Cats do seem to specialise, by my observations.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 07 - 07:24 PM

That's always fine until they meet up with a coyote or an automobile, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 May 07 - 07:20 PM

We've had cats for years (counting visitors, about 30 of them). The only ones we've lost have been three indoor-only ones. The ones that used the catflap got the chance to learn their way back.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 05 May 07 - 05:45 PM

I sincerely think that it depends on your living circumstances. As I mentioned, I've had both indoor and outdoor cats. I actually discussed the issue with my vet, who I trust very much, and she also feels circumstances should dictate habitat.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: skipy
Date: 05 May 07 - 01:25 PM

It's a cat! and you want to "control" it! They can outwit a human at every turn!
Skipy (cat servant).

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Becca72
Date: 05 May 07 - 01:16 PM

I've had cats since I was 5 years old (that would be 30 years) and the only one that was ever let outside was the 1st one. He "never came home" and that was it. NO MORE outdoor cats. It is not very difficult to keep a cat from running outside if you try. I keep a can of treats near the door for when I come in (or I block their escape with whatever I'm carrying) and I throw a toy in the opposite direction when I leave. They chase the toy, and I duck out. As for the example of when the phone/cable/electrical worker is coming and going, lock the cat in another room. The outside world is very dangerous to kitties and there is no reason for them to be out there at all. Housecats do not "need" to be outside.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 07 - 11:58 AM

There's no need for the cat to go outdoors. You're the person. Don't let the cat out. If you have to post a sign at every door, so other members of the household don't let the cat out, post it. If you have to play "dodge the cat" when you bring in groceries, do it.

Hopefully, you have a screened porch or sun-room where the cat can get some fresh air.

What does your son want for the cat? When he takes it back, will it become an indoor cat again? Better to just keep it in.

And everything Greg B said about disease and injury and fleas & parasites and vet bills... you'll avoid all of that stuff if you keep the cat in.

Play with the cat & give it extra cuddling, and it'll be fine.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 05 May 07 - 06:52 AM

Oh my Liz, you brought back a fearful memory. Long ago, while I was a student, a friend came back from a year of touring places like Afghanistan, India, Morrocco. On his travels he picked up items to sell when he came back, including a heap of beautiful small rugs. A week after he moved into my student house, The Fleas hatched, multitudes of them, large, hungry, and human oriented. We had to have the house professionally fumigated, a big expense for a bunch of students, but it was that or be eaten alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 May 07 - 01:51 AM

Even indoor kitties that have never set foot in the outside world can pick up fleas and other parasites. You go outside don't you? Not everything you bring back in is groceries... we bought a bathmat from a very well known store where they don't waste money on extra packaging, brought it back, and laid it out in the nice warm bathroom.

The following day whilst on the loo, I sat there astonished as this brand new rug suddenly started literally jumping with fleas. Flea eggs can sit unhatched for weeks, then there is a trigger (usually warmth and vibration) that gets them hatching and lo and behold - fleas.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 May 07 - 12:32 AM

I am of the keep them in crowd, too. Mine went from prairie/ranch cats going in and out at will to being indoors all of the time for the rest of their lives and adjusted quite well. My current *crop* have always been inside, however they have a "chicken coop" we built up against the house. I open my office window, they go out on their "balcony", walk down a ramp and play in the grass, all within the safety of their 'coop." Keep us all happy. I never, ever want to find one of my cats dead on the road, again.

You can also buy commerical enclosures such as THESE and/or a mesh fence topper. Drs. Foster and Smith used to have them, but I couldn't find them, tonight. It's is secured to the top of your fence and juts out horizontally so that when the cat tries to climb over the fence it winds up butting the mesh with its forehead and can't get any further. At least that's the theory. I've never tried it as I figure my cats would find a loop hole somewhere in the fence or the topper.

Good luck,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: GUEST,Scoville
Date: 04 May 07 - 08:57 PM

Keep her in. Get her a kitty gym and one of those things with the ball in the round track to keep her busy. It's much safer for her and you'll spare yourself a lot of worry and a lot of flea medication.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: mrdux
Date: 04 May 07 - 04:13 PM

. . . and, of course, the danger that cats outdoors pose to local wildlife should be kept in mind too. Here's a rather clear-eyed discussion of the subject: Cats and Wildlife.

michael

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Greg B
Date: 04 May 07 - 03:28 PM

I believe an investment in a screen door for your back door, and
keeping the indoor cat an indoor cat will be the least grief and
heartache for all involved.

Besides the problem of loss, there's the question of fleas and
the diseases (like heartworm) they bring. Then there is the
problem of parasites and other diseases acquired from eating
wild-caught birds and rodents. And injuries inflicted by potential
prey as well as rival cats.

Failing that, the people who make the 'invisible dog fencing'
now offer a similar system for cats.

It can be used in the back yard--- or just across the back
door.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 04 May 07 - 02:15 PM

We leash trained ours until they learned to stay in the yard. They know if they wander too far they get put inside. But it takes time and a lot of patience and we never let them outside on their own Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Bee
Date: 04 May 07 - 12:07 PM

It's almost impossible, if you live in the country and do country type things like gardening and yard work and bringing in firewood and sitting on the wharf, screen door or not, to keep a cat in the house at all times. They want to be out, with you or without you, and will be waiting for the chance all the time. Far better, IMO, to train the cat to come when you call, to make sure it gets used to being outdoors and learns that there are dangers (one good wetting keeps cats from jumping off wharves, for instance; and being scared up a tree by an ATV is a good learning experience about engine noises). And make sure they are indoors for the night, when it is far easier to keep 'em there.

One of my neighbours has an expensive purebred indoor cat, and in spite of heroic efforts, that cat has gotten out dozens of times, whether it's someone coming in the door with arms full of groceries, Jehovah's insisting on handing you literature, or the phone repair man going in and out as he fetches tools and tests lines. And once out, that cat has not a clue, doesn't come when called, gets frightened and runs further away, and endangers itself through kitty-ignorance.

I've had indoor city cats and outdoor country cats, and the oldest was an outdoor kitty of 18 wise years.

My present cat is eight months old. I let him in and out during the day. He comes when called, and I make a fuss of him when he comes. In the evening, I go out and call him, then I play with him outside for a while, so he knows there's playing waiting at that time. Then I pick him up, snuggle him and carry a happy kitty in to his supper. So far that works very well.

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:43 AM

http://www.jonbanjo.org/forum/forum.php

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:42 AM

Must confess, I pinched this from one've our ozzy chums on The Annexe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UAwZKL4_0w

Subject: RE: BS: Cats
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 04 May 07 - 10:21 AM

WHY do you feel the cat needs to go outdoors? I guess it is a cultural difference, but there is enough evidence that supports keeping cat indoors for a longer, healthier life.   There is a misconception that cats lack stimulation if they are kept indoors, but that is far from the truth. Outdoor dangers, especially to a cat that is not used to being outside, can really damage their personality.