BS: Why are we still building with wood

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 May 07 - 01:49 AM

I've had just the opposite experience. The older I get, the less hard it is.


Oh.


Bye now...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 May 07 - 10:10 PM

"The older I get, the angrier I get..."


             I've had just the opposite experience. The older I get, the harder it is to get mad.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:18 PM

So where is your mother going to move to? Seems to me she has made a lifestyle choice and should be left the hell alone.......

I had a mortgage closing recently where the appraiser indicated the property was in a flood zone. My husband- the attorney -who does our research indicated it was NOT in the flood zone -- none the less, my buyer, a first time buyer - young and broke - has to pay $100 a month in flood insurance premium to live on a street that has not had any flooding problems since the great flood of whenever it was.

The older I get, the angrier I get

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 May 07 - 01:35 AM

The above also includes fire codes & permits

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 May 07 - 01:30 AM

I think if the insurance people stepped on the plate any more than they have the game would be over & we'd be out.
My mother lives on Cape Cod, been ther in her wooden house, right on the water for nearly 50 yrs & weathered mnay hurricanes & floods, never once even after riding out a few 100yrs storms, has she had to rebuild, renovate or restore her house but she does now have to move out because this 77 yr old women can't meet the costs of manditory flood ins. So much for ins. companies. They cover their asses, assets & profits, they are not that interested in covering the properties nor are they interested in in the practice of building any more than a bank wants to become a realitor.

The ones who are interested in how building are erected are the town & city building departments. When an owner whats a building it they that deciede what they want. They have the say above all others what they want, they say this is what & this is what I'll spend. If they can only go this far in the process then they hire an engineer, architect, designer, builder or contractor. For there the owner the rest figure out wat suits the owners needs & the means & methods it'll take to give the owner a product that suits the wants, needs & disires of the owner. From there the plans, ideas & drawings are overlooked by the building department to check if all is doable by codes & building standards & practices, before a construction permit
is issued along with plumbing, electrical, sewer & others permits. All is checked & ok'd before the start of the project. As the project continues the inspector have to visit the site before signing off during certain phases of construction. Depending on where the project is being built & the enviorment the building departments may have other local standards that need to be met. An example, San Francisco won't allow any wood shakes for roofing unless they been fire treaated or fire retardant, Mexico City is very careful about basements & cellars that need to be stable ontop of high water tables, Florida wants hurricane practices followed. So the building departments & inspectors are responsible for what goes up & how it gose up & sometime what is used. They see to it that all general standards & practices are adhered to & met up until signing & issuing an occupancy permit. This goes for commercial as well as residential through out the US. In the cases where someone wants a structure that's far from the usuall it's up to the owner/builder/architect/etc to convince the building departments of it usefullness & worthyness, they may or may not sign of on it. Some won't go for anything, some are more openminded than others as well as some may just be idiots & then there are that would love to see the results.
Some short cuts are taken sometimes but as someone who's been in the construction trades better than 35 yrs, it doesn't happen often without the knowledge of someone who signs off on it. There are some inspectors & departments that are lacking too as well as builders, designers etc. but not that many. In my lifetime I've seen far more that practice good building techniques than shoddy. And generally you only see shoddy workmanship & practice when the owner is trying to short change the builder into taking short cuts, that's where the building inspectors, town clerks & others come in to make sure all is "above board".
So, what it comes down to is personal judgment. I want this & have this much to spend, my concerns are such & such. Here's when "green building" & "environmentally friendly", structurally longevity, aesthetics & style come into play. The government & the building codes only regulate up to so much, and a good portion of that concerns safety, they do not enforce the ways & means or the hows' & whys', that is up to the owner & builder or who ever else is involved in the project unless it's a goverment project & government funds are involved. Yes, some one can use cheap concrete or do some otherwise shaddy practice or use some substandard material but they better hope that fails after they're dead because there is generally a trail to follow.
Mg this seems to be flowing a bit like the poverty thread where you'd love to regulate practices, for the better of those that don't know better & all the while doing it for their own good.
Anyway, I hope this has added a bit of light to the discussion.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 07 - 12:49 AM

mg,
I respectfully disagree that "people are not given options" in housing. I have personally used the options of living in a 10-feet-wide house trailer, a concrete high-rise dormitory, a new brick house in a subdivision, a 1950s brick-and-stone-and timber mishmash, and a old farmhouse. My grandfathers each designed and built their own homes. My parents have had two houses built to their specifications (one a partly stone, mostly frame house and the other a log cabin, both in West Virginia, where tsunamis are unknown, tornadoes are rare, and stone and wood are plentiful). My wife and I are currently in the long, slow, expensive process of remodeling a partly-bricked wood frame house. If we were required to remodel with stone or brick, the process would be even slower. We know a good carpenter. We don't know a good mason. Just one more reason we like having liberty (and we'd like a little more, please).
Kent Davis

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Metchosin
Date: 18 May 07 - 12:44 AM

"but it is the rare person, and I can't think of one, who has built his or her own home to specifications."

I did as well, including drafting of the plans, I dug holes, I poured and screeded concrete, I worked on the framing, siding and roofing. I wired the place, did a fair bit of the drywall and most of the painting. A substantial amount of our building materials were produced within a 50 mile radius. The windows were made from recut salvage glass and a lot of the interior finishings were salvage as well.

We did not do it to be intentionally "green", the term was not coined then, we did it as a statement of independence. It was also the cheapest way, at the time, to provide ourselves with what we considered affordable housing and to provide us with the kind of house that we wanted, that had relatively little to do with suburbia.

At the time, we were not considered unique. A lot of our friends did exactly the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Rowan
Date: 18 May 07 - 12:01 AM

"but it is the rare person, and I can't think of one, who has built his or her own home to specifications."

Depending on what you mean by "to specifications", I have. Which is why I consider myself to be both rare and lucky, "Liberty" can be a moveable feast but the local building inspector has been known to approve dirt floors. Properly constructed, compressed and finished, of course, and not in "wet areas".

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 17 May 07 - 11:58 PM

Also fire departments..especially now where you have more townhouses..to me that is so scary...having a common wall with someone you don't know...do they leave the pots untended on the stove? Electric heaters near blankets etc. You just don't know and stuff can spread....and for apartment houses to be allowed to be built with something not really fireproof..nuts...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 17 May 07 - 11:10 PM

yeah..I've been trying to figure out what volcano Seattle is built on..could be though...

And as for liberty..I am all for it..but people are not given options in housing..there are older homes and there are new development homes but it is the rare person, and I can't think of one, who has built his or her own home to specifications. And the builders, even the best, have to work with profit in mind and don't have to face long-term consequences in general. The public does, by being trapped in these houses of cards in tornados, by not being able to clean them properly after a flood, by burning alive in a fire. If there were true choices, and they could be implemented, it would be different, but for now it just isn't, at least the people I hobnob with.

I think the insurance people need to step up to the plate and make some noises in some areas aboutwhat is and isn't insurable in the future...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST
Date: 17 May 07 - 10:45 PM

The reason that building with wood is allowed is liberty. Liberty means you get to decide what kind of house you build or buy. If you want to buy a concrete house, you can; and you don't have to justify it to me or anyone else. If you want a wooden one, or a straw bale house, or a house trailer, or an underground bunker, you can decide that for yourself. You know what house is best for you. Or even if you don't, it's not my place, or anyone else's place to make that decision for you. This applies also to your religion, your philosophy, your choice in music, etc. Liberty is messy and inefficient, but central economic planning tends to be messier and less efficient.
Sincerely,
Kent Davis

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 May 07 - 08:18 PM

Girlygirl 5:19 (man, I hate these cutesy names. lol): I mean, geez, the city of Seattle is built on a volcano.

Do you refer to Mt. Rainier?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 17 May 07 - 06:38 PM

"Why are we still building with wood?"

          Marble has gotten too expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: 3refs
Date: 17 May 07 - 08:02 AM

"You cannot make the sun rise. You cannot stop it from rising. It is therefore beyond your power...or any human power. It is therefore in the jurisdiction of what we can term as "a higher power"..."higher" meaning something beyond our reach or control."

I'd like to suggest your wrong on this one L.H.! If we can use, what I'll refer to as artificial power(which we have), one has the ability to never witness the sun rise or forever have it on your horizon.

The ball idea is right on though!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 May 07 - 08:25 PM

Current price here is about AUD$1.35 a litre...

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 May 07 - 05:34 PM

"Bring on the $5 gasoline, as far as I'm concerned."

That's about equivalent to £3 for an English gallon, or 60p a litre. That is cheap!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,TTJ
Date: 16 May 07 - 11:36 AM

For Donuel, remember that ducks also float!

I like the idea of an earth-sheltered straw bale house with some concrete re-inforcement. This obviously wouldn't work in a low-lying area prone to flooding, but it would be good for areas subject to tornados. Areas prone to earthquakes would require some sophisticated shock-absorbing technology.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 May 07 - 12:29 PM

I'm tellin' ya, man, the spherical stainless steel ball house that rolls in a high wind and floats out the tsunami is the answer! Buy one now. If you don't like being inside a metal ball, get the rubber version instead. Looks and feels and bounces just like a great big rubber ball!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST
Date: 09 May 07 - 12:17 PM

"Well, I am not asking why individuals or developers build with it..I ask why it is allowed, at least in certain places"...mg

To respond to what you said in your original post regarding why they would still allow people to build with wood in light of the Kansas tornado (among other recent disasters), as someone from a small midwest town, I have a hunch that many of the homes in Greensburg, Kan., weren't new homes.

Many small towns in the midwest, especially ones located a great distance from hub cities (Garden City, Hutchinson, Wichita, Dodge City, Pratt in this case) generally aren't seeing a boom of new several hundred thousand dollar homes being built. They are older homes that have been there for years.

I don't know if Greensburg was necessarily like that, but that's my hunch.

Regardless of what they homes there were built with, when an F5 tornado with 205 mph winds blows through, even the sturdiest of structures will sustain some damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Rowan
Date: 08 May 07 - 07:26 PM

Well, I built my house using concrete, bricks, timber (my woodwork teacher always criticised us if we said we used wood in carpentry, called "Sloyd" in those days) and steel.

At 1000m ASL and 3 hours' drive from the nearest coast I think I'm safe from tsunami, but they didn't really cross my mind when planning. I'mm well out of the cyclone belt until global warming really kicks in and I did give that some thought, which is why it is a passive-solar house. At about 50m above the general terrain, which slopes to the north I don't have to worry about flooding and the local creek flows at about three teaspoons/month at the moment so I don't regard flooding as a problem.

Earthquakes haven't been recorded around here for a few megamillenia but it is a post and beam with compressed earth walls infilling, all on a suspended (concrete) slab and brick dwarf walls. The steel is the roof; steel frames play the devil with radio and other electromagnetic media. The various components were selected by using criteria such as, they best met the various requirements of such a house, they were available in terms of accessibility and affordability and, overall, minimised my footprint as much as I could within those constraints. Especially with me doing most of the work.

And I must confess, I have found working with timber to be more pleasing, to all the senses, than working at fabrications using metals, concrete, rock or bricks.

But bushfires do exercise my mind. Like Peace, I am well aware of what happens in fires both inside and outside buildings, having been an instructor and assessor in the Rural Fire Service. Fortunately, my ecological training allows me some ability to aesthetically manage the fuel hazards while still giving the impression (to most) that the bush is wild and not "managed".

But I too wonder about the South Carolinians who rejected legislation (on the grounds of their fifth amendment) that would have required houses that had been destroyed by Hurricane Hugo to be rebuilt using building codes (borrowed, I think, from the Cyclone Tracey aftermath) that would have improved their survivability, and about the urban-rural interface dwellers around Sydney and Melbourne who rebuilt their burned out homes in exactly the same places using exactly the same fire-prone rechniques that the burned out houses had.

A speaker at the 2003 Wildland Fire Conference described the Californian fires and all us Aussies wondered about the differences and similarities. It seemed the Californians lived in a local govt context where the house owners could build whatever they liked adjacent to public land and sue the public land managers if so much as a spark came over the fence. In our view, this took all the onus and responsibility off the private citizen and put it all onto the public authority and fitted with our, perhaps biassed, views on American society. But the Oz situation is really no better. Whereas local govt does have planning powers over developments, it usually chooses not to exercise them, a situation exacerbated when estate agents constitute the majority of councillors.

Enough rambling from me.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 08 May 07 - 06:49 PM

just some thoughts ...
In my former home tome in the Czech Republic, (several hundred years ago houses, and smaller buildings used to be wood. But probably around 400 years ago, people mostly switched to stone and brick construction probably because wood was harder to find.

My 87 year old great aunt lives in a 500 year old stone house. They usually built two stone walls and filled the space with lime and rubble
(walls are 3-4ft thick) OVer the centuries they have become very strong
and the thickness of the walls, keeps them cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

The more modern houses would be built with cinder block construction
and stucco finish..
BUt when I mention to my Czech relatives that in Vancouver its pretty much all woodframe construction, they often like the idea..thinking that home renovation would be easier with wood frame construction.

I like the idea of cob houses and straw bale construction - although it seems that there are no real building codes for these materials.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 08 May 07 - 06:32 PM

Well, I am not asking why individuals or developers build with it..I ask why it is allowed, at least in certain places...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Bill D
Date: 08 May 07 - 05:25 PM

shades of Beige

We are still building with wood because it is...for now...cheaper. Also, it is easier for an average guy to correct, upgrade, tinker with...etc. than concrete, brick or metal.
In some areas, wood is plentiful, in some it is scarce...but when it is available, it is often the cheapest, fastest way to cover your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 May 07 - 05:07 PM

I like your analysis of the situation, Minerva. Unlike many people you are looking at the entire situation rather than only at one isolated aspect of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,Minerva
Date: 08 May 07 - 10:13 AM

A basic point is missing here. Fundamentally, it's not because "that's the way we've always done it," or "the developers all decide what we build with," etc., etc.

In some parts of the world, you will see almost nothing built of concrete. This is because there is no limestone within a reasonable haul distance. Much of northern Europe, with its numerous stone buildings and stone pavements falls in this category. Iceland has one calcium carbonate deposit for the whole island - an offshore shell bank.

In some parts of the world, you will see almost nothing built of wood. This is because there are few if any trees for very long distances.

In some parts of the world, you will rarely, if ever, see a brick structure. This is because there are limited clay deposits with suitable characteristics nearby. Conversely, in some localities, brick is very common, becasue good clays are nearby. The same is true for stone. You can't just say, "Let's all build stone buildings, because it will be friendlier to the forests," because the cost of hauling rocks (in both currency and fuel and consequent CO2 production) is exhorbitant; Most of the cost of rock is the hauling cost. Thus, St. Louis is packed with brick buildings, and Kansas City with stone.

Unfortunatley, our society is trending toward the casual presumption that anything can be mindlessly hauled anywhere else. Thus, you now see metal-stud framed homes thousands of miles from the strip mines and coal pits; wood-framed or log houses thousands of miles from the newly clear-cut forest tracks in the decimated wilderness; bricks, hundreds of miles form any clay pit. Styrofoam thousands of miles from the petroleum refinery and spewing chemical plant. All to feed the mindless craving for "luxury", comfort (we're talking serous comfort here), and excess "decor" that dominates our society.

Same way people haul their own ass fifty miles to work in their luxury sedan because they got inadvertantly and unintentionally brainwashed by some jackass "country western" soap opera about how they wished they lived "in the country".

Bring on the $5 gasoline, as far as I'm concerned. It is well deserved.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST
Date: 08 May 07 - 09:23 AM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 10:12 PM

Ahem! Much like ambrosia I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:45 PM

Yes, but grey is not beige. Beige has a certain warmth to it, whereas grey is either cold or neutral. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: mg
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:29 PM

oh please not here..9 months of grey weather, grey cement, grey ocean, grey sky, pale Scandinavian faces (no offense, I am sure some get sun tans), grey cars...at least people don't tend to wear gray clothes here but a lot of navy blue and forest green..red suspenders if a former lumberjack...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:22 PM

You may be correct, Foolestroupe, that our world only exists in our minds. ;-) That is a concept embraced by many of the Eastern philosophies.

In the context OF our world as we know it objectively, however, we cannot control the sunrise. If our world is simply our collective mental illusion, then of course, the entire thing can be "stopped" the moment we stop imagining it!

And that is a goal sought by some on the path to enlightenment, so I've heard. That's why what they find when they get there is said to be indescribable, since it doesn't fall within any of our known points of reference.

Beige is a lovely colour! And a very useful one. We need more and more and more beige, that's what I say. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:37 PM

"you might say that we must submit to the sunrise happening in a way that is completely beyond our control"

Yep.... then again you might not - Mankind do not want to willingly submit to the sunrise - that's why we have reed lamps, and electrickery... :-P and why you are not alseep right now - it's daylight here.... :-)

"therefore it is happening through the mechanism of a higher power."

Ah...

"You cannot make the sun rise. You cannot stop it from rising. It is therefore beyond your power...or any human power. It is therefore in the jurisdiction of what we can term as "a higher power"..."higher" meaning something beyond our reach or control."

Our 'world' only exists in our 'minds'¹, so it ceases when our minds cease. Thus I can stop the sun from rising, or cause the world to come to an end by doing all I can to speed the end times whereupon I will be translated to another plane - hopefully Business Class, with free drinks...


'But it moves...'²


"WHAT is beige?"

Billy Connelly's father told him thatthe world is being taken over by beige - "Always fight the beige, Son!"




¹ Well, that's another topic... :-)
² So do my Bowels... :-)


:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:12 PM

Ommmmmmm

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:10 PM

Actually, neither one of them is stationary. The sun too is in motion in the greater context of the rest of the Universe. But, yes, the Earth does rotate around the sun. Be that as it may, none of us is in control of the sunrise. Therefore you might say that we must submit to the sunrise happening in a way that is completely beyond our control...therefore it is happening through the mechanism of a higher power. You can describe that higher power any way you want to...scientifically, philosophically, or religiously. That's up to you.

That higher power does not have to be defined as a sentient "God", if that's what is bothering you, Foolestroupe. ;-)

You cannot make the sun rise. You cannot stop it from rising. It is therefore beyond your power...or any human power. It is therefore in the jurisdiction of what we can term as "a higher power"..."higher" meaning something beyond our reach or control.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:09 PM

"The sun is not stationary. It too moves."

It moves, so say those who have a wider perspective than was necessary to deal with your trivial question... :-)

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:07 PM

Ideas R Us

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:05 PM

We're trying to figure out a useful way to utilize knots.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 08:01 PM

The sun is not ststionary. It too moves.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 07 May 07 - 07:59 PM

"come talk to me AFTER you figure out how to make the sun rise"

The sun does not rise, except from your limited perspective - I believe the earth rotates in front of a staionary sun.

:-P

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:45 PM

Thank you. If it ain't yer basic rainbow colour with ish, sorta or cross between, it gets me lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Donuel
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:19 PM

because witches are made of wood?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 07 - 06:03 PM

Beige in Colorado is a basic light shite brown!

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:42 PM

Basic rule should be, use local materials, and take full account of traditional techniques.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:34 PM

"why in the world do they paint their houses beige?"

WHAT is beige?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,ttj
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:32 PM

Hello all,

   I just kind of stumbled on your website here and I don't know much about the Mudcat Cafe (interesting name, though). I live in Brazil and here houses are made with a lot of concrete and very fragile hollow ceramic bricks that are reinforced with a lot of cement covering. It's a very inefficient way to build a house and it can take up to 2 years depending on your financing conditions. The weather here is mild, though, so people can get away with it.
   Personally, I really like wood because it is so easy to work with and buildings can go up very quickly.
   On the other hand, wood doesn't seem to make sense for people who live in areas with a lot of severe weather. I think if I were living in Kansas or Oklahoma, or other tornado alleys in the midwest U.S., I would think seriously about rebuilding a destroyed home in all wood structure.
    It seems that now would be an interesting time for people in those areas to consider building earth-bermed houses with some reinforced concrete, stone, and maybe some hay bales. There is a huge amount of area there and the land must be reasonably priced, but I'd imagine many people are hesitant to move there because of the occasionally violent weather. Maybe now would be an opportunity for those people to build some more solid and perhaps environmentally friendly structures that could withstand the weather...anyone agree with me? Really, perhaps we need to get the developers to think about this...any aspiring developers out there?

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: GUEST,Girlygirl
Date: 07 May 07 - 05:19 PM

Where would you suggest to move? If you really think about it, there is no place on earth that is not subject to the power of mother nature.

Gulf States (and much of the East Coast for all that matters) are subject to devastating hurricanes. The West Coast is subject to fires and earthquakes. Everyone living within a few miles of the coastline is subject to tsunamis. Every state between North Dakota and Texas has suffered some sort of natural disaster at one time or another.


I mean, geez, the city of Seattle is built on a volcano.

If Yellowstone erupted it would take out half the country -- not just Wyoming. A quake along the New Madrid Fault would take out the city of St. Louis (not to mention the devastation it would cause in the rest of Missouri and Illinois.) Many major cities in the United States are subject to earthquakes (check the USGS to find out which ones). Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee -- all subject to tornados as well.


It's not just the Unites States either. Istanbul, Turkey sits on a major fault like. We're all well aware of what Mt. Vesuvius did to Pompeii and Herculaneum in 79. It's erupted several times since.
Yet, two million people live in its vicinity, and the Italian government has offered incentives for folks to move because they're afraid of what would happen if it were to erupt. Still, residents don't want to move.

Why? Because it's their home.

I know someone who lives in Kansas whose house -- made of wood -- has stood for the past 100 years. They've had several tornados pass right over their house, but they've just been lucky not to have major damage.

Whether you become victim to a natural disaster is merely a matter of luck and the will of a higher power. (For those who don't believe in a higher power, come talk to me AFTER you figure out how to make the sun rise.)

Instead of asking why anyone would live there, we all just need to remember that sometimes s**t happens. Everyone needs insurance and a deep love for his fellow man because none of us ever know when that s**t is going to happen to us.

Peace

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 07 - 02:32 PM

People use what they like to use and what they can afford. Stick built is still cheapest.

Having said that there are other considerations. Here in Guam typhoons can spring to life and hit us with only 72 hours notice. Plus we have earthquakes. And we have a particularly voracious Asian termite that loves to eat up wood. Consequently most houses resemble concrete bunkers. It works for us.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 May 07 - 02:18 PM

"Get a better lumber yard! Bob"

                     I'm in Oregon. They must be shipping all the good lumber to Iraq and China.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 May 07 - 11:31 AM

In the US, for the most part what is built, how it is built , and where it is built is pretty much determined by the developers.

They do not decide based on what is best for the community. They do not decide on what is safest. They do not decide based on what is the prettiest. IThey decide based on what they can build the fastest, and sell for the most money.

Before you can change anything else, you have to change that.

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 May 07 - 09:21 AM

Some of the houses here now have sprinkler systems installed. Wonderful, helps the firefighters and cuts the cost of house insurance!

Of course, the guy who inspected the sprinkler system at the library last week told me that these systems aren't maintained after they are installed -- "Nah, I'm not gonna spend money on THAT!" So if the house burns the insurance will pay nothing, zip, nada, nil.

Not to mention the unnecessary danger to those who live there or have to fight a fire there....

Subject: RE: BS: Why are we still building with wood
From: dianavan
Date: 07 May 07 - 04:11 AM

I like wooden houses and wooden boats the best but where are you going to find that sturdy, straight grain, first growth fir these days? I can't even find a nice board to make a shelf in the city. On my home island, all the houses are made of cedar and fir. The finishing inside is usually a combination of red and yellow cedar. Floors are fir, maple or even alder. Stone is used for fireplaces, steps and foundations. Roofs used to be shakes but now corrugated metal or asphalt is used because of fire.

mg - The sand houses by Khalili are absolutely beautiful. Do you think they would work in the rain? They look very suitable for the desert. I love the design. I can also see them nestled amongst the dunes near the ocean. I am amazed because its almost as if he has taken an ancient idea and brought it forward. Gorgeous! I think I would need more light but it would be a great little summer cabin. Thanks for the link.