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King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!

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catspaw49 12 Jul 09 - 12:06 AM
GUEST 12 Jul 09 - 10:16 AM
GUEST,Russ 12 Jul 09 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,Russ 12 Jul 09 - 11:10 AM
catspaw49 12 Jul 09 - 11:30 AM
Janie 22 Jul 09 - 11:26 PM
Janie 22 Jul 09 - 11:44 PM
GUEST,Russ 23 Jul 09 - 06:23 AM
GUEST,Canyonguy 22 Dec 09 - 06:23 PM
GUEST,Andy Peterson in Portland OR 23 Dec 09 - 12:41 AM
gnu 16 Apr 11 - 02:00 PM
Janie 16 Apr 11 - 05:52 PM
catspaw49 16 Apr 11 - 06:23 PM
gnu 16 Apr 11 - 09:09 PM
Janie 16 Apr 11 - 11:32 PM
GUEST,Russ 17 Apr 11 - 08:51 PM
catspaw49 18 Apr 11 - 04:09 AM
Stringsinger 18 Apr 11 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,Philippa 08 Dec 12 - 04:20 PM
JohnInKansas 08 Dec 12 - 05:46 PM
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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 12:06 AM

So we're all struck speechless!

But that brokedick jadrool of a nabob governor there made some remarks (I can no longer find DAMMIT) to the effect that not only were the people of WVA getting the profits from being the coal supplier to the country but that USEFUL RECLAMATION (like the golf course) could only add to the revenues and pleasure of its citizens.

Is he for fuckin' real?

He forgot to mention the carnage and rape of the land and wildlife or the fact that the ground water continues to get worse and worse in shades of gray to black. There's a lot he forgot to mention.......

Its another page in the dichotomous history of coal but this latest destruction and those who support it are just out beyond the pale. I fear for what atrocities may be on the horizon.....Whe I was a kid we would go out on a Sunday to see the great stripping shovel, the "Gem of Egypt," later replaced by the "Silver Spade." Nobody liked strip mining but the technology was impressive as it was later when the world's largest dragline, "Big Muskie".........a brute of an earth mover with a freeway sized bucket. Why did we do that?

In other parts of the Appalachians, deep mines were killing men in any number of ways and stealing the land right out from under what had once been the rightful owners. And yet we were all told that that what would save the region was coal, Appalachia's greatest natural resource. So we fought for the rights of miners to earn a living when we should have fought for the government programs that went everywhere else.

Christ almighty.........I wanna' kill somebody just thinking about it. I hate myself for ever looking with anything but disdain on that vile black rock. How much land gone? How many dead and dying of horrid diseases? What was the cost........and can we ever measure it against the gain, no matter how much it may be?


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF U
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 10:16 AM

Not at all related to this thread, but is the best place I know to hope to communicate with Russ right now.

Russ, I'm over on the Eastern Shore of MD right now at my sister Annie's house. She was sharing with me about a private festival she attended a week or so ago on the Sassafras River where she met and greatly enjoyed a guy named Russ and his wife Gail, and that Russ was from Mingo Co.

Was that by any chance you?

Janie


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 11:07 AM

Janie,

Bingo!

Annie is super cool. Tell her to give you a heads up hext year so that you can come to sassafras too.

Russ (Permanent GUEST unmasked)


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 11:10 AM

Spaw,

I appreciate your passion but the "brokedick jadrool of a nabob governor" wasn't elected because he promised to bring the coal companies to heel.

If you want a short or non-existent politcal career in WV, threaten the power structure.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jul 09 - 11:30 AM

Yeah......I know.......and more is the pity. I have personally believed for some time that there is no winning in WVA or Kentucky or Ohio or anywhere else that coal holds serve. The rich get rich and the rest of us..................Doesn't mean I have to like it or that I can't rant and rave but I really don't know of any action that will turn the tide in any major way.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF U
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:26 PM

The billboards promoting coal driving up I-77/WV Turnpike are remarkable. They are clearly geared toward West Virginia voters, and I imagine they are highly effective in getting the voters behind the Coal Lobby in WV.

And more thread-drift to contact Russ.

Russ, Annie says to tell you that you and Gail have to go to the Getaway. I can vouch for what a wonderful gathering it is for singers. There are two threads recently started about the 2009 Getaway. It is sponsored by FSGW, and Annie and I have attended the last 6 or 7 years. A wonderful retreat held at West River, about 35-40 minutes south of Annapolis on the western shore of the Bay. It is not a festival. It is a participatory retreat with people interested in every "genre" of folk music.

Check out past Getaway threads, and/or e-mail me at endresgardenataoldotcom.

Annie was quite firm that the two of you would love it and wanted me to contact you regarding it - and she is not generally so vehement!


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF U
From: Janie
Date: 22 Jul 09 - 11:44 PM

The billboards are striking. Very simple, pristine white with one line in coal black. "Clean coal? YES."


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 23 Jul 09 - 06:23 AM

Janie,

Thanks for the heads-up and the email address.

Looks promising.

We've got to stop meeting like this:)

I will email you.

Russ (Permanent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Canyonguy
Date: 22 Dec 09 - 06:23 PM

Get behind Judy Bonds


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Andy Peterson in Portland OR
Date: 23 Dec 09 - 12:41 AM

The only way we are going to STOP mountaintop removal is to close down the coal fired power plants that create the demand.

Portland, Oregon has an air pollution problem, especially when the east wind blows out of the Columbia River Gorge. On the other side of the Gorge is the PGE coal-fired power plant in Boardman.

We are working _very_ hard to get this plant shut down, as well as one in Centralia, Washington. Most of the coal for these plants, several trains _every_day_, comes from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana.


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 02:00 PM

I see the is a show on Spike TV called "Coal". Forgive me if this was posted elsewhere... is it any good?


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: Janie
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 05:52 PM

I saw the first one. I believe it is a 6 episode reality series, and yes, it is.


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 06:23 PM

I have seen all three so far and agree with Janie. Its a deep mine show and if it doesn't do anything else, it brings out quite vivdly the "Dichotomy of Coal."

While we are concerned over what mining does to the miners, the land, and the community, it pays the rent for so many............


Spaw


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: gnu
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:09 PM

Maybe off topic...

On a previous coal type thread that was not long ago (I wish I could recall/find it) I.... wait... I have a thought... nope... I searched mountain top removal to no avail.

Anyway... I recall somone posting about their home county. I went to google earth and zoommed in. I was fascinated by the railways through the valleys... nay, fucking amazed!!!! The money... the men... the time... the equipment!!! Seriously. Follow these rails through the mountains on google earth from the mountain tops of Appalachia to the seaports and it's a journey worth taking. It is truly fascinating.


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: Janie
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 11:32 PM

Maybe even more off-topic, gnu, but the same can be said for the building of roads in West Virginia. The building of the railroads, the WV Turnpike, and later, the interstate and "corridor" system of roads built nearly to interstate standards required innovative development and pioneering of engineering technologies later used throughout the world. Bad for the environment in many cases, but good for mobility, and also resulted in the better standards of living, including health care, that accessibility brings.

West Virginia is unique in that it is the only State that is completely within the rugged terrain of the Appalachian mountains and plateau. This has huge significance in terms of culture and economy, and has, for the most part, meant that marketable natural resources (lumber, coal and natural gas,) have been the only realistic means of livelihood in the region since it was settled by Europeans. Even pre-European populations of Native Americans did not tend to establish settlements there. It was hunting grounds for a number of tribes, but home base for none after the "Mound Builders."

I grew up in the Kanawha Valley in the 1950's and 60's. Pre EPA and environmental laws.   Chemical Valley.    Isolated as we were, during the Cold War and time of nuclear proliferation and testing, the Kanawha Valley was considered a prime target for nuclear attack. We were among the three top concentrations for the US chemical industry. Union Carbide, Monsanto, I.E. Dupont and FMC had plants all up and down the Kanawha River. I don't recall, but some of them may have had their Corporate headquarters located there. The air stank. The water in the Kanawha was a chemical cesspool and was undrinkable. Even though the waterworks were on Elk River, the backflow from the Kanawha into the Elk often made the water taste and smell so bad we couldn't drink it, and occasionally, even in the absence of the standards we have today, there would be advisories to not drink tap water due to chemical spills that had backed up into the Elk.

Environmental laws changed much of that beginning in the 70's. The air never stinks. I still wouldn't eat anything caught in the Kanawha, but fish other than carp and catfish do live and thrive there now. The water from the Elk, while still silty from the long, long history of timbering along it's long flow, does not get seriously contaminated by chemical backflow from the Kanawha, and never stinks coming out of the tap, or has an "off" color.

Most of the chemical plants are gone - moved overseas to places where it is still legal to pollute heavily, where they are even welcomed as economic engines, as they once were in the Kanawha Valley. The jobs went with them, as well as the environmental disaster.

Remember the Union Carbide Bhopal disaster? The methyl isocynate leak that killed thousands of people in India? 3 miles from my mother's house, where I grew up, there is an underground storage facility where, until just a few years ago, large amounts of methyl isocynate was stored. The stockpile is now greatly diminished, and as the result of a law suit, will soon be entirely gone, moved to I know not where, but assuredly to a Third World country with little or no enironmental law. The original stockpile belonged to Union Carbide. Driven by our own national environmental laws, not matched in India, at least at the time, Union Carbide had moved most of it's production of this lethal chemical to Bhopal. They were still storing it in my back yard, so to speak, but were no longer manufacturing it in my backyard at the time of that terrible disaster.   Soon after that disaster, Union Carbide sold it's operations in the Kanawha Valley to a French company, now in the process of also closing down operations there due to environmental regulations and public concern. There is significant public debate now about the number of jobs that will be lost when the storage facility completely shuts down, vs concern about the number of people who will find themselves unemploed in the near future.

FMC and Monsanto are long gone. IE Dupont remains, though a much diminished presence. Union Carbide may still have some operations in the Valley. I'm uncertain about that. Thousands of jobs in the Kanawha Valley have been lost over the past 35 years. Not gone, but moved overseas where people desparately need work and where environmental laws are virtually non-existent.

Cost-shifting, in every sense of the word.

I venture to guess the major industry in West Virginia now is health care. As the coal mines became more mechanized, the chemical industry moved overseas,, and the timber all got cut, the demographics of the state shifted and WV now has a much higher than national average percentage of population over 65. Hell, I've been gone 26 years - as tax dollars dried up, a social worker like me had to move on to keep working. I am still well plugged into friends and family in WV, and also pay some attention to economic and census data and the trends they reflect. My nephew, about to finish up his medical residency on Long Island, is the only person I have heard from in a very long time who is moving back - landed a job in the Kanawha Valley with no problem and as already bought a house in Charleston. Non eof his friends, none of the children of my old friends, or their grandchildren are staying or returning.

Good for the local and regional environment. Bad for the economy of WV and for the culture there.

It is a big world, at least from some perspectives. In terms of regional and national environment, West Virginia's economic and cultural losses represent a regional and national environmental gain. If one comprehends how small this globe is, however, there are no winners. Some other countries on the other side of the globe, (i.e. many families and individuals who previously barely managed subsistence living,) benefit in the short term, but will pay the same, or perhaps an even dearer price as their environment becomes increasingly toxic. Other very third world countries are already reaping the short term economic benefits and the long term detriments of a toxic environment from the reality of environmental protections that exist in first world countries but not other places.

In otherwords, at this point in time, I don't see any net gain globally.

Where ever one lives, whatever one's perspective, there are choices to be made that will have profound effects around the globe.

Pardon my eyeglazing ramblings.

Janie


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 08:51 PM

Janie,

Well done.

gnu,
It was me.

Here's a link to get started.

Mingo County WV

Zoom in on the gray areas.

Watch a county disappear before your very eyes.

Russ (Permanent GUEST and WV expat)


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 04:09 AM

Janie, while "beautiful" cannot describe what you wrote, it most certainly was beautifully written........and above all, it is truth. What has sustained so many has destroyed so much.................


Spaw


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 09:50 AM

Corporate greed=oil and gas companies, mine owners, Tea Partiers who want to deregulate a government who really protects us, union busters, crooked politicians,
a Pentagon who sucks up taxpayer money......................

these are all directly or indirectly responsible for blowing up the tops of mountains and putting people below at risk.

Garrett Hardin, the etho-biologist and environmental professor from Santa Barbara
put it this way..............aphorism......................

"You can't just do one thing."


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 04:20 PM

forwarded message:

Subject: Save Blair Mountain from dirty coal companies
Dear Friend,


Historic Blair Mountain, the site of one of the largest labor uprisings in U.S. history, in 1921, is under assault by the coal industry.

Coal companies want to use explosives to destroy Blair Mountain through a process called mountaintop removal mining -- the most destructive form of coal mining there is.

West Virginia Governor Earl Ray Tomblin has the power to save Blair Mountain, but so far has refused to use it.

Tell West Virginia Governor Earl Ray Tomblin: Save Blair Mountain from dirty coal companies.

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/save_blair_mtn/?r_by=51716-3290185-JlIqTOx&rc=paste1


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Subject: RE: King Coal Dumping on Jean Ritchie and ALL OF US!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Dec 12 - 05:46 PM

Recent reports indicate that the main coal company in this particular case has announced that it will cease all mountain top removal mining in that area.

It would appear that additional petitioning in the case would be redundant, although resuming, preferably with new petitions, might be needed if the company fails to follow through as promised.

While the announcements made reference to "environmental issues" and made other attempts at claims they were responding to "public concerns," the simple fact, and likely the most important consideration in the mining company's decision, is that falling coal prices have made it unprofitable to operate mines of the kind.

New natural gas availabilities have made it much more economical than coal, and resulting shutdowns of coal fired generating plants needing maintenance and updates have made conversions or replacements with gas fired generation more profitable, so the demand for coal is evaporating.

So instead of more mountaintop removal mining, we'll have the much cleaner(???) fracking for natural gas, ... but mostly elsewhere.

Status updates based on something more reliable than chain letters are still of value, to be sure that the intended changes are implemented, but the expectation would be that the "forward" immediately above will still be arriving for at least the next ???? years.

John


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