Help with picking patterns and TAB etc

Subject: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: GUEST,Matt Kavanah
Date: 10 May 07 - 03:45 PM

Achairde,

I'm a budding Irish rebel balladeer. Can anyone please recommend any books or online materials for help with learning different guitar picking patterns and/or how to read TAB? Any picking patterns specifically for Irish rebel tunes would be fantastic.

Thanks a million folks,

Matt Kavanah
Boston, MA

Keep the spirit of freedom alive...

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 10 May 07 - 04:42 PM

"I'm a budding Irish rebel balladeer." What are you rebelling against? Haven't you heard that peace has broken out? Many in the US who supported Irish terrorism became too ashamed to do so after 9/11 for, I hope, obvious reasons. Maybe you haven't heard. Maybe you should be reading books about peace-making rather than guitar playing.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: GUEST,Matt Kavanah
Date: 10 May 07 - 04:57 PM

Peace? There are many who call a spade a spade and call it Ulsterisation and Normalisation. A devolved assembly is not the same thing as a broken connection with England and reunification and sovereignty for Ireland. I wouldn't know anything about Irish "terrorism".

So, any suggestions about picking patterns or reading TAB for when I play the Fields of Athenry...?

:-)

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 May 07 - 05:49 PM

Ian cookieless: You know not of what you speak. The man asked for some musical advice. Your Political opinion will always be well received below the line.
Matt: I'm sure there's lots of willing help here. If some are put off by your choice of music, maybe resubmit as "John Smith" in a week or so, minus the embellishments.
Some will want to know if your using finger picks & how many. Picking chords? That sort of thing.
Hope this was helpful.
Cheers!
Jim.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Peace
Date: 10 May 07 - 09:06 PM

There have been many threads addressing finger picking styles. They should be helpful. As to tabs, I believe they have been addressed before in a few threads.

Rebel songs are by their very nature political. So remarks as to that even on a music thread are not beyond the pale I don't think. And Ian has made many many contributions to Mudcat, so don't presume to be telling him he should get off this thread and go to the BS section. He has as much right to be here as anyone else.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Anglo
Date: 10 May 07 - 09:32 PM

It seems to me that many of us, of many nationalities, sing some of the (particularly historical) Irish rebel songs iin sympathy with the downtrodden wherever they be. There are some songs I won't sing and some I do. I consider myself a singer of folksongs, however, rather than someone with a political axe to grind.

And I taught myself to play guitar. Looking back, I would have learned a lot more efficiently if I had managed to find a teacher. Matt, I recommend taking a couple of lessons. Then you'll understand the stuff that's in the books. Go to somewhere that specializes in acoustic instruments. One that comes to mind in your area is the Music Emporium in Lexington, but you might well be able to find somewhere close to where you live.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:03 AM

Peace, Peace, Peace: Take another look at what I wrote. I was trying to prevent the type of discussion which you so dearly love by explaining things, in a non offensive manner to both of them.
Now, do you have the hots for me or is it merely by coincidence that you find yourself constantly picking holes in whatever I say!!

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Tunesmith
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:34 AM

Of course, a lot of rebel songs are just plain great songs, and back in the 60s thet were sung to death in the UK folkclubs. Then "the troubles" started, and they disappeared. Now, I'm an atheist, but love a lot of hymns/gospel songs.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Grab
Date: 11 May 07 - 07:53 AM

I learnt guitar from the Russ Shipton series of guitar tutor books. They're very folk-centric, although more "folk" as in 1960s stuff than "folk" as in traditional. Still, the same techiques will work as well for one as for the other.

A devolved assembly is not the same thing as a broken connection with England and reunification and sovereignty for Ireland. I wouldn't know anything about Irish "terrorism".

If you don't know, I suggest learning. Certainly remember what the English did before the foundation of the Irish state. But then also remember what the Irish did to each other during the civil war. And then remember that the only reason the British army went into NI in the 1960s was to protect Catholics from Protestants in the mass riots of the day. And then remember the British army turning on the Catholics, and Bloody Sunday. And then remember the IRA bombing campaigns that murdered all those innocent people, including attacks on purely civilian places like pubs and shopping centres. And remember Jean McConville. And remember the British army collusion that allowed the attempted assassination of the McAliskeys. And remember Arndale. And remember Gibraltar. And remember Omagh.

By all means, remember the past. But remember *all* of it. Otherwise you're keeping the spirit of repression and arbitrary violence alive, not the spirit of freedom...

Graham.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Peace
Date: 11 May 07 - 09:31 AM

"Now, do you have the hots for me or is it merely by coincidence that you find yourself constantly picking holes in whatever I say!! "

I neither like nor dislike you. But on occasion you take a supercilious tone and that I don't care for. You are--as I am--just another guy here. You want to dish it out and leave it at that. No way, pal.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 May 07 - 10:28 AM

The tone that you hear is within your own imagination. Now, bugger off! I'm spoken for & am not currently reviewing my options.
Americans telling others not to fight for freedom? That doesn't strike you as being a little ironic?

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: GUEST,Jim
Date: 11 May 07 - 11:28 AM

A good generic picking book is The Folksingers' Guitar Guide put out by Oak in the sixties.
Also, check out some of the materials at www.homespun.com . I'm not sure what an "Irish Rebel Balladeer" is, but John Doyle has a good Irish guitar DVD on Homespun.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 May 07 - 11:29 AM

Irish rebel songs are pretty similar to every other folksong.

Hang around other musicians of any political persuasion, and they will help you sort out how to play guitar. there are lots of instructional dvds nowadays - or you could employ a real folksinger to teach you.

actually do the lot, one of thems bound to work.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 May 07 - 02:45 PM

There have been many threads on "beginning folk guitar" and "fingerpicking right-hand technique," etc., etc., but none (to my knowledge) specifically on applying fingerpicking techniques to Irish rebel songs.

I am surrupticiously surfing Mudcat at work, and so don't have the time or inclination to dig out up some of my old posts where I compiled links to multiple threads on the above topics. I'll try to find them and add them to this thread later or over the weekend.

Oak Publications, as mentioned above, is a great source for fingerpicking instruction, as are Stephen Grossman and Happy Traum's Homespun Tapes. All of these outfits started out with print-only materials back in the 1960s, but later evolved to offer audio tapes and then videos, always with complementary booklets. I realize that many people seem to be "tablature-challenged," but when you have a video to look at along with a booklet of tabs, you really should be able to start understanding the basic concept. (It's not rocket science!)

A live in-person teacher is always a great idea, but not everyone has access to the right teacher for their particular interests, and not everyone can pay for enough lessons to make much of a difference. Learning how to learn from the books and tapes/disks can be extremely helpful.

Most of the fingerpicking guides I know about tend to be centered upon American folk genres, specifically country blues and (for the more advanced) ragtime, but once you learn a bit of the technique, you can apply it to any and every genre of song.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 11 May 07 - 02:52 PM

Grab, thank you for your wise post. Jim Lad, you know neither me nor anything about me, so please do not tell me that I know not of what I speak. I know only too well the results of people locked in a simplified and imagined past. That goes for both sides in the conflict. The past is past. Nothing can ever change that. The present and future is to be made. Two sides, implacably opposed, seeking mutually contradictory objectives, can never bring peace. Especially not when their main activity is violence and battle cries and vilifying anyone other than themselves. Only a laying down of those much-loved objectives in order to see human beings, flesh and blood like you and me, and seek compromise in the here and now, not seek revenge for past wrongs, can bring any kind of peace. That is not surrender. That is deciding to live. With 'no surrender', no one wins. 'An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind.'

You may, of course, disagree. You are free to do that without me threatening to knee-cap you, drive you out of your home, or bomb your loved ones. That is the difference between implacable ideology and, please God, current and future reality.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:04 PM

You know nothing!

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:06 PM

When I have the time, I'll start a BS thread where you can challenge my opinions as much as you wish. Until then, I really do have some things to do. Sorry.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:16 PM

Jim Lad, it would really be a waste of your time, as it is obvious that your mind is made up regardless. You *can* say I know nothing, of course. That only displays your view, not facts or real life experiences. I wonder what actual experience you have of conflict zones, of peace-making, of seeing the bereaved lose loved ones for no reason other than being on 'the wrong side'? For me, my opinions and your opinions matter not one jot in comparison to the experience of those whose lives may, in future, be lived without fear. They matter more than any opinion or hardened ideology.

I know nothing? As I said in a previous post, you know nothing about me.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 May 07 - 03:21 PM

Then you clearly know nothing of me and it is fitting that it should remain that way.
So, no offence taken regarding your well intentioned prods at someone whom you thought to be no more than a distant observer of a most tragic set of circumstances.

Subject: RE: Help with picking patterns and TAB etc
From: Grab
Date: 11 May 07 - 04:52 PM

Thanks for the kind words, Ian.

Matt, sorry this has devolved into the politics, but it's a bit of a touchy subject. Like asking for songs with a Black Panther theme of "don't trust Whitey", know what I mean? You want to do that kind of material, that's fine - but if you're going to cross that river, you'd better know enough to be able to tell a solid log from a crocodile before you step on it for support. :-/

Graham.