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BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film

DigiTrad:
BACK HOME IN DERRY
JOE MCDONNEL
THE WOMAN CRIED
THERE WERE ROSES
YOUR DAUGHTERS AND YOUR SONS


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Gulliver 21 May 08 - 03:25 PM
Big Al Whittle 21 May 08 - 03:37 PM
Keith A of Hertford 22 May 08 - 03:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 22 May 08 - 04:30 AM
Stu 22 May 08 - 04:33 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 May 08 - 05:54 AM
Stu 22 May 08 - 06:17 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 May 08 - 06:30 AM
Keith A of Hertford 22 May 08 - 06:39 AM
GUEST,AlanA 22 May 08 - 12:53 PM
Big Al Whittle 22 May 08 - 02:22 PM
Teribus 23 May 08 - 01:14 AM
quokka 23 May 08 - 02:44 AM
Stu 23 May 08 - 03:01 AM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 08:51 AM
Big Al Whittle 23 May 08 - 09:00 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 May 08 - 09:19 AM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 09:28 AM
Big Al Whittle 23 May 08 - 09:53 AM
Stu 23 May 08 - 10:04 AM
Big Al Whittle 23 May 08 - 10:12 AM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 10:14 AM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 10:17 AM
Keith A of Hertford 23 May 08 - 10:21 AM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 10:28 AM
Stu 23 May 08 - 10:34 AM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 10:35 AM
Stu 23 May 08 - 10:37 AM
Stu 23 May 08 - 10:41 AM
Teribus 23 May 08 - 10:44 AM
Jean(eanjay) 23 May 08 - 10:59 AM
GUEST 23 May 08 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Keith A o Hertford 23 May 08 - 12:02 PM
Stu 23 May 08 - 12:46 PM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 01:47 PM
Teribus 23 May 08 - 02:29 PM
Big Mick 23 May 08 - 10:48 PM
Teribus 24 May 08 - 03:26 AM
Big Al Whittle 24 May 08 - 05:00 AM
Teribus 24 May 08 - 06:44 PM
Big Al Whittle 24 May 08 - 07:52 PM
Den 25 May 08 - 01:12 AM
GUEST,Ram 25 May 08 - 02:55 AM
Teribus 25 May 08 - 07:17 AM
Teribus 25 May 08 - 07:23 AM
goatfell 25 May 08 - 11:10 AM
goatfell 25 May 08 - 11:14 AM
RobbieWilson 25 May 08 - 03:36 PM
Big Mick 25 May 08 - 03:46 PM
Big Al Whittle 25 May 08 - 06:11 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Gulliver
Date: 21 May 08 - 03:25 PM

From today's Irish Times:

It was announced in Cannes yesterday that Pathe Distribution had won the distribution rights for Ireland and the UK for this film. Pathe enjoyed huge success on the Irish market with Ken Loach's The Wind That Shakes The Barley, which won the Palme d'Or at Cannes two years ago.

Given the positive critical reaction to the film at Cannes, it has been sold to a number of distributors in other countries in the past two days, including Australia, New Zealand, Greece, Portugal, etc.

A number of companies are competing to to acquire the US rights--a US deal is anticipated later this week.

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 08 - 03:37 PM

its very weird how important films never get to the multiplexes.

its all very well all those other countries getting the film, this is one of the main countries where it really affected everybody and has resonance. In fact, if you count NI as part of the UK - it is THE country where it all happened.

I wouldn't give a stuff if it were just this one film - but lots of important films don't get to the only cinemas that are accessible for the disabled, and aren't in some inaccessible part of a city where no one has found a parking spot for decades.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:43 AM

Stigweard, there was a ban on certain voices but no censorship of the words spoken or written
There was no censorship.
As I said,the Republican publications, An Phloblacht and Republican News were published and were freely available in the North(they had more problems publishing in the South) even though they were used as a mouthpiece by PIRA, and for PIRA Army Council announcements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:30 AM

Well it was censorship of a sort. Adams and McGuinness never had to come on Panorama and be interviewed by Paxman - like every other political leader. And Paxman has faced down bigger assholes. (Thatcher for starters.....)

I suppose what it saved us from was a load of self justifying bluster and bollocks - which might have been hard to take if your kids were in a box or had their arms and legs blown off, cos of them. But on the whole that cack handed attempt at suppression afforded them more relief than it did us.

Looking back such censorship as there was, really did them a terrific favour.

You might quibble about the terms Keith, but there was a quite definite attempt at suppression of an point of view that was uncongenial to the establishment, and many of us felt uncomfortable about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:33 AM

"Stigweard, there was a ban on certain voices but no censorship of the words spoken or written"

It's censorship of a sort Keith, albeit a clumsy and misguided attempt to further alienate a large part of the community of the North by silencing the people who spoke for many of them.

censorship |ˈsensərˌ sh ip|
noun
the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts : details of the visit were subject to military censorship.


In this case, the voice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 08 - 05:54 AM

OK guys, but I was responding to these untruths

to a nation where there was no press censorship (USA) from a nation where press censorship was enforced at the point of a gun (UK)- several press photographers were shot at by the British army - warning shots over their heads,


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 22 May 08 - 06:17 AM

"McGuinness never had to come on Panorama and be interviewed by Paxman - like every other political leader"

Good cross-post WLD - great minds think alike (or fools never differ).

I think McGuinness was interviewed by Paxman once (but it might have been Jon Snow), and Paxman gave him a right drubbing. McGuinness was struggling to answer the usual accusations and came across as an inarticulate goon, but then I get the impression he never was the brains in the organisation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 08 - 06:30 AM

Here is a list of British TV programmes about the troubles form
1968 to 1978.
There are many interviews with IRA officers.
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/media/tv10yrs.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 May 08 - 06:39 AM

"One of the most remarkable aspects of the documentary is the amount of access you had with the IRA. We're behind IRA guns, at private meetings, witnessing a training session in bomb-building, inside the Maze prison, watching an FBI videotape of a sting involving IRA arms buyers. Have viewers in Britain or the U.S. ever seen this detail before?

No, never. I made a documentary inside the Maze prison in 1990, which was the first time people had seen IRA members talk the way they really did, and without their masks on. Most of the people on "Behind the Mask" had never been interviewed before. The Republican movement was, to say the least, a little nervous they would say something they shouldn't. But in fact what they did was absolutely straight. Which is the great strength of the series."
http://www.salon.com/news/1997/10/21news.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,AlanA
Date: 22 May 08 - 12:53 PM

Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams are now both declared millionaires through the sales of their autobiographies and property investment. M.McG is now the deputy first minister in the Ulster government. Some goons !


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 08 - 02:22 PM

Don't believe all you read. Before the Dawn, the Adams autobiography (not a bad read actually) was in the remaindered bin in Words next to my line dance record, almost the week it came out.

If he's become a millionaire, it wasn't financed by his book in the remaindered bin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 08 - 01:14 AM

With their obvious connections could the money made by Adams and McGuinness through property investment be construed as having been obtained due to insider dealing or knowledge?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: quokka
Date: 23 May 08 - 02:44 AM

Christy Moore's song 'Section 31', written by his brother Barry, is about the "piece of legislation which prohibits Sinn Fein's elected representatives from putting forward their views on radio and TV."
From the Christy Moore Songbook, p. 105.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 08 - 03:01 AM

"With their obvious connections could the money made by Adams and McGuinness through property investment be construed as having been obtained due to insider dealing or knowledge?"

If it did, they'd be right at home in the company of most other politicians, who virtually all use their position to their own ends.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 08:51 AM

You louts show your prejudices very clearly. You have turned a thread on Bobby Sands into a litter box for you to spout about whether McGuinness and Adams made money or not, which as best I can tell has nothing to do with the subject. Despite your lame attempts to appear as though you are just engaging in fair discussion, your biases just shine through.

Did you bother to see the movie? I think I will just start a thread with the title of, "Slag Adams and McGuinness, and other Irish Republicans, here......". That should keep you children happy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:00 AM

I think that was the point we were discussing - the fact that its not all that easy to get to see the movie.

As for Irish Republicans. Most of us here (even Keith and Teribus) would like to see all of Ireland a republic.

The real difference between us is that your cities haven't been on the receiving end of the bombs and (in one of the worse periods of unemployment ever) your children weren't taking jobs as soldiers policing the province and getting killed.

It tends to temper ones idolatry of these characters.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:19 AM

Just so, Weelittlelout.
Keithlout.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:28 AM

Al, what has that got to do with how much money McGuinness and Adams make? Discussions of the bombing campaign have happened here many times. Discussions of whether Sands was a hero, a terrorist, or something in between, go on with regularity.

As to whether our cities being on the receiving end of bombs, I suggest you take a look at the last 40 years, culminating with 9/11/2001 and rethink your position. As to your children taking jobs as soldiers "policing" the province, as best as I can tell they chose to do so. My answer to that is the same as my answer to my own government's actions in Iraq. Get out. You act as though there were no choice. Don't join the military if you don't want to do such a thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:53 AM

Easily said Mick, trouble is a lot of these English kids taking soldiers jobs weren't all that bright.

As for Americans in Iraq, I thought when they interviwed them before the last election - they seemed decent well motivated people. I had a lot of respect for them. They had doubts about what they were f doing - but the ones I heard from believesd they were doing someting good for the countries theyw ere serving in.

A number of them wrote to me when one of my songs ended up on a Pentagon website - I've heard all the terrible stories, but the guys who wrote me and their parents were the very soul of decency and dignity.

As for the personal fortunes of Mart and Gerry, well could you blame them. I think Churchill did okay out of world war 2.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:04 AM

"That should keep you children happy"

"As to your children taking jobs as soldiers "policing" the province, as best as I can tell they chose to do so. My answer to that is the same as my answer to my own government's actions in Iraq. Get out. You act as though there were no choice. Don't join the military if you don't want to do such a thing."

Dickhead. You've got no idea about my political standpoint on this subject (though you might if you got off your fat arse and bothered to take a look back through some of the previous threads ). There have been people who knew what they were talking about in this context who used to post on this site - I wish they were here now.

"You louts show your prejudices very clearly"

Yeah? Well you don't have the wit to understand them then. Don't tar everyone with the same brush - over here it's considered part of our freedoms to look into and comment upon our politicians incomes, actions and behaviours regardless of their political creed. Believe me, I am a very long way from Keith's and Teribus' political standpoint but your two-dimensional view of them is a fundamental mistake in understanding where they are coming from.

I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, and think Ken Loach speaks for an increasing number of people in this country who have grown up with nothing but propaganda and lies to help them form an opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:12 AM

Stig, don't call our friend dickhead! Not nice!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:14 AM

stigweard, I certainly hope we meet one day. My comments were directed at those, in general, who hijacked the thread. If the shoe fits, put that sucker on. No one specific. So, I hope we meet one day.

As to Teribus' and Keith's viewpoint, I get them very well, and have been a part of these discussions since about 1998. I commented on the narrow bit with regard to them turning the thread away from it's subject to their own ends. It gets tiring.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:17 AM

Actually, Al, I started it with the use of the term "lout". Unfair on my part. I just got pissed off for a minute. Sorry about that.

But I do hope we meet one day, stiggie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:21 AM

Big Mick
The main role of the British Army from the 60s to the end of the Century was to defend Nato's Eastern flank against the armoured might of the Soviet armies..
Alongside their US comrades.
That is what our young men joined the army to do.
No one wanted that nonsense in NI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:28 AM

Keith, the British Army's role in the effort to contain, and eventually cause the downfall, of Soviet expansionism is well known and appreciated. I served, during my time in the military, with British armed forces, and became very good friends with a number of them, even though their beer wasn't very good...(ducking here). Many of the Brit's here have altered, to a degree, my thoughts on The Troubles. But they have not shifted one tenet of my own views. The Brit's need to be out of the North of Ireland. You folks continually point out that the people don't support the continued troops in the North, yet they are still there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:34 AM

"But I do hope we meet one day, stiggie.

Er, is a threat implied in that statement Mick?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:35 AM

Take it in whatever way makes sense to you, stiggie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:37 AM

Nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:41 AM

"Stig, don't call our friend dickhead! Not nice!"

Yeah, that was wrong and I instantly regretted it, but since he's started getting a tad aggressive and threatening I don't feel too much like apologising to him. I do however, unreservedly apologise to everyone else for my outburst against Mick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:44 AM

"I suggest you take a look at the last 40 years, culminating with 9/11/2001" - Big Mick.

Yes absolutley, let's do that:

"Historical Background
Office of the Historian
Bureau of Public Affairs


Terrorist Incidents on US mainland, 1961-2003: A Brief Chronology

Incident 1:
Domestic Terrorism, January 27, 1975: Puerto Rican nationalists bombed a Wall Street bar, killing four and injuring 60.

Incident 2:
Domestic Terrorism, January 29, 1975: The Weathermen Underground claims responsibility for an explosion in a bathroom at the U.S. Department of State in Washington no casualties.

Incident 3:
World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.

Incident 4:
Domestic Terrorism, bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, April 19, 1995: Right-wing extremists Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols destroyed the Federal Building in Oklahoma City with a massive truck bomb that killed 166 and injured hundreds more in what was up to then the largest terrorist attack on American soil.

Incident 5:
Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."

Incident 6:
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001: Two hijacked airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. The attacks killed 3,025 U.S. citizens and other nationals. President Bush and Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect and that they considered the United States in a state of war with international terrorism. In the aftermath of the attacks, the United States formed the Global Coalition Against Terrorism.

Incident 7:
Anthrax Attacks, October-November 2001: On October 7 the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that investigators had detected evidence that the deadly anthrax bacterium was present in the building where a Florida man who died of anthrax on October 5 had worked. Discovery of a second anthrax case triggered a major investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The two anthrax cases were the first to appear in the United States in 25 years. Anthrax subsequently appeared in mail received by television networks in New York and by the offices in Washington of Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and other members of Congress. Attorney General John Ashcroft said in a briefing on October 16, "When people send anthrax through the mail to hurt people and invoke terror, it's a terrorist act."

Office of the Historian
Bureau of Public Affairs
U.S. Department of State
March 2004"

Well 42 years turned up 7 incidents:

- 4 involve bombs.
- 1 is a shooting incident in which the gunman kills himself.
- 1 is an incident where civilian aircraft are used as missiles and deliberately crashed into their intended targets.
- 1 is an attempted biological attack.

No Big Mick, your cities and civilian population have not been through the wringer as have the citizens of Derry; Belfast; Dublin; London; Madrid; Barcelona, etc, etc, the list is amazingly long.

One of the tiny, minute edges of silver that shone through the dark cloud that covered the USA in the immediate aftermath of 11th September, 2001 was the assessment by the President of the United States and his Administration of the threat of terrorism. "You are either with us, or against us in our fight against terrorism" is basically what he said. Meanwhile, taking a look at what his words meant, someone in that Administration called Richard Haas, clearly told the Provisional IRA and the armed Republican movement - "Go out of business, and go out of business now, or else you will find yourself with the US as your enemy." - And lo and behold! Disarmament and decommissioning came about. Now that in itself is no great deal, the IRA could rearm tomorrow if it wanted to. It won't though, because there can be no resumption of "The Struggle", there can be no resurrection of "The Troubles", because if the Republicans opt for violence they know that they will automatically go on a list in Washington as would the names of their supporters courtesy of "Homeland Security" and the Patriot Act.

As to what happens in Northern Ireland? That, quite rightly, is solely a matter for the people of Northern Ireland and no-one else.

By the bye, can't wait for the films dealing with the "disappeared", particularly Mrs Jean McConville and Captain Robert Nairac. The latter is currently topical as someone has just been arrested and charged as either an accessory or accomplice in his death, the two others sought under similar charges are currently living in the USA and their extradition has been applied for I believe, six others were previously caught, tried and sentenced.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:59 AM

standing ovation

Apparently the film got a standing ovation when it was screened in Cannes, although from some of the write ups I understand that for some people it was a difficult film to watch because they were watching the last few weeks in the life of someone starving to death.

I will be one of the people who will find it difficult to watch, but I am determined to see it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 08 - 12:01 PM

Mick,
"You folks continually point out that the people don't support the continued troops in the North, yet they are still there. "
There are no troops on the streets, fields or hills of NI.
They were sent to control the violence.
They pulled out when it stopped.
Britain will leave the North the moment a majority of the people of the North vote for it to happen.
That day can not come soon enough for us.
Off line for a week now.
You have heard it all before from me anyway.
Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford
Date: 23 May 08 - 12:02 PM

That was me.
Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Stu
Date: 23 May 08 - 12:46 PM

"No Big Mick, your cities and civilian population have not been through the wringer as have the citizens of Derry; Belfast; Dublin; London; Madrid; Barcelona, etc, etc, the list is amazingly long."

So 9/11 wasn't putting NY and it's population through the ringer then?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 01:47 PM

I feel compelled to tell you all that I went out to the barn and did some good, hard, sweat inducing, work. I think best when I do this. The product of that was to find that I needed to come back and apologize for the tenor of my message. While my opinion hasn't changed much in terms of the hijack of the thread, I did come off as a bullying oaf. Didn't mean to do that, I just get pissed off and then fly off sometimes, and I usually wish I didn't do that. Who says with age comes wisdom?......***chuckle***.

I would also like to point out that Stigweard sent me a PM(that I discovered when I came back to write this) indicating that his positions remain solid, but seeking conciliation. That is the mark of a gentleman, and more than I deserve given that I flew off the handle. Good man, Stigweard.

Carry on,

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 23 May 08 - 02:29 PM

"As to whether our cities being on the receiving end of bombs, I suggest you take a look at the last 40 years, culminating with 9/11/2001 and rethink your position." - Big Mick

So I did as Big Mick suggested, which resulted in me stating the following:

"No Big Mick, your cities and civilian population have not been through the wringer as have the citizens of Derry; Belfast; Dublin; London; Madrid; Barcelona, etc, etc, the list is amazingly long."

Your response Stigweard:

"So 9/11 wasn't putting NY and it's population through the ringer then?"

Put through the wringer in the same way that civilian population of say Belfast were, Stigweard? - Nothing remotely like. 9/11 was a terrorist "spectacular", a one-off, the people of Belfast had to live with the expectation of that sort of thing every single day for 18 years - It must have been somewhat wearing to say the least.

By the bye Big Mick gave a period of 40 years culminating in the attacks of 11th September, 2001. Significant in that there have been no other successful attacks since that date, how about giving those responsible for that three cheers? Or at least a muted "Thank You".


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 May 08 - 10:48 PM

What an arrogant man you are, Teribus. You have no idea what I have done and continue to do on the issue of homeland security. Or even my views on it.

Pitiful man, you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 24 May 08 - 03:26 AM

What your views on Homeland Security and the Global War on terrorism are, are of no importance whatsoever Big Mick. The view that does count is the adopted party line of the US Government. The threat that they will weigh-in against any resumption of violence by terrorists in Northern Ireland serves as deterrent enough to the Republican cause and the "plastic paddies" than funded the bombs from the safety of their homes and bars in the US. If you want to apply the term pitiful to anyone apply it to them, they and their actions were below contempt.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 08 - 05:00 AM

Well for what its worth Teribus I disagree with you on this one. The USA is a huge place with huge borders and its full of ingenious people. The authorities would be about as successful at keeping funds and weapons in there, as they are at keeping drugs out.

I suspect there always was some sort of attempt to stop the activities of terrorists. Remember Ghadaffi was in the terrorist loop in those days, and the Yank authorities were never particular mates with him.

I'm afraid it comes down to the boring old process of getting people to jettison the idea of killing each other. That's why Thatcher with her wind up speeches (inspiring as it was to her followers) was such minus quantity. She was more bleeding trouble than Paisley and Adams put together.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 24 May 08 - 06:44 PM

Well there WLD we must agree to disagree, while Maggie gave Bobbie Sands every opportunity to win slimmer of the year 1985, she did not deliberately cause the deaths of over 3500 people or cause horrific injury to 30,000 more.

While I do not for one minute deny that the man had conviction, I absolutely condemn the cause for which he stood and means by which he sought to achieve its end.

Unlike many on this forum I actually had to clear up the bits and pieces after the so called "Bold IRA". One thing singing about them in your "Boston Bars" another completely when you're wiping blood and guts from the street 3000-odd miles away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 08 - 07:52 PM

Oh come off it Teribus. Maggie had an instinctive grasp of what invective was going to please her blue rinse supporters, and she knew bloody well it would grip the shit of every Irish republican. She was a past master at stirring it.

She set the stage for that hunger strike. It was precisely because she was such a git, that Sinn Fein was able to reverse its fortunes so rapidly.

You can say the guy who came up with Der Sturmer never killed a jew. But it got him a hangman's rope at Nuremberg.

When you whip up feelings of anger for political gain like she did - you bear some responsibility.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 25 May 08 - 01:12 AM

Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves

Britain never never never shall be slaves

unless of course you come from west Belfast,

Derry, South Armagh or South Down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,Ram
Date: 25 May 08 - 02:55 AM

Teribus cleared blood off the streets of Ulster ?

This whole Action Man story Teribus is becoming ridiculous. First your a sailor, then your a Marine, then you were an interrogator in some special unit, then you served up nosh, now your on the streets of Ulster removing dead bodies ?

Sorry lad, I think you have been reading too many "Dan Dare" comics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 25 May 08 - 07:17 AM

Well Guest Mushroom of 3 posts, lets take a look at what you find so ridiculous:

"Action Man story Teribus is becoming ridiculous. First your a sailor, then your a Marine, then you were an interrogator in some special unit, then you served up nosh, now your on the streets of Ulster removing dead bodies ?"

Take it bit by bit shall we?

The Royal Marines ARE part of the Royal Navy - Does that clear up any confusion over "First your a sailor, then your a Marine,"

When have I ever said that I was - "an interrogator in some special unit" Guest Ram - I'll save you a little time and effort - Never.

"then you served up nosh" - Eh No I think that you will find that it was one of your one post Guest Mushrooms that came up with that one, probably yourself.

Did forces serving in Ulster clean up after IRA, INLA Bombs, yes they did.

So lets see how ridiculous that looks shall we:

"Action Man story Teribus is becoming ridiculous. Served in Northern Ireland attached to Royal Marines and had experience of clean up operations in the aftermath of terrorist bomb attacks."

I can think of about 30-odd thousand British Servicemen who could vouch for that not being in the slightest bit ridiculous.

Now toddle off and think up what you're going to call yourself next time you post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 25 May 08 - 07:23 AM

Oh almost forgot:

Den its -

"Rule Britannia, Britannia rule the waves

Britons never never never shall be slaves"

The song was an invocation under the threat of Viking attack for a musical piece set around the time of Alfred the Great I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:10 AM

what was Bobby Sands phone number?

ate nothing, ate nothing ate nothing


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 25 May 08 - 11:14 AM

I am against Terrorists and I don't care which side they 'fight' for terroists all murderers no mtter which side they are on it doesn't matter if they pulled the trigger or placed the bomb or not they are just guilty as the next terrorists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 25 May 08 - 03:36 PM

Surely the whole importance of the film is Arran's last post. It's more comfortable to slag off "them" as bastards if we only look at what we want to see; stories of "us" as the good guys.

We are constantly subjected to stories of the courage of the heroes of our armed forces who sign up to obey without question and face a risk of being killed or injured, yet feel free to deny the courage of people who act in the almost certain knowledge that they will die.

We still send our armed forces to foreign lands convinced they are the forces of righteousness while the bastards who blow themselves up in the land they come from are "terrorists". Villages, weddings, women and children are unfortunate, collateral damage, or deserve what they get for supporting "terrorists"

We still support torture, detention without trial, use of "inellegence" obtained by torture to convict absolutely innocent people and are quick to demonise anyone who questions these as an apologist for murder and indiscriminate terror.

I think we still have a lot to learn and we can only learn by looking back at our experience.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 May 08 - 03:46 PM

Robbie Wilson, that is the wisest post in the string. We suffer with the same types of problems in the States.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 08 - 06:11 PM

Well I don't see a welter of stories and films supporting our troops.

In fact I can't think of a single artist of any significance, who faces up to the fact that the freedoms of our liberal democracies were incredibly hard won, and have had to to fight like hell for their survival.

We have film directors like Neil Jordan deifying Michael Collins - yeh like Devalera would have allowed a film like The Crying Game to be shown. Transexuals! Any kind of sexuals hardly got a look in when the Republic came into being that Collins killed all those people to achieve.

In a way of course you're right. If Crossmaglen had been in Libya, the USAF would have bombed it flat. None of us like the violence and nastiness under our nose.

But someone has to take down people like Saddam Hussein nd Adolf Hitler.   And its never a game of cricket. War is a moral vacuum, you do what you have to, to win.


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