Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's

Subject: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 11:49 AM

This song was written by Otto Kelland in 1947.
He died fairly recently at the age of 99.
How do I go about getting permission to record this one?

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From:
Date: 24 May 07 - 12:23 PM

Jim, try contacting his estate, or one of your friends in Newfoundland who might know the family.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 24 May 07 - 12:23 PM

Well, I don't know much about Canadian law,...hell, I don't know much about Canada, for that matter; however, I have by a cd by a GREAT
Canadian band from Newfoundland known as the Irish Descendants and on their album, "Best Of" they indicate that it is a, "BMI Canada, Ltd." song. You might start there, or, simply Google the song or the author and then who knows what kind of information you'll come up with or what interesting roads you may go down. Have fun, and, pick up an Irish Descendants disc while you're at it. Cheers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 12:57 PM

Texas Guest: I lent that album to a Newfoundland Band about six months ago. I don't know how you ended up with it but please return it to me. Thank you!
Grin!
I'll follow that lead though. I had thought of it but with the disc loaned out, I didn't have the information at my fingertips.
Coincidentally, the singer I loaned it to is a friend of Darcy's from The Irish Descendants.
Cheers
Jim

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Beer
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:06 PM

Jim.
Great song and a good one for you to do. Hope it works out. My niece's husband of Hungarian decent played this number on the violin (fiddle) for her as she walked down the isle at their wedding. A wonderful tune done on violin as well.
Beer (adrien)

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: gnu
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:13 PM

The Irish Descendants........ they are good! They WERE even better before the scrap. Their "Cape Saint Mary's" is one of the best I have ever heard.

Anyone who is not familiar with their work should give them a listen. Except for that damn "Rattlin' Bog"! No matter who sings it, if I ever hear that song again, it'll be too soon. Hehehe... one night in the bar on the Marine Atlantic Vessel Caribou, a lad shouted out "Rattlin' Bog" between songs about four times. Finally, after politely waving him off each time, Con pointed at him and bellowed, "One more time and I'll rattle your bog, me zon!" He didn't shout it again. (Con is not a small lad!)

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:20 PM

Schooner Fare also recorded it. Try contacting them via www.outergreen.com; they might have info on the copyright holder.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:32 PM

Gnu: Your submission is so accurate, I could have written it myself. Someone should have explained the anatomy of a tree before they recorded it. Their Cape St. Mary's however, is a benchmark.
Not much luck with the encyclopedia, I'll try Rapaire's suggestion next.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:32 PM

Gordon Bok too. He may be helpful.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,Texas Guest
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:46 PM

gnu - what are you referring to when you write about "the scrap?"
I don't often follow the inner workings of bands but when stuff falls into my lap, why, curiosity often follows. Can you clue me in?

Also, Jim Lad, I've been trying for several years to get the folks who run the North Texas Irish Festival to get the Irish Descendants down here. Suffice to say that I'm well connected with NTIF but they have always said the ID's are a good band but they also seem to come up with a hundred reasons why the ID's can't come down. Please get a note to Darcy (through the friend) that Texas awaits their arrival.
They would go over so well down here. To illucidate - for two years
I performed regularly at the most popular Irish pub in town and played their cd, "Best Of" on my breaks and I always had folks come up and ask me who they were and where they could get the cd. The Irish Descendants would make quite a splash at NTIF. Cheers.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 01:46 PM

Yeah. I'm due to write him but I not to ask for help.
www.outergreen.com; makes no mention of copy rights. (In true Newfoundland fashion)
Anyone maybe know the answer?

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 02:11 PM

Found it. Copyrights belong to Jocelyn Kelland.
I'm going in.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From:
Date: 24 May 07 - 02:18 PM

Great! Like I expected, the family (estate) would be the most likely to be able to help.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:03 PM

Thanks George: I've sent the request. I wanted to avoid copyrights but how can you seriously do Newfoundland music and overlook this gem.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 03:09 PM

"the scrap?"
They had a bit of a "Barney" on stage I believe, which led to Darcy quitting and getting the "Fables" going.
Family thing, I suppose.
You're on your own with the recruiting, I'm afraid.
My friend is his friend, that's all. No connection here.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 24 May 07 - 07:40 PM

There is a tantalising suggestion from meself in this Jim Lad thread that "Cape St. Mary's" is derived from a cowboy song. Can anyone comment further? I can imagine a lyric something like:

Take me back to my western hills
Let me ride the open prairie
Where the coyotes wail and the goshawks sail
With my friends the Sioux and Pawnee
Let me ride the open prairie

or whatever . . .

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: robomatic
Date: 24 May 07 - 08:03 PM

It's also sung by Gordon Bok on one of his albums from the 70's.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 May 07 - 08:04 PM

I believe that Gordon Bok did the first recording after Kelland's. If you have trouble getting the information, you might ask him.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,JGP
Date: 24 May 07 - 08:10 PM

You are absolutely right..the song was actually taken from a very old western movie. I watched a show about it...but dont ask me the name of the old movie...i just know if you research..u will find the info because it is out there..the lyrics are original..but the tune comes from the song in that old movie. Hope this helps

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 08:19 PM

Gene Autry....1947? I'll have a look later but I wouldn't take that to the Newfie club if I was you!

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 08:52 PM

"Take me back to my western hills" Doesn't show up on an exact phrase search. I'm finding "Take me back to my boots and saddles" a lot & plenty of folks wanting to sell me albums but no lyrics.
Anyone?

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 24 May 07 - 09:31 PM

...I keep hearing the lyric being sung in my head by Stan Rogers!?

Tha album called "For The Family" maybe?

Art

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 10:03 PM

Thanks, Art: That part doesn't matter any more since I've found the right person.
As for the other song; It just occurred to me that there is yet another "Where did Bob Dylan's Song Originate?" thread on the go and in light of that & other similar situations, that really doesn't matter either.
Thanks for your help, all of yous!
Jim.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 24 May 07 - 10:13 PM

Yes - it was on that album. And a fine rendition indeed.

I suppose I'm the one that made that "tantalising suggestion" regarding the melody on the other thread. Since then, I read some precise information regarding the "singing cowboy" antecedent - but be-damned if I can remember where ... I think it may have been on yet another thread here - SOMEwhere ...

By the way, I once heard Otto Kelland on CBC radio giving a detailed account of his composition of the melody - it certainly sounded like he BELIEVED he had made it up ...

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From:
Date: 24 May 07 - 10:19 PM

You're welcome, Jim. Always glad to hear someone is recording this song. One of Newfoundland's gems. - Any chance you might consider doing another "Newfoundland" song, Sweet Forget Me Not. Actually, it's from Ohio originally, but it remains a favourite in Newfoundland. They even taught it to Irish musicians who fell in love with it and now enjoys popularity there.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 24 May 07 - 10:25 PM

Sweet Forget Me Not. Actually: I always thought that was Country & Western (but still music), you know, the kind they listen to in Scotland and Ireland, the old style so it doesn't surprise me that Newfoundlanders would like it too.
I have a wee list in my head and that's not on it but I'm wondering if you've ever heard the Eskimo Lullaby or Inuit Lullaby.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Vinland
Date: 25 May 07 - 04:33 PM

'Cape St Mary's' appears to be inspired by ' The Hills of Wyoming', which was recorded by Gene Audrey. You can listen to him sing a fragment of the song at: http://www.geneautry.com/musicmovies/musiccds/25westernclassics.html   The songs seem similar but no more so than so many blues or pop songs sound like others. I believe Barbara Allen was the melodic ancester of both songs. Mr Kelland's lyrics are quite well written and show his deep affection for the place.

Incidentally, Cape St Mary's is an amazing place to see; it has a huge rock just offshore which has become a bird sanctuary. Thousands of gannets and other sea birds nest there.   Well worth a visit if you're in the province.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 25 May 07 - 04:59 PM

It's hard to draw any conclusions from that sample; it's so short. On the one hand, I figure it MUST be the one I once heard on the radio; on the other hand, I seem to remember being struck not by the mere similarity of the tunes, but by their being the SAME tune, but from this (insufficient) sample, it does seem that there may be considerable difference between this one and that of Cape St. Mary's ...

Now, Vinland, did you previously post some information about this on another thread, or was that someone else somewhere else?

Here's your clicky.

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 25 May 07 - 05:21 PM

I thought that was you who posted it, Meself!
It really doesn't matter. The song's stands up, all on its own.
Hope you had a fine time in Amerikay.
Cheers!
Jim.
p.s. Still waiting for a reply on this one. (Re royalties)

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 25 May 07 - 05:32 PM

Well, I DID post the initial observation/suggestion - but I had no real information ... subsequently, I read some info. somewhere ...

(Great time in Amerikay. Highly recommended. Five stars.)

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From:
Date: 25 May 07 - 06:36 PM

Jim, I haven't. I did look them titles up and will check out my findings. Found a Midi of Barry Taylor's. Will look for some words too.

Subject: ADD: The Hills of Old Wyoming
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 May 07 - 02:51 AM

Yeah, I suppose you could call it the same tune, but there are a lot of differences. Here are the lyrics from the 1936 Sons of the Pioneers recording.

THE HILLS OF OLD WYOMING
From the film "Palm Springs" (1936)
(Leo Robin / Ralph Rainger)

Smith Ballew (Film Soundtrack) - 1936
Frances Langford (Film Soundtrack) - 1936

Let me ride on the trail in the hills of old Wyomin'
Where the coyotes wail in the gloamin'
For it's there that my heart's at home

In the night let me rest with the blue sky for my ceilin'
'Til the wind's lullaby comes stealin'
From the hills where my heart's at home

Wake with a song! Wake with the sun!
Saddle to mend, cattle to tend, Plenty to be done

Let me live on the range where a man has room to roam in
And to dream of his love in the gloamin'
In the hills of old Wyomin'

In the hills of old Wyomin'

Transcribed from the Sons of the Pioneers recording, with help from lyrics posted at lyricsplayground.com

---

chords here (click) (watch for popups)

This is another pretty "Sons of Pioneers" tune about hills (My last submission was the "Everlasting Hills of Oklahoma"). This time the state is Wyoming. This song was written by two songwriters who had never been to Wyoming, written at Palm Springs for the motion picture "Palm Springs" starring Bing Crosby.
Leo Robin & Ralph Rainger wrote this song in 1936.

Hills of Old Wyomin'

............G....D7...G............Em.....A7............D7
Let me ride on a trail in the hills of Old Wyomin'
.................G .........................C.....Cm
Where the Coyotes wail in the gloamin'
...........G........................C...........G
For it's there where my hearts at home

Em C G
(Hum or whistle)

.........G....D7......G....
In the night let me rest,
..............Em... A7...........D7
with the blue sky for my ceilin'
....D7....G.... .........C............Cm
'Till the winds lullaby comes stealin'
G .................................C..........G
From the hills where my hearts at home

Em C G
(hum or whistle)

...G .................................................
Wake with a song, Wake with the sun.
.............................................
Saddle to mend. Cattle to tend.
.................... A7
Plenty to be done.


............G....D7.....G...................Em........A7........ D7
Let me live on the range where a man has room to roam in
G........................................C.....Cm
And dream of his love in the gloamin'
G..................C....... G..........................C..........G
In the hills of old Wyomin', In the hills of old Wyomin'

(back to top)

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Jim Lad
Date: 26 May 07 - 05:31 AM

George: That's fine. I had found Barry's midi and went looking for the song. Just wondered if anyone was aware of it. It's very short and I know I've read it before. It's got me thinking though that I might go looking for some First Nations lullabies.
Note to all you Maritimers. I asked twice at the market for salt cod and they didn't have it but they got some in and are selling it by the slab! Codfish hash on Monday, methinks.
Any songs out there about "Jigs Dinner" or "Dinner" as I like to call it? (Not Aunt Martha's Sheep, Please!)

Joe: That's a very nice piece and it doesn't hurt the other song at all. What fascinates me most though is the progression of the English language in America. I doubt that many would even know what the "Gloamin'" is let alone, put it in context.
I spent a fair bit of time at my Granny's when I was a lad & we listened to a fair number of radio shows "The Shadow" for example. I've done a fair bit of long distance driving, with the music, and found myself listening to those shows all over again. Even allowing for the "Big Radio Voice" of the day, there is a marked difference between mid twentieth century, American English & the way Americans
speak today. You're evolving!

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 26 May 07 - 10:39 AM

Nice going, Joe.
I notice in the Gene Autry samples linked to above, the song Take Me Back To My Boots And My Saddle contains the lines "Let me ride the old Bar X/With my buddies Slim and Tex" which sure puts a feller in mind of "My friends the Browns and Clarys".

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 26 May 07 - 11:15 AM

And if I'm not mistaken, Slim's last name WAS Brown, and Tex's last name was Clary. And Otto Kelland's "old Cape Anne" was named the "Barbara X".

(Okay, I'll get back to work).

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 08:57 PM

Here are the lyrics we have in the Digital Tradition. Any corrections?

CAPE ST.MARY'S

Take me back to my western boat
Let me fish off Cape St. Mary's
Where the hog-down sail
And the Fog horns wail
With my friends the Browns and the Clearys
Let me fish off Cape St. Mary's

Let me feel my dory lift
To the broad Atlantic combers
Where the tide rip swirls
And the wild ducks whirl
And old Neptune calls the numbers.
'Neath the wild Atlantic combers

Let me sail up Golden Bay
With my oilskins all a-streaming
From the thunder squalls when I hauled my trawls.
And my old Cape Ann a-gleaming
With my oilskins all a-streaming.

And let me view that ragged shore
With the beaches all a-glisten
With the caplin spawn
Where from dusk till dawn
You bait your trawn, and you listen
To the undertow a-hissin'.

And when I reach that last big shoal
Where the groundswells break asunder,
Where the wild sands roll to the surge's toll
Let me be a man and take it
When my dory fails to make it.

Oh take me back to that snug green cove
Where the seas roll up their thunder
There let me rest
In the Earth's cool breast
Where the stars shine out their wonder
And the seas roll up their thunder.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Written by Otto P. Kelland, Quality Music, Inc., PROC.
Recorded by Stan Rogers in 1982 on For the Family, Folk
Traditions, R002.
@sailor @Canada
filename[ CAPSTMAR
TUNE FILE: CAPSTMAR
CLICK TO PLAY
DC

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: meself
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 09:29 PM

LET ME FISH OFF CAPE ST. MARY'S

where the hagdowns sail

where the tide-rips swirl

when I hauled me trawl

... that rugged shore

You bait your trawl

Subject: RE: Origins: Let Me Fish off Cape Saint Mary's
From: meself
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 10:24 PM

The Hills of Old Wyoming

Pretty much the same tune, with a couple of little variations, and a bridge.