Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 01:45 AM

"The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever"?
Compared with Rogers and Hammerstein, imo, they're not even on the map. :)

The Beatles were a phenomenon that resonated mostly in 14 year olds. I was too old by half in 1964 and they lost me with their first five songs. Wham1 Wham! Wham! Wham! A little 4/4 goes a long way, in my estimation.

She loves you, ya,ya,ya. I wanna hold your ha a a nd.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: J-boy
Date: 20 Dec 10 - 12:00 AM

Don't forget the time he defused the Cuban Missile Crisis. A phone call to Kruschev and Kennedy and (Yeah! Yeah! Yeah!) we were all saved.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 11:03 PM

Mozart and Beethoven are only just two of the greatest composers in all history who freely admit
that Paul McCartney was their most inspirational influence.

If it had not been for Paul McCartney they would never have even considered careers in music.

Paul McCartney will be recognized for furthering human culture, science and understanding beyond all that is known
by today's greatest scholars.

Paul McCartney is the only ex Beatle who's name is recorded in scrolls & manuscripts of Ancient Civilizations
for his charitable work and cheery music making.

Paul McCartney is rumoured to be secretly investing his uncountable personal wealth
in the philanthropic advancement of the sciences of Eternal Youth and Time Travel.

"Yesterday all my troubles seem so far away" Paul McCartney is quoted as cheekily quipping in Naval journals
documenting a Charitable Lunch with Lord Nelson on the eve of the Battle of Trafalgar.

Further reports regarding the true intentions of Paul McCartney and his experimental travels back in time
are slowly filtering out from insiders working in the Paul McCartney secret underground installation
3 miles beneath the Mull of Kintyre.

At this moment in time popular music history still reveals that Paul McCartney recorded "Mary Had a Little Lamb"
and it was still released 12 May 1972.

Paul McCartney continues his unending crusade to ensure all that is beneficial for Peace on Earth for Mankind.
Paul McCartney we salute you sir !!!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: J-boy
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 10:12 PM

Dude, the Beatles definitely were the greatest rock band ever but you're starting to scare me!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: alanabit
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:09 AM

OK...They weren't rubbish after all!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Brakn
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:56 AM

Is that it then?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:04 AM

NME.COM
HOME
NME News


Bob Dylan talks of Beatles friendship

Legend admits: 'I'm in awe of McCartney'

May 16, 2007

Bob Dylan has spoken in depth about his longstanding friendship with The Beatles and his particular bond with George Harrison.


Talking to Rolling Stone magazine, Dylan talked freely about Harrison's struggle to find his voice within the songwriting collective of John Lennon and Paul McCartney.


"George got stuck with being the Beatle that had to fight to get songs on records because of Lennon and McCartney. Well, who wouldn't get stuck?" he asked.


Dylan highlighted the writing talents of Harrison, saying: "If George had had his own group and was writing his own songs back then, he'd have been probably just as big as anybody."


Speaking against popular belief, the singer also denounced any rumours of competitiveness towards Lennon and McCartney, asserting, "They were fantastic singers. Lennon, to this day, it's hard to find a better singer than Lennon was, or than McCartney was and still is."


Nodding his cap to McCartney in particular, Dylan concluded: "I'm in awe of McCartney. He's about the only one that I am in awe of. He can do it all. And he's never let up... He's just so damn effortless.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:03 AM

As The Rolling Stone Album Guide said,not liking The Beatles is as perverse as not liking the sun. And Ozzy Osbourne said not loving The Beatles is like not loving oxogen. And a guy who runs Keno's Classic Rock n Roll    Site and who runs a Rolling Stones and John Lennon fan site   says in his review of The Beatles 1967-1970 Red Album damn The Beatles were one great group and he said in his great review of The Beatles 1962-1966 Red album, that   if you don't   love   or at least like The Beatles and their music then you are not   a true rock fan   and more than likely will never ever get it.


He also says that John Lennon showed on Paul's rocker Get Back why he should have played lead guitar more often because he did such a good job of it. He also said he played a pretty good slide guitar on George's For Your Blue and he said John also played one of the first and best acid guitar parts on his great rocker Revolution.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,John,Paul & George's Early Solo Work Was Ver
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 04:00 AM

There is a lot of good support for how very good Paul's early to mid 70's solo/Wings music was.And John Lennon's first true solo album,John Lennon Plastic Ono Band is brilliant,he had just finished Primal Scream Therapy with psychologist DR.Arthur Janov where he deal with the traumas he had in his childhood and teens that he repressed for over 20 years,and he made a brilliant album out of his pain and anger!


His Imagine album is also very good,and both of these albums have gotten critical acclaim,I love his 1974 Walls and Bridges album too,and his song Number 9 Dream is really beautiful,it's one of his best solo songs,with his typical beautiful voice and great singing,beautiful music and beautiful melodies and harmonies.Post 1975,he retired and devoted himself as a caring hpouse husband to raise his second son Sean for 5 years,and then his songs on his last albums Double Fantasy and then the Milk and Honey album realsed after his tragic insane,incomprehensible murder,were also very good,especially Watching The Wheels,Beautiful Boy written for his little boy Sean,I'm Losing You is a great slow rocker,Starting Over is good,Woman is really pretty,and Nobody Told Me is a great modern sounding rocker too.


George Harrison's album All Things Must Pass has long been highly acclaimed also.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,THe Beatles Are The Greatest Rock Band Ever!
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:57 AM

And the remarkable thing was that John and Paul *did* compose creative,brilliant,rocking,and beautiful music *without* being able to read music. I don't think Beethoven,and Mozart knew how to read music either.


John inherited his intelligence and music talent from his intelligent and musically talented mother Julia who sang and played the banjo pretty well at a time when it was unusual for women to do that and she taught John how to play and encouraged him to be a musician and bought him his first guitar.John's paternal grandfather was also a singer in a band.


Paul McCartney's father James McCartney was naturally musically talented and a self taught classical jazz pianist(from the time he was a teenager)and the leader of his own band,Jim Mac's band and they were popular in clubs in the 1920's.He also wrote an instrumental song,Walking In The Park With Eloise that Paul and Wings recorded in 1974 and they included on their 1976 Wings At The Speed Of Sound album.His father wasn't a poet,he was *musically* talented and Paul inherited his father's natural musical talent to the genuis extreme! Paul can and did write many very good songs with very good lyrics,but he often didn't write great lyrics, but he doesn't have to,because even when he did,it was his *music* that was what was so great about his songs.He's like the Beethoven or Mozart of rock.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Kampervan
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:55 AM

Am I correct in assuming that you're a fan then?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:54 AM

The Beatles Revolver album came out in the summer of 1966 and the first song they recorded on it Tomorrow Never Knows which many consider to be one of the first true psychedelic songs,was recorded in April 1966 and The Doors and Velvet Underground's first albums didn't come out until 1967 so it's very obvious and clear who was more influenced by who. And The Beatles recorded Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields in late 1966 and A Day In The Life was recorded in January 1967 for Sgt.Pepper.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:53 AM

Some months back I read an online article that had an interview with Ernie Isley of The Isley Brothers about a recent tribute to Jimi Hendrix,in which he says that Jimi played for The Isley Brothers & lived with them & that they & he were fans of The Fab Four from the moment they all watched them on The Ed Sullivan Show in February 1964. I always thought that Jimi was only a later period Beatles fan,I knew he played Sgt.Pepper live the weekend it came out,& he played Day Tripper live also,& several people on different message boards said that when he was asked where the direction of music was going,he said ask The Beatles.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:51 AM

Pete Townsend along with John Bonham, John Paul Jones and David Gilmore played on 2 songs on the last Wings album Back To The Egg that came out in 1979 . They also all played with Paul and Wings in the last Wings concerts in December 1979.


Pete also along with Phil Collins who is also a big Beatles fan since he was 13 in the concert scene in the Beatles film A Hard Day's Night, played on Paul's 1986 album Press To Play.


And I have found about 100 former Beatles haters on different message boards who are now big Beatles fans,many call them   The Greatest Rock Band Ever and most say they now think they were brilliant song writers. I didn't communicate with these people, but they said in their posts that they hadn't even heard most of their songs and albums,and had inaccurate misperceptions   of them like the   ridiculous one that they ever were a "boy band." Which besides knowing   even most   of their music and   knowing their history knows is totally false.

Last year a musician posted on some message board   about the new John Lennon biography, and he said watch The Beatles Anthology   video series and learn how truly immensely talented   this band was.


Most people don't hate The
Beatles in the first place and people don't usually go from hating a band to loving   them, so it just goes to show how great and timeless their music really is/was!


I once found a post a few years ago of a 35 year old musician in Jamaica who said on his blog that when he was younger and a big Who fan he used to think The Beatles were overrated, but that he did a 300 degree turn around and he said he now truly believes that The Beatles were the greatest rock band   ever.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:49 AM

Bob Dylan ,Roger McGuinn of The Byrds and music   critic   William Mann of   The London Times   as early as 1963 and 1964 pointed out   that even in early Beatles    songs like She Loves You and   I   Want To Hold Your Hand   had unusual and   interesting chords and they arranged them.


And as early as late 1963   a   music critic Richard Buckle   in The London Times   called John and Paul the two   of   the most   briliant composers since Beethoven   after John and Paul composed the music   for   a ballet Mods and Rockers.

And John and Paul wrote one of The Rolling Stones first hits, I Wanna Be Your Man in   late 1963 right in front of them. And Keith Richards and Mick Jagger were impressed and said wow,how can you write a song just like that and it inspired them to start writing their own songs.


John Lennon and Paul McCartney were such amazingly talented singer song writers that they were already writing hit songs for other artists as early as 1963 when their own song writing success was getting off the ground,besides The Rolling Stones,they also wrote hit songs in 1963 for Billy J.Krammer and The Dakatos,Celia Black,and Peter and Gordon etc.


Paul wrote his first song at age 14 and was playing guitar,John wrote heavy deep poetry but didn't start writing songs until he met Paul and was impressed that he wrote his own songs,and he too started to write his own songs at age 17,and they wrote together and never stopped from then on.Paul wrote the very pretty song I'll Follow The Sun at only 16!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:47 AM

George Harrison did *not* start playing a ukulele,he didn't start to play it until he was in his 40's!


George Harrison at only age 14 would stay up playing his *guitar* until he got all of the chords exactly right and his fingers were bleeding! And One of The Beatles engineers Geoff Emerick says that in early 1966 when The Beatles were recording John's song I'm Only Sleeping, George Harrison played backwards guitar the most difficult way possible even though he could have taken an easy way,and it took him 6 hours just to do the guitar overdubs! He then made it doubly difficult by adding even more distorted gitars and Geoff says this was all George's idea and that he did all of the playing!


The 1992 Rolling Stone Album Guide calls Paul a remarkable bass player and rightfully calls John & Paul the 2 greatest song writers in rock history! Both Phil Collins and Max Weinberg both Beatles fans and both praise Ringo's drumming and Phil Collins says that Ringo's great drumming on A Day In The Life can't be repeated even by him! Also on Rankopedia The Beatles are # 1 Greatest Rock Band,# 1 Greatest Most Innovative Rock Band,John &Paul are # 1 Greatest Rock Song Writers, John & Paul are on The Greatest Rock Male Vocalist list, and Paul McCartney is # 2 after John Enwistle as Greatest Rock Bass Players, John Paul Jones is # 6, and Bill Wynman is # 20! And on Digitaldreamdoor where many musicians post,The Beatles are # 1 Greatest Rock Artists,John &Paul are # 1 Greatest Rock Song Writers, they are both on The Greatest Rock Male Vocalists list, and Paul McCartney is # 8 out of 100 Greatest Rock Bass Players, John Paul Jones is # 21, and Bill Wynman is # 95! George Harrison is # 30 On The Greatest Rock Guitarists out of over 100.


Also check out Keno's Classic Rock n Roll Site he also runs a Rolling Stones &John Lennon fan site. And he made a Top 10 List and voted and the fans voted. He voted John &Paul # 2 after Bob Dylan as Greatest Rock Song Writers, the fans voted them # 1! He voted Paul McCartney # 2 after John Entwistle as Greatest Rock Bass Player, the fans voted Paul # 3. He voted John Lennon # 2 after Keith Richards as Greatest Rock Rhythm Guitarist, and the fans voted John in a tie with Jimi Hendrix and Brian Jones at # 4 .He voted John Lennon # 1 in a tie with Elvis as Greatest Male Rock Vocalist and the fans voted John # 1, he voted Paul # 6 and the fans voted him # 7.






And he and Denny Laine are the only musicians on Paul's great 1973 Band On The Run album, which is critically acclaimed and popular, and he played every instrument by himself again on McCartney 2 in 1979, and most of the instruments on his 1997 Flaming Pie album, and his 2 recent acclaimed popular albums, Chaos And Creation In The Backyard, and Memory Almost Full. And John Paul Jones, David Gilmore, John Bonham & Pete Townsend all played on 2 songs with Paul and Wings on the last Wings album Back To The Egg, in 1979, and they played in the last Wings concert too in December 1979.




As The All Music Guide says in their excellent Beatles biography "That it's difficult to summarize their career without restating cliches that have already been digested by tens of millions of rock fans, to start with the obvious,they were the greatest and most influential act of the rock era and introduced more innovations into popular music than any other rock band of the 20th century."


"Moreover they were among the few artists of *any* discipline that were simultaneously the best at what they did *and* the most popular at what they did." THey also say as singers John Lennon and Paul McCartney were among the best and most expressive in rock.


Also on an excellent site,The Evolution of Rock Bass Playing McCartney Style by Dennnis Alstrand,Stanley Clarke,Sting,Will Lee,Billy Sheehan,George Martin and John Lennon are quoted saying what a great,melodic and influential bass player Paul has always been'


And Wilco's John Stirratt was asked in Bass Player which bass players have had the most impact on his playing and the first thing he said was, Paul McCartney is one of the greatest bass players of all time,if you listen to what he was tracking live in the studio it's unbelievable." "With his tone and musicality he was a huge influence,he covered all of his harmonic responsibilities really well but his baselines were absolutely melodic and inventive."

And in an online 1977 Eric Clapton interview,Eric Clapton In His Own Words he says that there was always this guitar game between John and George,and he said partly because John was a pretty good guitar player himself.He played live with John as a member of John's 1969 Plastic Ono Band.

And there is a great online article by musician and song writer Peter Cross,The Beatles Are The Most Creative Band Of All Time and he says that many musicians besides him recognize Paul as one of the best bass guitar players ever.He too says that John and Paul are the greatest song composers and that to say that John and Paul are among 2 of the greatest singers in rock and roll is to state the obvious,and that John,Paul and George were all excellent guitarists and that George is underrated by people not educated about music but that Eric Clapton knew better,he also says that both John and Paul played great leads as well as innovative rhythm tracks.


John Lennon co-wrote,sang and played guitar on one of David Bowie's first hits Fame in 1975 and David invited John to play guitar on his version of John's beautiful Beatles song Across The Universe.Brain May,Ozzy Osbourne,and Liam Gallagher and many more call The Beatles The Greatest Band Ever.

Many people have said Bob Dylan has never been that good of a guitarist.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:26 AM

Many   people have said about The Rolling Stones ,that their albums have   a few good   or   great   songs   but   the   rest    is   filler.

But a radio host who was a former DJ once said that The Beatles are one of the only if not only bands that almost all of their songs were great including the album tracks that weren't released as singles.


On a message board discussion some years ago about what bands and artists people consider overrated,quite a few said The Rolling Stones and some said The Beatles or both,and a guy said if you ask almost anybody in the music business they will tell you that The Beatles were the Greatest Band Ever!


I once spoke to a rock DJ about The Beatles and even though he said they aren't his favorite,he said nobody can say that The Beatles weren't great,he said especially John Lennon and Paul McCartney as song writers.


And I once spoke to another rock DJ who is a huge Beatles fan & who has hosted a 2 hour Breakfast With The Beatles radio show for over 20 years & I said that The Beatles work in the recording studio described in details in The Beatles Reording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn,is so impressive & brilliant & he said oh it's the work of genuises. I said how can anyone not recognize what extraordinary singer song composers John Lennon & Paul McCartney were? And he said oh you can ask anyone in the music business & they will tell you that.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:25 AM

On Last FM. The Rolling Stones only   had 80 members of their fan group in 2007, The Beatles had over 2,000 which is now over 12,000 and the average age of fans is 22 more guys than girls and they are from all over the world! THe Beatles debuted pretty well on Itunes,as of November 17,28 of the top 100 tunes were by The Beatles they also had 16 of the top 50 albums 40 and a half years after they broke up!



In 2006,2007 and 2008 The Beatles were the # 1 most listened music artists on Last.FM and they are very popular on YouTube and Rate Your Music where many male and female fans in their teens and 20's call them The Greatest Rock Band Ever!


The Beatles are still rightfully regarded by most people,most rock critics,and many other music and rock artists as The   most creative,innovative,and prolific rock band ever! In 1995 25 years after they broke up their Anthology CD's went straight to # 1 around the world and I heard a rock DJ say that 40% of the people buying them were teenagers,the same exact thing when their 1CD came out in 2000 30 years after they broke,up and in 2009,39 years after they broke up,they were the second biggest selling artists in the last decade,and their 1CD was the biggest selling album!



The Beatles   wrote *plenty*   of great rock songs including hard rock   on The White Album and Abbey Road    and   as many have rightfully pointed out   Paul invented heavy metal with his 1968    song Helter Skelter and people have also said John's I Want You She's So Heavy   on Abbey road was also one of the first heavy metal   songs.



Even in their early days they wrote   some great rockers that were   very rocky for the times, as The All Music Guide   said,in their very good review of Past Masters Volume 1   that they proved they could rock really   really hard,with John's I Feel Fine   from late 1964 which featured the   very recorded   feedback guitar on a rock song,and Paul's great blues rocker,She's A Woman   also from late 1964,and what they called the peerless I'm Down   which is Paul's screaming rocker from   mid 1965 which they performed even harder   rocking, and   screaming   in   August 1965   at Shea   Stadium.


Also John's You Can't   Do That from early 1964,is a great rock song, so   is   Day Dripper,Paperback Writer, And You're Bird Can Sing,Oh Darling,Hey Bulldog, She Said She Said,Taxman, Revolution,Get Back,Come Together etc!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:22 AM

And I have been a huge highly impressed Beatles fan(specifically a big John and Paul fan) since I was nine years old and I started to collect their albums then,I got my first Beatles book for my 11th birthday and I had every album by age 13. I was born after 1964 too. And I have always loved all of their music,including their great A Hard Day's Night album. I don't even like other music from 1963 or 1964 and I don't like 1950's oldies music.


I once said to a guy friend's stepfather(my friend liked Frank Zappa and his brother 10 years older than me had a big music collection and he loved The Beatles too)that John Lennon and Paul McCartney)are rightfully widely regarded by most people,most rock and music critics,and many other well known respected rock musicians and artists as 2 of the greatest song writers of the 20th century and he said I think so too.

When I was 11 my music teacher asked us to guess who he was talking about when he said they were genuises and they wrote over 100 songs most of them critically acclaimed and popular in just 8 year recording career,and I guessed totally right when I said,John Lennon and Paul McCartney The Beatles and he smiled and said yes,that's right!

When I was in third grade,a teacher in library class played Abbey Road on a little turn table and she said they were genuises.



My step cousin who was born in 1958 saw Paul & Wings in 1976 & he said it was a great show & he said The Beatles probably were The Greatest Band Ever & my first cousin who was born in 68 (he & his older brother born in 62 who are both lawyers and his oldest brother born in 60, his,parents & sister who was born in early 64 have always been fans) said when I asked him when he was 23 if he still liked them,he said best band that ever was.


He told me that when he was at the British Museum where Lennon & McCartney's song lyrics are in a glass case next to Sahkespeare,Dickens,Wodsworth & Keats everyone was like forget them lets go over to the Lennon & McCartney lyrics.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:21 AM

Not only did TheBeatles give TheRolling Stones one of their first hits with their rock n roll song I Wanna Be Your Man,and they wrote it right in front of them and Keith Richards and Mick Jagger were impressed and like wow how can you write a song just likethat and it motivated them to start writing their own songs.The Rolling Stones were good friends with and fans of The Beatles.


Mick Jagger was at 4 Beatles recording sessions and Keith Richards was at 2 of them with him.Also Mick Jagger was such a big Beatles fan that in May 1967 when The Beatles were redording their song Baby You're A Rich Man he came there and stood on the sidelines to watch and listen to them recording it. His name is also on the tape box and he likely sang at the end verses.


The Beatles remastered albums sold much more 40 years after their break up than The Rolling Stones remastered albums and they are still together! The Beatles have the best selling album of the last decade with their CD 1.



And Brian Jones played the saxaphone on the strange Beatles song, You Know My Name Look Up The Number and he and Mick Jagger's girlfriend at the time Marriane Faithful contributed sound effects on the song Yellow Submarine.


As this guy Sal66 who has also posted on sites debunking ignorant cr*p about The Beatles has rightfully pointed out, The Beatles wrote,played and recorded I Feel Fine (which The All Music Guide says has brilliant,active ,difficult guitar leads and riffs) in the Fall of 1964 which was the first use of feedback guitar on a pop rock record and it also had a prominent guitar riff throughout this very good song almost a year *before*   The Rolling Stones's Satisfaction came out.


And on John's great Norwegian Wood recorded in the Fall of 1965,George Harrison was the first to play a sitar on a pop rock song and it was released on their great album Rubber Soul in December and   then in May 1966 The Rolling Stones song Paint It Black came out with Brian Jones playing a sitar!


And in Paul McCartney's authorized biography Many Years From Now, Mick Jagger's former girlfriend singer Marriane Faithful says that she and Mick used to go over to Paul's house a lot and hang out in his music room. She said he never went to see them at their house they always went to visit him because he was Paul McCartney.She also said that Mick was intimidated by Paul but that Paul was totally oblivious to this.

Paul also says in this book that he turned Mick on to pot in his music room and he said which is funny because a lot of people would assume it was the other way around.




Also Mick Jagger is quoted on a Rolling Stones fan site,timeisonourside.com saying that Keith Richards liked The Beatles because he was quite interested in their chord sequences and he says he also liked their harmonies which he said were always a slight problem for The Rolling Stones.He said Keith always tried to get the harmonies off the ground but they always seemed messy.Mick then says,that what they never really got together were Keith and Brian singing backup vocals
and he said it didn't work because Keith was a better singer and to keep going,oooh,ooh,ooh(he laughs) and he said Brian liked all of those oohs which Keith had to put up with.He also said Keith was capable of much stronger vocals than ooh,ooh,ooh.


On this same fan site Keith Richards is quoted from 1971 saying that The Beatles were perfect for opening doors,when they went to America they left it wide open for them and he said that The Rolling Stones could never have gone to America without them.He also said that The Beatles are so f*****g good at what they did.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:19 AM

The   Beatles   wrote, played and   recorded so many great critically acclaimed, popular songs and albums of   all different styles of   music and   wrote about   50 or   more   years worth of    mostly great   music in   just   an   8   year   recording   career.




When The   Beatles were playing   live   in 63,64, 65& 66 they had very limited   primitive sound systems at the time,only 100   watt amplifiers,(and George Harrison says in the excellent video series,The Beatles Anthology that special 100 watt amplifiers were made for their August 1965 Shea Stadium concetts,and he said they went up from the only 30 watts before!) no   feedback   monitors   so they couldn't even   hear   themselves   play and sing(yet   they   amazingly managed   to sing   and play in sync and   in   tune with each other anyway!) plus all   of   the   screaming   from   the   crowds.


In   their January 1969   live rooftop   concert they sounded   great, the sound systems had improved some by then ,although still pretty primitive compared to   today's, and   there were no screaming crowds   anymore.


When I   was   a   teenager I   met   3   people who saw   The Beatles in concert,   2   saw them   in   1966   and   1   saw   them   in 1964, they   all   told me   they could see and   hear them and   that   they   were   great.



On   the site   Artist Facts   in   The   Rolling Stones   section   a   guy Steve from   Canada   said he saw The   Beatles in concert   in   1966   and The Rolling Stones in 1996(and the sound systems by then were a million tines better!) and   he   said don't get me wrong,The Stones were great but they were no match for The Beatles and he   said The   Beatles   were   The   *GREATEST*   Band ever!


And   former   Kiss   guitarist   Bob   Kulick   who produced   the   heavy metal   tribute Beatles album,Butchering The Beatles, said   he saw The Beatles at Shea Stadium in   1966 and he said   he   only   heard   them   in bits and pieces but   he   could   hear   parts   of    Baby's In   Black   and   Paperback Writer and   he said they sounded amazing.   He also calls them the *GREATEST*   band   ever.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,THe Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:17 AM

The Beatles revolutionized popular and rock music and were very innovative,prolific and creative,more than any other group. And their great timeless songs are the most covered in music history by everyone from jazz musicians,classical,Motown,rock,pop and even heavy metal recording and playing their great timeless music.



Many academic musicologists and music scholars have done serious studies,analyses and praise of their great timeless music,like university of Penn gradutate musicologist Alan W.Pollack who did an extensive 11 year detailed analysis of every Beatles song.He says he hadn't even listened to The Beatles in 20 years until they came out on CD for the first time in 1987.He said The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn was one of the things that motivated him to do his Beatles study.He demonstrates that even though a lot of their lyrics were simple in most of their really early songs,most of their music wasn't and that a lot of their early songs have as many as 9 chords and interesting and unsual arangements.Paul's great rocker,You Never Give Me You're Money on their excellent amazingly modern sounding rock album,Abbey Road has 21 chords.


And university of Michigan music professor and musician Walter Everett who wrote the 2 volume,The Beatles As Musicians:The Quarry Men Through Rubber Soul and The Beatles As Musicians:Revolver Through Anthology.And British musicologist and classical composer and music professor (who is dead now)Willifred Mellers 1973 book,Twilight Of The Gods:The Music Of The Beatles,and he also wrote about Beethoven,Mozart and Bob Dylan.


And award winning music professor Dr.Glen Gass who has been teaching a course on what brilliant composers The Beatles were and a rock music course at Indiana University School Of Music since 1982.Dr.Gary Kendal's Beatles course is the most requested at North Western university ,university of California also has one and Oxford university had a recent Beatles course.



How many serious music scholars and award winning music professors are teaching and writing serious academic works studying and prasing what "brilliant" composers The Rolling Stones or any other rock bands were?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,THE Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:15 AM

George Martin himself said in an online interview I found around 2002 said that he has worked with many different   music artists but that he has never known or worked with anyone as brilliant as The Beatles! And notice how the other music artists he produced,and Ringo didn't make them brilliant singer song writers and didn't have nearly as much critical acclaim,popularity and success as The Beatles did! He also said in Hunter Davies great 1968 authorized Beatles biography,The Beatles that in their music they are always ahead of everyone else and that they have an instinctive ability to know what to do more than other people!


In his biography All You Need Is Ears refutes that he was   the one who had most to do with The Beatles music. He admits most of the ideas came from them.


And if anyone ever reads the excellent book,The Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn which is a very detailed music diary of of every recording session in their amazing only 8 year career, which has interviews with their recording engineers,tape operators,George Martin quotes,and a very good interview with Paul in the beginning,they would see how truly creative,and innovative especially John and Paul were in the recording studio and that most of these great musicial ideas came from them.


George Martin was also once inerviewed on a rock station Beatles program and he said what is clearly obvious and true, (and he said it like he still couldn't belibe it)John Lennon and Paul McCartney were incredibly talented people, they both were extraordinarily talented song composers and great
singers.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,The Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:13 AM

Also, classical composer Leonard Bernstein called John and Paul the greatest composers of the 20th century so did Elton John on a 1991 CBS Morning news show,he was asked who he musically admires and he said you can talk about your Rogers and Hammerstein but for the quanity of quality songs that Lennon and McCartney wrote in that short period of time,he said he thinks they were the greatest song writers of the 20th century.Brian Wilson said this too on a 1995 Nightline Beatles tribute show. The Beatles are in the Vocal Hall of Fame and John and Paul have been in the song writing Hall of Fame since 1987,Keith Richards and Mick Jagger have been in it since 1993,but as of now no members of The Who,or Led Zeppelin(who I totally can't stand even a half of a second of) are in The Song Writing Hall Of Fame or The Vocal Hall Of Fame,The Rolling Stones aren't in The Vocal Hall of Fame either and The Beatles were awarded about 20 prestigious Ivor Nevello awards as great singers and song writers in just a remarkable 8 year recording career,John and Paul won the first one in early 1964!


They also won an Oscar and a Grammy for their film score of their 1970 film Let It Be.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,THE Beatles Were The Greatest Rock Band Ever
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:11 AM

Also in an excellent Beatles book Ticket To Ride by Denny Somach where so many other well known popular respected rock musicians and artists are interviewed about The Beatles praising them including Jimmy Page,Brian Wilson who says he's always loved The Beatles. And Brian Wilson called John & Paul the greatest song writers of the 20th century on a 1995 Nightline Beatles tribute show,(which had on music artists from every type of music,a young black jazz musician,a middle aged black opera singer,Steve Winwood,Meatloaf,and classical violnist Isak Perleman,who said he plays his children Bach,Beethoven Mozart and The Beatles)and he played With A Little Help From My Friends on the piano and he said he just loves this song. He also said that Sgt.Pepper is the greatest album he ever heard and The All Music Guide says in their Beach Boys biography,that Brian had a nerveous breakdown after he heard it. Brian also said that when he first heard The Beatles brilliant 1965 folk rock album Rubber Soul he was blown away by it.He said all of the songs flowed together and it was pop music but folk rock at the same time and he couldn't believe they did this so great,this inspired him to make Pet Sounds.



John Lodge and Justin of The Moody Blues are interviewed in this book and Bill Wyman and Ron Wood says how The Rolling Stones became good friends with The Beatles in 1963 after John and Paul wrote 1 of their first hits,the Rock n Roll song,I Wanna Be You're Man.


Ron Wood was asked what his favorite Beatles songs and he said there are so many apart from the obvious like Strawberry Fields I Want To Hold Your Hand is one he said he used to like a lot ,and he said he really loved We Can Work It Out.He also says that The Beatles used to have a radio show every Friday where they played live and spoke and he would never miss an episode. He said infact whoever has the rights to those shows should dig them up,because they are incredible.


Justin Hayward says that the album he always really loved ,and he said it was when they started experimenting with chord structures ,was A Hard Day's Night.He says they began to move away from the standard 3 chord thing and just went into more interesting structures .He said A Hard Day's Night was the album for him and their song If I Fell was the song.He said it started in a different key to how it ended up,and it's a beautifully worked out song and that there are some songs on that album that were very emotinal and evocative. He said that for everybody just starting to write songs as he was,it was a real turn on and eye opener.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,THE BEATLES WERE THE GREATEST ROCK BAND EVER
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 03:08 AM

Sorry, but I have to correct the many totally ignorant inaccurate comments made about The Beatles on here.


As The All Music Guide says in their excellent Beatles biography "That it's difficult to summarize their career without restating cliches that have already been digested by tens of millions of rock fans, to start with the obvious,they were the greatest and most influential act of the rock era and introduced more innovations into popular music than any other rock band of the 20th century."


"Moreover they were among the few artists of *any* discipline that were simultaneously the best at what they did *and* the most popular at what they did." THey also say as singers John Lennon and Paul McCartney were among the best and most expressive in rock.


Also on an excellent site,The Evolution of Rock Bass Playing McCartney Style by Dennnis Alstrand,Stanley Clarke,Sting,Will Lee,Billy Sheehan,George Martin and John Lennon are quoted saying what a great,melodic and influential bass player Paul has always been'


And Wilco's John Stirratt was asked in Bass Player which bass players have had the most impact on his playing and the first thing he said was, Paul McCartney is one of the greatest bass players of all time,if you listen to what he was tracking live in the studio it's unbelievable." "With his tone and musicality he was a huge influence,he covered all of his harmonic responsibilities really well but his baselines were absolutely melodic and inventive."

And in an online 1977 Eric Clapton interview,Eric Clapton In His Own Words he says that there was always this guitar game between John and George,and he said partly because John was a pretty good guitar player himself.He played live with John as a member of John's 1969 Plastic Ono Band.

And there is a great online article by musician and song writer Peter Cross,The Beatles Are The Most Creative Band Of All Time and he says that many musicians besides him recognize Paul as one of the best bass guitar players ever.He too says that John and Paul are the greatest song composers and that to say that John and Paul are among 2 of the greatest singers in rock and roll is to state the obvious,and that John,Paul and George were all excellent guitarists and that George is underrated by people not educated about music but that ERic Clapton knew better,he also says that both John and Paul played great leads as well as innovative rhythm tracks.


John Lennon co-wrote,sang and played guitar on one of David Bowie's first hits Fame in 1975 and David invited John to play guitar on his version of John's beautiful Beatles song Across The Universe.Brain May,Ozzy Osbourne,and Liam Gallagher and many more call The Beatles The Greatest Band Ever.


Also on MusicRadar Tom Petty,Joe Perry and Richie Sambora in What The Beatles Mean To Me all say how cool and great they thought The Beatles were when they first saw them on The Ed Sullivan Show in February 1964 when they were just teen boys,Richie was only 5.Tom Petty said he thought they were really really great.


Robin Zander of Cheap Trick said he's probably one of the biggest Beatles fans on the planet.Brad Whitford of Aerosmith said that a lot of that Beatles influence comes from Steven Tyler's collaborartion with Mark Hudson both whom are absolute Beatles freaks and he said I guess the goal is to try and emulate probably some of the best music of the last 50 years which has to be The Beatles.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 11:38 AM

Thanks for the link, Keith!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: KeithofChester
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 11:29 AM

I enjoyed both the recent BBC Radio 2 shows. I was particulaly looking forward to last night's (now on listen again) because of Oasis performing Within You Without You. Pete Docherty and Carl Barat's take on A Day In the Life was surprisingly very good. Russell Brand's When I'm Sixty Four (in the style of Marilyn Monroe) was just so completely different my jaw dropped. That Lesley Douglas apparently specifically asked Russell to sing a song about losing his hair, getting old and going grey (all his worst nightmares other than not being famous) perhaps confirms that she does have the evil sense of humour that we suspected when she replaced Johnnie Walker with Chris Evans.

Programme Link

A fuller version of When I'm Sixty Four was later played on the Russell Brand Show, about 25 minutes in and also repeated for the benefit of Noel Gallagher about an hour and 45 minutes in. Noel gave him some Simon Cowell-like career advice!

Oasis' Within You Without You was superb. I used to think that CDs were invented to let you programme out that track and the Yoko Ono songs on John Lennon albums. However, I've warmed to WYWY over the years and Oasis have given it an excellent makeover.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 11:24 AM

perhaps if we had a row of dots going from the title to the number of threads

Yup - we're all getting older... I remember when "When I'm 64" was looking forward to some fantastic far-off time. Of course, so can Paul McCartney.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 07 - 08:21 AM

I thought there were five postings to this thread, but there were seventy five .... perhaps if we had a row of dots going from the title to the number of threads ....you could follow it easier.

I like The Beatles by the way.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 11:37 PM

Wow. Wonder what my eight-track tape is worth?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Jun 07 - 11:20 PM

My, oh, my! Look at what the White Album is going for on eBay!.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: alanabit
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:10 AM

Someone is going to start a thread for, "My greatest typos" one day. I should have plenty to contribute...

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 10:51 AM

"he was as god as his word" -

I like that! (Even if I don't agree).

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 10:48 AM

There are a lot of other Beatles fans here. What we are trying to do, is to put their achievement (or lack of it) into perspective.
I am with Lonesome EJ on this one. While Frank is right in saying that The Beatles made children's and teenager music, it is fair enough to point out that they made lots of other music too. John Lennon said he would not be singing "She Loves You" when he was thirty - and he was as god as his word. Within three years, songs like "We Can Work It Out", "Eleanor Rigby" and "Yesterday" had emerged. Even though "If I Fell" is a pop tune, it is melodically and harmonically complex and seamlessly constructed. These were not silly children making lightweight pop music like The Honeybus, or The Tremeloes or bands of that ilk.
I think Soldier Boy's post reminded us of what was so extraordinary about the band. They were musically extremely ambitious. Nobody else had fully grasped the potential of recorded music as opposed to live music. Nobody successfully challenged the boundaries of what recorded music could achieve further or faster than Beatles.
Louis Armstrong was indeed a giant, but he was playing a whole different ball game to The Beatles - and I am sure he knew it.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Beatles Fan.
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 10:34 AM

So much jealously being expressed at the finest album by the finest group the music world ever experienced.

Go back to listening to some miserable folk chant and put your woolly sweater on as it's cold today.

Have your baggy cords got creases in them ?

Right, your full of character now.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dazbo
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 10:18 AM

Listened to it this morning and still think it's bloody good.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Soldier boy
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 09:30 PM

Sorry Mc Grath of Harlow. I was misled by confused information on the media.
However, did you see the programme on BBC2(TV) last night (Sat 2 June) called 'SGT PEPPER - IT WAS 40 YEARS AGO TODAY'.
This programme included the original sound engineers using the original sound deck equipment in the same studio that the beatles used to record this album.
The twist in the tale this time was to use an assortment of contemporary musicians to try to emulate the sounds produced by the beatles 40 years ago.
What struck me was the difficulty they had in reproducing the sounds without all the modern technical gismos to hand and how in awe they were at the musicianship of The Beatles all those years ago.
Even the drummers seemed spellbound when trying to emulate Ringo and admitted he was a difficult act to follow.
The overiding impression from this programme was that the contemporary musicians still had a lot to learn and would continue to learn from The Beatles.
I suspect that this process of learning will continue for generations to come.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM

Frank, I think they wrote and recorded many songs that transcended the teen/pop idiom and stand with anybody's best songs, even (gasp!)Woody's.

ie Yesterday, Eleanor Rigby, A Day in the Life, Fool on the Hill, Blackbird, Something in the Way She Moves. Not earth-shaking revolutionary social commentary certainly, but very incisive comments on the nature of loneliness, love, and transcendence. The fact that they were popular and made piles of money should have no bearing on our judgement of them, and are secondary factors in any discussion of the quality or durability of their music.

Would you also dismiss Roger and the Byrds as a mere teen phenomenon whose work is unworthy of serious consideration?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 01:51 PM

The Beatles appeal to the eternal teen-ager. They are whimsical and fun sometimes.
Great earthshaking influences in music? Nah! Louis Armstrong changed the face of music.
The Fab Four entertained for a while and were diversionary from a Vietnam war.

I am surprised that so many folkies liked 'em that much. I thought they were pop talents and that their music held little lasting appeal for me. They made a lot of money, I'll give them that. They also appeal to the child in all of us.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 01:17 PM

So sit back and chill out tonight (Sat 2nd of June) and switch onto BBC1 at 8.00pm 'cos guess what! the Beeb are running a special celebration programme dedicated to SGT PEPPERS LONELY HEART BAND.

Not quite so - the programme is indeed at 8pm Saturday June 2nd, but it is on BBC Radio 2, part one of two, with the second part on June 16th.

BBC One on TV has much more important stuff to do - "Any Dream Will Do - which of the aspiring musical stars will make it through to next week's final and the chance of a lead role in Andrew Lloyd Webber's Joseph and the Amazing Techicolor Dreamcoat?..."

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 10:00 AM

"I've never understood why people get into this business of making lists and rankings of the best ever and the top 100 and so forth."

Aw shoot, MofH, I was, like, SO going to vote for you as, like, one of my top ten, like, favourite posters on the mudcat (not posters like Peter Max posters. Posters like, you know, Peter T. posters). Now I'm, like, bummed, 'cause you don't like, like, ratings and shit.

OH!!!!

I read in TV Guide that the Beatles were going to be on Ed Sullivan next week! I CAN'T WAIT! Somebody, quick, hold my hand, 'cause I love 'em...

yeah, yeah, yeah

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 08:59 AM

And why exactly do we want to think about that?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Big Phil
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 08:58 AM

Think of the money made by the Fab Four, hundreds of millions, and think if they would give a damn about any of your posts..........

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 07:27 AM

Fond as I am of Dr. Levitin (his book is terrific), I think that his argument is flawed. The Beatles are beneficiaries of a capitalist system that constantly pumps its favoured product (in this case a good product) around the world. Whether the Beatles are what people can instantly recognise 100 years from now is not dependent on the memorability of Beatle music vs. Mozart's 30th, but on whether we are still in the same music delivery system.

On the other hand, "Yellow Submarine" is probably inextinguishable.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:18 PM

Ah, dang, have you "herd" the one about the spell check and the "submit message" button, and how the "aw, shit!" impulse hits just the moment after you hit send and see the syntax typo?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Soldier boy
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 10:15 PM

Getting some really heavy vibes here man!
So sit back and chill out tonight (Sat 2nd of June) and switch onto BBC1 at 8.00pm 'cos guess what! the Beeb are running a special celebration programme dedicated to SGT PEPPERS LONELY HEART BAND.
Enjoy.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Brakn
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 09:38 PM

In my youth club SGT Pepper was played solidly about 18 months. When one side finished it just got turned over. No other record got near the turntable. What did we know?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 09:12 PM

from the Washington Post:

It Was 40 Years Ago Today

By Daniel J. Levitin
Friday, June 1, 2007; Page A15

Yes, it's been 40 years exactly since Sgt. Pepper, having labored the previous 20 years teaching his band to play, arranged for its debut in full psychedelic regalia. He leveraged a little help from his friends, notably the vocalist Billy Shears and a riverboat owner named Lucy who had apparently made her fortune in the diamond business. Pepper realized that good music-making requires the expanding of horizons. A recent "trip" inspired him to incorporate tabla and sitar into the music. The band exhorted us to sit back and let the evening go so that they could turn us on, musically, lyrically, and blow our minds for the next several decades.

It has been 45 years since Mitch Miller, head of A&R (artists and repertory) at Columbia Records, dismissed the Beatles as "the hula hoops of music." Will Beatles songs still be loved when baby boomers are 64? Will they inspire future generations? Or will their music die with those who became intoxicated by their wit and charisma during the mind-expanding '60s?

A hundred years from now, musicologists say, Beatles songs will be so well known that every child will learn them as nursery rhymes, and most people won't know who wrote them. They will have become sufficiently entrenched in popular culture that it will seem as if they've always existed, like "Oh! Susanna," "This Land Is Your Land" and "Frère Jacques."

Great songs seem as though they've always existed, that they weren't written by anyone. Figuring out why some songs and not others stick in our heads, and why we can enjoy certain songs across a lifetime, is the work not just of composers but also of psychologists and neuroscientists. Every culture has its own music, every music its own set of rules. Great songs activate deep-rooted neural networks in our brains that encode the rules and syntax of our culture's music. Through a lifetime of listening, we learn what is essentially a complex calculation of statistical probabilities (instantiated as neural firings) of what chord is likely to follow what chord and how melodies are formed.

Skillful composers play with these expectations, alternately meeting and violating them in interesting ways. In my laboratory, we've found that listening to a familiar song that you like activates the same parts of the brain as eating chocolate, having sex or taking opiates. There really is a sex, drugs and rock-and-roll part of the brain: a network of neural structures including the nucleus accumbens and the amygdala. But no one song does this for everyone, and musical taste is both variable and subjective.

Today the Beatles catalogue is loved cross-culturally -- the product of a six-year burst of creativity unparalleled in modern music. The Beatles incorporated classical elements into rock so seamlessly that it is easy to forget that string quartets and Bach-like countermelodies and bass lines (not to mention plagal cadences) did not always populate pop. Music changed more between 1963 and 1969 than it has in the 37 years since, with the Beatles among the architects of that change.

Paul McCartney may be the closest thing our generation has produced to Franz Schubert -- a master of melody, writing tunes anyone can sing, songs that seem to have been there all along. Most people don't realize that "Ave Maria" and "Serenade" were written by Schubert (or that his "Moment Musical in F" so resembles "Martha My Dear"). McCartney writes with similar universality. His "Yesterday" has been recorded by more musicians than any other song in history. Its stepwise melody is deceptively complex, drawing from outside the diatonic scale so smoothly that anyone can sing it, yet few theorists can agree on exactly what it is that McCartney has done.

The timelessness of such melodies was brought home to me by Les Boréades, a Quebec group that has recorded Beatles music on baroque instruments. The instruments give the sense that you're hearing Bach or Vivaldi, and for moments it's possible to forget that you're listening to Beatles songs. We're so used to hearing Beatles songs that for many of us they no longer hold any surprises. But when they're stripped of their '60s production and the personal and social associations we have with them, you can hear the intricate and beautiful interplay of rhythm, harmony and melody.

On the bus recently the radio played "And I Love Her," and a Portuguese immigrant about my grandmother's age sang along with her eyes closed. How many people can hum even two bars of Beethoven's Fourth Symphony, or Mozart's 30th? I recently played 60 seconds of these to an audience of 700 -- including many professional musicians -- but not one person recognized them. Then I played a fraction of the opening "aah" of "Eleanor Rigby" and the single guitar chord that opens "A Hard Day's Night" -- and virtually everyone shouted the names.

To a neuroscientist, the longevity of the Beatles can be explained by the fact that their music created subtle and rewarding schematic violations of popular musical forms, causing a symphony of neural firings from the cerebellum to the prefrontal cortex, joined by a chorus of the limbic system and an ostinato from the brainstem. To a musician, each hearing showcases nuances not heard before, details of arrangement and intricacy that reveal themselves across hundreds or thousands of performances and listenings. The act we've known for all these years is still in style, guaranteed to raise a smile, one hopes for generations to come. I have to admit, it's getting better all the time.

Daniel J. Levitin, a former record producer, is a professor of psychology and music at McGill University in Montreal and the author of "This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession."

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 05:52 PM

Denying the Beatles' influence on music is an exercize in illogic. I've done an arrangement of "I Want to Hold Your Hand" for folk audiences and they enjoyed it. Well-written songs are well-written songs. Many of the Beatles' songs qualify, big time. And they get discovered by succeeding generations. I have yet to meet anyone who likes nothing they did. They took music from fundamental G Em C D(7) rock to material that on occasion had depth and beauty. Norwegian Wood, Nowhere Man, and some harder rock like Back in the USSR. I didn't ever care for Lennon, 'but oh yeah, the boy could play'. Later tunes from individuals who'd been Beatles were equally good. I think it was McCartney and Wings that did "Mull of Kintyre", and I used to put that on the record player and let it repeat, with the volume at 10.

The idea that people have to like one kind of music to the exclusion of others is a wrong one, IMO. I have no difficulty listening to some songs by various groups, and what became a hit never has anything to do with the decision to like a given song. "Horse With No Name" and "Stairway to Heaven" are two I could do without, but I feel that way about "Danny Boy" too.

Sgt Pepper isn't 'nostalgia' to me. Nor is any music, really. It either still lives or it doesn't. Glenn Miller's "In the Mood" is a good song, old and dated as it is. It still 'rocks'. So does "Donna" and "Patches" and "Chantilly Lace". Johnny Horton's "Whispering Pines" may be one of the most beautiful songs in the world, along with "Maggie". Del Shannon's "Runaway", Toto's "Africa" and "Rosanna", Eddie Schwartz (and Foreigner's) "I Want to Know What Love Is"--well, they are all songs that made it big in one way or another, and IMO they are all good songs. I'd argue that the quality of the "whole song" is as good as most of what has been written in the folk world--different to be sure, but excellent also.

Some albums are pivotal. IMO, SP was one of them. (I don't actually care for it, but that doesn't stop me from seeing how important it was to music in general.)

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 05:20 PM

I wouldn't expect anyone to be discussing my contribution to music in 40 years time! Why should they? And what's that got to do with anything?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 05:05 PM

Wonder who'll be discussing Shimrod's contribution to music in 40 years time?

:D

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 02:03 PM

Good points,PG--I'll keep my eye out for that Shea Stadium DVD--

The Beatles multi-track, multi-layer efforts in Sgt Pepper set the standard for what Rock/Pop was to become--which, essentially, was studio-created music. The live sound of a band stopped being important--going back and listening to older music, up to and including the early Beatles, you have the sense of real bands, with distinctive parts (and yes, I know that it wasn't really a live sound, but it was engineered so you'd percieve it as a live sound)--

Anyway, that's all gone the way of the dodo, and even kids in the garage are now creating music based on what it sounds like in the box, rather than in the room--

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 01:23 PM

In retrospect, I've come to regard the Beatle's earliest efforts as among their best. As a straight rock-n-roll quartet,as instrumtalists, as singers (both lead vocals and harmonies), and as songwriters, they were incredibly powerful.

There is DVD video ~ available only fairly recently ~ of their Shea Stadium concert (first US tour) with enhanced audio that was unavailable for years. I believe it's some kind of remastered "board tape," wherein the screaming audience and the inevitble stadium echo is far in the background and the actual live performance rings out loud and clear. It's just incredibly impressive.

Some kind of copyright or contractual legal BS prevented the public from hearing this audio for many years ~ previous film/video footage featured only a very noisy and unimpressive soundtrack.

The concert footage I'm talking about is part of the multi-DVD boxed set that came out a couple of years back. I think the title is "Beatles Anthology," and the concert in question appears at the very beginning of Disk Four. We own a copy of the set, but don't play the other disks nearly so often as the Shea Stadium concert.

As the group became even more wildly popular, they had to retreat from public performance and became a studio phenomenon. It's to their credit that they took advantage of this development by experimenting with new recording technology, writing in a wider variety of styles, etc. At the time, it was always very interesting to follow their progress, see what they'd do next, etc., and that's the context in which the release of "Sgt. Pepper" came to be such a huge worldwide event.

Also, by the way, apropos of nothing, let's all recall ~ purists and opulists alike ~ that the historical development of a "new" and "serious" pop/rock genre in the late 1960s,, what eventually came to be known as "rock" (as opposed to "rock 'n' roll"), a cultural phenomenon that began in the US independently from the Beatles (but a bandwagon onto which the Beatles gladly jumped) all started from and grew with something called "Folk Rock," deriving directly from the folk-revivial/beatnik subculture and "invented" by folk musicians like Bob Dylan, Jim "Roger" McGuinn, John Sebastian, Jerry Garcia, and many others.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 06:15 AM

I'm celebrating 40 years of being 'pop-free'!

Sgt. Pepper convinced me that pop music was not only crap but had become, with this album, pretentious crap as well. For me it marks the point when pop music was taken over by, what I think of, as 'British Art School Arty-Wankers' - people who should get a proper job and stop patronising, boring and attempting to mystify the rest of us! It's no coincidence that Sgt. P was followed, in a few years, by the biggest pretentious wanker of all - David Bowie!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: cshurtz
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 02:15 AM

Well I discovered the Beatles in the summer of 97 (age 17) For me it was my own summer of love. I also discovered LSD then. Sgt. Pepper was the most beautiful thing in the world when sitting out at my parent's pond and tripping hard. So Pepper has that special and magical place in my life. Even though I'm a converted folkie nowdays, when I think of the best album ever, I still think of Pepper, even though Revolver is probably better. I don't listen to much of the Beatles these days mainly because all their songs are just inside me now

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: M.Ted
Date: 31 May 07 - 11:55 PM

I found Yellow Submarine at Target a couple years back, and popped it in for the little ones, who watched it for days--their favorite song," Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds"--it is peculiar indeed to hear five year olds singing lyrics which once seemed so esoteric-

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 07 - 03:38 PM

Given the continuing (and wholly justified) admiration of then Beatles it is curious that the movie Yellow Submarine is no longer available on either DVD or video except second-hand.

No doubt at some point it'll get re-released with a lot of hype, at an inflated price - but it's not the right way to treat this kind of material.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,EnfieldPete
Date: 31 May 07 - 02:46 PM

That Beatles were Brill!!! I took up music because of them and my taste has evolved into tradional mucic. Not not a bad influence I would say!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 May 07 - 01:39 PM

Actually, (Beatle trivia) George Martin didn't do the string arrangement on "She's Leaving Home" -- Mike Leander did.

I think George is on record somewhere as saying it was overdone -- and I agree!!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 31 May 07 - 11:59 AM

Track list

Side one
"Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band" – 2:04
"With a Little Help from My Friends" – 2:46
"Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" – 3:30
"Getting Better" – 2:49
"Fixing a Hole" – 2:38
"She's Leaving Home" – 3:37
"Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!" – 2:39

Side two
"Within You Without You" (Harrison) – 5:07
"When I'm Sixty-Four" – 2:37
"Lovely Rita" – 2:44
"Good Morning Good Morning" – 2:43
"Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)" – 1:20
"A Day in the Life"

Of these, I would call "A Day in the Life" one of the alltime masterpieces of rock music. Just below this level, and among the best songs the Beatles ever recorded I would include "Lucy", "Mr Kite", "When I''m 64", "Lovely Rita" and "Within You without you". "Sgt Pepper", "Help from my Friends", "Getting Better", and "Fixing a Hole" are merely good songs. "She's Leaving Home" is McCartney succumbing to his sentimental side, but is rendered mostly palatable by a pleasant tune and Martin's string arrangement. "Good Morning" is Lennon succumbing to his cynical side, but is at least interesting. Beatle's Best? Probably not. I favor Revolver or Abbey Road. A great album? Yes it was.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:14 AM

Compared to that latest song (I heard it on the radio this morning) the Sgt Pepper stuff is a highbrow intellectual classical masterpiece!

D.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peter T.
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:10 AM

My objection to Paul's song is that it is a boring piece of crap.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 31 May 07 - 04:14 AM

Sgt Pepper - a concept album with no concept? (Except the first and last tracks).

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Soldier boy
Date: 30 May 07 - 10:13 PM

I have to agree with GUEST,Puck in the earlier lengthy posting.
It was a cornerstone and it rightfully changed musical history.
I their day they were Mega and will continue to be played in decades and decades and decades to come,generation after generation.
So you might as well get used to it.

What has rather pissed me off has been the release of Paul Mc Cartneys' new single and video 'Dance Tonight' that appeared twice tonight on Channel 4.
In my humble opinion it is a cheap commercial attempt to plug into todays very mixed dance culture. It should'nt be successfull but it will be because of all the followers with rose-tinted spectacles who will buy it because they blindly believe that they have to own it to claim it and be part of the name and the brand.
I'm sorry but I find it pathetic. It's a sheep-hearding instinct and I really wish that Paul would retire gracefully with all his millions and not go out as a sad old git!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 07 - 05:40 PM

Well it's not supposed to be photographic realism.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 May 07 - 11:42 AM

I have always thought Guernica was one of the least convincing paintings Picasso ever did.....

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Puck
Date: 30 May 07 - 09:07 AM

To Mcgrath of Harlow
I grew up in rural Wales in a farming society. I can tell you from my experience people of the older generation were threatened and did fail to understand , but more than that had no intention of trying to understand what was happening any more than they were going to allow it to exist.

maybe you came from a more enlightened area
Pee

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 May 07 - 08:29 AM

Aye - Remember Dora Bryan's "All I want for Christmas is a Beatle"?

(Shudder)

D.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 07 - 08:14 AM

"Those of an earlier generation either didn't understand it or felt threatened by it, and young people at that time were not going to give up on it either."

Actually the curious thing about the Beatles was that wasn't quite true. Somehow they managed much of the time to appeal to both without alienating either. Apart from those who found (and continue to find) that in itself a kind of treason.

That's something that Beatles Music has in common with folk music - for those who like it (a minority in the case of folk) its appeal isn't limited to one generation.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Puck
Date: 30 May 07 - 07:58 AM

If it was such a poor album as some suggest why are we still talking about it, and referring to individual tracks from it,and discussing the lyrics in detail? How come it hasn't 'sunk like a stone'.

I can tell you... it was 'cos the times they were 'a'changin' ', and it was happening for the younger generation. Those of an earlier generation either didn't understand it or felt threatened by it, and young people at that time were not going to give up on it either. The balance of power was altering in a very subtle way...it was not the beginning of a musical revolution, that was already underway through Dylan and others. The Beatles, with their popularity, amongst other things, already high, accelerated away in a different dimension using drug induced imagination and lyrics. That singular album started a revolutionary 'revolution' which was unstoppable by those who thought they were in control of society's boring standards at that time.
The Beatles weren't the only ones heading in that direction. Jefferson Airplane and Grace Slick and others were there too. 'White Rabbit' comes back to mind that was the haze of the sixties. The difference the Beatles had, that others on the same journey did not, was that what they did mattered. They were already very popular - hugely conspicuous and in the public eye.

I think the album is a cornerstone...almost everyone in the world has heard it or heard of it and everyone has a view on it,for good or bad...such is it's impact. I loved it and still do and if we could time travel a century or two forwards we will still be talking about the Beatles and their work.

Shame however that things went from bad to worse, to bring us up to the modern day standard of 'pop' noise [I typed out 'music' but deleted it] .

I've just realized what that means ...

With boring ol' Folkie farts like me about we could well be at the dawn of another music revolution, just...'imagine' for a moment what that might be. Certainly the Beatles will have an influence on that too, but I along with so many others won't understand it and will feel threatened by it, if it remains heading in it's current pop chart form. Gladly I am of the firm beleif that Folk in all it's forms is vibrant, slightly hidden from view[therefore underground], and therefore ripe to fill the void and fulfil it's rightful rennaisance.

We are all getting old. However some of the people who have posted to this topic were too old before Sgt. Pepper to embrace it.
The one certain truth is that all music emanates from... GOOD OLD TRADITIONAL FOLK MUSIC.[Whoops..have I started another thread there?!!]

Pee

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 07 - 04:30 AM

Oh and another thing, they always had something for everyone on their albums. Every fan had their own favourite album and tracks. For example I could pass on Octopus's Garden and Ob la di but loved Day in the Life and Helter Skelter. Others were the exact opposite but we were still Beatles fans.

Mind you, with hindsight I agree that Revolver was a better album.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 07 - 04:27 AM

I think a whole generation were dragged forward musically by the Beatles. They were so popular that when the latest album came out, people listened to it again and again until they 'got it'. The Beatles strength was that they progressed beyond the basic rock and roll songs they started writing (although there was nearly always a little twist that made them not so straightforward) by absorbing all sorts of influences.

The posters above that say others were better miss the point. For most young people in the sixties the Beatles were first.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peace
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:49 AM

Amen to that! And the speculations surrounding the 'real meaning' of the cover was like--yeah, what PoppaGator said.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: PoppaGator
Date: 30 May 07 - 12:41 AM

Sgt Pepper may very well not have been the Beatles' greatest musical achievement, but it was a high point as a historical moment.

"You had to be there" to understand why and how it was such a big deal at that particular moment. I was there, but I don't rightly recollect all the details. But trust me, it was significant.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Songster Bob
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:02 PM

As an old fart, I can say, with authority, that nostalgia ain't what it used to was.

Sergeant Pepper was a revolutionary album, concept, accomplishment, but revolutions aren't always the best art (Guernica aside), and there are better Beatles albums, better songs, but nothing that had the impact of this one. I recall it "went gold" before it was issued -- quite an accomplishment in them days, I can tell you.

In any case, that was then and this is now and half the band is gone (3/5 if you count Billy Preston) and there's no more fab four or any such these days.

Yup. Nostalgia just ain't what it was when it was what it was but isn't now. And you can quote me.

Bob

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:20 PM

I didn't really appreciate until I first heard it under the influence of LSD. At that point it made perfect sense as a whole and I felt like I was being let in on a grand private joke.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:53 PM

I've never understood why people get into this business of making lists and rankings of the best ever and the top 100 and so forth.

Good is good, take it as it comes and enjoy. Anyone who didn't/doesn't love the Beatles and enjoy Sergeant Pepper, that's OK by me, it's the way they are. I'm just glad it's not the way I am.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:07 PM

Timeliness..it summed up the mood of its time, in a very appealing way (whimsically, like a lot of UK art), remember, those were more innocent times - I was never a fan, but I can see why it was SO popular; couple of years later, & it wouldn't have worked..(oh, & perhaps Mr Stones fan would care to account for Satanic Majesties?)..

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 07 - 05:15 PM

Bee-dubya-ell, that a good way to put it. It did paint pictures in our minds.

I didn't actually hear it until we bought the cassette and that would have been in 1970, so we were a little behind the times out here.:-) I was all of 17.

Rocky Raccoon is one of my very favs! Can't believe someone doesn't like it!!**bg**

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 29 May 07 - 05:01 PM

Well it is all about nostalgia, isn't it? I was 15 when the album came out and still full of dreams of what the future might hold. The summer of 1967 has almost mystical associations for me and you can tell me that Sgt. Pepper isn't the best album ever until you turn blue in the face and you'll never convince me.
It's not the music, it's the yearning for times past which will never come again.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: RangerSteve
Date: 29 May 07 - 04:18 PM

I had given up on rock & roll, because most of the good performers were dead or not performing. R&R was replaced by Frankie Avalon, Neal Sedaka and other sacharine performers, then the Beatles came along and revived the music, and I give them credit for that, but by then I was into Country music and didn't care to much about R&R anymore. Yaars later, listening to bhe Beatles, I thought that their attempts at Rockabilly were pale imitations of the originals, but otherwise they were not bad. Some of their later stuff left me cold, but there are some songs that stand out, especially anything that George Harrison did. I don't think they gave him enough exposure on the records. I can still remember the words to "Octopuses Garden", "When I'm 64", and "obla Dee, Obla Da", and I find them incredibly cheerful, but others, like "Revolution nr 9" and "Rocky Racoon" just seem totally unnecessary. Just my opinion.

As for "Sgt. Pepper" being the best rock album ever, I don't believe there's any such thing. There are so many different types of rock music that somparing them and choosing one seems kind of ridiculous.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:46 PM

Actually, I think objectively that they should have put Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields Forever on the album (PL was certainly slated for that) and dumped things like "Good Morning, Good Morning". Those two songs together are really something special. It is interesting that the Cambridge Music Guides which usually work on Berio and Brahms, picked Sgt. Pepper to analyse (very interestingly), and the author snuck in Penny Lane and Strawberry Fields.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: alanabit
Date: 29 May 07 - 02:13 PM

I think the Beatles as a pop group will never be surpassed. They were good enough musicians to pull off the tasks they set themselves. That is not saying they were brilliant instrumentalists. In fact they achieved considerably more than many bands, who had much more basic musical ability. That in itself was extraordinary. Looking back, it is hard to remember what pop music was before they arrived. For me, they were the first ever adult pop group. I do not believe anyone else could have brought that off.
I'll go along with the comments of Bee-dubya-ell on this one. Somehow "Sergeant Pepper" had a very special aura in 1967. I think it is almost impossible to explain why objectively forty years later. Maybe this is a subject, which does not lend itself to objectivity?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Bill D
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:54 PM

I got Folked, and I missed it.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 29 May 07 - 12:14 PM

Those who've said that the songwriting in Sgt. Pepper's is not the Beatles' best have a valid point. Most of Pepper's songs are witty little vignettes that don't hold up well outside of the context of the album itself. Within the album context, they work exceptionally well.

What they do particularly well is create visual images within listeners' minds. Remember that there was no MTV in 1967 -- no video directors to interpret the songs and imprint packaged images upon our brains. We all listened and allowed the songs to create images within our minds. Sgt. Pepper's was the soundtrack to the movie, but the movie was different for everyone who listened to the album.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Billy Shears
Date: 29 May 07 - 11:08 AM

katlaughing,

It's perfectly fine to slag off on the Beatles. It's not like they ever did anything that had the impact or the staying power of all those Mudcatter CD's.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:42 AM

Sgt Pepper was better than 99.5 percent of the crap that came out about that same time. But I think it suffers from the separation of Lennon amd McCartny as a writing team. In my opinion they were better songwriters when they were trying to mix oil and water.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:42 AM

Dollars

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:37 AM

Oh - and I just (re) bought - after a gap of millions of years - Revolver. Cracking album but what were they thinking of with Yellow Submarine? :-)

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: redsnapper
Date: 29 May 07 - 10:10 AM

Second John Hardly and M.Ted.

Not their best but still good.

RS

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 May 07 - 09:50 AM

Loved it. It was the first cassette tape my ex and I ever bought. The second was a Simon and Garfunkel. Cassette were just becoming the in thing in western Colorado.

I prefer Abbey Road and, esp., the White Album, but Sgt. Pepper will always be special because of the times in which I first acquired it.

BTW, slagging off on the Beatles sounds like sour grapes to me and a bit unseemly.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 29 May 07 - 09:40 AM

I never got it. How come Sgt Pepper, of all the Beatles' albums, is considered such a pop masterpiece? No, not a pop masterpiece- a work of art? During the late 60s, there were a handful of albums that revolutionised the soundscape of the period : `Trout Mask Replica', `The Velvet Underground with Nico', 'Astral Weeks', `Pet Sounds','The Band' and the Dylan triumverate: 'Bringing it all Back Home', 'Blonde on Blonde' and 'Highway 61 Revisited.' Let's not forget the umpteen psychedelic one-offs by garage bands captured on the Nuggets compilations. Sgt. Pepper don't even come close to those. The songs are mostly trite, silly, and boring. Even Macca's Frog Chorus thing some years back had a more memorable tune than most of the tracks on here. There are a few that are okay.' With A Little Help From My Friends' is pleasant enough, although Cocker's version is far superior - and that is hardly meant as a recommendation. 'Getting Better' is listenable. The rest are excruciating. `She's Leaving Home' just has to be the most sentimental tosh you will ever here in your life. It's a wonder Cilla Black never covered it. `Lucy...' and `A Day in the Life' are the only songs that stand up to scrutiny.

It may appear as if I have no time for the Beatles. Not true. I think the Fab Four are one of the finest pop groups of the 60s and I heartily recommend such classics as `Abbey Road' and `A Hard Day's Night.' Sgt Pepper, however, I hate. I even hate the cover, which is fussy and scrappy. The photographic portraits of Robert Freeman are far more striking and pleasing to the eye.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 May 07 - 09:31 AM

I always liked the Beatles but I must admit that there are, and were then, much better bands. Never liked the 'stones much either. For 'Pop' I think you would be hard pushed to beat the Small Faces. Clever writing? Ray Davis and the Kinks. Rock? Hendrix of course:-) One of my favourites of all time, and still touring, Jethro Tull! Today Oasis seem to trying to do what the Beatles did, and are just as MOR when you compare them to the Kaiser Chiefs or Arctic Monkeys!

The Beatles did, however, encapsulate the feelings at the time. It was that move away from 'parents music' to music by and for the kids which Rock 'n' Roll started but the '60's' finished. I always thought they were reacting to something rather than leading the way though. Sgt Pepper as the point in question. Lots of people had already done the whole psycodelia thing, including the acid lyrics (Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds to do with LSD? Never! - Must be true coz Lennon said so..) and the military cut uniforms. Somehow though the Beatles managed to bring all these things to the 'masses' like no others did.

If I knew how that happened I would be a rich man today:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 May 07 - 09:28 AM

"You can't really disagree with it's importance, except to say, perhaps, that it wasn't important to you, but then, who are you?"

M.Ted, in his usual brilliant manner, cuts to the chase.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 May 07 - 09:22 AM

It was a revolutionary album, because it redefined the way music was produced, written, recorded, played, marketed, conceptualize, etc, etc, etc..........

You can't really disagree with it's importance, except to say, perhaps, that it wasn't important to you, but then, who are you?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:42 AM

Paul McCartney started out on the trumpet. John Lennon started out on the Banjo. George Harrison started out on the ukulele.

If only they'd stuck at it they might have made something of themselves.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,scotch-man
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:34 AM

Hardly an intelligent comment. The Beatles were shit - they knew it! They couldn't play. Paul was the only one with a bit of talent which he realised and left the other three herberts high and dry. As for Lennon - arsehole pretending to be a revolutionary whilst living the life of a prat!

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:25 AM

Yeah, the world has virtually been on hold in anticipation of the genius who could come along and rightly assess the inferiority of Sgt Peppers. Yeah, those Beatles sure were overrated.

Of course, there is a whole generation (obviously younger than the old farts that populate this place and scream things like "HEY YOU, KID!!......GET OFFA MY LAWN!!") who were so inspired by that inferior Beatles music that they adopted a lifelong pursuit of guitars and music.

Beatles criticism from lovers of the Kingston Trio. That's rich.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:21 AM

Nobody getting all nostalgic then ?

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:19 AM

It was twenty years ago today that people were saying 'It was twenty years ago today' that Sgt Pepper came out.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: GUEST,Adrian Owlett
Date: 29 May 07 - 08:01 AM

I have never been able to come to terms with friends who bang on about Sergeant Pepper being the best album of all time. To my ears it is complete nonsense and only succeeds now through nostalgia glazed eyes. Personally I never much cared for the Beatles as we had far greater musically gifted bands around at the time. They really did get lucky - but of course they did write many of their own tunes and that is what set them apart from the others. For me though, it was image over substance 100%

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: alanabit
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:55 AM

I also thought Sergeant Pepper was overrated. I think that it was the first time that their ambitions exceeded their writing ability.
"Revolver" actually has more revolutionary songs on it and the sheer energy and innovation is breathtaking even now. Play it next to a U2 album and U2 sound positively conservative. On "Revolver", The Beatles pushed the existing technology to its limits - and the songwriting was there to match. On "Pepper", they were using new sounds, but the songwriting was comparably weak. It's a thing of its time, I guess, but I can think of five or six Beatles albums, which I would rather hear than Sergeant Pepper.

Subject: RE: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:48 AM

You would be hard pushed to find a more over hyped pop group than the sodding Beatles. I was a Rolling Stones man myself.

Subject: Sgt. Pepper (the usual nostalgia crap)
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 May 07 - 07:41 AM

The papers are beginning to fill up with more nostalgia crap about the Beatles and Sgt. Pepper (it is amusing that everything seems to be duodecimal) -- 20 years ago, 40 years, 64. Fiftieth anniversaries are nothing it seems (first meeting of Johnny and the Moondogs, perhaps?).

I succumb. My even more Beatle obsessed friend hitchicked illegally from school to bring the album back and we sat in the dorm with our little crappy record player and played it about ten times the first day, and tried to figure out the lyrics (hard to read on the back), but who ever heard of putting out lyrics on the album?

Except for "A Day in the Life" it was never my favourite Beatles album. They had me at "She Loves You" -- and thinking back, the most revolutionary moment for me was the cover of Rubber Soul.

There, I did it, I said it, and I'm proud.

yours,

Peter T.