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DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat
DigiTrad:
THE PEELER AND THE GOAT
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Subject: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Jun 07 - 04:44 PM This is an edited DTStudy thread, and all messages posted here are subject to editing and deletion. This thread is intended to serve as a forum for corrections and annotations for the Digital Tradition song named in the title of this thread. Search for other DTStudy threadsI came across this song today, and found there hadn't been much posted about it. Maybe it's time to take a look at it. Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on the song: Peeler and the Goat, TheDESCRIPTION: The Peelers meet a goat and plan to jail him for being on the road. The goat says that he is honorable if houseless and that the road is his home. He expects to be acquitted. He says the peelers are drunk and could be bought for more poteen.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1939 (OLochlainn) KEYWORDS: prison drink humorous political animal police FOUND IN: Ireland REFERENCES (2 citations): OLochlainn 74, "The Peeler and the Goat" (1 text, 1 tune) DT, PEELERGT* Roud #1458 BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Harding B 26(510), "The Original Peeler and the Goat," unknown, n.d.; also 2806 b.9(266), "The Peeler and the Goat" Notes: Sir Robert Peel established the Royal Irish Constabulary in 1812 and its success led, in 1829, to the Metropolitan Police Act for London. Originally the term "Peeler" applied to the London constabulary. (source: Sir Robert "Bobby" Peel (1788-1850) at Historic UK site.) In this song the term is applied to the Bansha police in Bansha, County Tipperary. - BS File: OLOc074 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2006 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. Here are the lyrics from the Digital Tradition. Where are they from? The "DC" initials at the end of the entry are an indication the lyrics were submitted by Dick Cook, probably for the original (1988?) version of the Digital Tradition. What's this "Borderlands" recording the DT refers to? THE PEELER AND THE GOAT Oh, the Penshaw peeler went one night On duty and patrolling He spied a goat upon the road And took him for a-strolling Bayonet fixed, he sallied forth And he caught him by the wizzen There swore out a mighty oath He's send him off to prison Have mercy, sir, the goat replied And let me tell my story I am no rogue, no ribbon man No cockey, Whig, or Tory I'm innocent of any crime, Of petty or high treason For my tribe is active at this time It is the mating season. "Do not complain," the peeler said But give your tongue a bridle You're absent from your dwelling place, Disorderly, and idle Your hoary locks will not prevail Nor your sublime oration For the penal laws will you transport On your own information No penal laws have I transgressed By deed or combination It's true I have no place of rest, No home, or habitation But Penshaw is my dwelling place Where I was bread and borne-o I'm of an honest working race That's all the trade I've learned-o I wager, sir, that you are drunk On whiskey, rum, and brandy Or you wouldn't have such gallant spunk To be so bold and manly You readily would let me pass If I had money handy I'd take you to the parting glass Its then I'd be the dandy Recorded on "Borderlands" @animal filename[ PEELERGT TUNE FILE: PEELERGT CLICK TO PLAY DC From The Fiddler's Companion:
X:1 T:Peeler and the Goat, The M:6/8 L:1/8 R:Air N:”Lively” S:O’Neill – Music of Ireland (1903), No. 296 Z:AK/Fiddler’s Companion K:A Minor A/B/|c2A BAG|A2B c2d|efe d2c|B2G GAB|c2A BAG|A2B c2d|e^fg =fed|e2A A2|| ^f|g2e dcd|e^f^g a2b|age d2g|B2G GAB|c2A BAG|A2B c2d|e^fg =fed|e2A A2|| To play or display ABC tunes, try concertina.net There's another version (source not specified) at ingeb.org Photos of Bansha (click), including the Poet Darby Ryan (1779 - March 1856, Aged 76 Years) famous for his satirical ballad "The Peeler And The Goat" also known as "The Bansha Peeler." More on this song at thesession.org |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: MartinRyan Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:15 PM The version leaves out the ".. O!" ending usually given to each line. In verse 3 above (the usual format is 8-line verses, BTW), for "cockey" read "croppy" as in Croppy Boy! Overall, the DT version reads like a shortened version of that in O'Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads" with a few minor misreadings or "translations for clarity" e.g. "mating season" for "ranting season". Sung versions in Ireland tend to stick to O'Lochlainn's text, in my experience - dropping the odd verse where attention spans demand! Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: MartinRyan Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:24 PM The Roud Index link gives details of several old sources of this old song. O'Lochlainn mentions that the song was "written by Darby Ryan." O'Lochlainn also published a little book with biographies of songwriters - wonder if Ryan is in it? I have a copy somewhere... if I can find it. Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: MartinRyan Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:30 PM No - no mention of Darby Ryan. Regards |
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Subject: ADD Version: The Peeler and the Goat From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:32 PM The Peeler and the Goat (Darby Ryan) Oh, the Bansha Peelers went out one night On duty and patrolling, O. They met a goat upon the road And took him for being a strolling, O. With bayonets fixed they sallied forth And caught him by the wizen, O, And then swore out a mighty oath, They'd send him off to prison, O. "Oh, mercy, sir!" the goat replied, "And let me tell my story O. I am no Rogue, no Ribbonman, No Croppy, Whig, or a Tory O; I'm guilty not of any crime Of petty or high treason O, And our tribe is wanted at this time, For this is the ranting season O." "It is in vain for to complain Or give your tongue such bridle O, You're absent from your dwellingplace, Disorderly and idle O. Your hoary locks will not prevail, Nor your sublime oration O, For Peeler's Act will you transport, On your own information O." "No penal laws I did transgress By deeds or combination O, I have no certain place of rest, No home or habitation O. But Bansha is my dwellingplace, Where I was bred and born O, I'm descended from an honest race, That's all the trade I've learned O." "I will chastise your insolence And violent behaviour O; Well bound to Cashel you'll be sent, Where you will gain no favour O. The magistrates will all consent To sign your condemnation O; From there to Cork you will be sent For speedy transportation O." "This parish an' this neighbourhood Are peaceable and tranquil O; There's no disturbance here, thank God! And long may it continue so. I don't regard your oath a pin, Or sign for my committal O, My jury will be gentlemen And grant me my acquittal O." "The consequence be what it will, A peeler's power I'll let you know, I'll handcuff you, at all events, And march you off to Bridewell O. And sure, you rogue, you can't deny Before the judge or jury O, Intimidation with your horns, And threatening me with fury O." "I make no doubt but you are drunk, With whiskey, rum, or brandy O, Or you wouldn't have such gallant spunk To be so bold or manly O. You readily would let me pass If I had money handy O, To treat you to a poteen glass— 'Tis then I'd be the dandy O." source: Irish Street Ballads, Colm O Lochlainn Click to play-very much like the fiddle tune posted above. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: MartinRyan Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:35 PM There's a short biography of Darby Ryan HERE (scroll past the saints! Regards |
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Subject: ADD Version: The Peeler and the Goat From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:11 PM This one was a bear to transcribe. THE PEELER AND THE GOAT As set of peelers were out one night On duty and patrolling, O They met a goat upon the road, And took him to be a strolling, O. With bayonets fixed, they sallied forth And caught him by the wizzen, O, And then swore out a mighty oath, They'd send him to New Zealand, O. GOAT.] Oh, mercy, sir, the goat replied, Pray, let me tell my story, O, I am no rogue or ribbonman, A Croppy. Whig, or Tory, O, Guilty not of any crime, Petty, or high treason, O, For our tribe is wanted at this time, As this is the ranting season, O. PEELER.] It is in vain for to complain, Or give your tongue such brIdle, O, You're absent from your dwelling-place, Disorderly and idle, O. Your hoary locks will not prevail, Nor your sublime oration, O. For Peelers' Act will you transport, By your own information, O. GOAT.] No penal laws I did transgress, By deeds or combination, O, I have no certain place of rest, Or house of habitation, O Banshee is my dwelling-place, Where I was bred and born, O, I'm descended from an honest race, That's all the trade I've learned, O. PEELER.] I will chastise your insolence, And violent behaviour, O. Well-bound to Cashel you will be sent, Where you will gain no favour, O. The Magistrates will all consent To sign your condemnation, O, From thence to Cork you will be sent, For speedy transportation. O. GOAT.] This parish and its neighbourhood Are peaceable and tranquil, O. There is no disturbance here, thank God, And may it long continue so; Your oath I don't regard a pin. To sign my comitttal, O, For my jury will be gentlemen, To grant me my acquittal, O. PEELER.] Let the consequence be what it will, A peeler's power I'll let you know, I'll hand-cuff you at all events And march you off to prison, O; You villain, sure you can't deny, Before the judge and jury, O, With you I did find two long spears, Which threatened me with fury, O. GOAT.] I am certain if you were not drunk From whiskey, rum, or brandy, O, You would not have such gallant spunk, To be so bold and manly, O, For readily you would let me pass, If I had sterling handy, O, To treat you to a potteen glass, Oh! Then I'd be the dandy, O. Source: Bodleian Ballads 2806 b.9(266), "The Peeler and the Goat" |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:21 PM It's an elaboration of a real incident. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: MartinRyan Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:24 PM BTW, that tune in the DT is curious - not remotely like the usual. Regards |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:30 PM I'd agree with your questions about the DT tune and lyrics, Martin. I'll post the Colm O Lochlainn tune after lunch. -Joe, starved- Click to play
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,Jerry O'Reilly Date: 05 Jun 07 - 06:38 PM For an excellent sung version refer to the Musical Traditions/An Goilin Double CD "Around the Hills of Clare", sung by Martin Reidy (1901-1985). |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:30 PM We still haven't answered the question of the source of the Digital Tradition version. There are several references to a "Penshaw Peeler" on the Internet - do they all come from a Mondegreen that originated in the Digital Tradition? -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:50 PM So far as I can see, every single instance of 'Penshaw' (which is in the North of England!) in the context of this song has been copied from the DT file, usually without acknowledgement. The reference to Borderlands is puzzling unless you run a search for it; it then becomes apparent that 'DC' posted several sets of words transcribed from a record of that name made by Chris Caswell and Danny Carnahan in 1982. Whether they sang 'Penshaw' or 'Bansha' I wouldn't know, but I strongly suspect the latter. Such information as can be found on the web suggests that they made up their own tune for the song, which might explain why the DT midi bears no resemblance to the usual melody. Another example, I fear, of the DT's increasingly important role as the world's single greatest source of error and misinformation on the subject of folk music. Roll on the day when the database is finally converted into a non-obsolete format that can be updated and corrected as things come up, instead of (if at all) several years too late. See also the brief thread This is a long shot...haggedeedee let go of me for some comment on the chorus sometimes attached to the song. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,Dennis Cook Date: 05 Jun 07 - 10:03 PM This version in the DT is from a 1982 cassette tape, KMC-316, from Kicking Mule records P.O.Box 158 Alder Point, CA 95411 by Chris Caswell and Danny Carnahan. I don't know if KMC or even the address still exists. Their liner notes say "Most of the lyrics for Peeler and the Goat, Easy and Slow, and Farmer's Curst Wife are traditional." They did tend to make the songs their own. It is one of the original 300 DT entries, since I was singing that version back then, and had typed the words into my collection in Word Perfect. Dennis Cook (not to be confused with Dick Greenhouse) |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,michaelr Date: 05 Jun 07 - 11:13 PM I checked the CD re-release of Caswell-Carnahan. It only says "Another song from the pages of Colm O Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads". Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 06 Jun 07 - 07:57 AM As indicated, the song is printed in Colm O Lochlainn, Irish Street Ballads (the first, not the second volume), NY, Citadel/Corinth, 1960, pp 146-7. O Lochlainn's note, p. 225, says of this song, "Learnt in childhood from E. Gilshenan, Virginia, Co. Cavan. cf. EFSii, 259; id. vi, 299, Aryr is me' 'mo wogadyl. IFSvi, 27, An Buailteo'ir (from Bunting MS.) M142, Little Celia Connellan. Written by Darby Ryan. EFS = Journal of the English Folk Song Society IFS = Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society M = Moffat's Minstrelsy of Ireland Bob |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:09 AM By the way, as the O Lochlainn collection was first published in 1935, his childhood learning of the song would presumably put it back around 1900 or earlier. Someone who knows his birth date (I haven't been able to find it) could make this time of origin more specific. Darby Ryan, "The Bansha Bard," first sang his "world-famous satirical ballad 'The Peeler and the Goat' outside Bansha's Old Church on a Sunday after service in 1830. The occasion is reenacted to this day as a street play in Bansha, a village in the Glen of Aherlow not far from Tipperary Town in Munster Province, complete with goat, heckling the peelers, and all sorts of local fun. See http://www.iol.ie/~plugin/theplay.htm The following is taken from http://www.iol.ie/~plugin/darbyr.htm DARBY RYAN OF ASHGROVE Sean O'Grogan, descendant of Darby Ryan, published a book of Ryan's poems, in the 1950's. The poet was born in Ashgrove in The Glen of Aherlow in 1777. The younger son of the family, Darby Ryan (Diarmid O Riain) proved early in his life to have a talent for literature. He gained his primary education in literature and the classics at a "hedge school", and showed such talent that he was allowed by the owners of Bansha Castle and Thomastown Castle to read the precious books in their castle libraries. Father Mathew of Thomastown encouraged the young man in his literary endeavours, and also to study for the priesthood in Rome. Darby Ryan's poems were very evocative of the Galty Mountains and the beautiful Glen of Aherlow beneath their Northern slopes, in which Bansha is situated. The poet was a great Irish Patriot, and was buried in Bansha Graveyard. The life of this famed local man was an ideal subject for a play, and so more historical research began. An Irish edition of the book appeared from Three Candles Press, Dublin, 1960. Bob |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Jack Campin Date: 06 Jun 07 - 08:57 AM The tune posted here seems to be a variant of the "Lulle me beyond thee" family. No tune is specified in the Bodleian copy of the broadside. Is it a pastiche of something commonly sung at the time? An oddity of the text is the idea of transporting people to New Zealand. It was never a penal colony - there was an abortive suggestion at one point that the Botany Bay authorities could send their most recalcitrant offenders there and dump them in the middle of the North Island bush with no support so that the Maori could eat them, but the New Zealand administration wouldn't have it. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 06 Jun 07 - 09:35 AM Bob, great info on Ryan, etc. Thanks for posting! |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Mo the caller Date: 06 Jun 07 - 01:53 PM Well, I had on;y heard of this as a dance, untill now. Couples in a circle, finishes with lady, then man, then lady, then man, turning under partners crossed hands. I had in my mind a Peeler trying to lead a lost goat on a rope and getting tangled up. I know better now. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 06 Jun 07 - 09:18 PM Some of the references Bob quotes require further explanation. There has never been an 'English Folk Song Society'. O Lochlainn's reference was to the Journal of the Folk-Song Society, which did not restrict itself to folk song in the English language. He added (England) after it, perhaps so that readers would not confuse it with the Journal of the Irish Folk Song Society, which had a narrower focus. The two refs are to: Volume II (issue 9) 1906, 259-60: two tunes; the first noted in Liverpool with one verse, the second from an Irish MS of c. 1840. Both from Frank Kidson. Volume VI (issue 25) 1921, 299-300: an apparently unrelated text (the first two verses 'withheld' for unstated reasons) noted by A Martin Freeman from Mr Conny Cochlan, Derrynasaggart. Three verses in Gaelic with English translation. Presumably the tune is related. 'Little Celia Connellan'. An unrelated text, 'translated from the Irish by John D'Alton', which Moffat took from Hardiman's Irish Minstrlsy (I, 1831) and set to a 'Peeler and the Goat' tune found in Hudson's Native Music of Ireland (Citizen Magazine, November 1842). Moffat commented 'There is an air in Bunting's third collection, entitled "Celia Connallon," which is possibly the original air to the Irish song; but Bunting's setting is not vocal and the compass is too large.' |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,JTT Date: 07 Jun 07 - 07:23 PM Bansha in Tipperary is in the centre of the Munster poitin area - of the nearby town of Golden, the epicentre of the industry, it's said "Walk through Cashel, run through Golden". Bansha is a most beautiful place - well I remember sleeping a night in a house called Bansha Castle, with wild roses climbing the outside of the Georgian house and a view across the range of mountains. The 'big house' had been divided into seven four-room flats, or perhaps four seven-room flats, and the room I liked best in the flat where I slept the night was the bathroom, a big 18th-century room with tall windows, in which had been installed a claw-footed iron bath, on a platform at the centre of the room, and a palatial toilet, in the corner, to which you ascended by three steps. The people who brought us there had picked me and my friend up as we waited, shivering, to hitch a lift opposite Portlaoise Prison; I was so desperate that I'd started shouting "Up the IRA" in the hopes of getting a cell for the night. They were returning from a trip to Dublin so the man of the couple could do his exams for an Open University maths degree. Bless their hearts. |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: leahyj Date: 29 Sep 14 - 06:05 PM The post from GUEST,JTT which I just stumbled across is a blast from the past , early 70's , since it was I gave the lift and I remember it well . By the way it was my wife Nancy who directed the pageant referred to in one of the posts above (http://www.iol.ie/~plugin/theplay.htm ). |
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: The Peeler and the Goat From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 29 Sep 14 - 09:15 PM Both Dominic Behan and The Pogues used this tune, or something close to it, for "The Recruiting Sergeant". |
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