Why aren't the Corries taken seriously

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Apr 25 - 02:50 PM

The Irish Rovers did some great instrumentals, and some of their original songs have a very traditional feel.

My gorge still rises, however, when unable to flee "The Unicorn" (which they didn't write, BTW). It still has quite a following.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Apr 25 - 02:07 PM

i agree Meself, outclassed by the irish rovers? all a matter of taste

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: meself
Date: 24 Apr 25 - 11:29 AM

'Both were a little outclassed by the more versatile Dubliners and (how I hate to say it!) Irish Rovers.'

I find that an odd take.

I came to the Corries much later than most of you, I'd imagine, when they were long past their hey-day; having never heard of them, I had no pre-conceptions. In fact, I don't know how I came across them; maybe I bought a second-hand LP on speculation. However, I was, and still am, thoroughly impressed by a lot of their stuff. OTOH, I can understand that they might have been over-exposed, and if every second night when you turned on the TV, there they were, you might get a little weary of their schtick. I was late enough to the game, btw, that the 'image' thing of theirs just seemed amusingly quaint, like platform shoes and bell-bottoms .....

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GerryM
Date: 24 Apr 25 - 09:00 AM

To paraphrase Yogi Berra, they were so popular that nobody listened to them any more.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Apr 25 - 02:23 AM

they were popular so a lot of people took them seriously

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 02:19 PM

Not taken "seriously" by whom? (Sorry if somebody's already answered this.)

Certain now-antiquated coots like myself thought "Lock the Door, Lariston" was fantastic in 1966.

Likewise the Clancy Bros. & Tommy Makem, now mere squares and curiosities to many, but once cutting edge to the few.

Neither group was made up of instrumental geniuses (though Makem's whistling was pretty darned good), and that may be part of the reason for later being out of favor.

Both were a little outclassed by the more versatile Dubliners and (how I hate to say it!) Irish Rovers.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 12:42 PM

I like them better om youtube than I did when they were around. Particularly like their version of Lowlands.

At the time they struck me as a bit weird - all those instruments...,
and you never really felt they could play any of them.
Then there was the leather braces that looked suspiciously like bondage gear,,,, only you parents never suspected anything. my parents even laughed at 'the jokes'.

There was this first album with Paddy Bell that |I liked. Particularly The Verdant Braes of Skreen. Some bits of it sounded a bit Jimmy Shand=ish.

I suspect they lived in their little bit of history and did as best as they could, like we all do.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 12:14 PM

most of what you mention were not doing the kind of material the Corries were & not with the 'modern' guitars etc. I was never a fan but I think you're far too hard on them.
They drew a completely different audience to the heather & haggis stuff you mentioned & made young folk look a lot harder at the Scottish tradition

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 10:55 AM

I wouldn't say the Corries revived Scottish music.. but they rode on the back of a folk revival.   The peak of Scottish Heather n' hills music as a national family viewing and listening thing, was late 50's-80's.. and apart from theatre shows, there were plenty of TV shows.. with Tenors, Accordion Players, Folk Singers, and statutory dancers.   also loads of radio shows.   Kennedy, Alexander Bros., McKellar Tartan Lads, Andy Stewart, Joe Gordon, Folk Groups galore.. They were at the popular end of that. Like all booms there is an end, it eventually looked jaded, and gradually the main media altered the type of Scottish trad. they put on TV and radio. Also the main London record labels, like Decca, Pye, EMI etc. who made stars of many names in that period, were no longer actively involved with that type of act.. and Runrig, Proclaimers etc. took over and had their turn in the popularity stakes.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 09:21 AM

OF ITS TIME - a time when Scottish music of any kind was almost unknown on radio or TV or the concert stage & fading fast in the living tradition-    thanks due to Roy & Ronnie for their part in the revival....

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 11:34 PM

I am not anti-Scottish, I am in fact a Scottish 'Highlander' and entitled to see the image of my own Scots alleged 'nation' and its culture, in terms of musical stereotyping and marketing strategies. The Corries got saddled and marketed with a certain image, and I was just pointing that out, as that was connected to the question being discussed. OF ITS TIME being a relevant point as to why image wise, they seem a bit naff in the 21st Century. Musically, they recorded some lovely ballads, and rousing folk songs between the comedy drivel etc.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 01:43 PM

if it wisnae for the Corries, a lot of people would never have taken an interest in Scottish music. And we can do with out the snide, anti-Scottish nonsense of the last post. It was OF ITS TIME and also- Harry Lauder was no stereotype- he was an original in his day. Also their jumpers were Irish, so from Aran not Arran, which is in Scotland

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 06:02 AM

A multitalented duo.. but releases spoilt for me by the turgid pastiche comedy songs, which you either love or hate. Then there's the terrible dress sense.. they went from the Arran jumper look to the bizarre Celtic shirts and tunic things, and horrible shirts.   Also their political stuff was naff for me, and associated with a certain period of Scottish nationalism, with 'that song', overshadowing all before it, and being sung by every drunk, and anti-English nutter on the go. Being EMI artists in their heyday and beyond, they were always included on the obligatory Tartan heather, hills and haggis compilations amongst the stereotype Harry Lauders etc.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Lang Johnnie Mor
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 05:30 AM

To answer the original question, because they were successful and popular, and that's never been allowed in Scotland [IMHO].

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 03:15 AM

They were OK, but the "Uniforms" !!

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,WRG Kettle
Date: 17 Apr 25 - 01:02 AM

Hey! I'm a 25 year old muso from Victoria, Australia, and as such, have a lot of family (since passed, though dad is 83) who were amongst the first 'Cobbers' who came out here and settled in NSW. If it weren't for The Corries, The McCalmans, The Yetties of Yetminster, and plenty of others, I daresay that my childhood would have been tragic. I feel truly blessed to have been born into a family so attached to their musical roots.

On the note of Celtic music being 'either completely intrumental, or, if not, unaccompanied', I say that that's COMPLETELY inaccurate. The Celtic culture has ALWAYS been known for its storytelling, poetry, musicianship and the sharing of all through song. Of course, reels are for dances - but to put a verse to music is a very traditional practice. It's shameful that anyone would say such a thing, quite frankly.

As a Gen Zedder, or 'Zoomer', I struggle with great loneliness, primarily due to the lack of appreciation of traditional music that I play. Not many deathcore bands want a mandolin, fiddle, and whistle player. Conclusively, folkers like us need to stick together. We're a breed I'd hate to see die.

Regards,
- Will




'Stick it where? And if I did, how could I tune it with it stuck way up there?' - The Corries ; 'The Folker'

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 03:06 PM

When i performed the Rose of Allandale at a well known folk club i was asked if it was based on the Corries version to which i replied "no its the brass band version"
This excuse has been used many times when i use the "folk process" and do something slightly differntly from other "Folks"
If anyone else uses tis excuse Ill know where they got it from.

Being from the Edinburgh area with its many military connections I would imagine one of the Corries would have heard it played by pipe, brass or military band in march time and found that "arrangement" more to their style, the sheet music arrangement I have is in 4/4 time and to the melody used by the Corries

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: StephenH
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 02:57 PM

Well, they always appealed to me, even admitting that I found them verging on the cute once in a while. On the other hand, I love their renditions of "The Roving Journeyman" using full matchboxes as percussion, or "I Will Go" using the twin bodhran accompaniment.
I thought the combination of the bodhran and what's listed on the lp as a '28-string guitar' on "Kishmul's Galley" gave the song a certain majesty, and their version of Robin Willimason's "October Song" remains an absolute favourite of mine.
I never regretted purchasing the half-dozen of their lps still in my
possession.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 02:06 PM

The one that surprised me, when I heard other versions in slow 3/4 time, was "The Rose of Allandale" - seems everyone in Scotland who does it, gives it that rousing 4/4 march tempo, which I guess, came from their version. Have to say I much prefer the slow 3/4 (e.g. check out the Watersons).
But no doubting their popularity which has led to various people doing cover versions, including "The Sorries" who appear at Edinburgh Festival Fringe regularly, and do a fair job of it

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 12:03 PM

At the time of their popularity, hey were taken very seriously by the population in Scotland in general, but not by "the folk scene", for the very reasons set out by "Akenaton". This is Scotland - you're not allowed to be successful.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:44 AM

"My only complaint about them was that they recorded Cyril Tawney's great song 'The Grey Funnel Line ' and re-named it ' The Bona Line ' and gave no credit to Cyril, unforgiveable."

Yeah, I've often wondered why they did that, since the notes on their CDs and records are normally quite good about crediting people. Could it have been to do with the way Roy Williamson learnt songs? He couldn't read music as a child, and I don't know to what extent he learnt as an adult. If he heard it sung in a pub, "Bona Line" may gave been a Mondegreen for "Grey Funnel Line" and he may have been introduced to it as if it were a traditional song of unknown provenance.

Pity, because I like the way Roy sings the song very much.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Ake
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:39 AM

Ah Cyril Tawney......"The Oggie Man" was my introduction to recorded folk music.....If I remember it was sung to the Johny Mathis tune ..."The twelth of never"......took this then young man a while to understand what it was all about.....RIP Cyril, simply one of the best.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:30 AM

My only complaint about them was that they recorded Cyril Tawney's great song 'The Grey Funnel Line ' and re-named it ' The Bona Line ' and gave no credit to Cyril, unforgiveable.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Johnny J
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:28 AM

The Corries themselves were fine but it was all "the clones" which were on the go at the time and the often extremely "in your face" aggressive Jacobite performers which passed for pub folk performers back then which became a bit too much.

It's not any better now, of course, as dreich "singer songwriters" and second rate Americana/Country singers have taken their place.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:20 AM

"Why weren't the Corries taken seriously?"
Very simple, because they were very popular......the great unwashed loved them because they entertained.....and the snobs who comprise much of the folk music scene could not bear to share their tastes!!!

It's much worse today though, most of the stuff produced today, can be tholled only by the deeply initiated.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Allan Conn
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 07:44 AM

(who will admit to liking some of their material AND learning some of their harmonies, LOL!)

To tell you the truth I was a teenager in the late 70s and was in a punk rock band. All my mates were in to punk etc but we also listened to The Corries. I never missed their TV programmes. They were regarded as quite cool even by youngsters and many Scottish people (outside the real folk circles) got to know many of these songs through the versions by The Corries and their versions are still loved by many. I too have seen them criticised but all these years later I still get asked to sing a "Corries song" when the person actually means a "Scottish folk song". So the people who matter - their audience - certainly do remember them fondly. For me I am not a great lover of too many comic songs anyway so if I was making up a Corries playlist it would be unlikely to include any of their comic songs and yes this one in question is hopelessly dated and not acceptable now. However their Killiecrankie, Wild Mountain Thyme, Dark Lochnagar, Annie Laurie etc take some beating. For me anyway!

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 07:56 PM

wonderful article. well done finding it.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 07:42 PM

Just came across this Corries article (with an emphasis on Roy's lifestory):

https://senscot.net/true-story-of-man-behind-the-corries/

Here is an excerpt :

" ... Besides ditching the day jobs, Williamson and Browne resolved to abandon the time-consuming trips to folk clubs and instead organise and run their own concert tours. With no middle men the cake was divided into three enticingly large slices: one for each musician and the third for expenses.

As a business model and an artistic venture it was outstandingly successful. Browne, assisted by his wife, Pat, an accountant, took care of the business side, while Williamson, the more gifted player, looked after the music. Browne, by his own admission, could barely strum a guitar before he joined The Corries, but he was willing to learn and his singing voice complemented his partner’s.

The duo’s concerts could give the impression of being couthy and off-the-cuff, but the reality was entirely different. Rehearsals were meticulous and nothing was left to chance. The pair were the ultimate professionals and their audiences loved them, buying records, tapes and CDs and other merchandise in huge quantities at the shows. Yet, just as Williamson’s relationship with his mother was fractious, so too it could be with Browne. If they weren’t on a par with Noel and Liam Gallagher, they had their moments... "


Cheers, R-J
(who will admit to liking some of their material AND learning some of their harmonies, LOL!)

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,EAMON O'MARA
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 11:51 AM

Many years later. Does it all matter? I have lived and worked in ten different countries. I play Irish music, but I will play any song--Christian,Muslim,Hindu--that I happen to like. In this desperate, disparate world music is one thing we can all share. Let us share.   e.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM

It makes no more sense to castigate the Corries for lyrics written all these years ago than it does to purse the lips about the Fawlty Towers episode where the Major describes the difference between wogs and niggers.

No, it wouldn't happen nowadays, but that was then, and now is now.

btw I loved Don Meixner's line "It makes no sense or cents to record a mess of LPs only to have them as beer coasters in your retirement"

So true.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: stallion
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 03:56 PM

Just heard a tape from mike harding in the 1970's, now he probably would cringe at language he was using, similiar vintage, different world now, we all fall into the trap of making judgement on events and people with our 21st century goggles, we live in a more enlightened or sensative world now and had they been performing today they probably, no, certainly, wouldn't have written those words to the song. It was how it was then, be thankful it isn't now. And be a little more forgiving thats how we progress as a society.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 03:33 PM

Well, now I know. The unfortunate thing about this is that, while all the other faux racist remarks do make me smile, the phrase in question seems devoid of wit. However, I'll remain a fan, as will most, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Reinhard
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 03:27 PM

I wonder how shallow someone must be that a short phrase from a parody taken out of context makes them from "the best" to "can barely listen to".

johnmc, according to Wikipedia, the song in question seems to be the Corries's parody of Scotland the Brave. In it they cite a kitchen sink full of prejudices, the jews just one of dozens of others.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: BTNG
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 02:54 PM

Before the politically correct really get their knickers in a knot, let's put the line into it's proper context. I t comes from a piss take of Scotland The Brave, so if for example, you're an Elton John or Rolling Stones fan, you're also going to be offended by this song..Time to get a sense of humour I think...eh ...?

The Corries - Scotland The Brave

Land o' the purple heather.
Land o' the dirty weather.
Land where the midges gaither, Scotland the Brave.
Land o' the Pakistanis,
Andy Capp and Saturday sannies.
Land where they sell their grannies, Scotland the Brave.

Used to say in faither's day,
You could hear the bagpipes play,
But now you hear the regal tones o' Elton John and The Rolling Stones.
Land that is full o' stinkers,
Wee fat Jews and VP drinkers.
Whisky put a lot o' stinkers, into Scottish graves.

Land that is full o' skivers,
Comic singers, deep sea divers,
Turbans on our bus condrivers, Scotland the Brave.
Land o' the brutal Bobbies,
Councillers wi' part-time jobbies,
Architects wi' paying hobbies, Scotland the Brave.

The tourists come here every year
To see all our historic gear,
But all they see is loads o' navvies, high rise flats wi' concrete lavvies.
Land o' the artic' lorries,
Andy Stewart and ra Corries,
Land where everybody borries, Scotland the Brave.

Land o' the Kilt and Sporran -
Underneath, there's nothin' worn!
How I wish the wind was warm! Scotland the Brave.
I must admit it's pretty gruesome,
Walking about wi' your frozen twosome!
It's all we've got - we musn't lose 'em - Scotland the Brave.

Conservatives try to assure us,
Labour's hard-put to endure us,
The Kirk puts curbs on our enjoyment, Government makes unemployment.
Never mind - the day is near,
When independence will be here!
We'll drink a toast in Younger's beer to Scotland the Brave

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 02:44 PM

As a long time fan, I confess I am unaware of such a remark in their repertoire.
Could you be more specific ?

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Joani
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 02:22 PM

Weren't the Corries anti-semitic, singing about "wee fat Jews" ?I thought they were the BEST until I head that, and now can barely listen to them. I know MANY others who agree. How sad!!!!

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 09:37 AM

Effsee, you're certainly right in that, and you beat me to correcting it :-).

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Effsee
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:16 PM

You're absolutely right Susanne, and I sit corrected, but Len's post implied that it was a H.H. song. Not so.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 08:32 AM

Boab - Len DID say "later folksingers such as Gaughan, Hamish Henderson" which made me, too, wonder a bit.

On the other hand, "No Gods and Precious Few Heroes" has a connection with Hamish Henderson: Brian lifted it from his 'Elegies for the Dead of Cyrenaika', first elegy: 'End of a Campaign', as acknowledged in Brian's songbook.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:31 AM

Stage Manager _


allow them to do a Full Monty review

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 01:28 AM

Effsee---I can't read anything in Len's posting which tries definitely to put Hamish inany particular chronological position relative to the Corries. I think, in fact he did outlive the Corries in the sense that he was still around after Roy died--any correction on that?
Aye, Tattie Bogle, tastes do differ; and believe me, I do not try to belittle your opinion of the Corries "Dark Lochnagar". The Corries undeniably tinkered with melodies, phrasing,and in some instances even lyrics to put their entertainment across. I am no "stick-in-the-mud;where in my view [or to my taste] they actually improved the piece, I was all for it.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Effsee
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 09:36 PM

Len Wallace, having re-read your post, Hamish Henderson was later than the Corries? Jeeze, that just about sums up your knowledge of Scottish Folk Music!

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Effsee
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 09:17 PM

Len Wallace, "No Gods, and precious few heroes" is a Brian McNeil song, and nothing to do with either Hamish Henderson or the Corries.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 08:14 PM

Boab, no accounting for taste is there? Sorry but I still like "Lochnagar".
TB

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Phil
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 07:32 PM

Having purchased probably near every LP [that dates me doesn't it]that the DUBS recorded, I had the joy of being in Luke's company in Sheffield, when they used to play the FIESTA nightclub, and over the road, the CRUCIBLE THEATRE, My point being, talking to Luke about Sheffield and the Fans who followed them, he told me, when we play at the Fiesta it is purely commercialism, when we play the Crucible it is ART. Perhaps the Corries had the same ethos, and played to the audience assembled before them.

Phil*

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:03 AM

Vee haf annexed der corries , but zis is mein last territorial claim!

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:26 AM

I lean toward the term The Folk Snobs myself.

Don

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:13 AM

"folk nazi" rubbish

hmmmm.. just a quickie before i go to bed..


ok.. so how about instead


"folk intelligentsia"
"folk pedants"
"folk supercilious twats"
"real folkie patronising ego wankers"
"errrmm...sorry.. what was that.. must have nodded off...yes of couse.. whatever.. i'll just agree for a quiet life.. folk thought & word police"


g'night..

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:57 PM

Fair enough as far as it goes. But please don't trot out that stupid "folk nazi" rubbish. If, as I suspect, you are old enough to remember the real nazis, you really ought to know better than to use such loaded, and entirely inappropriate, terms.

Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:40 PM

Why aren't The Corries taken seriously?

Hmm...I did and still do. As for others, I have several theories:

1) The Personal Theory. Years ago many of us had our first exposure to Irish and Scottish acoustic folk from the likes of performers such as the Clancy Brothers, The Dubliners and The Corries. And, you know, wihout them as a link to those songs many of those old songs would have been lost. They provided an essential link. Enter the "folk nazis" who question the purity of the tradition. "This is not AUTHENTIC!", they claim. They are partly responsible;

2) The Corries also come from a nationalist Scottish tradition that harkens back to the sixties. In their attempt to resurrect national feeling the emphasis was on an almost uncritical nationalism. Thus the ringing songs about the Bonnie Prince Charlie, King James, etc. Later folksingers such as Gaughan, Hamish Henderson took a more critical nationslist-Left approach emphasising social class, the working class and were critical of the higher ups (case in point, such songs as Henderson's "No Gods and Precious Few Heroes" and "Freedom Come All Ye". So, the Corries represent a certain time period of rising nationalism.

I perform many of the songs saved/performed/developed by The Corries. Then I folow them with one of Henderson's songs to try and put Scottish history into perspective.

Len Wallace