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Why aren't the Corries taken seriously

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Don Meixner 09 Apr 99 - 05:39 PM
Rick Fielding 09 Apr 99 - 07:14 PM
SeanM 09 Apr 99 - 07:59 PM
DonMeixner 09 Apr 99 - 08:25 PM
colin j stewart 09 Apr 99 - 09:06 PM
DonMeixner 09 Apr 99 - 09:36 PM
Rick Fielding 09 Apr 99 - 11:03 PM
DonMeixner 09 Apr 99 - 11:06 PM
Alex 09 Apr 99 - 11:41 PM
Rick Fielding 10 Apr 99 - 12:29 AM
10 Apr 99 - 02:18 AM
The Shambles 10 Apr 99 - 07:26 AM
murray@mpce.mq.edu.au 10 Apr 99 - 08:41 AM
AlistairUK 10 Apr 99 - 10:14 AM
Lucius 10 Apr 99 - 10:14 AM
Rick Fielding 10 Apr 99 - 02:43 PM
Mo 10 Apr 99 - 04:03 PM
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Subject: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Don Meixner
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 05:39 PM

SPOILER WARNING! THIS MAY OFFEND SOME PEOPLE.

Rick,

I have a theory about why the Corries weren't/aren't taken seriously. Folk Music snobbery. Self appointed purist cops who feel that it better have bad diction and barely understood lyrics or it ain't folk music, peat ash in the bottom of the bottle or it ain't Scotch.

The are/were primarily vocalists. Although the late Roy Williamson was a fine musician, listen to what goes on in the background of No Man's Land, there work was a vocal history lesson. They were singing an oral tradition and telling the tale of Scotland at the same time.

There is a large contingent of people out there who views Celtic Music as strictly instrumental or if vocal, unaccompnaied. What tripe. There are great bands out there like the Battlefield Band, Silly Wizard, De Dannan, The Tannahill Weavers. But none of them are as near purely vocal as the Corries.

The Corries came about around the same time as the Clancy Bros and Tommy Makem ( also roundly ridiculed in Mudcat by some.) And if they were a little commercial I am not concerned. Without the Clancys and The Corries much of the Irish and Scottish music would either have been very late in coming to the U.S. or nevermade it here at all.

If I hadn't read of Tom Clancy's enjoyment of Joe Heany's singing, I probably would never have listened to Joe or known what Sean Nos singing was.

My first introduction to good vocal harmony was The Corrie Folk Trio and Paddie Bell. Listen to their version of The Jug of Punch from Their first Electra album to see what I mean. Listen the Corries do Jacobites By Name then Compare it Clan Na Gael's or Silly Wizard's (I think) and you'll find no comparison. Blazing instrumentality and mediocre voices are just that. But The Corries had the potential for both solid instruments and very fine vocals.

Ultimately their job was to entertain which they did quite well. Mugg to the crowd sing crowd pleasers and sing alongs, dress well and be consistent. Loch Lomond was something I heard my Mom sing and it was justa chestnut till I heard Roy Williamson do it on video. It became a new song to me and now its in my rep. Sing it with Fire In The Glen and its magic.

I am now called to dinner so my rant is done. I hope we are all still pals and I can be in your various gangs on your various playgrounds. If I am a fan boy geek it is only in regards to The Corries and Jack Kirby, King of Comics. Later all.

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 07:14 PM

Don, thanks for the feedback. Mentioned it to a trad friend the other day and she said "cause they wrote a lot of new lyrics to old songs" . That seems to be a big issue here, but boy, an awful lot of folks seem to have done the same thing. Sometimes it seems to me that if you're one of the "good guys/gals" like MacColl or Ritchie or Woody, nobody bats an eye. But folks who aren't part of a "particular" scene get flack. I know I would not have heard the McPeakes, had I not first heard the Clancys, and though I love much traditional Scottish music, I certainly appreciate what the Corries did. I know a well thought out arrangement when I hear one.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: SeanM
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 07:59 PM

Not necessarily the Corries, but I'll back you up on the Clancys... I especially love to hear people claim that they've 'ruined' songs by adding lyrics. In regards to the rebel songs, this is an especially humorous attack, as at least two of the brothers were in the IRA, and several family members have been involved in the 'troubles' at some point or another. How much more authentic can ya get? Sad to say, I've yet to really latch on to the more modern folkies, and haven't developed the deep appreciation of Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie that seem to run through most folkies... guess I'm stuck with the music of a while ago...

M


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 08:25 PM

Rick and Sean,

This all sorta returns to the Pete Seegar/pseudonymn thread that I enjoyed so much. Yes, The Corries and The Clancy's added lyrics and omitted some and refered to other sources frequently. Listen to Battlefield Band do MacPhersons Rant and to The Corries and The Clancy's version in turn. Is one better than another? I like them all. I heard The Clancy's first as Mac Pherson's Farewell. It's really a diferent song. As if it's a diferent Mac with the same fate. Battlefield Band does an amalgm of both versions. This the folk process plain and simple. Neither right nor wrong, just diferent. But look in their ass't songbooks or on the records and you'll always see proper identification of the sources for the songs. Johnny Lad appears to me to have been a satiracal broadside. The Corries would update the song to suit the times, more folk process at work and in keeping with the tradition of the style of the song.

A good friend of mine complains when lyrics are "Englished Up" from the old Gaelic. He says you lose the flavor of the song. I'm from Central new York with a CNY accent and I think its pretentious as hell to sing a song in a language I don't know with an accent I don't have ro an audience that won't understand what I'm doing any better than I. That shouldn't stop me from singing a song. You can English Up Cam Y'e O'er From France just enough for my Mom to understand it and not lose the flavor of the song.

Sean I know what you mean, in the 60's I was always invited to partys but I had to promise to my Trad Scotts and Irish records at home. I didn't date much.

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: colin j stewart
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 09:06 PM

Good point, well presented and argued...but no! At 33 I've played music since 8 years old. I won the ulster championships on the tin whistle at 17 and am now an accomplised flute/whistle player. I have also fronted several groups on guitar and leading focals. My first love in life is Irish folk & traditional music. Tell me the difference between Paul Bardy's early folk singing and that of the Corries....Its a difference in class. Folk music or even traditional music must change as time goes on.Young players become older players in time, but have the experience not only of folk or traditional music but outside influences of Rock, pop, jazz whatever. The trick, as our ancestors have done is moving it on to the next generation, but these days, in a way that the next generation will find exciting and uplifting and thus want to learn it. Would the corries inspire this...no..but did the Bothy Band, Moving Hearts, Paul Brady, Mary Bergin, De Dennan , Matt Molloy , Davy Spillane not inspire it....Believe me I've been their, my father sitting in the corner playing and singing to the Dubliners and people like the Corries did bugger all to inspire me, rather it put me off even going near folk or traditional music.! The corries to this day are crap and don't try to convine me in any way shape or form that they were anything else...they just jumped on a bann-wagon and ripped the backside out of it for commercial reasons. Music is a gift to pass on, but when you here people like the Corries it makes you cringe when you try to pass Folk or Tradional music on when it souds like crap. Folk music is what Dick Gaughan sings, modern people and modern problems. Who wants to sing about hunting herring and cobblers days, catch yourself on. Sorry for the strong views..but it's time to move on. Sorry for the strong views..give me a shout..Colin Stewart, Ballygally, Ireland..e-mail;

colinstewart@callnetuk.com

Slainte

Colin Stewart


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 09:36 PM

Colin,

I agree with everything you said except leaving the Corries and The Dubliners off your list. The didn't inspire you but they sure did me. With out Luke Kelly I never would have heard of Pecker Dunn. I'm not asking anyone to like The Corries, just don't discount them for the effect they had helping to bring trad Scotts music to a new level of visability (hearability) where others could pick it up and move on with it.

Anne Byrne sings Willie O' Winsbury very sweetly But Dick Gaughan SINGS it. Mary Black sing Men o' Worth very nicely but Archie Fisher makes me believe he knows what he is talkin about.

Do you mean Paul Brady, once of "The Johnstons" good singer but he didn't particularly blow my skirt. But the Johnstons did. They introduced me to Ewan Macoll in 1967.

Folk music is about history and history is about Hunting Herring and Cobbling, It's about men in arms and women taking a cannon over when husbands fall in battle. Folk music is about new people coming from Ireland to take jobs in New York that no self respecting New Yorker would touch. Folk music is about Miners going up in flames because the owners wouldn't put in gas vents. And children drowning in a sea of mud. Folk music is about people living on streets in every major city in the world. Its about eligance and as well as the tawdry side of life.

Folk music also very traditional as well as very new. We must remember that its not the song thats the tradition but the singing of the song is where the tradition lies.

We will never agree on this because we are arguing who has better taste and you know you can't win that kind of arguement.

Best regards to a good compadre .

Don Meixner


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 11:03 PM

Wow! Comparing the "Corries" and the "Dubliners" as if their musical skills and approach were similar. Gotta get my head around that one before I venture an opinion guys. Thanks for the feedback.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 11:06 PM

It did seem apples and oranges to mr too.

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Alex
Date: 09 Apr 99 - 11:41 PM

Without the Corries and bands like the Dubliners leading the charge in the early sixties, there wouldn't be a place for today's generation (like Dick Gaughan - a marvelous performer) to play. Only saw the Dubs once (had a great time) but I went to many Corries shows and was always entertained and left feeling good. They were corny at times but no more so than our own beloved Art Thieme. They had their own style and tended to play the larger theaters rather that the folk clubs, but I'd rather spend an evening with the Corries than sit in an English folk club listening to some conceited bore with one finger in his ear and the other up his ass sing 843 verses of "Robin Hood", mainly through his nose, no matter how authentic it was.. The Corries did a great deal to keep the Scottish folk revival going through the difficult 70's and deserve the respect of all folkies.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 12:29 AM

Eegad! Over the last 30 years, I've enjoyed the "Corries AND countless trad singers (both with and without occupied fingers.) I guess I'm not discriminating enough in some folk areas. Fortunately I discriminate like hell in other areas. Don't get me started on banal lyricists, folks who won't learn proper "F" chords, and SOME (only some) singer-songwriters, who perform their diary-entries at open stages.

It doesn't matter however, I've just been put in my place where it REALLY counts. Five minutes ago Heather appeared at the door and said "If your talking about Scottish music, don't forget to mention Andy Stewart!! (and she doesn't mean Andy M Stewart) Where do I start? Colin, can I introduce her to your Dad? I think I'll go listen to a Dick Gaughin tape.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From:
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 02:18 AM

Where do I begin? I have been into folk music since 1961 ( well really since 1949, mom told me that my first song sung was mule skinner blues.....still like it, by and by). Look folks, if someone varies on a rendition what harm is there? I love the Clancy Brothers, Corries and certainly Andy M. Stewart, hell, I can even handle the mistreatment Peter, Paul and Mary did to " Rising of the Moon". No one sings a song the same. A mother singing a lullaby to her babe may not know the same words her mother sang to her but the baby sleeps anyway. In regards to the younger person who spoke of the music having to grow, well I agree laddie,but eventually as you age you will appreciate the older version. In the meantime, have fun with it. I first heard "Wild Mountain Thyme" by the Byrds. I still like it but I like the traditional version better. Had I not heard the Byrds version I may never had heard the song at all. Please don't get locked into a mind set. Our first music came from our mouths and banging on things. We're stilling doing it the same way. Our folk music will survive, let's not destroy it by being to damn purist.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 07:26 AM

Great stuff

I think that there is a link between the Corries and the Dubliners. It is one of the period of which they were/are playing and the fact that in that time they both had a degree of commercial sucess.

Which is probably the main reason why the Corries are not "taken seriously". at least on the UK side of the pond. Here to 'suceed' in producing folk music that is popular is probably the worst possible crime.

The same can also be said for Ralph McTell, who despite still producing great songs and being one of the best 'Ragtime' and blues guitar players I have seen, has never been forgiven, by some for the sucess of 'Streets Of London.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: murray@mpce.mq.edu.au
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 08:41 AM

I am reminded of the story Buell Kazee told in some interview. He was making some records for the "hillbilly" line of some company and he was told he was not country enough. They requested that he use sloppier pronounciation and grammer. (It seems he did, because he did make the records--I for one am glad.)

Murray


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: AlistairUK
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 10:14 AM

You know, i'm thirty three. I started singing in clubs when I was 17 or so. Why? cos I'd been listening to The Dubs, The Clancys ( Four Green Fields has been a staple of mine for years and it still sends a shiver down my spine when I hear it), Pentangle, Steeleye, Simon and Garfunkle and the Corries. Then I started getting into the other musicians such as June Tabor, Dick gaughan, the Watersons ad nauseum or etc or whatever. Then I started being a folk snob and saying that the Corries and The Clancys where crap, then I grew up. This is folk music people ( folk= people) it means getting down a few jars and laughing crying, complainin', listening to a few tunes and maybe having a bit of a bop. Where does anyone get off being so damned precious. Yeah the history and background of songs is cool, and good to know, it's interesting. But it ain't the history that makes the song, or who has the right version..it's the feeling that you put into it. I have seen some blinding singers who have stuck their all into a set one night, and another time have been crap, why? Because they didn't feel like it that night or they were tired of that particular song. The Corries et al. were primarily people who sang songs to entertain folks (us)and they did it damn well.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Lucius
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 10:14 AM

I have to agree in principle, my first encounter with "folk" music was that of the Kingston Trio and the Brothers Four.

Just to cast a broader net, why isn't Michael Flatelry (sp?) taken seriously. I don't think of myself as an elitist, but I'm revolted by what Riverdance is passing off as irish step dance. Still, people are learning step dancing like never before.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 02:43 PM

"riverdance" is a Broadway style show, meant to appeal to a middle of the road audience who will now include the soundtrack album with the rest of their collection of Sinatra, Streisand, Celine Dion etc. Nothin' wrong with that. They're not folkies and never will be....BUT maybe 1 out of a thousand will like it so much they might go to an Irish pub for the first time and hear a "Clancy-Dub" band singing "Black Velvet Band" and that might cause 'em to buy a Chieftans album, which might lead to..........before you know it, we got us a "Folkie", who then might accidently find the "mudcat", and be totally perplexed at who the "Corries" are, and why they aren't taken seriously. It doesn't matter. By then we've got em hooked!!

P.S. If it weren't for "Riverdance", I'd never have believed that Irish step-dancers could float so long and so high in the air! (do I have to say "grin" now?)


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Mo
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 04:03 PM

Bitchy comment this - but Michael Flately takes himself so seriously it isn't really necessary for anyone else to! (Miaow!) As for The Corries et al - maybe they just aren't "in" at the moment. It wasn't cool to say you liked ABBA in the 80's, now their music has been re-assessed and it's trendy to like them again. What goes around comes around, so it might be cool to like the Corries again soon. Certainly they seem to have been an influence on a good many people in the 'Cat - including me.

Mo


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Penny
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 04:39 PM

A year ago (or was it two?) the BBC trailled Michael Flatley's program with the announcement "This Easter, Michael Flatley IS the Lord of the Dance!" or something very similar. But not for long.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 09:44 PM

Well here goes. I love dancing, esp. large groups correographed in unison. I don't care if it is trad or not. I loved watching the Gold Diggers on the Dean Martin show.

I know Flatley's dancing is not true trad. I think a great many people do, including himself. I, too, think he is arrogant etc., but I happened to catch part of an interview of him and he freely admits that he didn't like what he considered the confines of what his teachers taught and that he felt the urge to create his own combo. So, in a way, he is doing the "tradional thing" as it is always changing, etc.

He also worked hard to get where he is, just as a lot of us have. I agree that because of his program, perhaps somebody will be attracted to learn about the 'real" stuff and then there will be no holding them back.

I admire him just for being that athletic at his age! And, to do what he does, in presenting those shows, he would have to have a pretty good opinion of himself and his abilities.

katlaughing of varied tastes


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Apr 99 - 11:53 PM

Hello All,

When I started this thread I was hoping for opinions. I guess I got a few. Including some vitriol. Thank you all who see my point so clearly. Thank you all as well who disagree but stand and debate without malice. That I like and appreciate The Corries is enough for me. Its most grand that some of you do as well. And its just fine if you don't think they are you various cups of tea. This and the related threads of Pete Seegar's Pseudonym, Lock Tay, and Stroke Folks have fascinated me greatly and I appreciate the discussion.

Warmest Regards

Don Meixner


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tucker
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 11:16 AM

anytime Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Pete M
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 11:36 PM

Well Don to be truthful I wasn't quite sure why you had started this thread, but I suppose some of the responses have provided the answer. Certainly in folk music there is as wide a range of styles and abilities as in any other field of human endeavour, and as wide a range of commercial success and popular acclaim. One thing I think is certain, there is no correlation between commercial success and ability, and unfortunately there does seem to be an inverse relationship between it and approbation by adherents of the genre. However that does not mean that the inverse is true and that anyone who has any commercial success is bad.

I would agree that folk music is constantly developing, and will absorb influences from other fields, but I would suggest that Colin Stewart has his direction inversed, Jazz, Rock and even pop music derives essentially from various folk styles. That is not to say there is not a two way flow, just pointing out the main direction. I suspect that the reason I like the Corries and feel obliged to argue with Colin is that, like Don, it is the words and singing that I appreciate most, some of those on your list Colin may be technically excellent musicians, but I would go a long way not to have to sit through their performance which frankly bore the pants off me.

I would also have to take issue with Colin on the issue of "ripping off" the system. Given your age Colin, you obviously weren't around during the great folk disaster, but in your terms the Corries, Clancys and Dubliners, Seeger, Guthrie, MacColl etc all ripped off the system, and if one wishes to be cynical, then all the people you mention could be accused of continuing to do so by allowing themselves to be marketed under the "Celtic" lablel. Hell, I even remember Dick Gaughan when he was a folk singer, before he started ripping off the system by writing his own stuff.

Each to his own Colin, I'm pleased that you have strong views and are prepared to argue them, I don't particularly want to convert you, but just be aware that your arguments can as easily be applied to those you laud.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Don Meixner
Date: 11 Apr 99 - 11:56 PM

Hello Pete,

Why did I start this thread? In the Lock Tay thread a poster who I won't name but his initials are Rick Fielding mentioned hecouldn't understand why The Corries were so often maligned. Being as I am a Corries fan boy geek I decided to start this thread separately form the Lock Tay thread to answer his question and hopefully make a point or two re: The Corries and my views of trad folk in general. It sort of took on a life of it's own.

I have traded E-Mail with Colin privately and I find he is quite willing to help me with my whistle aspirations. He is as generous with his time as he is with his opinion. Both are attributes that I respect.

Warmest Regards

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 02:29 AM

Don indeed took my one line about those happy, pickin' singin' Corries and made it front page news. So I've had a lot of fun that I didn't start. Colin didn't worry me a bit telling me that they were "crap, crap, crap"! His dad and I must stand firm. I have, on the other hand decided to delete from my repertoire all songs pertaining to herring and cobbling and perhaps even kipling. Thanks Don.(and Colin)


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 07:20 AM

I, on the other hand, have never Kipled

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 07:56 AM

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it, Don! I've kipled with the best of 'em, and I know! A lot of RK's "barrack-room" stuff was written to fit a tune, and based on first-hand accounts got from the men who'd been my lads and seen my lads (whoops - that's Leslie Mitchell!). Remove the crap cockeny accent and you've got a decent song. Read "Danny Deever" or "Snarleyow" or - yes! - "Gunga Din".

Steve


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: AndyG
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 08:36 AM

This is the only kipling I've ever done. (to a tune by Peter Bellamy I'm led to believe).
Good song it is too.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: John Nolan
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 08:34 PM

I have to agree strongly with Don Meixner in his praise of the Corries and Paddy Bell after first seeing them in concert in Edinburgh in 1962. Their stage presence was electrifying and their range of material was phenomenal...and included tremendous versions of popular ballads like Huntingtower (see Child 232 appendix). And to hear 50,000 voices singing Williamson's Flower O' Scotland over the terraces of Hampden Park...whatdya want from folk music, if you don't enjoy folk singing it? Perhaps those people above who mentioned the word "snobbery" may be on to something. Same with the Clancys and Tommy Makem. They have done enormous work in keeping songs alive, and Makem has passed the same love of singing and preservation onto his sons. I should know...happily drunk and bawling out songs in Conor Makem's kitchen with the rest of the gang a couple of weeks ago. And from learning his first song - The Little Beggar Man - at the age of three, sixty years on Tommy is still doing amazing stuff. I highly recommend Ancient Pulsing, (Red Biddy Records, Dover NH) If you think these fellows are resting on their laurels, listen to just one track - Pegusus...Patrick Cavanagh's poem, read by Tommy, with Aine Minogue's harp and his own whistle as backing. The Corries, the Clancys and the Makems dull and passé? Only to jaded ears.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 99 - 11:42 PM

Andy G. Thanks for the link to your "kipling". My dad raised us on him and it's always nice to see some more and appreciation of his works.

I enjoyed your site also.

katlaughing


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Don Meixner
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 01:09 AM

Actually, I was going for the cheap laugh. You probably cn't guess from my other comments in this thread that I also like my poems to rhymn. Rudyard Kipling was first shown to me in the Robert Heinlein novels and in Trouble on Titan ,author escapes me. The frontice piece was the opening stanza of the Ballad of East and West. I first read Kim when I was 12. Kipling still amazes me. Gordon Bok sings the poem The Seawife to a tune I can now barely recall but RK's imagery in that piece is still gripping.

" And whether they lose to the naked knife or win their hearts desire, It all goes back to the weary wife who nods beside the fire."

I am also a Banjo Patterson, Robert Service, Noyes, Causley, Clarke, and Harte fan. But hell, you all probably guessed that by now.

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Pete M
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 01:27 AM

Ah Don, that sounds like another "why" thread. "Why hasn't Causley been made Poet laureate?"

And by the way project Gothenburg has all of Kiplings poems available and downloadable.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 03:39 AM

James K Stephen, who was probably Jack the Ripper, wrote a poem railing against modern popular fiction which concluded with the line "Till the Rudyards cease from Kipling and the Haggards ride no more."

You can also find the complete Kipling poems at ths site.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: BK
Date: 13 Apr 99 - 09:17 PM

Fell into this; simply say I appreciate the Corries - and Schooner Fare - & many others not at all purists. Got my first comprehensable version of "Coulter's Candy" from the Corries, & glad to understand the words, I was... Damn glad. Thought they were great

Cheers, BK


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 03:28 AM

"Coulter's Candy" - an early example of crass commercialism intruding into folk song!

Steve


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Ewan McV (inactive)
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 06:32 PM

I claim to be the Scots and possibly the world expert on Coulter's Candy, which turns out to be first cousin to Johnny Johnston took a notion For to cross the raging sea sometimes claimed for Liverpool but with a more complex pedigree. I have visited Robert Coultart's house in Galashiels where he probably made his hard candy in the 1870s, and found several old verses not in the Digital Tradition text. Turns out he he a brain tumour, that's why he went around singing in a happily disinhibited way, and got all the kids following him about. Any minute now there's a 30 minute documentary on Japanese TV about the song and the man. Am I not a self-satisfied little researcher? Ewan


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: BK
Date: 14 Apr 99 - 09:33 PM

I often introduce "Coulter's Candy" as an early example of child oriented advertising. Still love it...

Ewan: Did you get any notion at all about what ingredients his candy was made with? I would not be surprised if the candy were made from black-strap (or some kind of) molasses, and might have contained nutrients not usually found in the diets of children from poor families. (Assuming poor children could afford to buy the candy in the first place.)

An Australian friend also gave me some other verses. I presume there is the usual plethora of variations on this typical folk song.

Cheers, BK


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: skw@worldmusic.de
Date: 15 Apr 99 - 03:48 AM

And don't forget the lively correspondence that ensued when Norman Buchan printed 'Coulter's Candy' in the Weekly Scotsman in 1959 (I think). People from all over the world sent in verses they'd learnt in their youth. Very interesting! - Susanne


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 Apr 99 - 01:27 PM

Could you elaborate on that for me? Is that a reference to the 'Johnny Notions' that I know of?

We lived in Eshaness, in Shetland, where at a place called Hamnavoe there was a run down 'butt and ben' with a plaque on the wall, saying that this was the birthplace of one 'Johnny Notions'. I can't remember all of it but it was to the effect that this chap was responsible for inventing cures and potions and he left the islands, and obtained some fame. Or were there 'Johnny Notions' everywhere?

Is it worth starting a new thread on the subject?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Ewan McV (inactive)
Date: 15 Apr 99 - 06:09 PM

Re Coulter's Candy - it was flavoured with aniseed, and was hard enough that he could stamp his name on each piece, so it was not what Scots call tablet, and was I think a kind of hard toffee.

Re the Weekly Scotsman, Norrie Buchan drew on that for his version of CC in 101 Scots Songs, but I've not yet checked out the newspaper file direct.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 09:53 AM

I am restarting this thread after looking through this load upon load of crap. The Corries and the Dubliners--two of the most well-known and sucsessful bands in their fields. Could that be the problem ye of little talent have with these guys? And by the way, who is it that doesn't take these guys seriously anyway? People who could get up on a stage and entertain a crowd for 2 seconds? Why don't all of you who "don't take these guys seriously" get together and pat each other on the back as you're jobbing yourself off.

Your Friend


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 10:00 AM

Whatever happened to Paddie Bell?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 10:33 AM

I know this is an old thread but I am curouis about what seems to be Rick and Don suggesting that the Dubliners had little musical tallent. I will agree that a lot of their music is rough and ready but IMO Barney McKenna is a fine tenor banjo player and John Sheehan is an equally good fiddler. I think that John Sheehan has also written some nice tunes. The Marino Waltz and Christchurch are 2 that I think are his.

Re the respect bit, I respect them all. In my case, it was the Clanceys and the Dubiners that got me interested in folk music. Thinking of another current thread, it could have been Dylan for somebody else. I doubt that any of us are going to like every perfomer but I think we should all apprecaite that they all got people interested in folk music and should at leat be respected for that.

Jon


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 01:55 PM

Jon,

My friend , please reread everything that I said on this thread, I think you greatly misunderstand my opinion of the The Dubliners and The Corries. It could be that you, a speaker of English, and me a speaker of Americanish just have a diferent dialect to over come. :-)


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:01 PM

Ewan, you might want to get in touch with Murray on Saltspring regarding your extra verses of Coulters Candy as well. He was very interested in the version that my grandmother brought over to Canada ca.1910, which also had no mention of "Coulter" in it. He is currently working on a book of Scottish Bairn Songs.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:04 PM

Ewan, would you also be familiar with a ditty that she sang called Wee McGregor?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:12 PM

Yes Don, have done, I don't think this was a lanuague one. It was simply caused by me trying to read a thread too quickly - scanning it to get the jist and am a little biased on this one to start of with because I often feel that insrumental musical abilites of at least the 2 I mentioned is too often ignored... Sorry

Jon


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Metchosin
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:13 PM

Gee, I didn't notice that this was an old thread and Ewan hasn't posted anything since last May...too bad....


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Calach
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 03:58 PM

The Corries were the inspiration to many thousands of young folk singers in the celtic world.
Without them and people like them; Dubliners, Spinners, Robin Hall & Jimmy McGregor etc there wouldn't be as many people like me and folk like me singing folk music today.
They are simply part of the root of the tree which is Celtic folk music today.
Calach (Edinburgh Folk Singer/Songwriter)


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 04:39 PM

The Clancy Brothers do a version of "51st Highland Division's Farewell to Sicily" in which the lyrics have been changed enough to alter the meaning of the song and rip the guts out - to me, at least. I don't get offended anymore, I just go look for the song the way it used to be. It's like watching a good movie, like Braveheart, which is very inaccurate from an historical point of view. You just enjoy it for what it is, and go learn the facts later. I'm not familiar with the Corries, but the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem introduced me to an awful lot of songs and I've enjoyed their music.

Regarding the snobbery issue. I've encounterd it in myself and loads of other people. We like our community small, and there's a tendency to "dis" anyone who starts selling a lot of records or gets played on commercial radio stations. We dismiss great songs, simply because everybody knows them. For some, folk music isn't what folk sing, it's what only folksingers sing.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: kendall
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 04:58 PM

I'm glad someone mentioned Schooner Fare. Chuck and Tom did backup on my tape, Beginners Luck. They are good friends of mine, and I hear some nrgative crap about them being too commercial also. Bollox!! they are great guys and they entertain me. Nuff said. The Corries? I have a pile of their tapes, and I dont give a rats ass who doesnt like them...I do.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Bradypus
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 06:17 PM

One thing I like about the Mudcat is that the Corries are taken seriously, as demonstrated by this, and at least one other recent thread.

Bradypus


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 05:53 PM

Bud, In answer to your qestion, Paddie Bell is alive and well and living in Edinburgh, still singing and hosts a show in the Edinburgh Fringe Festival every year. I phone her from Florida every month to catch up with the latest gossip from Edinburgh. She is a wonderful person, and venerated by everyone in the Scottish Folk scene.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Bud Savoie
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 06:23 PM

Thanks for the info about Paddie Bell, Murray. I thought she was a fine singer, and provided guitar and banjo backup for the Corrie Folk Trio, as it was called in those days. And Paddie was a treat for the eyes as well. I think the group made two albums, both listenable and fun. Paddie was, in a sense, the Tommy Makem of the group. Next time you speak with her, tell her a quiet Yank fan from way back when was asking for her. Did she ever cut any other albums with/without the Corries?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 06:38 PM

Bud,

Go to the Corries Page, (search: Gavin Browne) Paddie Bell has some recent stuff available from Corries merchandise. Also she recorded at least one album wth Eddie and Finbar Furey years back called "I Know Where I'm Going." I think only two albums stateside with the Trio ( Ronnie Browne, Roy Williamson, Bill Smith)

There was only one album after Paddie left the group as a trio and then The Corries as a dur was formed. There is a more concise history at The Corries page.

Don Meixner


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Bugsy
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 08:57 PM

I take my Corries very seriously.

Although I find the Vindaloo's a little hard to take.

CHeers

Bugsy


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:58 PM

Thanks, Don, that is exactlywhat I was looking for.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,StevenC
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 06:56 AM

Like a few other contributors, I hadn't noted that this was a revived oldish thread, but anyway...

I went to see the Corries a few times, as a kid, and in my teens and twenties I became ...ummm... snobbish about them becuase they were a bit showbizzy..

And as more than one post has rightly said, being successful and appealing to the public is a pretty unpardonable sin in some UK folk circles.

One thing to note about the Corries is that during the Sixties and Seventies, they'd fill halls throughout the UK, playing traditional folk... with guest acts like the Chieftains..

They opened a lot of doors. And despite that fact that as a Scot, I'm almost wishing that "Flower of Scotland" had never been written.. (it's not a great national anthem, really..) I'm grateful for the Corries... they taught me alot of songs and brought me to a lot of singers I'd never otherwise have encountered...

Cheers M'Dears

StevenC


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Troll
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:26 AM

Thanks for expressing it so well, SteveC. One thing the "more trad than thou" crowd repeatedly forgets is the debt that is owed on both sides of the Atlantic to groups like the Corries, the Dubliners and ,yes, the Kingston Trio. They opened the doors for those who followed them.

troll


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: AndyG
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 07:53 AM

SteveC,
RE: The Unpardonable Sin.
I feel that one of the things that the folk audience notices about success is the disappearance of the "famous" from normal view. That is, when a performer/band achieves fame they find themselves locked into the Recording/Major Venue/Festival circuit and their local "club" appearances stop. This "prices them out of the market" for many of the followers they had and reduces the frequency with which they are seen.
Remembering that big stages require a complete change in presentation for the performer, and filling a large venue means finding a big audience, it's a short step from "disappointment" to "sell-out" for the aggrieved original audience.

Personally I know of many widely popular performers that I would regret losing from the club circuit. I currently get to see them live in the intimate surroundings of a club venue, about once every 18 - 24 months, at a price I can afford. Should they withdraw from that I'll still have the chance to see them, at about he same frequency but for three times the price!

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Abby Sale
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 08:36 AM

If Beethoven or Haydn happened to write some commercial treatments for Scottish songs - and those treatments became popular, even though, for example, they changed the mood, meter, scansion of the songs & thus, say, forced new lines to be written to accomodate - and if those treatments ultimately lead many to delve into and appreciate trad Scottish material - you still wouldn't consider Beethoven or Haydn as 'folk musicians.' They, like Broadway producers or romance novelists, were just using the material to launch projects. "Oklahoma" may be a great show - vaguely based on folk - but it ain't folk.

The Corries was a commercial group and aimed its material & style on a Scottish TV-watching audience. That was intentional & successful. They were excellent at what they did but were quite clear about the difference between this and tradition.

Roy (I never knew Ronnie) was, in fact, a superb musician and very knowledgeable of Scottish (and, I believe, Irish) trad. His private playing and singing was wonderful. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But The Corries, playing the same songs, bored me silly. Just a couple of guys smiling & strumming like any other commercial group. Some of these groups were talented but the style never interested me.

I'll name drop with a little story, if I may. Well, you reminded me of this! There we were at Blair fest. in 1966 or 7. All drunk, ye ken, as was fitting for the time & place. A friend introduced me Roy & I said oh, yeah - hi. Friend said He's a Corrie. What's a Corrie? says I. Says Roy, it's a kind of garbage collector.

Today, I'm not totally sure he was kidding. We got to know each other a little &, as I said, he was a fine musician. Could do a hell of a "Lark in the Morning" on pennywhistle. That was the song I'd ask people to do on their (non-pipes) instrument of choice. Not easy.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 10:27 AM

I used to enjoy seeing the Corries,perhaps once a year for a few years in the late 60s early 70s and still enjoy their records but I was taken aback once when we saw them twice on the same tour. They did the same songs in the same order with the same introductions and jokes. It sounded very spontaneous - if you hadn't heard it before. Whereas the Spinners, whose records annoyed me by repeating many of the same songs, always seemed to vary their live content, even if you saw them twice in quick succession.
RtS


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:11 PM

Jeezus Jon! Glad you went back and READ all the verbiage! My swollen record collection has lots of Corries AND Dubliners in it. Didn't mean to imply that one group was more "talented" than the others. Only that the "skills" were used in different ways. Roy was an amazingly adept technical musician and many Corries arrangements reflected this. I never saw them in person. I DID however see the Dubliners a couple of times and they were hugely entertaining...but also sloppy in their approach to tuning, playing the same chords (as each other) and on intros and endings. Lotsa off-key singing as well. I had a great time....but...I also appreciate tight singing, original arrangements, and great picking.(you're right about Barney in the Dubs though. When I saw them they weren't using a fiddler though)

Caught the Clancy Bros. at least 5 times, and to tell the truth I got totally bored with the same songs, same jokes, same intros etc. Maybe had Tommy M. stayed, they'd have learned a few new songs.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Mbo
Date: 06 Mar 00 - 12:28 PM

Well, I haven't had the time to read all these posts, but I'd just like to say that I LOVE the Corries, as well as the Clancy Brothers. If it weren't for them, I would not be here talking to you folks. The Corries' "Wild Mountain Thyme" is THE version, I don't care what anyone else thinks. And also, I ADORE "Flower of Scotland," even if some believe it to be junk. Here it comes Spaw--CORRIES RULE!!

--Mbo


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,aussie
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 10:38 PM

first heard the corries in 1976 and my whole body tingled with pride and fire this was a duo singing the songs of our land with pride and patrioism(think i spelled that wrong)i still get that feeling when i listen to them today Idon't think there will ever be another scots act who could ever sound as powerful as them (well thats only my opinion)long live folk music from the corries to dylan i love it all


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 12:57 AM

Aussie,


AS I listen to their live recordings I wonder how two men with two instruments were able to develop so much music and so much vocal power. Had to have been ability or something like it.

And you are right I think. " When will we see their like again."

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 01:39 AM

Until recently, thought the Cories were a one-album wonder around '80. Westerin' Home. Only time I've heard it. 'S great. Gotta dig up that vinyl.

But in North America, as Dick Gaughan says, the ex-Scots try to live as far apart from each other as they possibly can. There's no huge market for all things Scottish here. And that, I guess, is why hardly anyone's heard of the Cories. 'Course, they were probably more succesful than Dick Gaughan, who is great in concert, but of whom I heard more than one person say: he's supposed to be good? but he spends so much time talking and I can't understand him!

I wonder: why are people so proud that they don't enjoy what others find pleasant? No Clancy Brothers for me, thank you, and yes, I toss and turn all night if a pea is placed under my mattress. Goofs.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:09 AM

The Corries had their faults. They weren't "purists"; altered metre, melody and sometimes lyrics to suit their own ends [taste or commerce!]They were brilliant musicians, and superb entertainers. Ilove 'em; "Sound the Pibroch" has been in my car cassette player for the past week!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,JB
Date: 10 Apr 04 - 02:59 PM

Guest Nick, for me, you have hit it exactly on the head.

Unfortunately there are an awful lot of smart-asses out there who love to put other artists down. Much of this I believe has to do with jealousy.

Can they do it themselves and have they been successful?

I am particularly referring to Colin J Stewart who claims he became an Uslter Champion at 17 and fronted several groups on guitar and lead vocals. That might be all true, but I have never heard of you and until I do hear some of your music I shall reserve judgement. Besides this does not give you the right to make such an attack on these very respected artists.

Furthermore, I can tell you as an experienced musician of over thirty years, one never speaks about other musicians in such derogatory terms on a public forum. You sound like a snotty little brat to me and the Corries have never deserved such ill-mannered comments.If you were someone who had a proven record, I might at least try to understand where you are coming from.

JB


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Flash Company
Date: 11 Apr 04 - 10:32 AM

Golly, what a lot of words!
Just a couple of things to throw in, I've always tried to respect the original words of any song I've sung, and certainly not changed words to take a song out of context. However, the words are not, and should not be, set in aspic. They evolve, it's called the folk process.
I suspect if we could go back to the days of families singing round the fire in an evening, we would find that every family had their own version of almost any traditional song you could mention, I seem to remember a collosal number of verions of Barbara Allan.

FC


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Ian Blacklaw Richardson
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 04:01 PM

I'm just so glad that the Corries can still raise peoples' emotions after all these years. They were GREAT ENTERTAINERS! But they also inspired a lot of people to get into folk music and delve into its traditions and write in the folk idiom. It'a all a bit airy-fairy going on about whether they were really folk-artists. without the Corries most folk in Scotland would never have been exposed to the Border Ballads and Burns' love songs.
    I knew and had the good fortune to work with Roy and he was a damned fine musician and very knowledgeable about Scottish folk tradition. I also loved the Dubliners though most of the time, I think they would admit this, they were , as we say half-cut, but never did it stop them giving a good performance. It was a way of life and they thrived on it.
    In conclusion I would like us all to raise a glass and toast "The Corries, for ever!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 04:25 PM

Ian,

Rah!

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 12:06 AM

I know why they're not taken seriously in Scotland anyway- it's the Scottish cringe. We hear The Corries singing about patriotism and saying 'ken' and 'och aye' and whilst one part of us goes, 'YAY!, another parts shudders and think, ' oh for f***s sake, tartan again....'. I like them anyway! And i'm only partly ashamed to admit it.
Purism is, quite frankly, boring beyond belief. Absorb, assimilate, invent, you know? Pick up influences wherever. Doesn't matter if they're wearing tweed or safety pins, it's a matter of learning all you can from whoever you respect, and taking that knowledge and letting it evolve into something new and fresh. That doesn't mean that singing songs as they are without adding something of yourself to them (if, indeed, that is possible) can't be entertaining or valuable, even if it is just for the sake of preservation - just that there is something to be said for being more creative with them, too. That's my opinion, anyway.
And i have an objection to people saying 'you'll understand when you're older'...when i'm you're age, you'll still be older than me , and you'll still be able to say 'wait till you're my age and you'll realise.' It's an unfair advantage, man! :)


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Betsy
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 01:12 PM

They were - of their own time - to put Folk on the TV in the 60's they were probably required by producers etc. to project themselves in a diffrent way than they would on an ordinary stage . Selling the idea of Folk on TV must have been difficult when you had the likes of Jinmmy Shand / Andy Stewart etc.
Let 'em be , as much as I have come to dislike the song ,they carved their name in Scottish culture with Flower of Scotland - watch the next big Scottish sporting occasion - they'll all be singing it. My dislike is mostly driven by having heard it sang halfway through by inebriated Scots who either didn't know or had forgotten all the words.
There is certainly no criticism of the Writer/Performers of the song .
They have made an invaluable contribution to Scottish and to British music and don't deserve a hard time.
Release of their records - doubled the repetoire of many a floor singer.
I write as a true blooded Englishman who takes and took the Corries seriously and takes his hat off to them.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 01:30 PM

Every country had their own version of the Corries (or rather of the Corrie Folk Trio).

Ireland had the Clancy Brothers, America had the Kingston Trio, England had the Spinners, and Australia had Rolf Harris.

All good stuff and all contributing to the cause ...


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 07:21 PM

I lived in the Borders of Scotland in the early 70's and they came around doing the small halls - Galashiels was one. They were magic and deserve every accolade.

Dave Eyre


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 09:17 PM

I've just been reading all these comments and felt obliged to add my bit.
I was just looking up the chords and lyrics to some old Corries songs and came across this site.
I heard the Corries sing Shoals of Herring and Hills of Ardmorn on an old radio about an hundred years ago and haven't been able to get the sound out of my head since then. I've done a lot of searching over time and have just resorted to the internet to get the real words... I copied the ones I have by playing an old tape over and over until I caught the words. I found the chords myself. Let me just say that for me hearing the Corries' beautiful harmony's and the passion they put into their music grabbed me all those years ago and I've just never forgotten it. That's all. Eva, Bowen Island.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 11:28 PM

a lot or the embarrasing cringing grown up culture shite i hated back in the 60's and 70's..

i've now grown up and matured enough to seriously love and appreciate now i'm knocking on 50..

.. so is it also time for a revisionist reappraisal
of Fred Wedlock


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 12:51 AM

It is very nice to see I can start a thread that has legs.

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 12:54 AM

The Corries were very very good, both good singers and talented instrumentalists................just a pity about the feckin awful naff clothes they wore, what was that all about ?

eric


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tam the man
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 07:20 AM

how many of the groups that you mentioned Colin have written a unoffical anthem for Scotland or Ireland I'll tell you none.

So don't rubbish the Corries, I heard Paul Brady I thought what a load of crap, if it wasn't for the corries or the dubliners or the spinners, Paul brady prberly wouldn't be in the folk music business and neither would any of the other 'folk group's' that you mentioned.

Tam


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tam the man
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 08:30 AM

What about the Clancy brothers and Tommy Makem with their aranknits ans if they were real they would be stinking well smeely at least.

Wild rover no more


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 08:36 AM

Floo'er O Scotlnd

need I say more?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,andymac
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 09:57 AM

I am very much someone who was introduced to folk music by the Corries and Ewan McColl and then Dick Gaughan too: and glad of all I have learned from each of them.
I heard the Dubliners on vinyl and thought they sounded a bit plastic at the time but I've revised that as I have learned more about them and their sources.
Luke Kelly's version of "Tramps and Hawkers" is one of the best I've ever heard but then again the best, in my opinion, I ever heard was a man called Archie Frame sing it in a session in Killin one year. He put everything into it. Never heard of him? My point is just that, who needs "stars"?

Similarly, there is an oft repeated comment about commerciality abd the assumed lack of integrity it involves. I have no issue with comerciality if it leads people into folk music too- it shouldn't be a one way street; although I'm aware that it can create a distance between the "stars" and the audience. I prefer smaller gatherings with more intimacy and less of a division between those who perform and those who "just listen".

However, I would finish this meandering nonsense by pointing out one of my fondest memories of just how blurred the lines really are between the comercial singers/singer-songwriters/adaptive artists ets and what some would refer to as the "purists" (aka folk police, snobs etc...of which I have been accused of membership on more than one occasion).

Anyway.. John Watt, (if you don't know him; he's a singer from Fife-wrote the "Keltie Clippy" and "Pittenweem Jo" and is known for comic songs mostly) at the Auchtermuchty Festival a few years ago..

In a session he sang "The Kielder Hunt" and it literally (not metaphorically) made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up... I knew that John had known Willie Scott the great Border singer very well. I could hear Willie in the singing, I could hear the respect, the depth of tradition that was in the song. I defy anyone to tell me that that wasn't traditional singing in the most "purist" sense of the word...

In which case, whose definitions are these and are they that important after all? As long as we enjoy the songs/tunes and singers/instrumentalists and are as passionate about it as this thread has been.


andymac


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tam the man
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 12:36 PM

As I said if it wasn't for the corries/dubliners/spinners/clancy brothers and tommy makem you never have got Paul Brady Colin


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tam the man
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 12:21 PM

I wonder Colin stewart is doing now, not much


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,punkfolrocker
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 01:44 PM

anyway.. what about 'The Yetties' ??

i have the vaguest of memories of them always being on the tv
back when i was a boy no taller than a cider barrel..


were they ever respected and taken seriou by 'real' folkies..????

is it now worth risking a few quid on a compilation CD
to hear what they sounded like..?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tam the man
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 03:23 PM

I like the yetties, I just wonder what happenedto them.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Surreysinger
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 04:59 PM

They're still going.... when I was down in Sherborne in July the Tourist Information Office had details of their Music Club, and their CD's were on sale in pride of place in the local music shop. Must admit that I haven't seen them in action myself since the 1970's but I've spoken to quite a few who have.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 08:38 PM

The Yetties were on at Sidmouth Folk Week this year, though not, I think, all of the original members. The Wurzels were another West Country favourite group, even after Adge Cutler died prematurely: I have a CD where thay finish up with a send-up of disco tricks in a "different" version of "Combine Harvester".
Sorry, thread drift: I also love the Corries' music, "Dark Lochnagar" being a favourite. Sadly, as in another thread, Paddie Bell is no longer with us, but the music lives on. I got a double album CD which included one she did with Finbar Furey, which is superb.
TB


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 10:33 PM

Can anyone tell me if there is a listing of records (vynil) or CD's of The Corries?
I found in a charity Shop a vynil LP "The Very Best of The Corries", marked with a label "Factory Sample. Not For Sale".
It is produced by EMI and is numbered EMC 3114. It appears to date from 1971/3.
I would like to know if it is a normal production line or is it a "one-off"
Colyn.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 05:00 AM

There is no discography on their website, run by Ronnie's son, Gavin. He pointed me to this discography. Or try Nigel Gatherer's website.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 05:35 AM

Oops, the Nigel Gatherer address was an old one. He's now got his own domain. This will hake you to The Corries section.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 05:26 PM

Cod was that Susanne? Just looked at my keyboard and h is a long way from t! But thanks for the link!
TB


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 17 Sep 05 - 07:26 PM

TB, C is a lot further from G than T from H! So, one more example of cod criticism from you and I'll put the outdated link back ...


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 04:59 PM

Darnop?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 04:47 PM

Precisely, Tattie!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 08:37 PM

Some few of us have been lucky enough to have outlived our own context and now we have the luxury to look back and see that we possibly did a few things correctly---. A lot like life itself---bittersweet.

Art


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 01:44 AM

I have always been a Corries fan---but as I have said afore, they have their faults. Sorry Tattie Bogle---but one of their biggest calamities in my opinion was their rendition of Byron's "Loch Nagar".
You can almost hear the "clippety-clop" of yon false country hoofbeats-----
Boab


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:30 AM

Popularism and Commercialism has always been anathema to the 'Purist' folkie ! However , the Corries and the Spinners and the Yetties AND the Dubs and Clancys introduced a hell of a lot of people to at least a FORM of Folk music , and gave them a start into REAL Folk !!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Leadfingers
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 06:31 AM

Oh and by the way , 100 !!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 05:32 AM

I think it was the leather waistcoat things they wore, which was strangely at variance with the nylon strung guitars sound.

A couple of chunky butch Scottish blokes, dressed in leather and with apparently the same target audience as The Spinners.

They had the misfortune to be around at a time when the generation war was at fever pitch, and they were a part of television schedules that your parents were locked into.

Much of the music is great. But we all have a historical context to live in. they made the deals they felt were of best advantage to their music - as we all do. it's tough getting it right.

I remember reading an interview a few years ago with the great Johnny MacEvoy. The interviewer was asking why his career hadn't gone as well and his back catalogue was in the two quid budget range, whilst people are knocking each other down to pay ten quid and over for Christy Moore stuff. I think Johnny put it down to bad decisions.

You could ask a similar question about The Corries and say Martin Carthy. Of course with The Corries illness and death intervened and played its part.

I think civilians would be surprised at how much work most artists have to put in to promote their work. Unless you're Elvis or The Beatles and there is a mini army of publicists keeping the legend industry going. One's death usually means the end of that effort, and a few folks will remember you, but I guess before the month's out the phone will stop ringing.

anyway that's my guess

Big al whittle


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 10:04 AM

As a Yank we saw little or nothing of the Corries on this side of the water. That which we did get was repackaged for the heavier card board sleeves that US LPs usually had. And when that was done the cover photos where re-shot as well. Most LP's were stuffed away in the International Bin at music shops. Most US record jobbers thought SCotts music was just pipe bands.   We also never saw them on the tube until the advent of the concert Videos that became available at Scottish Games or from the big Book Houses like Barnes and Noble.

Most people here only ever saw the two Corrie Folk Trio and Paddie Bell releases from Electra in the mid 60's. These covers had the usual Arran Isle sweater look of the time. (Thank you Clancy's.)

In effect we didn't see them, we just heard them. WE never saw what the wore. I must say I prefered the Trio and Bell sound to the Duo but the Duo to my way of listening couldn't have been better. I can't think of a Duo that gets more pure sound and power out of voices and two instruments as The Corries did.

I think it boils down to that "just the right mix" thing. Roys often brilliant playing and at times spectacular voice. And Ronnie's just always amazing voice and entirely adequate playing. Each ability balanced the other. I think it alittle unfair to compare The Corries to any group larger than they were. Especially in live performance. I had a friend say they were no Steel Eye Span or Fairport Convention which makes no sense. By weight of numbers alone those other groups were dynamic. But it was apples and oranges after all

The Corries packaged themselves to sell in a limited market. Which, marketing we must remember, is the name of the game. It makes no sense or cents to record a mess of LPs only to have them as beer coasters in your retirement. For me the Corries did the job well. And then as introductions to a more traditional sound and a broader musical canon the Corries were just right as I think about it here 35 years later.   

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Diva
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 04:25 PM

Short answer..dunno However, they were most punters first real live experience of folk music. I have a friend who gave them songs rather than give them to the School of Scottish Studies because the songswould be sung


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:40 PM

Why aren't The Corries taken seriously?

Hmm...I did and still do. As for others, I have several theories:

1) The Personal Theory. Years ago many of us had our first exposure to Irish and Scottish acoustic folk from the likes of performers such as the Clancy Brothers, The Dubliners and The Corries. And, you know, wihout them as a link to those songs many of those old songs would have been lost. They provided an essential link. Enter the "folk nazis" who question the purity of the tradition. "This is not AUTHENTIC!", they claim. They are partly responsible;

2) The Corries also come from a nationalist Scottish tradition that harkens back to the sixties. In their attempt to resurrect national feeling the emphasis was on an almost uncritical nationalism. Thus the ringing songs about the Bonnie Prince Charlie, King James, etc. Later folksingers such as Gaughan, Hamish Henderson took a more critical nationslist-Left approach emphasising social class, the working class and were critical of the higher ups (case in point, such songs as Henderson's "No Gods and Precious Few Heroes" and "Freedom Come All Ye". So, the Corries represent a certain time period of rising nationalism.

I perform many of the songs saved/performed/developed by The Corries. Then I folow them with one of Henderson's songs to try and put Scottish history into perspective.

Len Wallace


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 11:57 PM

Fair enough as far as it goes. But please don't trot out that stupid "folk nazi" rubbish. If, as I suspect, you are old enough to remember the real nazis, you really ought to know better than to use such loaded, and entirely inappropriate, terms.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:13 AM

"folk nazi" rubbish

hmmmm.. just a quickie before i go to bed..


ok.. so how about instead


"folk intelligentsia"
"folk pedants"
"folk supercilious twats"
"real folkie patronising ego wankers"
"errrmm...sorry.. what was that.. must have nodded off...yes of couse.. whatever.. i'll just agree for a quiet life.. folk thought & word police"


g'night..


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: DonMeixner
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:26 AM

I lean toward the term The Folk Snobs myself.

Don


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 04:03 AM

Vee haf annexed der corries , but zis is mein last territorial claim!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Phil
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 07:32 PM

Having purchased probably near every LP [that dates me doesn't it]that the DUBS recorded, I had the joy of being in Luke's company in Sheffield, when they used to play the FIESTA nightclub, and over the road, the CRUCIBLE THEATRE, My point being, talking to Luke about Sheffield and the Fans who followed them, he told me, when we play at the Fiesta it is purely commercialism, when we play the Crucible it is ART. Perhaps the Corries had the same ethos, and played to the audience assembled before them.

Phil*


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 08:14 PM

Boab, no accounting for taste is there? Sorry but I still like "Lochnagar".
TB


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Effsee
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 09:17 PM

Len Wallace, "No Gods, and precious few heroes" is a Brian McNeil song, and nothing to do with either Hamish Henderson or the Corries.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Effsee
Date: 30 Sep 05 - 09:36 PM

Len Wallace, having re-read your post, Hamish Henderson was later than the Corries? Jeeze, that just about sums up your knowledge of Scottish Folk Music!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 01:28 AM

Effsee---I can't read anything in Len's posting which tries definitely to put Hamish inany particular chronological position relative to the Corries. I think, in fact he did outlive the Corries in the sense that he was still around after Roy died--any correction on that?
Aye, Tattie Bogle, tastes do differ; and believe me, I do not try to belittle your opinion of the Corries "Dark Lochnagar". The Corries undeniably tinkered with melodies, phrasing,and in some instances even lyrics to put their entertainment across. I am no "stick-in-the-mud;where in my view [or to my taste] they actually improved the piece, I was all for it.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 04:31 AM

Stage Manager _


allow them to do a Full Monty review


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 08:32 AM

Boab - Len DID say "later folksingers such as Gaughan, Hamish Henderson" which made me, too, wonder a bit.

On the other hand, "No Gods and Precious Few Heroes" has a connection with Hamish Henderson: Brian lifted it from his 'Elegies for the Dead of Cyrenaika', first elegy: 'End of a Campaign', as acknowledged in Brian's songbook.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Effsee
Date: 01 Oct 05 - 07:16 PM

You're absolutely right Susanne, and I sit corrected, but Len's post implied that it was a H.H. song. Not so.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 02 Oct 05 - 09:37 AM

Effsee, you're certainly right in that, and you beat me to correcting it :-).


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Joani
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 02:22 PM

Weren't the Corries anti-semitic, singing about "wee fat Jews" ?I thought they were the BEST until I head that, and now can barely listen to them. I know MANY others who agree. How sad!!!!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 02:44 PM

As a long time fan, I confess I am unaware of such a remark in their repertoire.
Could you be more specific ?


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: BTNG
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 02:54 PM

Before the politically correct really get their knickers in a knot, let's put the line into it's proper context. I t comes from a piss take of Scotland The Brave, so if for example, you're an Elton John or Rolling Stones fan, you're also going to be offended by this song..Time to get a sense of humour I think...eh ...?

The Corries - Scotland The Brave

Land o' the purple heather.
Land o' the dirty weather.
Land where the midges gaither, Scotland the Brave.
Land o' the Pakistanis,
Andy Capp and Saturday sannies.
Land where they sell their grannies, Scotland the Brave.

Used to say in faither's day,
You could hear the bagpipes play,
But now you hear the regal tones o' Elton John and The Rolling Stones.
Land that is full o' stinkers,
Wee fat Jews and VP drinkers.
Whisky put a lot o' stinkers, into Scottish graves.

Land that is full o' skivers,
Comic singers, deep sea divers,
Turbans on our bus condrivers, Scotland the Brave.
Land o' the brutal Bobbies,
Councillers wi' part-time jobbies,
Architects wi' paying hobbies, Scotland the Brave.

The tourists come here every year
To see all our historic gear,
But all they see is loads o' navvies, high rise flats wi' concrete lavvies.
Land o' the artic' lorries,
Andy Stewart and ra Corries,
Land where everybody borries, Scotland the Brave.

Land o' the Kilt and Sporran -
Underneath, there's nothin' worn!
How I wish the wind was warm! Scotland the Brave.
I must admit it's pretty gruesome,
Walking about wi' your frozen twosome!
It's all we've got - we musn't lose 'em - Scotland the Brave.

Conservatives try to assure us,
Labour's hard-put to endure us,
The Kirk puts curbs on our enjoyment, Government makes unemployment.
Never mind - the day is near,
When independence will be here!
We'll drink a toast in Younger's beer to Scotland the Brave


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Reinhard
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 03:27 PM

I wonder how shallow someone must be that a short phrase from a parody taken out of context makes them from "the best" to "can barely listen to".

johnmc, according to Wikipedia, the song in question seems to be the Corries's parody of Scotland the Brave. In it they cite a kitchen sink full of prejudices, the jews just one of dozens of others.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,johnmc
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 03:33 PM

Well, now I know. The unfortunate thing about this is that, while all the other faux racist remarks do make me smile, the phrase in question seems devoid of wit. However, I'll remain a fan, as will most, I'm sure.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: stallion
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 03:56 PM

Just heard a tape from mike harding in the 1970's, now he probably would cringe at language he was using, similiar vintage, different world now, we all fall into the trap of making judgement on events and people with our 21st century goggles, we live in a more enlightened or sensative world now and had they been performing today they probably, no, certainly, wouldn't have written those words to the song. It was how it was then, be thankful it isn't now. And be a little more forgiving thats how we progress as a society.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM

It makes no more sense to castigate the Corries for lyrics written all these years ago than it does to purse the lips about the Fawlty Towers episode where the Major describes the difference between wogs and niggers.

No, it wouldn't happen nowadays, but that was then, and now is now.

btw I loved Don Meixner's line "It makes no sense or cents to record a mess of LPs only to have them as beer coasters in your retirement"

So true.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,EAMON O'MARA
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 11:51 AM

Many years later. Does it all matter? I have lived and worked in ten different countries. I play Irish music, but I will play any song--Christian,Muslim,Hindu--that I happen to like. In this desperate, disparate world music is one thing we can all share. Let us share.   e.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 07:42 PM

Just came across this Corries article (with an emphasis on Roy's lifestory):

https://senscot.net/true-story-of-man-behind-the-corries/

Here is an excerpt :

" ... Besides ditching the day jobs, Williamson and Browne resolved to abandon the time-consuming trips to folk clubs and instead organise and run their own concert tours. With no middle men the cake was divided into three enticingly large slices: one for each musician and the third for expenses.

As a business model and an artistic venture it was outstandingly successful. Browne, assisted by his wife, Pat, an accountant, took care of the business side, while Williamson, the more gifted player, looked after the music. Browne, by his own admission, could barely strum a guitar before he joined The Corries, but he was willing to learn and his singing voice complemented his partner’s.

The duo’s concerts could give the impression of being couthy and off-the-cuff, but the reality was entirely different. Rehearsals were meticulous and nothing was left to chance. The pair were the ultimate professionals and their audiences loved them, buying records, tapes and CDs and other merchandise in huge quantities at the shows. Yet, just as Williamson’s relationship with his mother was fractious, so too it could be with Browne. If they weren’t on a par with Noel and Liam Gallagher, they had their moments... "



Cheers, R-J
(who will admit to liking some of their material AND learning some of their harmonies, LOL!)


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Aug 18 - 07:56 PM

wonderful article. well done finding it.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Allan Conn
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 07:44 AM

(who will admit to liking some of their material AND learning some of their harmonies, LOL!)

To tell you the truth I was a teenager in the late 70s and was in a punk rock band. All my mates were in to punk etc but we also listened to The Corries. I never missed their TV programmes. They were regarded as quite cool even by youngsters and many Scottish people (outside the real folk circles) got to know many of these songs through the versions by The Corries and their versions are still loved by many. I too have seen them criticised but all these years later I still get asked to sing a "Corries song" when the person actually means a "Scottish folk song". So the people who matter - their audience - certainly do remember them fondly. For me I am not a great lover of too many comic songs anyway so if I was making up a Corries playlist it would be unlikely to include any of their comic songs and yes this one in question is hopelessly dated and not acceptable now. However their Killiecrankie, Wild Mountain Thyme, Dark Lochnagar, Annie Laurie etc take some beating. For me anyway!


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:20 AM

"Why weren't the Corries taken seriously?"
Very simple, because they were very popular......the great unwashed loved them because they entertained.....and the snobs who comprise much of the folk music scene could not bear to share their tastes!!!

It's much worse today though, most of the stuff produced today, can be tholled only by the deeply initiated.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Johnny J
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:28 AM

The Corries themselves were fine but it was all "the clones" which were on the go at the time and the often extremely "in your face" aggressive Jacobite performers which passed for pub folk performers back then which became a bit too much.

It's not any better now, of course, as dreich "singer songwriters" and second rate Americana/Country singers have taken their place.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:30 AM

My only complaint about them was that they recorded Cyril Tawney's great song 'The Grey Funnel Line ' and re-named it ' The Bona Line ' and gave no credit to Cyril, unforgiveable.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,Ake
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:39 AM

Ah Cyril Tawney......"The Oggie Man" was my introduction to recorded folk music.....If I remember it was sung to the Johny Mathis tune ..."The twelth of never"......took this then young man a while to understand what it was all about.....RIP Cyril, simply one of the best.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 08:44 AM

"My only complaint about them was that they recorded Cyril Tawney's great song 'The Grey Funnel Line ' and re-named it ' The Bona Line ' and gave no credit to Cyril, unforgiveable."

Yeah, I've often wondered why they did that, since the notes on their CDs and records are normally quite good about crediting people. Could it have been to do with the way Roy Williamson learnt songs? He couldn't read music as a child, and I don't know to what extent he learnt as an adult. If he heard it sung in a pub, "Bona Line" may gave been a Mondegreen for "Grey Funnel Line" and he may have been introduced to it as if it were a traditional song of unknown provenance.

Pity, because I like the way Roy sings the song very much.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 12:03 PM

At the time of their popularity, hey were taken very seriously by the population in Scotland in general, but not by "the folk scene", for the very reasons set out by "Akenaton". This is Scotland - you're not allowed to be successful.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 02:06 PM

The one that surprised me, when I heard other versions in slow 3/4 time, was "The Rose of Allandale" - seems everyone in Scotland who does it, gives it that rousing 4/4 march tempo, which I guess, came from their version. Have to say I much prefer the slow 3/4 (e.g. check out the Watersons).
But no doubting their popularity which has led to various people doing cover versions, including "The Sorries" who appear at Edinburgh Festival Fringe regularly, and do a fair job of it


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: StephenH
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 02:57 PM

Well, they always appealed to me, even admitting that I found them verging on the cute once in a while. On the other hand, I love their renditions of "The Roving Journeyman" using full matchboxes as percussion, or "I Will Go" using the twin bodhran accompaniment.
I thought the combination of the bodhran and what's listed on the lp as a '28-string guitar' on "Kishmul's Galley" gave the song a certain majesty, and their version of Robin Willimason's "October Song" remains an absolute favourite of mine.
I never regretted purchasing the half-dozen of their lps still in my
possession.


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Subject: RE: Why aren't the Corries taken seriously
From: Kenny B (inactive)
Date: 13 Aug 18 - 03:06 PM

When i performed the Rose of Allandale at a well known folk club i was asked if it was based on the Corries version to which i replied "no its the brass band version"
This excuse has been used many times when i use the "folk process" and do something slightly differntly from other "Folks"
If anyone else uses tis excuse Ill know where they got it from.

Being from the Edinburgh area with its many military connections I would imagine one of the Corries would have heard it played by pipe, brass or military band in march time and found that "arrangement" more to their style, the sheet music arrangement I have is in 4/4 time and to the melody used by the Corries


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