Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Version)

Subject: Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Version)
From: chico
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:13 PM

How do you pronounce "cheviot" -- with french style "sheviot" or CHeviot, like "chum"?

And what would the pronunciation be historically in the 1430c version?

   D  Em  D  A                   D A7  (D7)
  The Persè owt off Northombarlonde,
        G  (Am  G)  D    G   
  and avowe to God mayd he
       D  (A    D)   Em  D        A  
  That he wold hunte in the mowntayns
       G    (Bm)  A7       D
  off Chyviat within days thre,
  
  ['Nethar in Ynglonde, Skottlonde, nar France,
  nor for no man of a woman born,
  But, and fortune be my chance,
  I dar met him, on man for on.']
  
  'Yelde the, Persè,' sayde the Doglas,
  and i feth I shalle the brynge
  Wher thowe shalte haue a yerls wagis
  of Jamy our Skottish kynge.
  
  'Nay,' sayd the lord Persè,
  'I tolde it the beforne,
  That I wolde neuer yeldyde be
  to no man of a woman born.'
   
  A the tothar syde that a man myght se
  a large cloth-yard and mare:
  Towe bettar captayns wear nat in Cristiantè
  then that day slan wear ther.
  
  Of fifteen hondrith archars of Ynglonde
  went away but seuenti and thre;
  Of twenti hondrith spear-men of Skotlonde,
  but even five and fifti.
  
  Word ys commen to Eddenburrowe,
  to Jamy the Skottishe kynge,
  That dougheti Duglas, lyff-tenant of the Marches,
  he lay slean Chyviot within.
  
  Worde ys commyn to lovly Londone,
  till the fourth Harry our kynge,
  That lord Persè, leyff-tenante of the Marchis,
  he lay slayne Chyviat within.
  
  'God haue merci on his solle,' sayde Kyng Harry,
  'good lord, yf thy will it be!
  I haue a hondrith captayns in Ynglonde,' he sayd,
  as good as euer was he:
  
  Ihesue Crist our balys bete,
  and to the blys vs brynge!
  Thus was the hountynge of the Chyvyat:
  God send vs alle good endyng!
  

Subject: RE: Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Versi
From: 8_Pints
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:23 PM

CHeviot as in your second option.

I guess the language a phonetic form of English before the spelling was standardised.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Version)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 05:40 PM

The Great Vowel Shift was well underway at the time of the song. See http://www.courses.fas.harvard.edu/~chaucer/vowels.htm
Vowel Shift
At best, pronunciations are approximations.

Even if a dead Englishman of the 15th c. can be found with preservation good enough to permit recreating him from stem cell material, he would have no memory of his language.

Subject: RE: Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Version)
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 07:21 PM

Almost certainly "ch" as in "church."

Even "chivalrie" was probably pronounced that way. The "soft" "sh" sound comes from French, which few English or Gaelic speakers would have thought worth imitating.

Subject: RE: Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Version)
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 07:34 AM

I divvent knaa aboot then, but we calls it Cheev-yut in wor hoose!

Subject: RE: Origins: Chevy Chase pronunciation (1430 Version)
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:58 AM

My unabridged dictionary says that it's ch as in chair, both for chevy and for Cheviot. It notes that an "sh" sound in either case is an American pronunciation.

The first pronunciation it give for Cheviot calls for a short e. That would jibe with the "y" in Chyviot, above. This would make it a short vowel of some sort, as in "Ynglonde."

If you ask why Americans are saying Cheviot often enough to make it into a dictionary, it's because Cheviot is a breed of sheep as well as a range of hills.

I'm sure that Americans have been influenced by the word "Chevrolet."
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