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good shanty singers?
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Subject: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 08 Jun 07 - 04:41 PM I used to hear the odd shanty sung when I lived in cornwall and I heard one the other day and suddenly thought I'd go out and see if I could get any decent recordings. Anyone got a decent reccomendation or six? Live recordings would probably be the best. (Shanty's somehow strike me as the kind of thing that should be as real as possible.) |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,mg Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:06 PM Save the Wawana has some great shanties and sea songs..including I think the incomparable Bob Kotta singing Bully in the Alley. Just google. mg |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:10 PM Thanks I'll check that out. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: mick p r.m s.c Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:17 PM COME TO FALMOUTH NEXT WEEK-END. Hear some good Shanties and Sea songs sung by people that enjoy doing just that,and for a good cause. Cheers Mick. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Dave Earl Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:18 PM Where are you at Bardan? Threre are any number of Shanty singers/crews around - both sides of the Atlantic. On the English side young won't go far wrong with Johnny Collins and Jim Mageean or Jim's group The Keelers. Dave |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 08 Jun 07 - 05:19 PM Oh, I'm in Dublin these days. Doubt I'll be back to falmouth for a long time. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Lighter Date: 08 Jun 07 - 07:03 PM If authenticity is your cup of grog, there is no substitute for Stan Hugill, whose recordings can easily be had from his memorial website. Hugill (1906-1992) learned his shanties at sea in the 1920s aboard the last square-rigged British and German commercial sailing vessels. One of the last of the genuine shantymen, he was in good voice to the end of his life and is fondly remembered by many Mudcatters. If you'd prefer something little less authentic but more immediately listenable and closer in spirit than many recent recordings, try anything by The Shanty Crew, Johnny Collins, Stormalong John, or A. L. Lloyd & Ewan MacColl. There are more good shanty performers out there, some probably reading this, but to me those named are among the very best. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Crane Driver Date: 08 Jun 07 - 07:38 PM Contact the Chantey Cabin and be amazed at how much there is. They have a compilation CD called "All Aboard" with 18 tracks taken from various CDs that they sell. That'll give you a good idea of some names to go for. Andrew |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Guest - SylviaN Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:07 PM I can recommend 3 Sheets to the Wind |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Ref Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:48 PM Avoid "Bounding Main" at all costs. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Texas Guest Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:57 PM Am I off here, or...what about The Johnson Girls, Gordon Bok and Geoff Kaufman? Maybe I'm wrong, but... Cheers. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,JWB Date: 08 Jun 07 - 10:40 PM Mystic Seaport's Forebitter has several good CDs out, well performed and researched (Geoff Kaufman is a member of that group). Other favorites are Don Sinetti, Bob Webb, Bob Walser, Louis Killen, Tom Lewis. If you like the original versions of things, check out Salty Dick's Uncensored Sailor Songs. There's a good amount of material out there. Have fun. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: SINSULL Date: 08 Jun 07 - 10:42 PM The Boarding Party |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Dave Hanson Date: 09 Jun 07 - 01:01 AM Any of the early MacColl/Lloyd recordings and in the UK we have some fine shanty groups including, The Keelers, Kimbers Men and Monkeys Orphan. eric |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Pete Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:20 AM "Shanties From the Great Days of Sail" by the Mollyhawks comes with a booklet containing the lyrics. It's not live but worth a listen. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Ernest Date: 09 Jun 07 - 11:17 AM Since you are in Ireland: - Warp Four: "A hundred years ago" - Clancy O`Connell Clancy: "The wild and wasteful ocean" (not only shanties) Also (mentioned above) Jim Mageean & Johnny Collins: "Coming of Age" (this one is live). Ahoi! Ernest |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Richard Bridge Date: 09 Jun 07 - 02:10 PM The Keelers are a little inaccesible unless you are an aficionado. I was given one of their tapes by someone who had liked (and sung some) Peter Paul and Mary, and years later was trying to get back into folk. "I bought this" she said "but I don't see how anyone could listen to it". WOuld you like it? I said "Yes". She's a judge now! |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST Date: 09 Jun 07 - 08:56 PM Good shanty singers..... an oxymoron ?? |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Wendy J Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:31 PM Hank Cramer (www.hankcramer.com)and Pint & Dale (www.pintndale.com)are the best US shanty singers. Strong vocals are a necessity for shanty singers, and these are the best; the arrangements of both, particularly P&D's hurdy gurdy, are arresting and very fresh. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,JimP Date: 10 Jun 07 - 01:23 AM Come on guys, how 'bout our own Chanty Ranger & Rodriano's efforts? cdbaby |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:01 AM While Pint & Dale (whose stuff I like) do do shanties, I'm not sure I'd call them shanty singers. Amongst the best over here I'd say Kimbers Men. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: JennyO Date: 10 Jun 07 - 04:41 AM Chanteyranger and Radriano are excellent. I'm lucky enough to have some of their music! There are a few obvious ones that have not been mentioned yet - our own Charley Noble aka Charlie Ipcar and his shanty group Roll and Go Nobody's mentioned Danny Spooner yet. Then in Oz there's another one of us, jack halyard aka John Warner , songwriter and singer of sea shanties and other songs, and his group The Roaring Forties. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 10 Jun 07 - 07:49 AM Be careful what is termed as 'authentic' as well. I once heard the comment that an 'authentic' shanty should be sung in complete unison with no harmonies. The reason given was that the sailors at the time would be working hard and have no time harmony singing! Well, sorry, but until someone proves otherwise to me I doubt very much singing a natural harmony, as people do all the time, is any more difficult or takes any longer than singing in unison. I accept that most people will sing unison when faced with a song or chorus but in any group you will find a percentage who automaticaly sing above and below the line. Often both and often with no idea they are doing it! Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Jun 07 - 08:07 AM Lloyd asserted that harmony was only sung by black crews. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Dave Hanson Date: 10 Jun 07 - 08:59 AM Richard Bridge, I don't see your problem with The Keelers, an excellent group, and all fine singers individually. eric |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Jun 07 - 09:51 AM I like them. The person who gave me their tape who was an ex-folkie from the Peter Paul and Mary era found them unlistenable. Some of the voices are better than others (and all are better than me, but that's not the point) |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Nick Date: 10 Jun 07 - 10:55 AM I'm with guest on the question of this being an oxmoron. Stan Hugil goes so far as to say how far off from authentic most recordings are. If it sounds pretty and musical, it is not being sung correctly! Loud, sharp and explosive is what a good shanty singer would have been. Not that I do not enjoy a pretty tune, and a cat screeching is not too entertaining, but the fact remains the"song" was meant to coordinate the work of a buch of people who probably were not art lovers, in a crowded, noisy and confused environment. Speaking of Stan, have you ever heard him? YIPE! Authentic to be sure, interesting, yes, but only in the most masochistic way enjoyable. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Richard Bridge Date: 10 Jun 07 - 12:29 PM H's a bit dead to hear now! |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Peter Kasin Date: 10 Jun 07 - 02:54 PM Since live recordings are your preference, check out the Mystic Seaport Sea Music Festival recordings, a mix of chanteys, forebitters, and modern sea songs. There is also a double CD compilation from the Lancaster maritime music festivals. Rounder records is releasing Lomax field recordings. Several, though not exclusively chanteys, contain a good many of them. www.rounder.com. Maybe technically they're not "live,' as Lomax sat down with them to record, as opposed to taking his recording equipment out in boats with them, which would not have been possible withy his heavy equipment and water splashing everywhere, but these are authentic workers singing their work songs. Three that, IMHO, stand out, are: Bahamas 1935: Chanteys and Anthems from Andros and Kat Islands. From the series "Deep River of Song." Southern Journey, vol. 13: Earliest Times: Georgia Sea Islands Songs for Everyday living. Caribbean Voyage: The 1962 Field Recordings: Nevis and St. Kitts. Of Stan Hugill's recordings, the two live concert ones are "Stan Hugill: Aboard The Cutty Sark." and "Stan Hugill: In Concert at Mystic Seaport." There are many fine studio recordings of chanteys, so my advice is don't limit yourself to thinking that live recordings are always best. The world is your oyster. You can't go wrong with Hugill, Louis Killen, Jim Magean, Johnny Collins, and many others (and thank you JimP and JennyO for your flattering remarks). Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Peter Kasin Date: 10 Jun 07 - 03:07 PM Oh, i almost forgot, there's another live concert Hugill recording, actually a fetival recording: "Chants des Marins Anglais,' recorded at sea festivals in Brittany in '88, '89 and 91.Great stuff! Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 11 Jun 07 - 09:07 AM The first folk record that I ever bought was called 'A Sailor's Garland' by Ewan MacColl amd A.L.Lloyd (XTRA 5013). Long since deleted, of course, but I can still listen to it with as much pleasure as I did 40 years ago. Some of the tracks on it may still be available on compilation CDs - try Topic's website. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Grimmy Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:28 AM Am I the only one who likes Bob Roberts? |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: jimL Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:31 AM Monkey's Orphan ... http://www.monkeysorphan.co.uk/ |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Schantieman Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:00 PM All the singers mentioned above are worth a listen even if only to dedcide what you don't like. Jim Mageean and Johnny Collins are among my personal favourites, and I have a record (well, one of those little new shiny ones) by Kimber's Men and they're good too. Stan Hugill's voice was unique. No-one would pretend that it was a great voice but he was a great singer. When there were dozens - scores even - of shanty singers gathered in Liverpool last November for his hundredth birthday party not one person attemted to win the 'Stan Hugill soundalike competition'! A lot of people nowadays, sadly, sing shanties in an utterly inappropriate style - with guitars; too fast; with twiddly bits; and, sin of all sins, with an inconsistent beat! I believe there are even lumpy jumpers singing them at times! I could go on, but there's enough of a target there.... Steve |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,albert Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:39 PM Baggyrinkle from the old seafaring port of Swansea are really good and are well worth seeing if they come down your way! Hope Dave of the group makes a speedy recovery! Albert |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 11 Jun 07 - 12:46 PM If you can find an old Oscar Brand recording of sea chanties (or shanties), have a listen. His vinyl LP's were made in the 50's and early '60's, as I recall. I have not seen them in CD format. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Jun 07 - 02:12 PM Hmm, what about Tom Lewis? |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Marion in Cornwall Date: 11 Jun 07 - 02:53 PM Here are links to two shanty goups based in Cornwall and East Devon. They are both at Falmouth this weekend and well worth going to see (or if you're too far away, listening to - you can order cd's from both these sites). Rum & Shrub Hanging Johnny |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Celtaddict Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:04 PM Tom Lewis is wonderful, and his songs have the authority of his decades of experience in the Royal Navy, and his voice certainly could be heard in any environment, but he rarely if ever does the shanties themselves. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Greg B Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:18 PM Tom can sing a shanty with the best of them. In fact, at our first meeting in the early 1980's, we were in conversation in the YTB at Mystic when he suddenly made his mind up that the room ought to be singing, not talking. He lit into 'Rollicking Randy Dandy' at a decibel level which would cause most ghetto-mobiles to blush and turn in their sub-woofers, nearly cracking my skull like a crystal goblet in the process. Everyone sang for the next three hours. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Charley Noble Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:46 PM As Crane Driver pointed out above the one best source for such CD's in the UK (if not in the World) is Chantycabin: go to their website and order some CD's. It would be amusing and entertaining to experience a shanty singing competition for the title of "Best Shantysinger." But there is no "best" in my book, only the "good" and "better." What about the rest of the wannebees? Well, they don't make the book in spite of their efforts. Pint and Dale, whom I had the pleasure of listening to this past weekend at the Mystic Sea Music Festival, are not shanty singers. They are brilliant interpretors of sea music, on the edge of rock. Few people can deliver a song as well as they can with close harmony and energy, backed up with guitar and hurdy gurdy. You would swear there was an entire back-up band behind them but it's just the two of them doing what they love. And I agree with Greg that when Tom Lewis wants to let loose with a traditional shanty, stand way back! Oh, and thanks for the above compliments to Roll & Go and yours truly. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,guest Date: 11 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM Although not a Shanty group, they sing em well and a host of Maritime songs. What about MAINBRACE from Wales. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Herga Kitty Date: 11 Jun 07 - 04:56 PM Re Celtaddict and Greg B's posts about Tom Lewis - of course sailors in the Royal Navy didn't sing shanties while working. I'd second Shantieman in recommending Jim and Johnny (not surprising really, considering that I had the privilege of hearing them weekly at my local folk club). Definitely worth seeing/ hearing Hanging Johnny. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Marc Bernier Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:41 PM Just for a point of discussion, and having nothing to do with Guest, Bardan's initial request. I was in a conversation this weekend (w/a couple folks previously mentioned) about a paper that was presented by Bob Walser at the symposium at Mystic's Sea Music festival. There is a convincing theory out there that BIG VOICED CHANTYMEN ,may infact have been less common than we have previously believed. And that it might be possible that the big voice delivery may well be a result of chanty singing becoming a performance tradition. For those of you who don't know who I am. Trust me this theory was not being discussed or put forth by wimpy voiced men. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 11 Jun 07 - 06:50 PM Well, thanks a bundle everyone for the suggestions! Now I've a big pile of potential purchases to winnow down to an affordable stack, but much better to have that than nothing to go on. Looks like the start of a good journey into shantdom. (With no comments on Christy Moore's 'Voyage' please, urgh.) On a side note heard a recording of Ronnie Drew singing South Australia the other day. Not experienced enough to say how 'authentic' it was but sounded pretty good to my uneducated ears. Ciao everyone anyway! |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: PoppaGator Date: 11 Jun 07 - 09:24 PM I'm surprised that only one respondant has mentioned the (now-defunct) Boarding Party, a fairly important American shanty group with several albums to their credit. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Charley Noble Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:28 PM Boarding Party and Forebitter share honor in my opinion for setting standards for good shanty singing in the States. Their old recordings are certainly available. It's my understanding that no new recordings will be produced by either group. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: JWB Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:52 PM Selecting "good" sea music recordings is like pointing out the "best" dish at an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet: one may go back for thirds on the crab rangoon, while another loads up on kung pao chicken. There are some great recordings of nothing but chanteys, and many many recordings by the performers already mentioned above that are sea music, with a mix of chanteys, forebitters, shore songs and so on. I never cease to be amazed by the breadth of material that fits under the label of sea songs, given what a relatively tiny slice of the folk music pie it is. Listening to the final concert at Mystic on Sunday would have been enough to convince even the most narrow critic that sea music is one hell of a smorgasbord. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Peter Kasin Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:04 PM Good point, Jerry, and please pass the swedish meatballs. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Peter Kasin Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:07 PM and let's not forget The Johnson Girls, one of the finest groups around. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: JWB Date: 11 Jun 07 - 11:19 PM Chanteyranger, you missed their surprise appearance in the final concert at Mystic, chilling spines with "Sun Down Below." Woof! |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: radriano Date: 12 Jun 07 - 03:34 PM Okay, I can't help myself. For those who may not be familiar with Chanteyranger & Radriano's albums, here's a link to their website with full access to lyrics and liner notes: Handspikes.com |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 07 - 02:26 AM radriano, after hearing one of your albums from a friend, I would also say that you, along with others mentioned "fit the bill"
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GRex Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:19 AM radriano Many thanks for your link to 'Handspikes.com'. There is a wealth shanty lyrics on that site, well worth a visit. GRex |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Young Buchan Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:07 AM Do you really truly want authenticity? Are you really brave and dedicated? Then I'll tell you - though I can't guarantee they're still available. Before he died Peter Kennedy was selling recordings on Folktrax that Jimmy Carpenter made in Britain between the wars. For those of you who don't know, Carpenter was an American academic who was given a trip to England by his University to collect old ballads that might still be in oral tradition. The story goes that at a very early stage he wound up in a pub getting drunk with some old sailors who didn't know any ballads but gave him some shanties, and that's what he did till his money ran out! Now for the bad bit. The recordings are almost (but I assure you not quite) unlistenable toable. Many sound as if the singer had his head in a bucket, whilst frying sausages on the platform of Euston Station. But you said you were brave, dedicated and wanted true authenticity! I've learn a lot from them. You may too. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Bardan Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:45 AM I never said I was brave or dedicated! I fit much better into the unprincipled coward niche really. Should think about going into politics or something. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Snuffy Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:27 PM Some great stuff on the Carpenter recordings, but as you say abysmal recording quality - recorded on dictaphone wax cylinder and transferred to tape and then to CDR. But for authenticity, you can't get better than listening to seamen who were in their sixties or even 70s when Stan Hugill was born. When Mark Page (born 1835, went to sea aged 12) sings "Paddy works on the Railway", it's amazing to think that he was 16 years (or more) older than the song itself. |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Peter Kasin Date: 15 Jun 07 - 01:48 AM I listened to the JM Carpenter discs at radriano's place, and I have transcibed the lyrics to all the songs as I was able to hear each and every word perfectly clearly, unlike all you peasants. Here is an example. Disc one, track 5: "I mmf remm fnn geminn duoffern bluhh, eeit blim funlne glmanner mookum stunnn!" See how easy that is? Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: Snuffy Date: 15 Jun 07 - 10:09 AM Chanteyranger, I had the first line of track 5 marked as dubious, but thought it might be something like "You rambling boys of Liverpool, ye sailormen beware". On re-listening I see you are undoubtedly correct. Many thanks for the clarification. :-) |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,Chanteyranger Date: 15 Jun 07 - 03:20 PM You're right on both counts, Snuffy. Rambling boys of Liverpool are a dubious bunch. Chanteyranger |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,mg Date: 15 Jun 07 - 04:23 PM we are all good shanty singers..just that some of us sing in the chorus...mg |
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Subject: RE: good shanty singers? From: GUEST,mg Date: 15 Jun 07 - 05:28 PM To elaborate...I think it is really important for people to know if they are shanty leaders or not. Like they say of a leader, look around occasionally to see if someone is following you. There were some really great assemblies of people at Folklife, but there is a point at which it falls apart if everyone feels obliged to lead when really there are preferential roles for them (and I include myself in this category). There is probably no greater bunch of group singers than shanty singers, and they want to sing and be led well and it is not a task that everyone is up to...which doesn't mean you can't have a perfectly fine time singing anyway..you just don't have to lead if you are not truly a leader. This applies to mostly major events for which people have gone to some trouble to attend..not your ordinary group of friends etc. Perhaps Jon B would care to elaborate..he said something along these lines I believe... mg |
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