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Folklore: The Imagined Village
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Aug 10 - 07:23 PM Steve Gardham wrote:- "the new edition has lots of appropriate illustrations mainly of early dance teams" but modestly omitted to mention his own role in sourcing some of these splendid photographs. Well done Steve! However even greater credit should be given to Pat Pickles and her wonderful collection of postcards, some of which appear in the book; Georgina rightly comments that "Pat and the collection are national treasures". I believe that Pat is busy preparing a new edition of Jig Dolls; "The Brightest of Entertainers, which she and her late husband Rennie originally wrote together. This promises to be a great treat, so watch this space! Matthew |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Steve Gardham Date: 12 Aug 10 - 06:25 PM Along with 'Fakesong' which starts to explode the myths of a somewhat earlier era, this is an excellent book, well researched and essential reading for anyone interested in the subject, even if you disagree with some of the views expressed. Having received my copy of the new edition, my old edition is up for grabs. Apart from the difference in price the other difference is the new edition has lots of appropriate illustrations mainly of early dance teams. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Les in Chorlton Date: 12 Aug 10 - 02:36 PM Not so much fast as often Matthew. I think their are lots of clubs and pubs where people still sing old songs and as we say mostly but not exclusivel trad. But as few can agree what any of these words mean I am happy to do what we do without really defining it and including songs that basically work in a small room. i think it was our opening night an Afro-Carribean man sang No Woman No cry and we all sang the chorus like it was Pleasant and delightful! Shame we scared him off. cheers Les |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Matthew Edwards Date: 12 Aug 10 - 01:57 PM You're a fast reader Les; I'm still working my way through this! So far I find it a profoundly illuminating study of many of the cultural attitudes and assumptions that went into the early Folk Revival. The Beech is one of a few places where the old songs still thrive; but I'm afraid my attendance there next week will have to be in imagination only. I would happily discuss the book with you there at some later date, but I wouldn't want to waste valuable singing (and drinking) time. Also I wouldn't want to provoke that nasty Mr Shimrod into burning my copy! Matthew |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Les in Chorlton Date: 12 Aug 10 - 01:15 PM Right then. I have just finished reading "The Imagined Village" by Georgina Boyes. I think it is an excellent book bursting with knowledge and understanding of the English Folk Revival. It is academic in that it is based in a massive collection of information about the people and the institutions of "The Revival" it is very carefully referenced so that any of use could follow up what Ms Boyes has found. I found it very readable and it helped me understand something that I have been involved in as a performer, organiser and general enthusiast since 1964. It makes clear how whole collections of, almost exclusively, men have invented hypothesese and pretend theories which seem in the end to have done few but themselves any good. The book seems to end in the 1970s and here in 2010 some of us are still singing old songs and dancing old dances. Something about "The Revival" is good. Is it the continued singing in small human spaces like rooms in pubs and dancing in small halls that lies at the heart of what we do? We are currently deep in the heart of "Folk Festival time" and brilliant most of them are. But I think the small scale performance of song and dance is where it came from and where it still works, survives and thrives. Thanks very much Ms Boyes and thanks very much "The English Folk Revival" L in C# |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 04 Aug 10 - 02:55 PM Have a goo'wun, Les - we'll be back soon I promise! Regards to all... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 Aug 10 - 02:29 PM Thanks Mr/Ms Snail Boyes as you correctly point out Grovel, grovel. And thanks to Mr Ashtray who with the good lady Rachel is often mentioned and missed at The Beech - to where I much depart Cheers L in C# |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: TheSnail Date: 04 Aug 10 - 01:26 PM "One Georgina Boyce - their's only one Georgina Boyce" This may well be true. I think "There's only one Georgina Boyes" as well. Got my copy this morning. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 04 Aug 10 - 10:11 AM Jolly good, Les - really looking forward to it! When I say ourselves I am, of course, refering to the numberless & nameless rank & file folkies who keep this thing alive year in year out for little reward but the crack o't, which is enough - more than enough - in fact, it's all that matters. It comes true in places like The Beech, where in the songs & choruses the Imagined Village oft assumes a vivid corporeality that would put Brigadoon to shame I'm sure. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 Aug 10 - 09:50 AM "is it just further apologism for the Folk Revival as an essentially bourgeois reactionary phenomenon redeemed by leftie-intellectual baby-boomer beatniks like ourselves?" I don't think so Sean. Naturally the fist thing I did was to check for name in the index - I don't appear. I don't think you do either but since you so many names I cannot be sure. Only up to p29 but it looks like it's getting organised to give the myth makers a good seeing to, so to speak Cheers Les Songs 1st & 3rd Wednesdays Tunes 2nd & 4th Wednesdays |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 04 Aug 10 - 08:26 AM Oh - anyone got a copy of Dave Harker's Fakesong they don't want? Preferably one that hasn't been pissed on... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray Date: 04 Aug 10 - 08:16 AM Does it tell it like it is, Les? Or is it just further apologism for the Folk Revival as an essentially bourgeois reactionary phenomenon redeemed by leftie-intellectual baby-boomer beatniks like ourselves? I've got to wait until the 22nd before I get mine... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Les in Chorlton Date: 04 Aug 10 - 05:36 AM Ordered yesterday, arrived today, life on hold? No, but ut will keep me busy for a while - is writing in the margins compulsory? I expect to see people waving copies at festivals and chanting: "One Georgina Boyce - their's only one Georgina Boyce" All together now L in C# |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Wolfhound person Date: 04 Aug 10 - 04:57 AM Should be compulsory reading for all. My son spent 10 months tracking down a used copy for me and finally got one a couple of months ago. At one point, Georgina mentions die-hard "Playford-style" EFDSS members resigning, as new-fangled dances like Morpeth Rant were introduced in the early 50s. My parents were some of those members...... Paws |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Rob Naylor Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:12 AM S O'P: Here's the link: The Imagined Village. Looks like a suitable sort of birthday present anyway. Strangely, I put it on my birthday present list just before you posted that! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Les in Chorlton Date: 03 Aug 10 - 03:52 AM Great news. Ordered mine today L in C |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Jack Blandiver Date: 02 Aug 10 - 07:54 AM Here's the link: The Imagined Village. Looks like a suitable sort of birthday present anyway. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes Date: 02 Aug 10 - 07:42 AM The new, illustrated, edition of The Imagined Village is now available from the No Masters website. And it's a lot cheaper than the original. Georgina |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: The Borchester Echo Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:40 AM I think that signpost might have been one forged in irony. It's at least three years since the Weller/Carthy demo of John Barleycorn first surfaced. Every now and then a few more rumours emerge, then Simon's back to his bird-watching hide. It had better be good at WOMAD, considering that it's going to be nigh impossible to get to he new, impossibly remote site. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:26 AM There is no information - just a sign and 'site coming soon'. Very disappointing. There's a little bit here :
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Flatback Caper Date: 13 Jun 07 - 11:44 AM for information go here, if you already haven't :-D http://www.imaginedvillage.com/ |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,padgett Date: 13 Jun 07 - 06:45 AM Fay's view was she liked it, basically! Ray |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Ruth Archer Date: 13 Jun 07 - 04:01 AM It is (finally) launching at WOMAD, Diane, and touring in the autumn to the venues in the Music Beyond Mainstream network. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: The Borchester Echo Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:59 AM Erm, are you saying Fay's review was learned, or not learned, or what? Actually I opened the thread hoping it would be about Simon Emmerson's much delayed project of the same name. Y'know, the one that's got Benjamin Zephaniah doing Tam Lin and other, actually interesting, stuff. It's supposed to launch at WOMAD, though I don't really know if Real are being real about this. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,PMB Date: 13 Jun 07 - 03:48 AM Ray having reminded me of the book, I set about re- reading it. Although I've only got as far as the first 3 chapters, and the early days of folk song and dance collection (plus a bit of dipping), it's already clear that my memory of it as a very well written book was accurate, and that it was designed to examine the unstated assumptions that we all make. The idea of "folk" is not at all simple, as witness any of the many centrifugal discussions in Mudcat threads. Had I read the book back in the early 1970s, I would have been spared a great deal of misapprehension, and my selection of music might well have been both more open and more critically selective. It helped me to realise, for example, the social background to some of the attitudes in English dance circles that I found repellent at the time. Don't let the occasional outbreak of 1990s academic lingo ("privileged", "semiotic" and so forth) put you off. It was probably the only way to get through the academic gatekeepers when Postmodernism was all the rage. I'm looking forward to re- reading the later chapters, which IIRC cover the period when I first acquired a taste for the music. If anyone is so itching to read it that they can't wait for the promised new edition, I'd be willing to lend it (local to Derbyshire UK and with dreadful oaths sworn to return it)- just put up your personal email in some suitably obfuscated form. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: r.padgett Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:20 PM I appear to have hit a rich seem of interest! I found only one review and that was from Fay Hield, although very likely that there are also learned and not so learned reviews about too Ray May get in touch Jim re hard backed copy (when is the reprint due and is it in paperback? I wonder?) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Rabukoo Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:14 PM Damn, I hadn't realised it was so rare. I'd better rub out all the pencil marks I made over my dad's copy when I was using it for my dissertation a few years ago! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: concertina ceol Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:09 PM I must be have a weird five minutes - mushrooms and cheese at lunch? - as I thought this thread was about our imagined perfect folk village....... eg. village pump on the green, shire horses coming home after a long day ploughing, spring sunshine, morris men and peace and tranquiity.... .... I haven't got the book... although I will, if it is republished.... going for lie down now......... apologies |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Surreysinger Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:20 PM If we're playing the "I've got a copy" game - so have I, although in this case it's a paperback one, bought at the time that it was published! Thinks ... must take better care of it in view of all the above! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: masato sakurai Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:11 PM I got a hardcover copy some 10 years ago. One of the most stimulating and interesting folksong books ever. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Susanne (skw) Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:45 PM As I haven't read it I'm looking forward to getting a copy of the new edition - me, too, hoping for affordable paperback. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:37 PM I'm glad to hear that a new edition is planned. It's very difficult to get hold of, and I've been looking for a copy for several years without success. I've borrowed it from the library occasionally, but it's the sort of thing that you need readily to hand if you're serious about the subject. It's an important work, though obviously you don't have to agree with everything it says. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: jimL Date: 11 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM Hello Ray, I've got a hardback copy in VGC, with dust jacket. Ex library stock. Email me if you are interested in it - book@jimlawton.info - cheers, Jim |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: r.padgett Date: 11 Jun 07 - 03:05 PM Hello Mr Eyre! Expected you here (how are you?) If you can't get 'em can't be many about Good to hear it is being reprinted hopefully in affordable paperback, Georgina? Ray |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 11 Jun 07 - 01:50 PM Dear Ms Boyes, Actually, I hate the idea of burning books and my remarks were intemperate. In fact, I haven't even burned Dave Harker's book ... although it richly deserves to be burned!! I will re-read your book now - and see if 14 years "makes an alteration". |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Folkiedave Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:37 AM Speaking from my perspective as a S/H bookseller I have only ever had one copy and it went (at what I thought was a very reasonable price) to someone who was writing a Ph.D. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:05 AM And yes, we are hoping to bring out a new edition later this year. Georgina |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes Date: 11 Jun 07 - 10:00 AM "Revival collectors' actions must, of course, be considered in the light of contemporary, rather than late twentieth-century, attitudes. In such a highly stratified society, was what appears to us today as widespread exploitation - or at least patronisation of performers necessarily felt to be so at the time? .... Genuine regard seems to pervade the letters from Cecil Sharp's informants published in his biography and some of them certainly maintained an exchange of correspondence - and gifts - with him over a period of years." The Imagined Village, p. 53. Are you sure you read the book before you burnt it? Georgina |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:59 AM Pity that I felt moved to burn my copy - along with Dave Harker's noxious 'Fakelore' (that didn't burn very well after I'd pissed on it!). There's nothing worse than the 'oh-so-scholarly' rantings of 'prolier-than-thou', middle class academics. I believe that these two books did untold damage to the reputations of the great Edwardian folk song collectors and to the Folk Revival. At the end of the day it's not very scientific to judge the actions of people who lived several generations ago by today's standards. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Surreysinger Date: 11 Jun 07 - 08:37 AM I understood from a conversation with Georgina some little while ago that a revised edition of the book may be in the pipeline - but I don't recall any timing for publication being mentioned. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive) Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:52 AM I borrowed a copy from my local library after finding the book was fetching £40 or so secondhand. If you're lucky (or live in Manchester!) you may be able to do the same. It's a good read, but not forty quid's worth of a good read. Debunks a few myths about folk music, the folk revival etc quite nicely... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: Mick Pearce (MCP) Date: 11 Jun 07 - 06:16 AM I've got the hardback edition Ray - Manchester University Press (Oxford Road Manchester M13 9PL), 1993, ISBN 0 7190 2914 7. (I just had a look at bookfinder.com and there are none listed for sale currently). Mick |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:49 AM Paperback printed in 1993 - ISBN 0 7190 4571 1 - price new about £13.99 |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,padgett Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:34 AM Thanks Ray |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,PMB Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:32 AM I've got a paperback copy, about 10-15 years old, I'll look up the publisher tonight. Good book. |
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Subject: Folklore: The Imagined Village From: GUEST,Ray Padgett Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:06 AM This book by Georgina Boyes appears to rather scarce (I think it was expensive too) on Manchester University Press I think in Hardback only Any one got one? Ray |
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