Salman Rushdie - Outrage.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:21 AM

Just read the thread, Ron. The evidence is all around you. Every time something like this happens, the result is always the same... huge numbers of people people start jumping on the "hate all Muslims" bandwagon. If the US and the UK weren't so deeply involved in the wholesale slaughter of Muslims in more than one country at the present time, something like this might be taken for a coincidence. But with the UK being a part of the aggression against Iraqis and Afghans, as well as participating in beating the war drums for a nuclear attack on Iran, any time we see the kind of result we're seeing with this particular episode - a drastic increase in hate rhetoric against Muslims, we need to consider the likelihood that we are being softened up for some new act of aggression that our governments are planning against Muslim countries.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:13 AM

Well said, Ron.

It is not Muslims doing the talking for Islam. It's a few maniacs--religious leaders who spew hatred and ambassadors from governments that are up to their necks in terrorist activities. It is for them there is no excuse. The tired 'burn the flag' and denounce the west garbage is getting old. Condemn the west for a war that is killing innocents; condemn the west for its greed. But condemn those leaders in your own realm who are no better. I really wonder how many Muslims could say what they really think and still be alive the next day. Many have no option but silence. And many have the choice yet say nothing!

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:08 AM

Carol--

The idea that giving the honor to Rushdie is "Moslem baiting" is, so far, no more than your theory. Please provide some evidence.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:05 AM

What Rushdie wrote--and writes--is literature. It's not Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And regardless of the terrible influence that book had, I would suspect that very few Westerners would feel even its author--who provided propaganda which was used for the most evil of purposes--should be killed for writing it. And if Russia, for instance, had chosen to honor its author, the West, while condemning the idea, would still have not put a price on the author's head.   And anybody who did would be harshly criticized--or arrested.

Civilization must mean something-----and it sounds like some Mudcatters are finding excuses for barbarism.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:02 AM

"That sense of injury was felt by Moslems who are in no way extreme, including those who are horrified at then very notion of death threats. "

It would be great to hear from some of those folks. (The average guy in Iran and Pakistan doesn't get too much press. And the average woman in Iran and Pakistan doesn't really get any.) But I don't think that'll happen anytime soon. Unfortunately.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:02 AM

Ron, one doesn't avoid engaging in Muslim baiting (or any kind of racial or ethnic baiting, for that matter) to protect the extremists, such as the ones who issued or who support the fatwas. One rejects the practice of Muslim baiting to protect the Muslims who do not agree with the fatwas, and those who support them, from the kind of generalized hatred of all Muslims and all forms of Islam that we see so amply demonstrated here in this thread.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:59 PM

Rushdie has received awards from several countries, including India.
The India-Pakistan tensions perhaps contributed to Pakistan's condemnation of the knighthood.

It should be noted that Rushdie is a graduate of Kings College, Cambridge.
He has also written children's books, one of which received the Writers Guild of Great Britain Award.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:59 PM

Fair point, Bill. Let me rephrase...


"I suspect, in being given this honor, Mr. Rushdie is getting long-due recognition for his services to the U.K. government in the form of Muslim-baiting. The exquisite irony of which is the fact that awarding him this honor looks like a rather spectacular instance of Muslim-baiting, and if so, an extremely successful one, if the majority of responses in this thread are any indication."

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Ron Davies
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:54 PM

Any Moslems who don't like Rushdie being honored are welcome to choose not to honor him in their countries. They are not welcome to put a price on his head--and it's amazing to read any excuses for their doing so--or far-fetched theories about how the UK planned to outrage Moslems.

If Mudcatters can't realize that there is absolutely no excuse for killing an author just for what he has written, it does not speak well for those who don't realize this.

If those on the left of center feel the UK government should not have honored Rushdie for fear of what a small segment of Moslems--by no means representative of Islam-- might think, they (left of center Westerners) need to think about what freedom of the press is.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:45 PM

"I suspect, in being given this honor, Mr. Rushdie is getting long-due recognition for his services to the U.K. government in the form of Muslim-baiting. The exquisite irony of which is the fact that awarding him this honor is, in itself, a rather spectacular instance of Muslim-baiting, and an extremely successful one, if the majority of responses in this thread are any indication."

'suspect' is meant to apply to the ENTIRE paragraph? Seemed to me the 2nd sentence went well beyond 'suspect'...but who am I to read your mind and assume too much....

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:36 PM

Obscure writer?
Long reviews of his books appeared in the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times and other organs reviewing new literature. "Satanic Verses" was on the best seller lists; it is available from all good bookstores in the paperback edition.

The Viking-Penguin (London) signed 1st printing of 1988 already is over $500 for a fine copy and the U. S. signed 1st is over $400. Unfortunately, mine is the second printing.

His "Shalimar the Clown" traces the development of a clown into an Islamic terrorist; it is a book that should be widely read (paperback editions available).

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:34 PM

'IRAN TO PERFORM SALMAN RUSHDIE KNIGHTHOOD
      
IRAN last night offered to perform Sir Salman Rushdie's forthcoming knighthood ceremony saying recent television footage suggested the Queen was no longer "up to the job".



A traditional Iranian 'knighting sword'Mohammad Al Inseini, a spokesman for the Iranian government, said the Queen had taken up to three goes with her sword during recent ceremonies – and still failed to even draw blood.

He described the scenes as "shocking and barbaric" and said Iran had a number of well-trained professionals who could deal with the Satanic Verses author "in a oner".

Mr Al Inseini said: "Your Queen is a fine old lady who knows how to strangle a pheasant. There is no shame in her passing the sword to a younger man."

He said the Iranian government would happily supply its own top ceremonial swordsman, Al-Bert Pierrepoint, for the occasion.

"We promise you that with Al-Bert in charge Rushdie's knighthood will be conferred upon him swiftly and humanely," he said.

Mr Inseini said Iran would welcome the author to Tehran for a mass outdoor ceremony, but could also send its sword specialist to Buckingham Palace if that was easier.

Ejit Ul-Haq, editor of the Islamabad-based magazine Executions and Executioners, said that Pierrepoint was one of Iran's top swordsmen with a good eye, a firm grip, and a sharp blade.

"Al-Bert knows exactly what to do when someone kneels before him, and is very used to performing in front of crowds," he said. "He also has a huge chopper."'

from The Daily Mash

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:27 PM

From the same article...


He added that it would be for the main committee to assess any other aspects of the honour. The Foreign Office is represented on the main committee by the permanent secretary, whose job it would be to raise any potential international ramifications...

.....

...Pakistan's foreign minister, Kurshid Kasuri, said on a visit to Washington that Britain could not have been surprised by the outrage.

The chairman of the all-party group on Pakistan, the Conservative MP Stewart Jackson, also attacked the decision to knight Rushdie. "We do not need a situation where we are gratuitously offending our allies in the fight against terror," he told the ePolitix website. "I think the prime minister's office should think very carefully about that decision."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2106965,00.html

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:04 PM

"Duncan Campbell and Julian Borger
Wednesday June 20, 2007
The Guardian


The committee that recommended Salman Rushdie for a knighthood did not discuss any possible political ramifications and never imagined that the award would provoke the furious response that it has done in parts of the Muslim world, the Guardian has learnt.
It also emerged yesterday that the writers' organisation that led the lobbying for the author of Midnight's Children and The Satanic Verses to be knighted had originally hoped that the honour would lead to better relations between Britain and Asia."

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 10:00 PM

Good.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:58 PM

I have absolutely nothing to indicate or say to you.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:43 PM

Interesting smear tactic. However, you still haven't indicated how you know the feelings of the average Iranian or Pakistani on this matter if they do know about it. This just looks to me like an attempt to spread hatred using the scattershot method.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:35 PM

No one ever knows.

We Didn't Know
Words and Music by Tom Paxton
We didn't know said the Burgomeister,
About the camps on the edge of town.
It was Hitler and his crew,
That tore the German nation down.
We saw the cattle cars it's true,
And maybe they carried a Jew or two.
They woke us up as they rattled through,
But what did you expect me to do?

[Cho:]
We didn't know at all,
We didn't see a thing.
You can't hold us to blame,
What could we do?
It was a terrible shame,
But we can't bear the blame.
Oh no, not us, we didn't know.

We didn't know said the congregation,
Singing a hymn in a church of white.
The Press was full lf lies about us,
Preacher told us we were right.
The outside agitators came.
They burned some churches and put the blame,
On decent southern people's names,
To set our colored people aflame.
And maybe some of our boys got hot,
And a couple of niggers and reds got shot,
They should have stayed where they belong,
And preacher would've told us if we'd done wrong.

[Cho:]

We didn't know said the puzzled voter,
Watching the President on TV.
I guess we've got to drop those bombs,
If we're gonna keep South Asia free.
The President's such a peaceful man,
I guess he's got some kind of plan.
They say we're torturing prisoners of war,
But I don't believe that stuff no more.
Torturing prisoners is a communist game,
And You can bet they're doing the same.
I wish this war was over and through,
But what do you expect me to do?

[Cho:]

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:11 PM

Why does that not cause outrage in Iran and Pakistan?

How do you know how the average Iranian or Pakistani feels about it? Or if they even know about it?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:09 PM

TODAY!

"Oxfam pulls out of largest Darfur refugee camp, citing attacks on aid workers
Submitted by Bill Weinberg on Tue, 06/19/2007 - 20:05.
International aid agency Oxfam has announced it is pulling out of Gereida, the largest camp in Darfur, where more than 130,000 have sought refuge. The agency cited inaction by local authorities from the Sudan Liberation Movement (SLM), which controls the region, in addressing security convers and violence against aid workers. Oxfam urged the international community to do more to pressure all parties to the Darfur conflict to end attacks on civilians and aid workers."

And these dumb fucks are worried about a guy who wrote a book?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:01 PM

Why does that not cause outrage in Iran and Pakistan? Or in the rest of the world for that matter?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 09:00 PM

"An estimated 180,000 people have died and 2 million have been displaced in the ongoing humanitarian crisis in the Darfur region of western Sudan where militias have targeted civilians in attacks the United Nations warns could rival the 1994 genocide in Rwanda in which more than 800,000 people died.

"The people of Darfur are suffering a catastrophe -- terrible crimes have been committed against them," U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has said.

The killings of mostly black African Muslims have been blamed on an Arab militia known as the Janjaweed. Like their victims, the Janjaweed are Muslim, but are accused of ethnic atrocities, including burning and destroying villages in parts of Darfur and of slaughtering men, women and children."

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 08:49 PM

I said "suspect" bill. That is somewhat short of a direct accusation. And I do suspect it, as I suspect the government of the US of fomenting hatred of Muslims for political reasons. The results (many hundreds of thousands of dead Muslims) are too obvious to ignore. It's far easier for people to accept their governments' killing of groups of people if the citizens are convinced that those who are being killed deserve killing.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 08:26 PM

"By their fruits"

That is a pretty short, ambiguous answer....but...I assume you suggest that you...that is, *YOU* 'can' extract motivation and/or mindset from behavior. I congratulate you...I cannot. I have been suspicious in many cases, and could make guesses, but I have also been mistaken.

I usually try to restrict my accusations and condemnations to behavior, in so far as *I* find it inappropriate. I have had my own motives called into question on occasion, and had to simply leave the 'discussion' when the issue became whether or not I 'thought' a certain way...(they were wrong).

"Congratulations to the government of the U.K.! Brilliant plan indeed!" ....I doubt it. It may be a very bad move, but a PLAN to 'bait Muslims'?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:58 PM

282RA, please show me where I have excused the behavior of the extremists.


I draw your attention to this post of mine, which you seem to somehow have missed...

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC - PM
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:15 PM

By their fruits, Bill.

One doesn't avoid engaging in Muslim baiting (or any kind of racial or ethnic baiting, for that matter) to protect the extremists, such as the ones who issued or who support the fatwas. One rejects the practice of Muslim baiting to protect the Muslims who do not agree with the fatwas, and those who support them, from the kind of generalized hatred of all Muslims and all forms of Islam that we see so amply demonstrated here in this thread.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:53 PM

It doesn't matter if it was Muslim-baiting or not (and that's just your opinion), that doesn't excuse the behavior of Muslim extremists threatening violence. Goddamn it, all the man did was write one fucking book--ONE FUCKING BOOK--and they want to kill him over it.

Bearded Bruce is right. You people excuse their hatred and violence (and you do so don't bother denying it) but condemn it in yourselves. That is patronizing. That is saying that you are morally superior to them and hence you do not EXPECT them to understand anything as clearly as you do and so we must not do anything that will irritate the little buggers.

While my own moral ground is weak when I say that Muslims over here need to behave better and understand I don't give a shit about sharia when we're invading their lands and blowing the shit aout of everything that moves, I still expect the Muslims over here to behave. They're people, they're adults--I expect them to act mature and civilized even when I don't. And I expect them to expect the same of me.

If the Queen wants to knight Salman Rushdie, then so be it. Just accept it because that's how it is. This idea that I'm going to kill him or pay somebody to kill him because a book I don't like is bullshit and it's inexcusable and abominable behavior. It's unacceptable in any country that considers itself civilized.

Yes, America and Britain need a good arse-kicking and they are getting one. But civilized human being needs to act like a civilized human being no matter where he lives or under what circumstances.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:47 PM

There is no question but that the Satanic Verses is indeed "blasphemous" for Moslems, and that Salman Rushdie, as a Moslem (and only a Moslem could have written the book) was aware of this. The question has always been, what is the right response which people should make when a book is published which is blasphemous in terms of their religion and felt as deeply offensive.

I think that most people would agree that the way that book burning and threats of death are not the right way, and that that response did a great deal of harm, not least to Moslems. It is right to challenge that response. But what is not right is to underestimate the extent of the sense of injury which induced it. That sense of injury was felt by Moslems who are in no way extreme, including those who are horrified at then very notion of death threats.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:19 PM

I think I've said all I need to say here in this thread, Mr. MacKenzie.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 07:15 PM

By their fruits, Bill.

One doesn't avoid engaging in Muslim baiting (or any kind of racial or ethnic baiting, for that matter) to protect the extremists, such as the ones who issued or who support the fatwas. One rejects the practice of Muslim baiting to protect the Muslims who do not agree with the fatwas, and those who support them, from the kind of generalized hatred of all Muslims and all forms of Islam that we see so amply demonstrated here in this thread.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:42 PM

I forgot the worst one of the lot - Sir bloody Elton!

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:40 PM

Ahem. I do like the idea that our glorious nation can honour its citizens who do public good. But I look at the MBEs and OBEs and see some genuine people who've done genuine good by sheer hard graft and I'm inspired and uplifted. Then I look at the CBEs and the knighthoods and, by and large, I see big businessmen, wealthy lords, and lucky millionaires such as Sir bloody Cliff, Sir bloody Bob, Sir bloody Alan, Sir bloody Paul, Sir bloody Mick and who's that scruffy sod who runs Virgin and is so bored with life that he has to fly silly balloons around the world, I forget his name.   To be honest, if I were Sir Salman I'd say to the queer old dean at the sword-swatting ceremony that I'll settle for an MBE, old girl - I really don't fancy joining the wealthy toadie brigade! Let's keep the whole silly charade in proportion! :-)

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:31 PM

Well no surprise to see you here Carol, I wondered when you would show. Mr Rushdie has not indulged in Muslim baiting, the book which caused the original Fatwah, The Satanic Verses was published without any comment, until a group of Muslims in the English Midlands, somewhere like Bradford I think, declared it to be blasphemous. This ties in with Bill D's post above. Up till those people decided it was an insult to Islam, nobody had taken much notice of the book, and it certainly wasn't a book written with the intent of insulting anybody.
Salman Rushdie is I believe an apostate, one who converted from Islam to another religion, apostasy is forbidden, and punishable by death in Islam, so he was never going to get a fair hearing was he?
He has throughout maintained a dignified silence on the subject, and has not commented or retaliated in any way as far as I know, against those who threatened his life on a whim.
I suggest you read this ONE book which has been the cause of all the anger against him from Islamic fundamentalists, and then you come back and make an INFORMED post on the subject.
Giok

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:24 PM

It's dangerous to assume motivation....call it foolish, but take care 2nd guessing what was intended.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:18 PM

I suspect, in being given this honor, Mr. Rushdie is getting long-due recognition for his services to the U.K. government in the form of Muslim-baiting. The exquisite irony of which is the fact that awarding him this honor is, in itself, a rather spectacular instance of Muslim-baiting, and an extremely successful one, if the majority of responses in this thread are any indication.

Congratulations to the government of the U.K.! Brilliant plan indeed!

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 06:00 PM

I don't think anyone is suggesting handing over a knighthood to anybody. Apart from those who think that handing one to Salman Rushdie was a good idea.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:58 PM

no, it's narrow-minded..(as I said) hateful, arrogant...etc..but what good is it to think up lists of adjectives?

I'm just trying to understand HOW it works.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:52 PM

Is it merely idiocy when some authority figure orders the death of someone? Robertson is an idiot. An Imam or Ayatollah who orders the death of another is something more than an idiot.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:44 PM

Idiocy and narrow-minded attitudes come in many, many flavors. One of the problems with idiocy in Islam is that there is little central authority to stand up and say "behave yourselves!" It has become culturally accepted among zealots to listen to ANY local Imam who issues a call to "kill Americans and anyone else *I* claim has insulted Mohammed".....as long as the sane, quiet Muslims are afraid to defy and/or condemn violence, it will continue...
....and as long as wild-eyed young people can be convinced thru nis-reading of the Koran that Paradise awaits those who commit suicide in the name of some whim of a radical cleric, it will not only continue, it will get worse.

You cannot negotiate or explain anything to those who BELIEVE you are evil.

Even Musharrif in Pakistan is afraid to directly condemn violence against Westerners.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: GUEST,Ian cookieless
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:43 PM

What I don't get is why some contributors to this thread can't see that Pakistan and all their fundamentalist ilk are behaving like a brutal father, husband, school bully or gangster: "Do exactly as I say and don't upset me or I'll beat the shit out of you."

Now it's true that many western countries have done or still do behave this way. That doesn't make it OK for us or for other countries to do it.

And I can't see that being fearful (or just plain sloppy-headed) and just handing over your money, brains, freedom, will and knighthood to a fascist bully is the best way forward.

Mmmmm. If it is, then everyone on this thread send me $1,000,000 or I'll send the boys round with bombs strapped to their sorry asses.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:42 PM

As Don said, there are plenty of Muslims who are horrified and disgusted by this kind of fanaticism. But this knighthood business has just made it a lot harder for them trying to make some headway against the True Believers.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:34 PM

Before we go off totally half-cocked here, I'd like to mention that I've heard a number of interviews with Muslims who are absolutely horrified and disgusted by what Muslim extremists are advocating and doing. They point out that you can comb through the Koran and cherry-pick verses, ignoring context, to justify whatever atrocity you want to commit.

Of course, one should not forget that the same holds true for Christian extremists who cherry-pick verses from the Bible.

How much are you going to let someone else's irrationality dominate the course of your life?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:32 PM

Robertson is an idiot. But he did not order the death of Chavez. He foolishly commented that it would be a good thing, but he did not order it. Nor is his "religion" one where anyone misunderstood it as an "order" like a fatwah. If anyone did misunderstand it, it was exactly that -- misunderstood.

The problem is not how "fundamental" a religion is. The problem is what the fundamentals are.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:11 PM

There are two Islams. The Islam of the common people and the Islam of the idiots, just as there seems to be two Christianities. I have NO respect for fundamentalists in either. When that arsehole (Robertson?) said it would be good to kill Chavez, many people supporting this bullshit from Iran and Pakistan talked against Robertson. So what's the friggin' difference all of a sudden? Two-faced is what it is.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:05 PM

Reformation? The history of the Sixteenth Century is full of parallels with the religious fanaticism and extremism that has been seen in the Islamic World as True Believers have set out to eliminate what they see as the laxity which has crept into their religion, and to purify it by going back to their version of Islam.   

When the Taliban destroyed those ancient Buddhist monumental statues, that was an echo of what happened in various parts of Europe in Cathedrals and churches as they were "cleansed of idolatry".

One shouldn't read too much into dates, but in the Islamic calendar the year is 1428.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 05:00 PM

The West, as usual, has it backwards. We go to the Middle East where we show the people there no respect for their laws or culture but instead torture and kill them by the thousands. But when the Muslims here start bombing and shooting people over the most trivial crap imaginable, we're supposed to respect their customs.

No, over there we must respect their customs. Over here, they respect ours. If they don't, I say deport the filthy lot of them. When you're in my house, you damned well better behave yourself and if you don't then get the fuck out.

But we must not bend to Muslim threats of violence over those things that we do here in the West or they will simply resort to it every single time until we finally get the balls to kick them out of our borders.

I don't want it to come to that but if we don't stop this idiotic "we must respect their feelings" care-bear crap, that's what it will come down to.

I do not understand how we can crack down so hard on Muslims over there and run off like scared dogs from the Muslim extremists over here.

Here's my message to Muslims extremists in the West: Take your fucking asshole prophet and GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:54 PM

He is very famous in the UK - for all the wrong reasons. And, of course, I'm sure many book-shops world-wide have not stocked his books for fear of extremist reactions!

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:53 PM

'In a second day of small-scale street protests, more than 100 supporters of various religious groups demonstrated in front of the press club in the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore. About two dozen followers of a Sunni Muslim group chanted "Hang Salman Rushdie," while Shiite activists torched a British flag and chanted "Down with U.K.!"

In the southern city of Karachi, about two dozen supporters of a religious political party chanted "Death to Salman Rushdie!" and burned an effigy of the author.'

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:51 PM

The British say no, Iran and Pakistan say yes.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM

GUEST,meself - Islamic extremists say that it was done deliberately. I can't, for one moment, imagine that is true but concertina ceol made the point that he is a fairly obscure author. I haven't read anything written by him (not that that means a lot!). You're right though - it would make a difference to me too.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM

"...the trouble is the Muslims are still bang in the middle of their Reformation."

Exactly where is the sign of that?