BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:55 PM

I agree with you about the term "BuShite", BB. It's another great example of the kind of thing I was objecting to. All those kind of terms are used to instantly dismiss and stigmatize other people. The terms "racist" and "sexist" are often used that way too...as cheap shots, and there is no effective way of defending oneself against being accused of being a racist or a sexist...or a BuShite.

"those people should be forced to listen to a listing of their faults until they run screaming from the thread"

Hey, that's what we have our "significant others" and close relatives for, isn't it? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ythanside
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:51 PM

Little Hawk, I'm upset. What have little green men done to piss you off?

Signed: Little Green Man

:-D

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:45 PM

You are certainly entitiled to your opinion.

I object to the term "BuShite", because it is a standard expression used by those who wish to ridicule people with whom they do not agree about a certain subject.


I also object to being told WHAT I think, when the person making the accusation has not even read what I have stated in the past, much less asked what I thought about whatever the topic is.

IMO, those people should be forced to listen to a listing of their faults until they run screaming from the thread. But I do not care to inflict that on the other people here.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 03:40 PM

As I've told you, BB, you really need to get a job with CNN. Or Fox. Or NBC. You're not getting paid nearly enough for the efforts you put in here on a daily basis, keeping us all informed.

I object to the term "little green men", because it is a standard expression used by those who wish to ridicule people with whom they do not agree about a certain subject. I similarly object to the terms "conspiracy theory" and "tinfoil hat", as they are used the same way. People who regularly use those terms to ridicule others should be made to walk naked through the raspberry bushes, whilst being pelted with fresh goose shit (in my opinion).

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 02:16 PM

LH,

"And that applies to "little green men" too."

1. They are reddish brown, not green.

2. They have as much ( no more OR less) right to be here as Chongo does.

3. The point is, if the POSSIBLE is to be considered, regardless of LIKELIHOOD, than the "aliens did it" is JUST as valid as the conspiracy theories with no proof. All most are asking for here is PROOF, not "it could have happeened, so that must be what happened."
What has been offered has been looked at, and found wanting, IMHO.

Can I PROVE that it was NOT a conspiracy? NO.
Can YOU PROVE that it was NOT aliens? Again, NO.

But both are in the highly unlikely catagory until SOME real evidence is presented.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 02:08 PM

Because S/HE is not afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 02:04 PM

Sooo sweet,

why then do you change your name with each new thread you start about the same theme?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 01:35 PM

Couldn't care less if "they" find me, Wolfgang. You from Germany? Would you have wanted to live under Hitler? Fuck the fascists. I'm ready to deal with them anytime, anywhere. More Germans should have adopted that attitude, rather than fleeing the country. Americans have freedom of speech, but a freedom not used doesn't exist.

So what about the time discrepancies, folks? Official version is these men were caught in the building at 10:28 a.m. But now it comes out they were in the building much earlier and saw/heard/felt/were injured by a bomb blast inside WTC7.

Since 9/11, the U.S. govt has shown itself to be gangster-controlled. The gangsters have announced pre-emptive nuclear strikes as an international policy, and at home they've said we have no more Bill of Rights or habeas corpus, and we can be disappeared at any time for "suspected" terrorism (terrorism is defined by the PATRIOT Act as the breaking of any federal or state law), and once you're disappeared you can be legally tortured to death. That's what Bush and the Democrats have put in place in America. Because it's a "post 9/11 world." I protested my taxes this year, and in some states that would have put me on the terrorist watch list.

9/11 is the pivotal event. I listened to 5 minutes of facist talk show host Sean Hannity yesterday, and he was talking about immigration "reform" which will "make the country safe." One of his (or someone's) schemes is to turn over all immigrant-status checks to Visa/Mastercard/American Express. Let them thumbscan to determine identity. Hannity said the govt should be doing this, then he snorted and said, "but you know how the government is." So, his alternative is to turn over governmental responsibilities to private business. That's raw, unapologetic fascism--the merging of business and government. The gangsters who control the U.S. and other western nations created the "event," and they've been backing us towards concentration camps ever since.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 01:21 PM

I thought I requested no more smartass tinfoil hat jokes. And that applies to "little green men" too. Please.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Becca72
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:28 AM

Wolfgang, they'll never find him/her....he/she has the tinfoil hat on.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:05 AM

Sooo sweet,

why do you change your name with each new thread you start about the same theme? Do you think they will not be able to get at you this way?? You're wrong. They are already on your trail.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 02:00 AM

Let me be more clear.

The official story says these men were trapped inside WTC7 at 10:28, when the north tower fell. But the witness says the bomb went off before either tower fell. And, he says the bomb in WTC7 went off before plane #2 hit.

Plane #1 hit at 8:45 a.m.
Plane #2 hit at 9:03 a.m.

So these guys were in the building much earlier than was earlier reported. And WTC7 was not damaged by any "falling debris" at that point.

So, sometime between 8:45 and 9:03, a bomb blew out the 6th floor landing they were on. Then the second plane struck, then the towers fell.

That's the biggest timeline discrepancy. Why was there an explosion in WTC7 between 8:45 and 9:03?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 01:30 AM

But look at the gap in time...they went up into the bldg sometime before 10 and were trapped at 10:28. ...they remained for more than half an hour?

I don't see a time gap. If you're asking what they did during that thirty minutes, you're forgetting that elevators are always turned OFF in emergencies. I don't know about you, but it would probably take me the better part of thirty minutes just to climb 23 flights of stairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:16 AM

No, Ebbie, the times are off. There was a lot of confusion on that day, so the "authorities" have gotten away with a lot due to the chaos. And the false WTC7 timeline is one of the lies they put out. According to what I just posted, the men were trapped in the bldg due to the collapsing towers, etc. That's been the story for years. But look at the gap in time...they went up into the bldg sometime before 10 and were trapped at 10:28. Those aren't stupid men. They could see the place was evacuated. They should have evacuated too. But they remained for more than half an hour?

That timeline has always seemed odd. Now the truth comes out. They picked up a phone and called to ask where everyone was, and they were told to get out quick. On the way down, the 6th floor landing was blown out. And this was BEFORE EITHER OF THE TOWERS FELL. Before plane #2 hit, even. Hence, a bomb went off.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:07 AM

"One of them has decided to tell the truth"? What am I missing here? The link you give is word for word the paragraph you posted.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 11:59 PM

Looks like one of these guys may be the witness to the explosion in WTC7 on the morning of 9/11:

Most of Building 7 of the World Trade Center was evacuated around the time the South Tower was hit (see (9:03 a.m.) September 11, 2001). However, firefighters find three individuals who have become trapped inside it. Among them are Barry Jennings, a City Housing Authority worker, and Mike Hess, New York's chief lawyer who is also a longtime friend of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani. The two had gone up to the 23rd floor headquarters of the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management some time before 10 a.m., but found it empty. (It was evacuated at 9:30 a.m.; see 9:30 a.m. September 11, 2001.) They headed downstairs but became trapped around the sixth floor by smoke and debris that filled the staircase as a result of the North Tower collapsing at 10:28 a.m. After breaking a window and calling for help, they were spotted by firefighters outside. When the firefighters go in, they also find a security officer for one of the businesses based in the building, who is trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. Why this guard did not evacuate earlier, along with the rest of WTC 7, is unknown. All three men are escorted out of the building.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

So, the story Hess and the two others were telling was that there was "smoke and debris" preventing them from leaving the building. Good team players, they stuck to the script. But something has changed. One of them has decided to tell the truth. Interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 11:25 PM

You don't rise high in the ranks of the CIA, Military Intelligence, and Black Ops by being an incompetent. You do it by being smart, efficient, and completely ruthless, following orders, and keeping your mouth shut....and making sure other people keep their mouths shut as well. Whatever it takes to do it.

At least, that's what I've heard...can't say I have any personal experience in the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:32 PM

George Schultze, James Baker, Henry Kissinger, etc....hardly incompetents.

And Peter T., 9/11 is the event that led to our wholesale loss of rights. It is the event that everyone remembers, so it is the event that needs to be highlighted. No one can remember that we lost habeas corpus in the John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007, but everyone remembers GWBush saying we're going to get Ossama bin Laden for 9/11. Expose the big lie and all the others will be exposed too.

The 9/11 proof of government involvement is so overwhelming, and it just keeps piling up higher every day. Just yesterday Judicial Watch got FBI documents showing that the bin Laden family was allowed to skip the country after 9/11. The govt's been denying this up til now:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_6322.shtml

Anyway, Steven Jones' article on the thermate spheres is on the web if anyone wants to read the research paper. The link below leads to a page with a video of him presenting the evidence. Lots of other interesting and damning stories at the link too.

http://www.northtexansfor911truth.com/

9/11 Debunkers Hide From Slam Dunk Evidence Of Controlled Demolition

Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site proves thermate, proves collapse of twin towers was an act of deliberate arson.

Professor Steven Jones presented brand new and compelling evidence for the controlled demolition of the twin towers and WTC 7 recently, but the 9/11 debunkers and the corporate media are loathe to tackle it because it represents a slam dunk on proving the collapse of the buildings was a deliberate act of arson.

Jones detailed his lab experiments in which he attempted to replicate NIST's conclusion that the lava like orange material flowing out of the south tower is aluminum from Flight 175, the plane that hit the building. Jones clearly documents the fact that liquid aluminum is silver and not orange as is seen in the video of the south tower, therefore the material cannot be aluminum. Jones then explains that the material is in fact a compound that can cut through steel like a hot knife through butter, thermite with sulphur added to make thermate.

The crux of the fresh evidence revolves around newly uncovered globules or spheres that were discovered at the WTC site that Professor Jones was able to obtain and run a electron microscope analysis on.

The spheres contained iron and aluminum, which would be expected in any steel sample, but also sulphur which is a by-product of a thermate reaction.

So having moved from a hypothesis that thermate was used to bring down the towers from using video footage and debunking the aluminum explanation of NIST, Jones now has empirical scientific proof, undertaken under laboratory conditions, that thermate was indeed used as an artificial explosive at the World Trade Center.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,Gza
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:41 PM

Well, that's a possibility, Don. But what if the planning and the executing of 911 was done by professionals who are far better at their job than the principal members of the Bush administration? What if the Bush administration are just a bunch of stuffed dummies for the public to focus on? What if the overall planning was done by black ops professionals who are working for the people who own both the Democratic and Republican parties, and who were just as much behind the Clinton administration as they are behind the Bush administration...and who will, no doubt, be behind the next administration of stuffed dummies...whether or not it is a Democratic or a Republican administration.

I'm not talking about people who are seeking another measly 4 years in office. I'm not talking about people you will ever get to vote for. No, I am talking about people who run grand international strategy on behalf of the military-industrial complex and the energy corporations. People who topple governments and organize coups. People who set up wars and arrange assassinations. People who are versed in germ warfare, demolition, and secret weapons we haven't even heard about yet. People who are not seeking just national power, but world power.

I don't think those people are stupid at all, nor do I think they are the least bit inefficient. I just think they're insane (in my terms, but not in their own). I think they will still be around when Bush is long gone. If Hillary is elected, they will still be around, and they will still "arrange" things. If Obama is elected, ditto.

That's also a possibility, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:07 PM

amen...

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:39 PM

I am willing to believe something if I am offered some substantial proof, not just suppositions, no matter how firmly, passionately, and frequently stated. Do I believe it's possible that what GUEST-of-the-many-names keeps posting over and over and over again might be true? I believe that it is within the realm of the possible. But I also believe that it is highly unlikely.

The Bush administration blamed Saddam Hussein when most of the rest of the world blamed Osama din Laden and al Qaeda. Now, here's a thought that all of our hard-charging conspiracy theorists might consider:

Did it ever occur to you that the Bush administration is bloody clueless?

They have been flat caught--and easily so--in so many bits of hanky-panky, cheating, double-dealing, and flagrant incompetence that it stretches credibility beyond the point of the bizarre to think they could have organized something as diabolically complex as what the 9/11 conspiracy theorists claim.

After watching them in action for the past seven years, it should be fairly obvious to anyone who's been paying attention that the troupe of clowns known popularly as the Bush administration isn't sufficiently competent to organize a Halloween prank like pushing over an outhouse without tripping over their own feet and flopping into the pit themselves.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 06:56 PM

I won't be ungracious Gza. :)

It isn't a game, it is a discussion and as long as everyone keeps it on the level and not take it personally, there is no harm and we might actually beging to see things differently.

Your point that I make assumptions is a given. That was part of what I was trying to say. None of us can really keep an open mind, no matter how hard we try. The point is, we need to see in others what may be missing in ourselves.    If you look at a glass and see it half full, I should not question as to why you don't see it half empty. Somone else may wonder why neither one of us notice the glass is dirty.

We can share our OPINIONS, but we should be careful when we try to make it definitive. I've never seen anyone shot in the head so it would be hard for me to say what an exit wound should look like. While most people question it, the possibility exists that Oswald could have done it by himself. You and I, and millions of people doubt that, but it is a distinct possibility.    Some people watched the WTC fall and saw controlled explosions. I saw a huge building collapsing onto itself and the force of pressure at work. Who knows who is right?

One thing I ask everyone who believes in the controlled demolition theory - did you ever visit the WTC before 9/11?   Do you know the area and the enormity of the buildings? I think with a little personal knowledge of the site, you might be more apt to believe the so called "official" theory.

Again, no one knows. We just have to ask questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: pirandello
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:42 PM

'Dumb, smartass jokes', maybe, but just because a government might not choose to reveal all to those who demand revelation; and why should it-does not by implication suggest a sinister alternative scenario.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,Gza
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:33 PM

Well, Ron, I am pleased that you are open to some of the possibilities I mentioned about Kennedy's assassination. Yes, I made some assumptions about what you were thinking, as best I could, and apparently some of my assumptions about what you were thinking were wrong. That often happens. It's very hard to know exactly what another person is thinking on the basis of a few brief statements he makes on an internet forum, and one naturally makes assumptions....as best one can. One tries to determine what the other person is thinking.

Now don't be ungratious, okay? ;-D You said (with what sounds to me kind of like a cry of triumphant delight):

"You proved that you are making assumptions and read what you want to read."

Gosh! How shocking! Yes, of course I made assumptions. Everyone makes assumptions. What I want to read, Ron, is not necessarily what you think I want to read. You are making your own assumptions about that, and they may also be faulty. What I really want to read is that everyone in the world has finally found out exactly what happened in Dallas and on 911 too...and here is the absolute proof...and here are the signed confessions of the guilty...and no one disputes any of it any longer. That's what I want to read. I want to read that all the wars have ended, and all the soldiers are coming home. I want to read that no one is attacking anyone any longer. But I won't live long enough to ever see that happen.

Who among us is omnisicient? Not I. If I were, I would never need to make any assumptions at all, would I? If you were omniscient, you wouldn't need to either. We both make assumptions, Ron. We both err sometimes in those assumptions. That's life.

As you said, "none of us really know, and probably will never know for certain". Right. We merely suspect this or we suspect that or we suspect the other thing.

Still, it's bloody annoying to hear other people who also don't know what happened making their usual dumb smartass jokes about tinfoil hats in the middle of what ought to be a serious discussion. They enjoy ridiculing others for suspecting what they don't suspect, but the fact is...they don't know. No more than you or I do. Nobody here knows for sure, we merely have our various suspicions.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:03 PM

"My eyes tell me that in looking at the towers collapsing, the jet fuel wasn't potent enough to cause this because it was spent outside after the plane hit."

I guess each eye can view these situations differently. From the crash I saw, I can believe that the amount of fuel could have caused this because I don't think the fuel was spent outside.

"My eyes tell me that this matches every building demolition that I have seen."

My eyes see it as randowm and not controlled. The puffs appear to match what I would expect from pressure pushing downward.

Then again, it could be controlled demolition too.

Of course, none of us really know, and probably will never know for certain.   We have to keep asking but we should not be foolish enough to buy into theories that we have not fully explored and looked at the counter-evidence.

Yet, this brings hours of endless fun for posters on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: pirandello
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:46 PM

Who said the Pentagon plane only made a nine-foot hole? Take a look at the picture of the building in the official report and you'll see devastation and collapse from floor to roof.

Personally I don't really care which bunch of murderous lunatics was involved; whether it was Bu$hco or the Saudis we'll never really know.
If it was, as the tinfoil hat brigade protest, an inside job then that will never be made public and no amount of digging by sensationalist film-makers will reveal anything but innuendo and shadowy 'sources' who cannot-be-named because the men-in-black will get them-the classic Catch-22 of the conspiracy theorist.
And as for controlled explosions all I see is puffs of dust and debris; exactly what you would expect as massive amounts of air are displaced by the collapse of floors above.

Or, of course, it could have been the Knights Templar disguising the exact burial place of the Merovingian king whose lineage to Jesus was being discussed THAT VERY MOMENT by the Bilderburg Group; a sinister sect of Freemasons with links to VATICAN SECRETS which might have STUNNED the world if he had been allowed to live in 1242...

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:40 PM

" Goodman still sees her job as what it's always been, to lie and deceive,"

This comment unfortunately vitiates a valid point. Nobody really knows what happened on 911. Everyone on this thread is pissing in the wind.

But the Guest who attacks Amy Goodman has attacked the argument that is presented.

My eyes tell me that in looking at the towers collapsing, the jet fuel wasn't potent enough to cause this because it was spent outside after the plane hit.

My eyes tell me that this matches every building demolition that I have seen.

My logic tells me that the people and the physical material reduced to a powdery pulp could not come from spent jet fuel in an aircraft collision. Other planes have hit other buildings before without this outcome.

I also refuse to accept unequivocally that this was an inside job but since there has been a lack of decent evidence to substantiate the case either way, the question still remains open despite the opinions and conjectures of unknowlegeable people on this thread.

A legitimate investigation needs to be done but is not politically advantageous to Bush.
We won't see it for a while. So the thread should read, "911 could or could not be inside job".

Without evidence that is conclusive, and with attacks on individuals, the question is still up in the air. (So to speak).

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM

This is so pathetic. While the government is openly conspiring against its own citizens on the publlic record, this conspiracy nonsense goes on. What a waste of time.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:22 PM

That should read "And, of course, when the planes hit the buildings, a lot of wires were broken, and following that, when the buildings started to collapse, even more power lines (not "transformers") went, causing a lot of transformers to short out."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:16 PM

Advocates of the idea that the collapse of the WTC buildings was all a government plot often point to a film clip of what appear to be explosions at various points in one of the buildings as the floors above them begin to "pancake," and say with fierce glee, "See? See? Controlled explosions! There's your proof!" And then, they follow that with the non sequiter (leap of logic) claim that this proves that it was done by the Bush administration.

"Demolition squib blasts."

And no, they didn't "zipper," they were quite random.

Sorry, Charlie! Regarding those so-called "controlled explosions," the WTC buildings were large, and buildings that large have transformers in them, the same way any neighborhood has transformers (in neighborhoods, they look like trash cans hung up high on utility poles). During windstorms in which power lines may be whipped around and broken by falling tree branches, transformers short out and often explode. There were a lot of transformers exploding in New Orleans during hurricane Katrina, but nobody tries to claim they were "demolition squib blasts." [Oh, hey!! There's a great one for the GUEST-of-many-names to go to work on! Hurricane Katrina was a government plot! (That's just for openers. With someone as "creative" as GUEST-of-many-names, cobbling together the reasons should be no problem.)]   And, of course, when the planes hit the buildings, a lot of wires were broken, and following that, when the buildings started to collapse, even more transformers went, causing a lot of transformers to short out. And when transformers short out and start to burn before they explode, the fire can be as hot as a welding torch—and melt structural steel!

Have you ever seen a transformer explode? Pretty spectacular!

During windstorm

During snowstorm. Weight of ice on wires—the snap, shorting out a couple of transformers.

Sub-station. Transformer shorts out, mineral oil catches fire, transformer blows.

This sort of thing can be expected to happen if an aircraft as large as a airliner and loaded with fuel collides with a large building.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 02:14 PM

"Demolition squib blasts zippering down the sides of the towers"

Again, your opinion. That did not look like "demolition squib" blasts to many people.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM

"I have no idea why you find it implausible that someone might have fired shots from in front of Kennedy"

There! You proved that you are making assumptions and read what you want to read. I do believe that there was at least a second gunman and that Kennedy was shot from the front.

What you did was read your own thoughts into my comment, and if you re-read you will see that I NEVER disagreed with you.

Which proves my point, it is hard to find someone with an open mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,Gza
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 02:04 PM

Fair enough, Becca. Of course Democrats lie. Democrats and Republicans are equally adept at lying. The biggest lies are usually told by those in charge of governments. I expect little BUT lies from either the Democrats or the Republicans once they get into office, because whoever is in office pretty well HAS to lie. There's a lot to hide.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 02:02 PM

Zapruder film. Watch it. Textbook example of someone being shot from the front. But every time you see the film on television, some commentator says, "and now Oswald's third shot finishes the job." You're shown one thing but the opposite is described.

Same thing that happend on 9/11. Demolition squib blasts zippering down the sides of the towers while a commentator says, "and then the plane's jet fuel caused a total collapse."

I need to locate Steven Jones' latest research paper. Analysis of microscopic globules of hardened metal from the WTC tower sites. Globules spewed out in the collapses, hardened into spheres during the fall, then embedded in the dust. Analyzed by Jones and others, and thermate is in the samples. Aluminum, iron oxide, sulphur, phosphorous...in the exact percentages that were predicted for a thermate demolition. Incredibly damning work. Big PDF and technical, but Jones shows that from the very dust on the street, the chemical evidence of steel-cutting thermate is there. I'll look for that later.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,Gza
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:58 PM

"It is hard to find anyone with a truly open mind."

I'm fully in agreement with you on that, Ron. It's almost impossible to find anyone with a truly open mind. People's impression of anything or anyone is usually formed quite early and very quickly...after that, they simply devote further efforts to solidifying and defending their first impression.

My impression, from watching the Zapruder film, and from the comments of numerous eyewitnesses in Dealy Plaza on that day, is that some of the shots (not all of the shots) were fired from in front of the motorcade, from the grassy knoll area, and that one of those shots from the front blew out the back of Mr Kennedy's head as it exited. And yes, it does seem totally obvious...to me.

If it doesn't to you, well, there's nothing I can do about that, because you have formed a different initial impression about it for whatever reason (and I'll never really know what your reasons are for the impression you have formed). My thoughts are as opaque to you as yours are to mine. That's the hard thing about human life. We cannot ever know truly what anyone else is thinking...or why...no matter how hard they try to explain it to us.

I have no idea why you find it implausible that someone might have fired shots from in front of Kennedy, why you don't find it quite obvious that someone did, and there's nothing I can do about it. I shrug, I feel a sense of resignation and despair, and I walk away....

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:55 PM

"I believe that Giuliani, like GWBush, ...blah, blah..etc."

Yeah...we are aware that you 'believe' a lot of off-the-wall stuff.
People can 'believe' that the Earth is flat and only 5000 years old....

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:54 PM

Gza, I gave no opinion of my own on either Kennedy or 9/11. The only opinion I'm offering here is that both MOVIE DIRECTORS made up whatever story they thought would get asses in theatre seats. Neither is an historian. They are movie directors. Why should I trust Michael Moore any more than I would his republican counterpart? Democrats don't lie? HUH! yeah right. None of them can be trusted.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:48 PM

This is a big story that will, for starters, kill Giuliani's presidential aspirations. Giuliani's dad was a mob boss who served time, and the boy grew up to run the organization from inside the justice system. Now he wants to run the country. Giuliani's complicity in 9/11 will be revealed now because of Michael Moore's recent statements. That, at a minimum, is what will come of this.

I believe that Giuliani, like GWBush, wasn't informed beforehand of what was going to happen on 9/11. That's why they both mis-spoke about 9/11 later and why both had that deer-in-the-headlights look on the day. But both were involved in the crime of the coverup, so that makes them complicit in a capital crime. If there is any justice in the world, we'll see them tried and executed, along with the others involved in the coverup and in the execution of the crime itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:45 PM

"It is so fucking obvious that other shots were fired at Kennedy
...
All you have to do is read into it some"

Those two statements define exactly what the problems are with these issues.

It is NOT fucking obvious, otherwise there would be universal agreement. THAT is what causes people to consider other options.

The fact that you can "read into it" opens up elements of doubt AND interjects the author and readers preconceived notions.   It is hard to find anyone with a truly open mind. The "consipiricists" seem to latch onto whatever is supporting their wish to have an alternate reason, and that clouds their ability to really consider all views.   The "anti-conspiracists" work exactly the opposite. They consider the source and look for ways to knock it down.

JEEZUS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:41 PM

an even better eyewitness page

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:31 PM

"No biggie. Just show the tapes."

For the last time: There are no "TAPES" or "VIDEOS"...there are still frames from ONE security camera, which shows a blank, then a fireball. The confounded plane, just to spite us, passed that lone security camera BETWEEN frames. (Probably a secondary plot!)

But they have **eyewitnesses** ...average people...who SAW the plane. Some thought they were gonna be hit by it.

I found that page in 3 seconds....I doubt if you even looked for it, it wouldn't do to find anything that weakens your conspiracy theory, would it?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,Gza
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:21 PM

Yeah, Becca...both of which probably involved coverups at a very high level...

The conventional mind simply doesn't want to know. It would always rather just believe whatever lies Big Brother tells it by way of the mainstream media, and go have another cheeseburger at the mall or rent another video and plunk down in front of the tube.

"Please don't bother me. I want to remain comfortably aneasthetized in my little tiny world of consumption here. It's far less painful than asking questions which might result in disturbing answers being found. And anyway, I'm helpless to do anything about it. Please just don't bother me. Please just stop talking about that and go away. You can't possibly be right. If you were, I'd have no sense of security left, and that is a thought I simply cannot bear."

p.s. - It is so fucking obvious that other shots were fired at Kennedy...from in front of the motorcade...rather than just shots from the book depository to the rear...and that one of those shots from in front blew out the back of Kennedy's head as it exited...there were so many eyewitnesses who said so....JEEZUS!!!

All you have to do is read into it some. But no, you'd rather just believe the Warren Commission's laundered version of what happened. Well, la-de-da...your choice appears to be that igorance is bliss. I guess you must be really quite happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Becca72
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:03 PM

Michael Moore knows as much about 9/11 as Oliver Stone does about the Kennedy assassination.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:22 AM

I don't think Michael Moore is a jerk, and I think he is asking some very important questions. His documentaries have exposed some serious issues and helped this country question the ravings of the madman in the White House.

The thing is, you can't jump to conclusions or make assumptions that require accepting a theory as the truth. Some people seem to feed on celebrity and grasp every innuendo as the gospel truth to justify their perspective.   Our one-trick pony Guest seems to have a history of such behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:08 AM

IMHO, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:08 AM

Michael Moore is a jerk who, having exhausted the possibilities of his current audience, is looking for a new one.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 09:30 AM

I want to see tapes of Santa Claus. There are so many security cameras out there, surely someone has captured his image going down a chimne or hitching up the reindeer. Why won't they let us see these tapes?

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Grab
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:27 AM

Don't know why I bother. OK, that's my last 9/11 post.

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 05:26 AM

It's the sattelites; and now that UK is going fully digital, there will be no protection. (Mental note: Must buy tinfoil).

Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:09 AM

Explosions do not necessarily = bombs.