how to keep hold of your pick???

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:53 AM

You know, it's the start of the third set that gets me and it's nothing to do with the pick. The joint in my right thumb just hurts like heck.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: iancarterb
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 11:48 PM

Everything works eventually if you practice long enough, as has been suggested in many posts. Bee and Bob R have an idea - the long thumbnail - that worked really well for the brilliant old time mandolin player Kenny Hall. I find that something about either the size of the pick - the Golden Gate or Dawg style stiff-enough-to-stop-a-bullet kind - or the magic of looking for a solution for fifty-odd years and finally learning to relax made the search complete. However, it might be that my spit has gotten stickier in my sixties. Along the way I found that snitching a bit of the fiddle players resin helped, and wearing a Canadian elastoplast bandaid on thumb or forefinger til RIGHT before playing may have helped the relaxation learning process.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 11:23 PM

Uh, never mind about the staples, Further research reveals that staples are a bad, bad idea. Hurts like a summabitch, too.
- Phil

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Uncle Phil
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 11:14 PM

Hmm, staples…

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Jun 07 - 12:02 AM

I avoid losing my contact lenses by drilling a small hole in each one and attaching them with a length of nylon fishing line. This can then be worn around the neck. Contact lenses were invented by the English Astronomer Fredrick William Herschell in 1827.

Subject: how to keep hold of your pick??? / Herco picks
From: Genie
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 11:10 AM

Michael "Hawkeye" Hermanson, a blues guitarist, introduced me to Herco thumb/flatpicks a few years ago.   They'd probably work for mando as well.

The Herco picks are basically a thumb pick that has a wide triangular pick part so that you can grip it between your thumb and forefinger to use as a flat pick or let go with the forefinger and use it as a thumbpick, as needed.
Of course it also means that if you choose to use it exclusively as a flat pick, it doesn't fly off or drop to the floor if your finger slips.

Genie

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Mooh
Date: 25 Jun 07 - 08:22 AM

SharonA...That thicker grip surface/thin playing surface is an old trick which didn't used to work so well because of delamination, but now with new super glues it work better. It's a cool trick as it stiffens the pick slightly away from the point, and for some makes it easier to hold. I'd forgotten about this one.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: SharonA
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 11:27 PM

One of my side men drills holes in the center of his picks in order to improve his grip on them. He's also been known to glue two or three picks together, sand down the thickness of one tip of the resulting hybrid and buff all the edges smooth, for a thicker gripping surface and a thinner playing surface.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 05:09 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 24 Jun 07 - 03:01 PM

I would suggest taking a Viagra first. That makes small ones much easier to keep hold of. And a good rubber is a help too. It provides friction/traction and keeps you from losing it down the center hole.

Art

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 04:06 PM

Iguess its not the size of your pik,pick,but what you can do with it.
pik miles.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: open mike
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 01:46 PM

i prefer picks with built-in "traction" surface
esp. Jim Dunlop's -- i call them "mud and snows"

or those with sort of waffle or cross-hatch surface.
some have small dots molded in them.

i wonder if a small cloth bandaid "spot" might offer temporary
added surface texture. or a small strip of medical adhesive tape.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 12:28 PM

Post this, Hardly! (unable to make smily-face emoticon)

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 09:31 AM

Oh....... your pick - it comes with practice!!

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Mooh
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 09:00 AM

Guest Bob...That "12 string effect pick" is/was marketed by Dunlop as the SR Strummer and sometimes referred to as the StrumRose. It didn't really sound like a 12 string when used on a six string (no octave strings), more like a 6 string through a heavy chorus effect. I have one, bought it on spec, dislike it, but keep it as a conversation piece.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 23 Jun 07 - 02:04 AM

The real trick is to practice like mad! Like lots of guitarists, I went through the stages of dropping plecs and feeling them turning in my hand but through practice I've developed a "feel". Even without knowing it, I now make constant minor adjustments to my grip on the plec to keep it in the exact position I want.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: john f weldon
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 08:21 PM

the real trick is to have lots of picks, taped everywhere; on your instrument, on the mike, on various body parts... ... when one flies away, grab another...

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Bru
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 08:05 PM

This is dead Heath Robinson, but it works.

Dap off to the local haberdashery or Woolies, or whatever, and find yourself some velcro.

Cut off enough of one side of the velcro to go around your index finger one and a half times. Cut off a couple of small pieces of the "hook" side and glue or stitch one piece onto the velcro so it fastens fairly tightly around your finger. Use impact glue to glue the other small piece to the plectrum or pick. Get the plec in the right position - and Robert's your father's brother.

This was one of the first uses I found for velcro when I discovered it donkeys years ago. It's not foolproof, but it's a godsend for beginners until they get a feel for the plec.

Bru

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: John Hardly
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 07:55 PM

I just found a new way to begin to manage to keep your grip on your pick...

Sleep in a room that has a bedspread with coordinating curtains. If the curtains don't have any coordinating affect on you, then I suppose you'll have to go back to practicing.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,highlandman
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:23 PM

Gurney, I never have to look for my pick when I drop it. It's ALWAYS inside the guitar.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 11:34 AM

Gurney and the Gang: So many good ideas through all of this. Personally, over my 41-plus years of "learning to play the guitar" (I'll get it right someday, ha ha) I've amassed a "wealth of picks" so to speak. Gifts from friends, all shapes and sizes, all types of materials and after amassing a small fortune of the little beasts, which I keep in an Indian wooden container, quite nice, I've sorta settled down to my ole' white Fender Mediums and couple of Boutique types I use for recording. For the benefit of my friend back up the thread, yes, "Gorilla Snot' is a real product. I was Director of Marketing for C.M.S. Music, a distributor of musical products to all the retail stores in the Montreal area. So I've seen just about every kind of pick and product there is.
For your edification, education, and amusement I will tell you about the "12-string pick".
Somebody came up with the idea of gluing together 4-picks with small separation between, the idea was you take this thing, which was about the thickness of an Oreo cookie and use it on a 6-string guitar to get a 12-string sound, great for stummers, hopeless for the pickers.
While on the subject of wacko ideas, we had a product that actually tuned the guitar for you. It looked like a small 1/4" drill that was battery powered. Whatcha do is take this thing and put in on your tuning keys, and it would TURN THE KEYS and tune the guitar for you. You would know it was in tune when the series of lights on the side flashed red to green, an amazing device. I believe it was called the "STRINGMASTER". But all this was a number of years back now, 1990-93. So to close off, for Gurney and all the fine people reading this "mini-book", go deep and find the kid inside you and just have FUN with it.
Buy, make, obtain a bunch of picks and go crazy...Who knows? Maybe somebody out there will come up with "THE PICK" and become rich in the process. Time for me to stop...Bye guys...bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:59 AM

Early on in my guitar playing career, such as it was, I used a thumbpick and either finger picked or played "Mother Maybelle" style, picking bass notes with the thumbpick and strumming with the index finger.

I switched to a flatpick for three reasons:

1) I really liked some of the flatpick guitar I heard, especially, early on, John Herald's stuff on the early Ian and Sylvia records. And when I got Doc Watson's first Vanguard album, that settled it.

2) I could make more noise.

3) If I was playing in a bar and drinking beer, it eliminated the risk of going to the toilet and forgetting to take the thumbpick off. Memories of the pain still linger.

Peter.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: John Hardly
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:49 AM

I didn't read the entire thread either. Can someone tell me if I've already posted to it?

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,van lingle
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 10:40 AM

I didn't read the entire thread so someone may have already mentioned these but I picked up some Cool picks at Music Villa in Bozeman MT a few weeks ago. They look like a standard white flat pick but they have a blue oval in the gripping area on both sides that is slight abrasive and provides a very solid grip. As I said it's only been a few weeks and I'm not sure how long they'll remain grippy (?)but I know you can get them at Elderly.com.
That said I still like Dunlop Ultex picks better which seem to grab the string in a more satisfactory way and are made of a substance that gives almost as good a grip as the Cool pick. Good luck, vl

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Vixen
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 08:27 AM

AHA--

John Hardly writes "Learning to play without anchoring my right hand".

*THAT* was the other thing that I had to practice, practice, practice to change, but which (along with the heavier, thicker, sort of tackier pick) made all the difference in the world.

I now have guitarists with much more experience, talent, style, and musicianship tell me I should anchor my right hand with the pinky on the pickguard. No way will I go back, but I do wonder if I've limited my ability to play by training my right hand to "float" out there over the strings. Besides making it easier to hold onto the pick, it also means I can change the sound by strumming further up the neck, or closer to the bridge; I can also change the sound by changing the way I angle my wrist--it gets more "soft" or "brittle" depending on how I cock my wrist. I don't anything about whether this is good or bad technique--I've never had consistent formal instruction, just the passing directions of better guitarists in jams and workshops and such.

Like a lot of stuff in music (and life too, ain't that surprisin'!) what works for some won't work for others. But getting my pinky off the pickguard was a quantum leap improvement for me.

just my $0.02 fwiw. And I agree with Bob R's reiteration--you gotta practice practice practice and then practice some more. Great tools will never compensate for a lousy craftsman and fancy picks will never make a great guitarist.

V

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: John Hardly
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:51 AM

I don't favor doctored picks as crutches. Doctoring picks for a particular sound is different (polishing edges, sharpening or rounding edges, for instance). But becoming dependent on picks with anything on them or otherwise cut, drilled, or sanded only means that you have to have that particular pick every time you want to play.

Two things have made all the difference for me...

1) Learning to play without anchoring my right hand. When I learned to do this, I found that I didn't have the same problems with pick rotation as when I used to anchor my pinky on the pickguard.

2) Learning to keep the pick angle parallel (or nearly so) to the strings. This minimizes pick rotation as well as creates more volume from less effort -- less effort to create volume translates to greater ease in holding the pick.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 06:44 AM

there is a video on you tube of oscillation picking,several comments suggest this is circle picking,any opinions on this.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 05:05 AM

I wasn't joking earlier, there genuinely is a product called Gorilla Snot, so good it is virtually impossible to lose your grip. Google it, you'll get a lot of hits.

eric

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 01:31 AM

I'm sorry, but I didn't take the time to read all of these posts. However, I do have a good solution that works.

I don't play this style, I been using finger picks all these years and haven't explored flat picks too much. On occasion, even my finger picks work themselves loose. Try a rosin bag, like the stuff that rock climbers, bowlers, baseball, golf, and tennis players use.

Before you start to play dip your fingers, the ones that you'll be holding your picks with, in the rosin powder. The rosin will react with your body heat and make your finger tips tacky and better able to hang on to your pick. While you're at it, you can also dust your pick with the stuff. I think they even make it in different grades of stickiness. Like the different grades of cake rosin that violin or upright bass players use.

The company that makes the stuff I have is called Forrest Enterprises Inc. They're located in Piqua, Ohio 45356. They also make another product called Mor Grip.

There is also a liquid that's used in theater productions to attach false facial hair etc. It's called spirit gum. It's a mild contact cement. It's sticky enough to hold but not as strong or as toxic as the industrial strength version of the stuff that you might find in your average hardware store. This stuff dries quickly and leaves your fingers tacky enough to help your picks to stay where they're supposed to stay.

Try either of these and you should have no trouble, but if you find that one or the other isn't enough try using both together. I have had to this and found this answer to be the perfect solution to slippery picks.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Songster Bob
Date: 22 Jun 07 - 12:18 AM

Well, part of learning to use a plectrum is to find one that fits what you're playing. Electric guitarists tend toward thin picks, and mandolin players toward stiff ones (I do, anyway) because you're dealing with double-coursed strings with a reasonable stiffness to them.

Acoustic guitarists tend toward the medium pick, but then again, some likes 'em thick and some thin. If you're strumming a lot, thinner picks slide over the multiple strings better than the stiff ones. Single-note playing requires stiffer picks, I think.

I use Fender mediums or the equivalent for guitar, and tortoise-shell for mandolin. For electric guitar, I stick to the mediums, though thins sometimes seem "right." For tenor banjo, I use the mediums, again.

By the way, since tortoise picks are illegal to sell, so people try various substitutes. I recently tried, and like, buffalo horn picks that I got on eBay -- they were mailed from Ho Chi Minh City! Nice picks, though.

Now, how to hold the pick. This is the bigger problem, to my mind. I usually tell students (when I have 'em) to make a "trigger finger" with the index finger, folding the finger like one would with a trigger. Place the pick on top of it. Place the thumb on top of the string, so that the part of the pick you want to use (the point or the round part, whatever) and strum/pick with your palm parallel to the strings. I have seen people hold the pick out at the end of the finger and thumb, sort of like pinching it, and I think that posture leads to more pick movement than you want (and sort of wimpy tone, too).

I have no preference or good advice on the size and shape of the pick, since that's a matter of taste. Try a lot of them, and see what works for you. Several years ago, I even saw someone making and selling stone picks. I never figured out how to make those work, I can tell you.

Good luck.

Bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:17 PM

Bob, I have hands that are showing the result of 50 years of labour, and I don't play plectrum guitar often, or any kind of guitar much at all, nowadays. Any help that I can get to hold onto a pick is welcome. Or to see it if I drop it. Fortunately, they now make florescent masking tape.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:52 PM

Take a small strip of masking tape. Roll it on a table so that the sticky side of the tape is on the inside and the outside of the tape. Wrap it around the top part of the pick. Cut the strip of masking tape sparingly so that when you wrap it around the top of the pick it is not too bulky. It should act as double-sided adhesive tape if you wrap it right.

I play all the time professionally and don't lose my pick.

There is a problem though if you grow your index fingernail long. When I play the five-string banjo, I use a plastic pick on my index finger and use nails on the rest of my fingers.

My index finger nail is cut short to allow for pick action. I play tenor banjo which requires a vigorous tremolo with the pick as well as on guitar.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 02:31 PM

I generally use a relatively flexible pick (Dunlop .60mm, though I'd prefer .56 if I could find 'em), hold the pick with the thumb and the first and second fingers, so that I can change the tension as I want to by bending it slightly to make it firmer.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Grab
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 01:03 PM

Cap'n B, he reckons this "George Benson" method. I guess we've all felt ourselves tense up as we increase the picking speed. He reckons that the "George Benson" method uses a position which doesn't naturally cause your arm to tense.

Just done a quick google on "George Benson pick technique" and found a fair few hits on previous discussions on other forums. One of those had a link to this picture of the hand position. So unlike your regular picking position, where you curl your index finger over and then place the thumb against it, this is basically touching thumb and finger together with both straight.

Graham.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 12:17 PM

Gurney, Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your beers, uh, make that EARS: No Gurney, I didn't misunderstand anything, I've been playing guitar for over 41 years and I know everybody is talking about changing the condition of the PICK, but my attempt at humour and satire was only to point out that these alterations may not be necessary if you have a good teacher who can get you past pick slipping issues. EVERYBODY has THEIR way of solving a problem, and playing the guitar. For me, tortex just doesn't cut it. Too dull. For somebody else, it works just fine.
All the fine folks reading this come from all over the world. Some are beginners, some are pros. When you meet your first great electric guitar player, you might be surprised, as I was, at how SOFT his attack is(with the amp turned off). Other people, a tribe I will respectfully refer to as the wacka-ja-wackas, think that playing the guitar means beating on it. Some to the point of actually wearing out the wood until there is a hole in the guitar! So, that pick is gonna slip. The guitar is an endless universe. which makes it magical. Almost anybody can pick it up, and with the guidance of a good teacher, be able to get those first chords going, then being able to change from chord to chord,,,we've all been through it. But then, you realize how deep the guitar really is. I see/hear somebody like Jennifer Batten and I say, My God! I knew a Tai Chi Master who called himself Lee Siu Pak. For 37 years, I always referred to him as Master/Mr. Lee or Lee Siu Pak. And after he passed away, I found out through the internet that Lee Sui Pak means "Lee of little knowledge" His face came to mind. He was always laughing and called me Bop, because he couldn't pronounce "Bob". He had given himself the name out of respect, humility, and realization that although he was a Master who had studied with the original members of the Yang Family, creators of the "Yang Style" Tai Chi, he would never be able to know all that is Tai Chi. He once drew a circle on a piece of paper, and then pointed at me and said, "this you cannot do." So right away the ego gets in the way and I'm thinking, "hey, I can draw a circle on a sheet of paper too..." But the years went by and as I progressed, I realized what he was trying to show me was that he drew the circle with internal power, his Chi. And the "this you cannot do" meant that I would never be able to draw HIS circle. I would have to draw my own. The guitar is like that. No matter how advanced you are, their is always somebody who can say, "this you cannot do..."
So. if drilling holes, sandpapering, taping, gluing, rubberizing, tortexing works for YOU. Keep doing it...You can bring a horse to water, but you can't make him drink...
bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:43 AM

Weel personally ive ayeweys found a good firm grip roon the shaft wis best wie either a pick or a shovel :p

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 10:29 AM

Thanks, Mooh, for the helpful comments based on experience.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 09:41 AM

Yes, I saw the English version of the Danish at first glance...

Now it seems we need to work out how to hold on to our "R"s as well.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Mooh
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 09:21 AM

Inasmuch as a few dozen students of guitar pass through my door every week, I can honestly say that a simple roughing up of the pick surface with a light sanding will do the trick for most folks. Not so much as to remove material, just enough to provide some grip.

Second to that solution are a few small holes drilled through in the area of the grip. Small holes because some pick materials will crack easily. Two or three will usually do.

Though I personally find picks with built in grips too sticky, like the Lava and Brain brands, many folks prefer them.

It's also recommended that clean hands grip better on clean picks. Having witnessed other folks picks it's no wonder they can't hold on to them when they're filthy, greasy things.

My own choice is the Dunlop Ultex pick (.73mm for guitar in the "Fender 351" shape, and 1.00mm rounded three corner for mandolin and bouzouki) because it has a slightly unsmooth surface when new, sands and reshapes well, lasts a long time, drills well, and best of all it sounds good to my ears.

Beyond that, it's largely a technique issue. Grip lightly enough to be flexible, hard enough to keep control, but it should be a light squeeze with the fingers rather than a grip with the whole hand and arm. The flexibility of the pick attack comes from all the moving parts from the shoulder to the point of the pick. Many folks use too much pick on the string before sounding the actual note, letting too much of the pick ride or scrape off the string ahead of the note articulation. Only the point of the pick is actually required to sound the note. Keeping that point smooth will also help in note articulation, a rough point will catch the string (especially light plain steel strings) and add to pick control problems. Observe the angle of the pick to the string too, a slight angle will let the pick slide off the string faster and smoother with less resistance.

All for what it's worth.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 08:57 AM

I found it difficult to understand Tucks dissertation wothout diagrams.What is the best grip for mandolin and tenor banjo,to play fast tremolo style,and quick semiquavers for irish music.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Grab
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 07:44 AM

Bert, that's the problem. I like my 1.14mm Tortex picks. Most plastic bottles are either significantly thinner than this, or if they're that thick then they're some kind of flexible plastic (like Tupperware).

Tunesmith, that's a fantastic link! I've got to try that George Benson technique.

Bob's right in that a certain amount is down to practise. But a lack of correct technique *will* limit you, and if you're not practising with good technique then your practise is a blind alley and is almost entirely wasted. Like someone trying to be 100m champion but is hopping instead of running, the best advice is often not to train harder but to check the technique. ;-)

Graham.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 04:51 AM

I would appreciate opinions on holding the pick,do people think holding it with a bent thumb,enables the player to get more wrist movement,this is suggested with the bow of the fiddle,and does enable the fiddler to get more wrist movement.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Gurney
Date: 21 Jun 07 - 03:50 AM

I just read your first diatribe, Bob, and you completely misunderstood me. Obviously I wasn't clear enough for you. I'll try to make it simpler, just for you.
I was talking of changing the condition OF THE PICK, not gluing it to your fingers.

Rubber solution dries to a hard, rubbery surface, much earier to hold.

Masking tape is one-sided, made of paper, can be built up to greater thickness. It gets slightly sticky with handling. Threads underneath it would make it ridged.

For heavens sake, you surely didn't think that ANYONE would advocate sticking things to their fingers with superglue? How would you pick up your drink?

Better now?

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 09:07 PM

Bee: Don't stop there. A lot of people use that technique with amazing success. Check out Jeff Beck. But, remember, it's just one of many possibilities. Joni Mitchell doesn't use what many would consider "normal" chord patterns, and yet creates her own special brand of music.
If you've been at it for a year, don't give up. Keep the technique you have now as part of your arsenal, and experiment, experiment, experiment...I was a Folk player for about 6 years and had hit the wall as far as fingerpicking with a thumbpick and steel fingerpicks would go, then I began taking Jazz guitar lessons with Frank Quinn using the Berklee Method(Boston). I felt like an idiot because it required sight reading and the use of a pick, which felt very awkward to me at the time. but hour by hour, week by week, it became natural. Personally, I've used what your doing when I record certain types of songs in the studio, like a drummer would use brushes to get a softer sound...Don't limit yourself, and keep trying. What was difficult/strange will become natural with time. give yourself a chance...Good Luck. bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Bee
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 08:50 PM

Guest Bob R, I've been learning for a year. I cannot make a pick do anything except annoy the cat. I figgered it out. The answer is, don't use a pick a-tall, buddy. The corner of my thumb is now tough enough to sound loud enough on the strings for anyone listening to a beginner play. ;-D

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 08:34 PM

Anybody notice that I misspelled "guitar" in that last post? That was your test. Just checking to see if you're paying attention...

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 08:26 PM

Oh Lord, why me? Glue? Masking Tape? Rubber Cement? Construction Materials? Double-Sided Tape?!!! Did you ever consider this may be God's way of telling you you need to work on your technique? Surprised nobody tried staples!!!Holdit, I've GOT it!!!!!!!~Plastic Surgery!
You lay down $4000 and have a skilled surgeon IMPLANT the pick into your thumb! That way when you go wacka-ja-wacka on the guitar, banging on it like Charlie Watts, your THUMB might come off, but not the pick. If Chico Marx were here, he might say to you, "maybe you
wacka-ja-wacka too HARD, anna da pick slippa outta yo hand!" Now, O.K. I agree the plastic surgery might pose a bit of a problem when you go to the bathroom, and the missus will
probably ask you some questions, but what is THAT, no doubt a worthy sacrifice to your ART!? Perhaps, may God forgive me, LESS work on your beer, MORE work on being a better player. Then, there is the time tested and true technique of welding your tuning keys so that pesky guitar doesn't keep going out of tune...Or, if you play in bars, you might not even need strings. Just keep that dunta-dunta-dunta rhythm going and you're sure to be a crowd pleaser! O.K. I was going to let this be a surprise, but while all this gluing and taping and rubberizing was going on, I WAS CREATING! Yep, the ole' Bob got on the problem and developed/invented THE NO-SLIP PICK! Ride with me on this. A simple, small
chain is attached to your pick and your thumb, which will have to be pierced, like when your wife has her ears pierced, the pick slips, and voila, you SNAP it back, just like some
freaky animal from the brazilian jungle gets his gnat for breakfast!!! YOU DA MAN!
END OF PROBLEM!!! Now, don't you all feel better, knowing you have a friend who CARES?!
Now: Uncle Bob's "Tempestuous Thumb Testing Technique" that I've used on many students, even the one who used to hold the guiar with the strings placed against his stomach, man, was HE a special case...Anyways, watcha gonna do is HOLD YO PICK. Ask a friend to try to pull it out of your hand. He/She should have a bit of difficulty. But the pressure should not
be so tight that the pick cannot still move up and down between your thumb and forefinger, like a diving board. That's it. The rest is how hard you attack the strings. You can still be as loud as need be. The pick should not slip. Otherwise, you are just trying WAY too hard...Or, you are one GREASY son-of-a sailor! Take heart. It is with the utmost respect for all-o-yas that I inject a bit of humour into all of this. We are all on the same road, just at different places. Keep smilin'...Be kind to each other, and the next time that pick slips out of your hand, kick it into the audience like that Rockstar, Yngwie Malmsteen, (saw him do it about 40 times at the Bell Center, almost as much fun as the music.) Oh, the ideas just keep-a-comin, folks...Whatcha do is VELCRO 1000 picks to whatever you're
wearing. You lose one, who cares? Show your audience you luv 'em. PICKS FOR EVERYBODY!!!!! Peace and Love, yeah, I know. But it still works over here...bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 07:20 PM

I'll have to try that.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 06:10 PM

I dealt with that on the cumbus page I referenced - use builder's packaging tape. It's more elastic than polyethylene, and comes in several different strengths and thicknesses. You find it lying around any construction site.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:47 PM

most plastic bottles are pretty thin...

Try bleach or motor oil bottles or tupperware containers.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 05:41 PM

cheers folks!!! plenty to be going on there. . . but keep the ideas coming!!!

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Gurney
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 04:27 PM

1/ Paint the pick with rubber solution glue. The sort that idiots sniff.

2/ Wrap the pick in paper masking tape. The more you use it, the 'stickier' it gets. you can also finagle ridges under the tape.

3/ Superglue a strip of plastic at near right-angles to the tip, so that it fits into the palm of your hand.

I've had the same problem. Could you tell?

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: MissouriMud
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 03:32 PM

A small strip of double sided tape provides enough tackiness to keep things in place.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:46 PM

Tunesmith: Essay on pick holding by Tuck Andress was great and just about covers it. Yes,
Brent uses a thumbpick(another variety of plectrum) and fingers,(talk about fingers, let us not forget Lenny Breau, Danny Gatton, and Jennifer Batten, see "Flight of the Bumblebee", the video, my Top Friends on myspace. You might say "That's impossifus!" No friends, it's real. She can do that...) but for the benefit of our beginner mandolin player who started all of this, it serves merely as an introduction to the
infinite variety of combinations(for my Folk shows I use, in part, a clear Dobro thumbpick and National steel fingerpicks). Tuck mentions George Benson, who I had the opportunity (and honor) to briefly play with. It seems to me to be about creativity and using whatever works to get YOUR sound. The water is deep. If I elaborate any more and tell our mandolin playing friend that while holding the pick and moving it clockwise and counterclockwise, it is also possible to train yourself to use the other 3 fingers to do some pretty interesting things, it might confuse him/her. Brent is so amazing. I have his video and have him as a friend on myspace. Inspiring. George Benson was like Bruce Lee, so fast when he was 19, see George Benson: Cookbook(LP) When the decision was made to use his vocal abilities, a lot of what he could have played during the breaks was toned down. (They had to slow down Bruce Lee for
the films, the hands were so fast nobody could see them move). HAPPY PICKIN! bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:20 PM

Ah I didn't know that Joe, I thought it was for all posts.

JGM
>>As for the original thread title, I'm taking lessons from a handicrafts teacher on that one!
<<

Sounds like you are in for a good night :-)

Unfortunately, although I know it is a serious thread, I can't stop hooting with laughter at each post. That's guest's fault for spelling pick wrong. :-)

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 02:13 PM

I switch over to Thumb & Finger pick when I'm not strumming but have never thought the Thumb Pick would be suitable for that. Is there a particular brand worth trying?

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Grab
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:31 PM

My best suggestion is to get a bigger pick. I had the same problems, until I found that Jim Dunlop do some large triangular picks ("Tortex Triangle"). The larger surface area means that you need less pressure to keep a grip on it. My weapon of choice for mandolin and guitar is the 1.14mm (purple), although I've got a couple of each of the others in case I want less attack for some reason.

The Dava Control is another possible solution. It's got a thin point in the middle so that the tip can "hinge" away when you pick, whilst the top still stays firmly in your grip. I didn't get on with them, but after I found the triangle picks I gave all my others to a friend, and he's now a total convert to the Dava Controls.

Or try a thumb-pick.

I like the idea of that oud pick - have to experiment with that. The problem is finding a suitable thickness of plastic, I guess - most plastic bottles are pretty thin.

Graham.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:26 PM

Don't use picks very often, but I've found the matt finish on Shark's Fin picks is very good to hold.
As for the original thread title, I'm taking lessons from a handicrafts teacher on that one!
G

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: kendall
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:20 PM

Villan, Guest posting is ok in the music section. They are banned from the BS section.

What Midchuck suggests works for me. However, not too many holes, they will weaken the material and they will split.

I have found that the older I get the dryer my skin gets, so the ends of my fingers have a hard time holding a smooth pick.
Fortunatly, Jeri gave me two of Rick Fielding's picks that have a certain design on them in bas relief. They help me grip them. I also guard them from borrowers.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:20 PM

A previous poster mention Brent Mason. Brent doesn't use a plectrum. He uses a thumb-pick and fingers. As does another amazing player Scotty Anderson.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:17 PM

This essay on the subject by Tuck Andress is definitely worth reading!!
essay on plectrum holding

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 01:03 PM

ROTFLMAO Bente :-)

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: bfdk
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:51 PM

Same in Danish, Les, and I'm still working on cleaning the screen..
:o))
Bente

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:51 PM

A bit of clarification (hopefully)...When I'm playing, the pick is actually MOVING. That is to say, the song might open with a simple rhythm pattern we all would use with up and down strokes. Then, as the song progresses, the thumb pushes the pick against the forefinger, causing it to rotate so it is then being played on the side as the lead break in the song comes up. Then, angling the pick (let's say 45 degrees, could vary, depending on the tone I want),
the attack changes, so the string is hit from the side to create a harmonic. That technique, coupled with subtle changes from the hand which is chording/single line playing, will give you those classic
blues leads. Depending on your imagination, the technique works quite well in Folk too.
Throw out the rule book for a bit and experiment. You might come up with an "A-HA" moment,
and add a new technique to your arsenal...all the best.

http://www.myspace.com/bobryszkiewicz

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:45 PM

I've tried just about every type of pick with some sort of grip improvement feature that's ever come down the pike. They always feel awkward to me. A regular pick feels like a natural extension of my thumb and finger, but gimick picks make me aware that I'm holding onto something. Maybe if flying pick syndrome was a major problem I'd stick with one of them long enough for it to feel more natural, but I rarely drop picks as it is.

The only concession to grip that I make nowadays is to use nylon or Delrin picks with a powdery finish. I won't use anything with a slick, shiny surface. The powdery coating gives just enough extra grip without any awkward feeling.   

Oh, by the way, I noticed that when I quit drinking my ability to hold onto a pick increased tremendously. Imagine that!

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: GUEST,Sapper on the OHLE Test Train
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:42 PM

Forgetting the Dutch confision, Am I the only one who saw an extra "R" in the title?

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: mandotim
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:34 PM

Wegen picks come in all sorts of shapes and thicknesses. The big advantage is that they are properly bevelled. This allows the player to drive 'through' the pair of strings, rather than brushing them. I think that this is essential for good tone on a mandolin, irrespective of the style of music. (Opinion, of course...others will differ). You can use any of the points, and it is easy to vary the tone by changing the angle of attack as the pick strikes the strings.
Tim

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:24 PM

Gerry o connor[banjo]recommends a nylon 60mm,these seem to be alright for the mandolin.I generally fingerpick the guitar, but when I do flatpick the guitar,Iwould use something heavier than 60mm.
    do the michel wenger picks[ioom] work as well for traditional irish /scottish as they do for bluegrass,Iwondered if they might be a tad heavy.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pick???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:19 PM

Here's a vid of an Ud player - Hamza el Din.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:16 PM

I'm with Midchuck on this one. Get yourself a single hole punch. Looks like a cheap pair of pliers. I used to do that and it worked well. For some reason, it never crossed my mind to use a drill.

PLECTRUM

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 12:00 PM

Listed to a few Ud recordings too. You will hear some players who are also blindingly fast and who don't have to hold their fingers in an unnaturally clenched position.

They choose a plastic bottle of a suitable stiffness and cut a pick the size and shape that suits them.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:55 AM

Hi Kids!: LISTEN TO PEACE...he's right! As you become a more advanced player, you will
be able to use the various sides of the pick for effects. And should you take up, dare I
use the word? ELECTRIC GUITAR!(I wonder if Bob Dylan is reading this, or Hendrix from the outskirts of infinity?) You will see this technique can produce incredible effects in the hands
of a highly skilled player(see Jerry Donahue, Brent Mason; killer Nashville session guys) If
you care about tone, you might want to experiment with the infinite variety of shapes, sizes and materials available. My personal faves include: Fender Medium(the white ones) which
work very well in blues and flatpicking, and cross over nicely to electric guitar. Just the right(for me) snapback. If you use a pick that's too thin, the snapback isn't good, horrible if you
are doing a Doc Watson type flatpicking. If you are a wacka-wacka beginner who knows 3 chords, they'll be fine. My other current fave is a very thick imitation tortoise-shell that I got from Boutique Tone in Montreal. Great for recording near sensitive microphones. A lot of
Jazz guys like those very small(about the size of a dime) picks, fast, great tone. Since GUEST is a mandolin person, ya gotta check out Bill Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, etc. These guys are
lightening fast, and most likely would or have used picks that are relatively stiff and quick.
Anyhound, keep at it til you tame that puppy. Pretty soon, you'll be "in the zone" and the pick will feel natural. Good Luck...bob

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:39 AM

But don't worry about the rubber coated piks!

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:37 AM

Jack Campin said it.

Ud players traditionally used an eagle quill, or so they will tell you. But now they use a strip cut from a plastic bottle. About four inches long and half an inch wide. (Oh dear that sounds as though we're talking about that 'pik' again).

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:22 AM

Funny - how did guest get away with being guest without a warning from J O ?

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:19 AM

Are you sure you are not Dutch guest? :-)

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:12 AM

cheers folks!!!! I'll have to keep my eyes open for the above mentioned rubber coated Picks!!!!
P.S SOrry about the spelling!!!!

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:06 AM

LOL

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Vixen
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 11:00 AM

I played guitar for 20 years, losing my picks frequently. Then I discovered picks made from cow horn. They seem to get slightly tacky as I play, and they worked great. Then a good friend of ours recommended the following source for picks. We use the M-100s, for Mando and Guitar, and we both love them.

Be aware, however, this is a Dutch manufacturer, so DO watch your spelling!


Michel Wegen Picks

V

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:58 AM

For mandolin you could try not using the tip, but one of the 'shoulders'. You get less 'click' on the strings, so a mellower and (in my view) a better tone, especially for accompanying a song. It also gives you more surface area to grip with. Give it a try.

People also sometimes score the pick with a file or sandpaper to make it less slippery.

If it's moving as you play you should probably examine your 'angle of attack, and how the pick is hitting the strings - you may need to alter your hand (picking) position a bit.

But in the main, Peace is right - practice and persistance'll sort you out.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Midchuck
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:56 AM

Drilling 2 or 3 teeny little holes through the wide part of the pick, where you grip it, helps a lot for me.

I buy the same picks Barbara suggests, but you got to buy a lot of them, 'cause the rubbery stuff wears off fairly quickly in use.

Peter.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:54 AM

I think somebody should correct the spelling of "Pik" into "Pick"

In Dutch pik means a male private part, which then makes the first post highly amusing to people who understand Dutch.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:35 AM

Why do guitarists and mandolin players keep on using silly little triangular things when ud players worked out a better design more than 1000 years ago?

If you use a strip of flexible stuff a few inches long, the palm of your hand can help hold it in alignment. It's much less strain on your fingers.

I have a few suggestions on my cumbus page:

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/Music/Cumbus/cumbus.html

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:29 AM

There have been some older threads where I asked this very question. Since that time, I found a new pick called "Cool" which has a slight rubberized grip on both sides where the thumb and 1st finger grip it. Works GREAT! My son gave me a pile of them as a gift, so I don't know how much they cost, and he either got them at Guitar Center or Rudy's in Manhattan, both places he formerly worked.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: JeremyC
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:13 AM

Hell, I've been playing guitar for half my life, and I still occasionally lose my pick or have it shift to the side while I'm strumming. The most annoying thing of all, though, is that sometimes, when I'm strumming, I'll catch the nail of my index finger on the strings. My right hand nails are longish and acryllic-ed for fingerpicking because I have thin natural nails (and they tear, break, and do all sorts of awful things). So I'll hit my index fingernail on the string and it'll sometimes actually catch and gouge the acryllic on the side, which HURTS.

So there's a problem I have yet to solve.

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:10 AM

Gorilla Snot.

eric

Subject: RE: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: Peace
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:08 AM

It's a delicate balance between too tight and not tightly enough. Just takes time.

Subject: how to keep hold of your pik???
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 07 - 10:07 AM

I have just started learning the mandolin, having played fiddle for a number of years. The only problem im having is that as im playing a tune, my pik will start slipping in my grip and the tip will begin to rotate one way or the other. This often ends up in me having to stop playing to re-place my pik in its right position.
I have tried to grip my pik harder and that doesnt work, it just hurts my hand!!! Has anybody got any tips???? or is this just a common problem which disapears in time??

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-