young folk tradition undermining folk

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: BB
Date: 29 Jul 07 - 03:14 PM

I'm sorry, Diane, that you see the use of the word 'youngsters' as being 'extraordinarily patronising'! To me at nearly 60, they are 'youngsters', whether they're in their teens, twenties or even thirties: they are of a generation at least one later than me. I do not believe stating that to be patronising. And, yes, I do recognise that there are mature students on the course, although I haven't yet met any of them. Nor did I 'concede one or two a few grudging words of stinted approval' - or at least that was not my intention. Why do you always seem to read the worst into what people say rather than the best? I find that sad.

Barbara

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: treewind
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 09:01 AM

'loud folk' You're right about Bellowhead not being folk rock. They aren't really categorisable!

Actually I reckon that Dr Faustus were a 60's style folk rock band without any electric instruments or drums, based on hearing them at a concert before they disbanded.

But the point is not necessarily about rock music - it's about using trad material in a style that is modern and recognisable to people who listen to pop music, what ever that is. Jim Moray does that. It's not folk rock, you might call it folk-pop or folk-electronica or something.

Anyway no need to split hairs - they're certainly all playing a lot of trad music to people who wouldn't be seen dead in a folk club.

Anahata

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 06:30 AM

I think we'd all be better just getting on with what we do.

Does any of this actually matter...?

one day we'll all be dead and we've spent the time being grumpy with each other.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 06:13 AM

ANY MUSICIAN, not just Sage alumni, who is getting on with playing to those who'd rather chew their own limbs off than go to a 'f*lk club' is getting it right.

Actually, we've had quite a few Newcastle graduates (and tutors) at our club. Both they and the audience seemed to enjoy the experience.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 04:09 AM

It's odd... I always thought of Bellowhead, Mawkin etc as doing 'loud folk' rather than 'folk rock', but I suspect that's a distinction that only exists in my own head. You're absolutely right of course.

Cheer

Nigel

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 03:26 AM

How striking the contrast between the last two posts above (not counting Anahata who has just negated my last paragraph!)

It is extraordinarily patronising to describe any young person as a 'youngster' and concede one or two a few grudging words of stinted approval, still less when they are undergraduates on a demanding and tough course. Besides, they're not that 'young', if age be considered a criteria as many graduates and still on the course are so-called 'mature' students.

ANY MUSICIAN, not just Sage alumni, who is getting on with playing to those who'd rather chew their own limbs off than go to a 'f*lk club' is getting it right.
It's the large proportion of begrudging and blinkered denizens of the outdated 'clubs' who need to get out more and discover what is actually occurring musically.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: treewind
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 03:22 AM

"Meanwhile I'm just waiting for a few of the new young traditionalists to take it upon themselves to plug in, crank it up to eleven and become the 21st century equivalent of Steeleye Span, Mr Fox, Albion Country Band etc... Bring it on!"

Bellowhead? Mawkin? Many e-ceilidh bands populated with rockers of various ages... Jim Moray? You don't have to look far.

Anahata

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 03:06 AM

I love the idea of this course. The main problem - as far as I can see - is that it's the only one of its type in the country, indicating how marginalised and undervalued traditional music is in the UK... Any course is going to turn out a variety of people - from the soundest and loveliest to vile tossers. I think it's unfair to judge on the basis of one or two bad examples. Personally, I think if the course produces people like Jim it's doing something right. I just hope some of them are able to take the music to a none folk audience in the way people like Alistair Roberts are doing. It's vitally important to move beyond the cosy and self-referential folk scene. Seeing James Raynard on the bill at last year's Green Man Festival, for example, was reassuring and hopefully the shape of things to come- playing to a crowd who'd rather chew off their own limbs than go to a folk club. In fact I'd rather they played weddings, parties and school fetes than got trapped in the folk scene...hee hee.

Meanwhile I'm just waiting for a few of the new young traditionalists to take it upon themselves to plug in, crank it up to eleven and become the 21st century equivalent of Steeleye Span, Mr Fox, Albion Country Band etc... Bring it on!

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: BB
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 05:03 PM

We have met several of the 'youngsters' when we've been doing the 'Face the Music' conversations at Broadstairs Folk Week, and most of them have been skilled, knowledgeable and above all passionate about the music, as have several who we've met in other circumstances. I suppose there are always going to be those who are only interested in the glory and fame of the big stage, and there are always going to be those with whom we disagree about how songs should be sung or arranged. I still feel that the social setting of the music is important, though, and thus the more intimate situation of a folk club or similar is, in my opinion, more appropriate than the big stage.

Jim, having met a number of people who have taken the Newcastle course, I think on balance that it has been beneficial. I'm certainly aware of how Chris Coe is able to instill her enthusiasm for the songs and their sources into other people! I was particularly delighted that, in talking to one musician from Northern Ireland, I found that he has discovered through the course that England had traditional music of its own. I think the course has opened many eyes, and if the benificiaries of it are able to pass some of that knowledge and enthusiasm onto other young people (something that few of our generation have been able to do!), that can only be to the good.

Barbara

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 06:12 PM

Excellent post Jim, who I recently saw perform and who was then off on a train journey home - four changes of train.

Easy life being a folk singer.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: treewind
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 04:31 PM

Well, that's settled the matter then.

Hi Jim, nice to see you here!
Anahata

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,Jim Causley
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM

One of the reasons folk degree students might not be interested in this thread is because they're tired of this argument that has been ranting on with countless threads exactly like this one since before the Newcastle degree began!

The first point i always put forward is; Are you saying that our traditional music isn't worthy of being studied at degree level alongside jazz, popular and classical musics?

The other thing is that there are so many different kinds of people who choose to study on the course. An encouraging amount of mature students, and a lot of people who will never get mentioned on these message boards because they simply couln't be less interested in being a professional performer, very wise if you ask me!

And the course is not a folk fame factory! just like any degree, people go in with their own personal agendas, yes some will want to be folk stars but they really are in the minority. Some will want to play stupdly fast tunes and not give a damn about playing with feeling or relating to an audience but again, you're going to get people like that wether they've been on a folk degree or not. Personally i learnt all i know about performing from playing in rock bands on the exeter pub circuit when i was at college and playing folk clubs when i was supposed to be studying in newcastle! The best thing for me when i was at newcastle was having the time and resources to really research and soak up all the music that i love and am passionate about and i don't think i would have discovered half of the great songs or the old singers if it wasn't for having Sandra Kerr and Chris Coe around to inspire and encourage me.

When i started the degree i had no idea who anyone was or had ever heard of FolkWorks or even Mike Harding(!) I had just gotten really interested in folksong from going to local clubs and reading books in the library. i was very innocent of the wider folk scene before i became a 'product' of the folk degree. God i hate it when people say that! like i was completely void of skill before i went up there and then magically Sandra Kerr taught me to sing like a mouse!

what i do for a career and whatever sucess i have had has very little to do with the folk degree. the folk degree didn't mold me and get me bookings at folk clubs and it certainly didn't teach me any stage craft, i did all that myself because i chose to and i've worked bloody hard too so that's why it gets me hot under the coller when people who don't actually know anything about the degree go making sweeping statements and generalisations and announcing that all you have to do to get sucessful is enroll at newcastle and bob's your uncle you've got a folk award, what nonsense!

And finally about young folkies undermining the tradition; yeah some of them probably will. singing songs and playing tunes with no feeling, being dull on stage and rude to organisers and claiming to represent traditional music and we'll all get really annoyed and embarrassed but hey you can't stop the little f**kers, some folks even enjoy and encourage 'em! But for all the crap there are loads of really switched-on and intelligent young folkies out there doing really great stuff so we need to concentrate on encouraging them. there always has been and always will be awful performers who will look like they're gonna ruin everything but as many wise people have observed; traditional music is tough stuff and you simply can't kill it! if somebody sings your favourite song really badly we say they've murdered it but in truth we know thats rubbish, the song still exists in its purest form completely unharmed waiting for someone to come along and sing it well.

folk music will be just fine, it's not going anywhere so stop worrying and just enjoy playing /singing it and listening to the people who do it justice in your eyes.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Cath
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 07:52 AM

And a thriving Open Mic session in Holmfirth every other week with ages ranging from below 16 to over 60.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,bobcat
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 06:20 AM

The Grove Folk Club in Leeds (going some 40 years )is flourishing. On the third Friday there is third Friday sing which is a singers' night for one and all but featuring local singers who can get a prebooked mini spot. There can be 60 plus there some weeks and young enthusiasts are in the majority. Certainly in this neck of the woods there are a lot of younger folk enthusiasts who just want to sing and play. First Friday sing is equally busy....a good place for young hopefuls to sing their stuff, both self-penned and traditional.And we oldies like the mix!!
Interestingly numbers are not so great on guest nights...when it costs £6 to get in(as opposed to free-buy a raffle ticket on singers nights). In the north it would seem people like to sing/take part.
Not just Leeds City but taking part sessions are big and spreading...try The Abbey at Newlay Leeds, The Owl at Rodley, The Chemic, Leeds and others....even more in the Yorkshire Dales...

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,bobcat
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 06:08 AM

Some entries back....no local folk radio prog in the north...Have a look at the Durbervilles website. They do Radio Folk on a Sunday on local Radio Aire
Discussion seems to have drifted in last few days......

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:19 AM

Idont like Daniel o Donnell.Kate Rusby, Seth Lakeman,MikeSilver,AlanTaylor.
Iwouldnt say their undermining folk,just doing there own thing, which isnt to my taste.
but then they probably dont like me either.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 06:52 AM

"...all music evolves..."

It does, does it? I suspect that this is an example of the 'progress myth' (things have a tendency to get better). Unfortunately, 'it ain't necessarily so'(to coin a phrase).

As far as I can see, what happens in music is that, at certain times, certain forms tend to dominate. Think of the dominance of the Western Classical form over all other forms of music on world concert stages. And think of how the the Rock form has come to dominate popular music. I suppose that some will argue that this is evolution at work - but there is no law which says that a particular individual has to like it.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,Carol B
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 09:08 AM

How can they undermine folk? it depends by what youmean by folk and music in general. all music evolves. alot of these young bands are very grounded in the folk tradition and you can tell from their music. its like art. you get a good grounding in the masters and then you take it to a new level.its all about evolution. and not sitting around playing the same tunes in the same way over and over for time immemorial. the tunes are not being lost. we got the comhaltas for irish music and tht is very strong. and the children who go thru this are very grounded in trad.

also, this is whether you like ti or not a globalizing world and folk-fusion is becoming the new folk. but still, of course there is room for the old folk.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: concertina ceol
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 01:40 PM

There should be a reward for reading all that! Oh yes time for tea!

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

Ain't it the truth... "I sing, you show off, he/she is a primadonna". There an exhibitionist in many of us who vie for the next floorspot or the extra 2 minutes to our slot. But we only see the flaw in others.

I wonder if such attitudes were as prevalent (if they existed at all) back when people sang in their homes for pleasure.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 06:24 PM

people are people whatever their ages,you get young egotists, middle aged egotists, and old egotists.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Tootler
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 01:49 PM

they have a tendency to take over to such an extent that you can't get a song in edgeways

I saw the same thing happen last Saturday only the person who "took over" was well into his 60's.

As someone said above, it is not only the young who do that.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: treewind
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:00 AM

It's not as if any other age group wouldn't do the same. I've seen all sorts of people or groups dominate sessions, especially likely when there's a core group that know each other well. It can be unintentional - just so easy to jump in with a tune when you know for a fact that at least three other people in the room know it and will join in.

I've also been to a session full of youngsters that seemed to be very happy to let everyone involved "do their own thing" with no particular clique trying to take over.

Anahata

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:16 AM

Probably.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:05 AM

The young people coming out of the folk music degree courses are excellent musicians and singers - no doubt about it. But in my recent experience when they get together in an informal session - such as at a Morris weekend - they have a tendency to take over to such an extent that you can't get a song in edgeways. The exhuberance of youth?

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: BB
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 02:27 PM

Hear, hear, DaveS. Much what I said some 250 posts ago! (But much less succinctly!)

Barbara

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 09:44 AM

Stacey and I sat at the same table at Traditions at the Tiger a few weeks ago and we seemed to communicate all right regardless of the forty one year age gap!The same way as I would expect to interact with any of the youngsters who come to our club to sing, play or listen. When I was Stacey's age I was bloody grateful for the advice that I received from the likes of John Revie, Pete Elliott or Johnny Handle and throughout the ensuing years I have always considered that you are never too old, or young, to learn.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Dave Earl
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:46 AM

"Why waste time and energy slagging each other off when there are so many useful and enjoyable things we could be doing? "

E Bogle wrote :-
"..... And I ask myself the same question"

Seems to me that "They" do it "Their" way but "We" do it "Our" way is always going to be a cause for argument.

Such a waste of effort. Why is their not space for both?

Dave

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:29 AM

Some people choose to blame everything that gets up their noses on one specific sub-group of society. Then they make that group a target for all their pent-up rage and frustration. This is a very ancient human failing, but unfortunately still with us.

Capitalists and Socialists, Christians and Jews, Blacks and Whites, Hindus and Moslems … they've all been targeted. And one of the most frequent temptations is to blame all society's ills on the old - or on the young.

Of course who counts as old or young depends on your personal circumstances. Many years ago, a lot of my fellow teenagers used to rage at the insensitivity and incompetence of almost everybody over the age of twenty.   More recently, I've heard people in their mid-eighties complaining bitterly about all those "young fellows" (meaning mere striplings in their sixties) who show no respect or consideration for the elderly (meaning themselves).

Those who make a hobby out of scapegoating others are boring. Those who make a career out of it are dangerous. All of us are members of the same (human) race, and all of us - old or young – are on this wonderful planet for a tragically short span. Why waste time and energy slagging each other off when there are so many useful and enjoyable things we could be doing? (Like playing music, for instance.)

Wassail!

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: EuGene
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:18 PM

Golly, I gotta find my old poem about our little coffee house "The Real Dirt" in NW DC that closed down about 1965. One of the guys who had been singing and playing some sort of balalaika looking thing with a neck about a yard long borrowed the paper that I wrote the poem on and started playing and singing the poem, composing on the fly . . . it was beautiful.

We all came back the next day and helped load up the tables, chairs, cups, dishes, coffee pots, etc. all the while singing "The Death of the Real Dirt". It was a sad day. Eu

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: oggie
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:03 PM

No-one "blew" anything. Even it's supposed heyday folk was always a minority interest, be it dance, music or song. Today the Seth Lakemans and Kate Rusbys of this world are still a minority interest. So is jazz, classical music, heavy metal, goth metal et al. At the Hawkwind Festival there were punters aged 1 to 80, at any Folk Festival the range is about the same. There are young talented musicians out there, not all playing in clubs but making music, probably more than there have been for many years. Very few will make a living from it, but how many from the "good old days" did either?

Good music or spectacle (morris dancers rule OK) will find an audience, it may not be the way things were (craftworkers don't do general markets or busk, I make my living doing both) but that's the way things change. Coffee bars don't have folksingers now, pubs do, life moves on and so does the music.

Adding to the tradition, writing songs that reflect lost ways of life are fine, don't make it folk and don't make it a living and you'll only know if you added to the tradition long after you're gone.

In the long run making a living depends on ability, guts, perseverance, business sense and a lot of good luck. You can survive for a while with one of these missing but in the long road you need them all. Maybe birth or a degree helps for a while but it's a long time to your pension.

There is also a BIG difference between a hobby and a living, folk music is my hobby, it don't matter if I can't go to a session because of flooding, my craft is my living, it matters that I can't work because my workshop is flooded.

My last comment for Stacey is a piece of advice given to Slade by Staus Quo (but not original) "Be nice to people on the way up because you'll meet them again on the way down"

All the best

Steve Ogden

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: countrylife
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:47 PM

"but are deviating from authenticity,and are an irrelevancy"
funnily enough I remember someone say something like that about
Liege & Lief when it was issued all those years ago.....nothing much changes does it? (It All Comes Round Again)
Me I'm a politically incorrect old git of 58....*LOL*

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:23 PM

young folk tradition undermining folk.
Well one person who writes to this forum[no names no packdrill],would say that they are not part of the folk tradition ,that they are part of the folk revival,and that the folk revival has nothing to do with traditional singing.,or the folk tradition.
so if you extended this argument logically,the young tradition are not undermining folk,but are deviating from authenticity,and are an irrelevancy.[this is not necessarily my opinion]Dick Miles [Philistine]

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:11 PM

Old git?
Just quoting someone who admited to being 66 and out of touch.

Yes, I'm the same age as Mr Tyger. So he says.
I never listen to a word Swarb says, though singing is a different matter.
Nor do I read anything Patrick Humphries writes.
Just been out and got some Polish beer so I'm feeling less bored.
And I think I know who you are, countrylife.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:56 PM

This is getting heavy, lighten up and try the thread 'Old Folkers never die' and have a laugh. That means you Don (Wyziwyg)T

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,countrylife
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM

I shouldn't allow folk like that to push buttons....I do apologise.
and um.....old git eh? *LOL* I would state the obvious about age, Diane, but aren't you the same age as Ashley Hutchings? I seem to remember reading that, somewhere among the threads....and this IS waaayyyyyy off topic...*LOL*

Anyway, nothing wrong with progression as long as it's not progression for progression's sake...and I do miss that smokey old room in the back of the pub.....and I'm also reminded of Swarb's quote in Patrick Humphries, Meet on the Ledge: A History of the Fairport Convention...you may know the quote..

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:28 PM

It IS petty when some people can't keep to topic.
And confusing when a line has been eaten from my post.
What I typed was that there are those who exclude themselves from new progressions . . .
. . . or something.
I'm bored.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Declan
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:26 PM

I suppose some might consider it childish to point out that - YOU STARTED IT!

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: McMullen
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:23 PM

stop quarelling its petty now

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:22 PM

No, not original but right in many respects.
But this has NO BEARING on the current debate.
Nor has the blustering from the old git who assumes he's being got at.
There IS another revival happening.THEMSELVES from it.
Who is undermining who?

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: GUEST,countrylife
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 04:14 PM

"There is another folk revival happening and you are not invited. You had your chance and you wasted it. Sorry."

I see, Dan, and you got the job of handing out the invites did you?
It's the old let's blame the previous generation for the current mess...not very original Danny Boy...you self righteous little tick.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM

Yes, course I did.
Dan said: There is another folk revival happening and you are not invited
He's quite right .
But he was as much off-topic (for the purpose of this thread) as Don T's very strange and intemperate ramblings.
Makes you wonder why peeps find it so hard to read the title in the box before placing fingers on keyboard.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Dave Earl
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 03:34 PM

Diane,
Did you not see Guest Dan's post.

I think that's what got up Don's nose. And were I he I'd be miffed too.

Dave

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: McMullen
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 03:26 PM

lol people people, i think we all have stated our views and opinions nice and structured, it has certainly widened my viewpoint and i hope it has widened the view of many both for and against. It is inevitable there are downsides and upsides, but in my dogmatic view i suppose i have only seen the bad :)

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 03:06 PM

Erm, 'scuse me.
I thought it was the 'young folk tradition' (whatever that is) that's under fire here.
Who mentioned 66-year-olds with boiling blood?

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 02:53 PM

Folk music has struggled, and in some areas is still struggling, to survive against the tide of commercial pap produced by the "Music Industry", and the constant erosion of suitable venues (Thank you so much Tony B Liar).

I do, however think it is in the process of an overall improvement as regards festivals and concert venues.

What does make my blood boil, after 47 years of performing at, and running folk clubs, and endeavouring to be as inclusive in my approach as humanly possible, is to be told that any problems are my fault because I am 66 years old and out of touch.

I've put most of my life into this, and passed on all that I could to any youngsters who showed an interest, and if not for people like me there would be bugger all for them to show an interest in.

I bitterly resent being disrespected by people who, in the main, have sat on their fat arses while somebody like Herga Kitty, Vic & Tina, John Breeze, Richard Bridge (with the very talented and able Jacqui Walker), has done all the bloody work.

If, (and I do mean IF) the folk club scene is suffering a decline, perhaps it might have been averted if more of our Oh so clever companions had offered all the bright ideas they now boast of, at the time when new ideas were really needed.

Now I'm out of here cos I'm sick of being told how we got it all wrong.

Don T.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Declan
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:53 PM

The lines from Palaces of Gold came into my head when reading WLDs post below it. I was not actually endorsing the sentiments. Thats why there was a smilie in there. At least Diane got the reference.

Nor did I mean to slag off any particular daughter of a sound engineer - she gets far too much unwarranted bad press around here already in my opinion.

It is to be expected that music will pass down through families and that some of those who are exposed to the music from their early youth are likely to embrace the tradition and become very good at it. I know many fine traditional musicians in this country who have been handed their music down from a previous generation, and many who didn't. As I said luck is a factor and accidents of birth count as luck in my opinion.

Dan, if you have read the thread here you might notice that it was started by an 18 year old - who chose the title. I think if there is any degree of uniformity to the responses it is generally dismissive of the thread title, which I think Stacey chose to encourage debate - which certainly succeeded.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: stallion
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 01:36 PM

No FD I don't think it is dying it is changing as it ever did but if there is any pressure on it it is from within and the resistance to change or "go with the flow"

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:44 PM

Nice to see some positive stuff here, but baby, bathwater, etc.

Subject: RE: young folk tradition undermining folk
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Jun 07 - 10:36 AM

"In the last few years a generation of artists, journalists, workshop leaders and dancers under 35..."

What - and they've done this in a vacuum? They haven't been taught, guided, and mentored by members of the older generation who are perceptive enough to welcome youth, development and even (*gasp*) change?

I'm only a few years older than the generation you're talking about. Some people may have missed the party because of their narrow-minded intransigence, but I can think of a fair few in their 50s and 60s who are right in the middle of it, handing out the cake.