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Do you think Mudcat should...
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Subject: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Bert Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:25 PM Offer an online degree in folk music. Having read other threads re the pros and cons of a folk music degree. Surely WE have the talent and the authority to do just that. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: skipy Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:27 PM Interesting concept. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Jun 07 - 03:43 PM Well, Bert, I often tell people I feel I'm getting a graduate education in musicology here. Mudcat has certainly helped me move up from Peter, Paul and Mary and camp songs. -Joe (but I still like PP&M & camp)- |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Bert Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:16 PM OK Joe, You can teach the camp songs part of the course. I've seen you work, there can be no doubt that that is folk music. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:38 PM Yes, but to offer a credible degree - someone has to grade the papers. An ugly and disagreeable aspect of good teaching. John |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Big Mick Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:39 PM What a great concept, Bert old buddy. Mick |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Jim Lad Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM Why not just print Mudcat money and be done with it? |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Leadfingers Date: 26 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM But wont we have to define Folk Music first ? |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Don Firth Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:17 PM ". . . define Folk Mus—!??" (Firth covers head and runs shrieking from the room!) |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Sorcha Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:31 PM (sorch joins firth going forth!!!!) |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: freightdawg Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:41 PM (looking quizzically with his head cocked at a 45 degree angle) I didn't know there was anything above PP&M. Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rapparee Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:46 PM You serious about this, or do you just want me to join Sorcha and Firth? |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Bert Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:50 PM Serious. We KNOW what folk is. It's what we do here. We could have one class on definition and scope. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: wysiwyg Date: 26 Jun 07 - 05:53 PM No. Most "should" questions are a NO, and most "could" questions are a YES. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Susan of DT Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:17 PM We really do not want to be a diploma mill and illegal. While we may, collectively, have the knowledge to run such an endeavor (should we ever be able to agree on anything), but we have no authority to grant degrees. Diploma mills are prosecuted for mail fraud. Anyone claiming to hold a degree from an unaccredited "school" who uses that degree to obtain a job can be fired when this is discovered. In the US. I doubt that Bert or anyone else was serious about this, but just in case someone thinks it sounds good - it doesn't. And those of us associated with academe could get in trouble for being associated with such an illegal and inappropriate endeavor. Who me, a wet blanket? |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Sorcha Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:23 PM Really, seriously, no, I don't think so. Take way too much money, time, effort, etc to be truly accredited. What Susan and Susan said. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: George Papavgeris Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:29 PM Susan is right of course, but just imagine - we could run the We could award de-grease.... Or dip low mass... We could give awards - anyone can give awards. Or commendations. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: GUEST,Russ Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:29 PM Mudcat should offer an advanced degree in rational discourse:) As well as one in invective:) Russ (Permanent GUEST) |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: concertina ceol Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM upgrade the forum software to something more helpful to reasoned debate and academic study - but then we would all have to pay fees - oh just like "real" university..... |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rowan Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:45 PM Cringe! Perish the thought! Even though there's much serious (and serial) competency on display. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: John Hardly Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:47 PM "Yes, but to offer a credible degree - someone has to grade the papers." roflmao! |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rapparee Date: 26 Jun 07 - 06:57 PM The MC could affiliate with a legit university and offer the degree via their music department. Or a certificate, if not a degree. Split the money with the U. Distance learning is very big now. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Bert Date: 26 Jun 07 - 07:36 PM Susan, I think that the legalities could be overcome. One way would be as Rapaire suggests. Another would be to get accredited. We surely have enough experienced folk musicians and The DT is an extremely valuable database, If you think it's a bad idea then OK. You opinion is greatly respected as you are one of our best ballad singers. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Leadfingers Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:00 PM De-Grease ?? Thats what i call a quick shower !! |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Susan of DT Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:02 PM Thank you, Bert. It is not that easy to get accredited. Since "certificates" don't mean anything (legally) as long as the recipients are not "certified" in any field a state regulates, that might be possible. To grant a "degree" one needs to be recognized as a college and offer the entire program. I am not familiar with practices outside the US. To interest an academic partner, there would need to be enough money in it to interest them, which might mean charging more money than we want to if the aim is to be accessible. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Sorcha Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:06 PM Money? Mudcat and MONEY? Oxymoron. Ask Max. Ask Max about the degree thing, not us. He would be the one with the headaches. I think he has enough just now. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: GUEST,Art Thieme Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:10 PM As I am fond of saying, "There is nothing wrong with going for a degree, as long as it doesn't get in the way of your education!" Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: gnu Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:16 PM Can I apply for Professor of Bodhranology? I know I am banging my own drum, but.... |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JohnInKansas Date: 26 Jun 07 - 08:17 PM Would someone please inform freightdawg that in addition to there being whole new hordes of "Folkies," besides PP&M, some self-described "folk" musicians have even been known to use more than three chords in the same song. If I had established a more personal relationship with the dawg I'd certainly volunteer to carry the news myself, but anything so potentially distressing should be conveyed in a safe and friendly setting with supportive persons present who can predict and regulate any self-destructive tendencies elicited by the news. John |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:49 PM If no university is interested in partnering with Mudcat to offer a degree in folk music, perhaps we could interest a police department in partnering to establish a Folk Police Academy. Upon completion, Folk Police Officers would be qualified to visit pubs on session nights and issue citations for infractions like excessive speed while playing hornpipes, improper chord substitution, or noodling a bouzouki while a singer attempts to sing an unaccompanied ballad. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rapparee Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:53 PM Berklee. OTS of FM. Sibelius. Sage Gateshead. If you don't ask, you'll never get "No" for an answer. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rapparee Date: 26 Jun 07 - 09:55 PM Yeah, but wouldn't "Folk Criminal Justice" be a triple oxymoron or something? |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: freightdawg Date: 26 Jun 07 - 10:23 PM Doom, despair and agony on me deep down depression, excessive misery if it weren't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all, doom, despair, and agony on me! I logged on to my favorite 'puter location and thought I would get a right honorable education 'til in Kansas a feller named John snatched from my paws the thinking I'd done and left me with nothing but introspective meditation Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: GUEST,Cats at work Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:00 AM I already mark and grade papers for a university and lecture for them on the foundation degree course, but not in music. It's not the happy side of the work! |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JennyO Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:20 AM I think there should be a degree in BS for the dedicated souls who have read the MOAB from beginning to end - currently standing at a mere 18,003 posts. Although I am not as frequent a poster there as Amos, Rapaire, SRS, MMario and some others, I have in fact followed it from the beginning, mostly lurking. but occasionally posting. I was very tempted to snatch post number 18,000, but I didn't think it would be fair. I showed great restraint in not doing it I thought, only to have it snatched by another drive-by poster, Bill D. So no more Mrs Nice Guy. I have dibs on pinwheel number 19061! As for the degree, a decorative wall plaque would be nice. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: George Papavgeris Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:39 AM Plaque means nothing - I used to have plenty of plaque. Not very decorative. The dentist took care of it. (gets coat) |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Susan of DT Date: 27 Jun 07 - 06:49 AM What is our object here? If we want to have some members offer "courses" in various aspects of folk music, have fun sharing information, and award some sort of certificate when a certain number of courses have been successfully completed, that can be done, if we can get it together. The legal problems come in if we call it a "degree." If people really want to do this (NOT as a degree), I can help with some of the design/organization. I have experience in curriculum design (not in music)/programs for adult learners. We would probably want this to be pretty informal. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: MBSLynne Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:02 AM No |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JennyO Date: 27 Jun 07 - 08:34 AM George - as Terry Pratchett said - "A plaque on both your houses!" |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Mooh Date: 27 Jun 07 - 08:43 AM First dibs on first drop out...Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rapparee Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:05 AM Those who have read the MOAB from beginning to end will receive a BS in BS. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JennyO Date: 27 Jun 07 - 10:21 AM OK, I'll bite. What does the first BS stand for? And do we get a wall plaque - or at least a teeny tiny certificate? |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: katlaughing Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:13 AM Bachelor of Science for Bull Shit...:-) |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: wysiwyg Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:22 AM Some US folks also know about Continuing Education Credits.... these are also highly regulated, though, similarly to what Susan of DT alluded to upthread about degree programs. We need a vocab cert too. Pendulous, Bulbous, Vulcanize, Alluded To...... ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JennyO Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:32 AM Bachelor of Science. Hmm. That's the obvious one. But it could be a Bulbous Spatula. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: wysiwyg Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:44 AM That would fit right in-- "How many BSes do you hold?" ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rapparee Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:44 AM The "BS" to which I referred means "Bee-dubya-ell's Spatula." You are served your BS on the BS, if you can picture that. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JennyO Date: 27 Jun 07 - 11:48 AM So I guess it isn't bulbous then. Otherwise the BS would fall off. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: SINSULL Date: 27 Jun 07 - 12:24 PM For money? No. For educational purposes. Yes. |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: JohnInKansas Date: 27 Jun 07 - 05:22 PM Privacy regulations (in the US at least) would not permit students to post correspondence with faculty on a public forum such as Mudcat. A separate and independent website would be an obvious requirement, with appropriate security and privacy provisions. The separate website need have no "name-connection" with Mudcat, although "faculty" could perhaps be recruited from the Mudcat membership. Faculty recruited from Mudcat could of course at "MM" (mudcat member) to their CVs, which certainly would be as impressive as most of the rest of the alphabet soup commonly seen. As soon as Bert sets up his website, he can ask if anyone here wishes to participate in his online academy and would surely be buried in an avalanch of volunteeeeers. Once commitments are firmly made and confirmed, presumedly with payment of "binding retainers" to the proposed faculty, an application for accreditition could be submitted, preferably to a governing group with the highest academic standing such as Pago Pago, a small South African country, or other offshore location. As participants here using the name GUEST appear to be most eager to We'll need to reconsider as soon as Bert has established a formal list of curricula and at least a preliminary faculty. (Please PM for my requirements for retainder fee and contract stipulations.) John |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Rowan Date: 27 Jun 07 - 07:09 PM Mudcat degrees? A plague of plaques on your houses! Although I suspect there's room for mentions of "Meritorious Mudcat Conduct" whereby small (credit card sized?) copies of the Mudcat Logo could be sent to those who were recommended by more than some specified number of members; they could have their name and the "Field of Conduct" under the logo. Max and Susan for their efforts above all go without saying but I can think of other examples; Joe Offer for major forbearance, JohninKansas for astute technological explanations, Azizi for children's play lore and/or (how could I best put it?) 'minority' American folklore, Malcolm Douglas for bibliographic referencing, Bob Bolton for Oz-relevant bibliographic referencing (and he does a great line in similar cards for Ozcatters), and I'll leave the BS awards to the afficionados. But we all know all this anayway, so why make unnecessary work for our already stretched volunteers? Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 27 Jun 07 - 09:49 PM The easy way to grade the papers would be in inverse order of density (of the submitter?) or directly according to the fees paid... Hey, where are the MMWs (Mudcat Maths Whizzers1)? Thay can derive a formula... I haven't seen Major Forbearance for a while, isn't he running the Mudcat Military Music History Section? "De-Grease ?? Thats what I call a quick shower !!" Wasn't De-Grease the Folk Music Sequel to a certain Rock Music Movie? Robin M.A. (T.W.) 1 May have spelt it wrong, but I prefer it that way! |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 28 Jun 07 - 06:47 AM We skifflers can loiter behind the bike sheds, avoiding the serious stuff! (30+ years working in academe was enough for me!) RtS |
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Subject: RE: Do you think Mudcat should... From: Big Al Whittle Date: 28 Jun 07 - 07:28 AM I get the impression some of our members have awarded themselves such a qualification many years ago. Moreover they know what a real folksong is, and what real folk music is - and the rest of you - well you know nowt. No point in you applying for a prospectus. |
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