BS: English Sandwich?

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 30 Jun 07 - 05:24 AM

Dave, the Liverpudlian butty you are talking about is the ancestor of the modern butty. That's where it all started, but butties, like so many organic things, evolve.

Guess what I just had for breakfast??

I've just recently found an old fashioned butcher's shop near me, which I've started to use regularly. They not only slaughter the animals themselves but have a board outside so you know where it came from...name of the farm and the village. It's all locally produced. My son, who was cooking bacon for his breakfast, called me down and asked what the little white bits in the bacon were. He thought they were teeth! In my childhood all bacon had the little white bone and my Mum used to cut them out and give them to us to such the meat off as it was supposed to be the tastiest bit. I can't believe my son, at 16 has never seen bacon with the bone in!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: JennieG
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:58 PM

At folk festivals here in Oz there is usually a 'Poets Breakfast' - ie. listening to poetry recitals while having one's freshly cooked bacon and egg roll. Sublime. Soft white roll, crispy bacon, runny egg and sauce.

Some wusses just go for the poetry with no bacon and egg roll......!

I never make them at home, that's our treat when we go to a festival.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: The Walrus
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:33 PM

To add my own two penn'orth.

For the best Bacon buttie - use Middle cut bacon and, as with the better sausage sarnies, this should be between two thick slices cut from a fresh loaf (hand cut from a REAL with a bread saw - NOT that pre sliced muck) - as for toppings you pays your money and you takes your choice.

Walrus.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:38 PM

'Ken Dood' being 'Ken Dodd' in reality. Proofreading goes out of the window in the early hours of a Saturday morning.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Dave Roberts
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:36 PM

I'm sorry if someone has mentioned this before but surely what is being discussed here is a bacon sandwich rather than a bacon 'butty'?

Any Liverpudlian will tell you that a 'butty' is ONE slice of bread (the crust of the bread for preference) thickly buttered and finished off with dollops of jam.

The 'jam butty' of Ken Dood and the Diddymen fame, in fact.

Though I'm prepared to concede that, through custom and practice, 'bacon butty' might be considered legitimate by some, even though TWO slices of bread are involved.

Perhaps I should get out more?

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:10 PM

A food thread can go on for about twenty messages and be very stimulating to my appetite. The first day of the life of this thread, I had a real yearning for a bacon butty, especially since I've never had one. Around about message twenty, I had heard enough of buttys that I didn't want one, but then I started craving a pork sarnie.
Now I just feel full, stuffed to the gills. Can't think of food any more.
Maybe if I keep reading food threads, I'll start losing weight.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:40 PM

aye but yer clothes wid fall tae bits. especially if it got hot

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:34 PM

Ice cream as a thread.....what a lovely thought..........

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:22 PM

I dunno about that. theres one folk club I go to and they use these industrial quality chips. the locals all scoff them up, but I reckon they've been cooked in engine oil.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:54 PM

Megan, really! I like haggis, but on its own please, it needs no added flavours.

In truth, I think the butty is disappearing. Now the office workers all want "subs", fancy bread, mayo - I ask you - and the poor honest butty is going the way of some folk clubs.

We need a butty revival movement! We need "butty bars" to open, with Make Your Own offers (pay a pound to get one slice of bread, stuff whatever you want in it and fold it).

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:42 PM

Now wrap the bacon around a nice slice of haggis and you are approaching nirvana. :p

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Llanfair
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:41 PM

Ah, Trevor, the Midway Truck stop!! Most famous transport cafe in the UK!!

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 03:49 PM

Black pudding...yuk!

The English didn't start the trend of naming their food by colour...blancmange has been around a long time!

Greek and/or Cypriot fish and chip shops are THE best. Either in England or Australia, the best fish and chips I ever had have been sold by Greeks or Greek Cypriots. The same as the best ice cream is made by the Italians. Now ice cream.......'nother thread FolkieDave?

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 03:43 PM

Back bacon readily available in any good grocery or supermarket in America; usually called Canadian Bacon. Generally sold unsliced; one cuts to the thickness desired.

In the sandwich I was talking about I use top quality streaky bacon, thick-sliced. Too crisp and all the great, lovely fatty taste disappears. Price varies according to quality; the best is at least twice the price of the ordinary.

Canadian (back) bacon is expensive relative to streaky; usually we serve it with eggs, sliced thick, lightly cooked and never dried out.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 03:06 PM

Robin, I love your theory. It should have been true, if there was any justice...

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 02:55 PM

Well Al, you know what they say.

Butty is in the eye of the bap holder.

G

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 02:41 PM

the thing is about the bacon butty - you would be wasting good food if you stuck it in two bits of Mothers Pride sort of bread. You just want some pungent sauce in all that processed crap, for a good bacon butty.

The same goes for sausage - who would waste a good lincolnshire sausage, by sandwiching it, or (more to the point) buttifying it?

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 01:36 PM

In the History of the Sandwich, probably second only to the Earl of Sandwich himself, is this gentleman:    CLICKY #1.

Of course, maintaining quality control over ingredients is important, or things can tend to get a bit out of hand:    CLICKY #2.

And in conclusion:    CLICKY #3.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:13 PM

Ah but did they deep fry pizzas?

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:10 PM

Actually George, I have heard that it was Chinese immigrants who accidentally - because of the language barrier - got on the wromng boat and ended up, not in the USA working on teh goldfields and railways, but England, who eked out a living by sharing their food culture - by taking small pieces of fish and battering & frying them them - not an unheard of Oriental food preparation technique - as well as chopping up small chunks of a cheap readily available vegetable and serving them too....
:-P

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 12:04 PM

I had fish and chips from a van in your home town George, very dry and bony it was too, I suspect it was made with bacalhau.
The thing about naming our food by it's colour is that the English are notoriously squeamish, and blood pudding wouldn't be half as popular as black pudding.
Think sweetbreads
Giok ¦¬]

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:52 AM

Greek fish and chip shops the worst? And rightly so - every Greek knows that fish should be grilled or fried, with a little olive oil and lemon. So they were betraying their own better sense by drenching them in batter and deep-frying them to buggery. (Though I bet pound to a penny they were Cypriots, not Greeks - different cuisine altogether).

OK, point taken about red wine etc. I was taking the mickey anyway. And as about food snobbery - I didn't get where I am today (135kg) by being snobbish about food!

And yes, we had fish and chips bakalau et pommes frites last night...

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 11:40 AM

George! I suppose you don't drink red wine, or eat haricots verts, or yellow peppers.

Any more food snobbery and we'll remind you that Greek fish and chip shops were considered the lowest of the low back when I wuz a lad...

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Trevor
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:54 AM

Mmmmmmmmm..........
Baaaaacccconnn Sammos!
A49, Prees Heath, Midway Truck Stop - THE BEST.
My son recently brought home some Irish brown sauce - much too sweet for my taste. Guess it's cos I'm a Black Country boy who likes his HP.
I remember my Dad coming out with the famous gag - 'We could 'ave some baircon 'n eggs if we 'ad some baircon. Trouble is, we ay got no eggs...'

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:53 AM

There you go. What great culinary delicacies can one expect in a country where flavours are described by colour (re sauce, white sauce, black pudding etc). I rest my case.

And reach for the plain bacon butty, with yellow sauce.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Stu
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:44 AM

After only a brief mention on this thread, I think we need to re-introduce black pud to the butty discussion.

A bacon and black pudding butty with red sauce - bliss. Note: Bacon is best bought from local butchers where it won't be the water-filled plastic the supermarkets pass for bacon. It's often a lot less fatty too. Black pud - once again, locally bought is best, Bury is best of all, especially if you buy it fresh of the market. Bread - white every time from cheapo sliced to doorstops of freshly baked, but barm cakes, muffins and stotties are also very much allowed - especially when combining bacon with egg/sausage or black pudding.

Yum.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Desdemona
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 10:08 AM

We live near Boston, but spend part of every summer with my family in Warwickshire. A few years ago, we were all eating fish and chips when my cousin and I began extolling the wondrous virtues of chip butties. My sons were aghast at the notion--we ordinarily eat a pretty healthy diet--but we told them to reserve judgement until they'd tried it. Unsurprisingly, they loved them, and while we all agreed that it's not the sort of thing to eat EVERY DAY, it's definitely something to eat while we're there...we leave in 2 weeks, and now I'm experiencing a positive craving!

~D

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:59 AM

I developed my taste for Haloumi when at work. The Office Manager was Greek and she organised the catering for the Work 'Customer Evenings' - her rellies would come in with the big racks of skewered meats, etc, she would prepare lots of tasty treats, and when I mentioned to her that I had never been game to try Haloumi - she told me she would ensure I got to know it. Properly prepared - it's yummy!

The ultimate sandwich - no need for bread either!

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:26 AM

I used proper coarse salt mixed with saltpetre. I think I used the right quantity...I had a recipe. Trouble is you need to use enough to preserve the stuff so if you cut it down too much it won't keep. I salt my own ham and that's not a problem cos I then boil it, so I bring it to the boil and pour off the water, then boil it in clean water. I guess that's the idea behind pouring boiling water over the bacon.


Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:22 AM

Haloumi is rubberised milk - not cheese. To this mainland Greek, that Cypriot so-called-cheese is anathema and an affront to the tastebuds.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Toobusybee
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 09:15 AM

Sausage sandwich with brown sauce for breakfast;

Cheese and onion sandwich for lunch ....

and I live on a butty....

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:39 AM

"am I the only person in the world to have melted CHEESE on my BB?"

Time I think, for El Greko to mention Haloumi...

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:23 AM

It still has to be salted before it's smoked Lynne, I expect you used too much salt, I had that problem at first especially as I used ordinary household salt, and in large quantities.
G

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 08:19 AM

but then that's a whole other discussion!

I'll start a thread on that one!!

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:22 AM

Not just teenaged vegetarians. It's the one thing that most adult vegetarians I know have either given in to or been on the verge of doing.

Giok, I expect you smoke your bacon do you? I've salted my own bacon before but it was terribly salty. (Yes, well, I guess one might expect that?). Someone has told me that if I pour boiling water over it and leave it a minute then dry it it's ok. I may have another go.

The most enjoyable 'fry-ups' of any kind that I've had have been after getting up at the crack of dawn, going and milking cows, cleaning up afterwards, then going in for breakfast. Tastes better than at any other time. And of course, it's necessary to have a large mug (preferably a pint) of hot tea afterwards. That's loose tea made in a tea pot, not bags....but then that's a whole other discussion!

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:19 AM

I shall be having ciabattas warmed in the Rayburn, with ham off the bone and piccalilli for my lunchtime 'Pieces'
G

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 07:15 AM

I decided I was that hungry after reading all this that I went for bacon AND sausage on ciabatta with mustard. Mmmmmmmm.

Should see me through till tea time:-)

D.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Blowzabella
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:37 AM

I love my bacon grilled nearly to a frazzle - so that it snaps .... my favourite maker of the butty being either stotty cake, floury rolls or those lovely Scottish morning rolls ... but also like ciabatta. Tomato ketchup for me, please.

I like to keep my egg butty separate from my bacon butty.

And, much as I adore smokey bacon, I find that it makes me have a raging thirst afterwards, which requires sooo much tea I am virtually confined to the loo afterwards ...so now stick to back bacon.

Sausage sarnies are wonderful too ... requiring copious amounts of english mustard, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 06:29 AM

Sausage is ok but it must be a lorne ye get two lornes tae a scottish loaf. ach noo ahm homesick.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:59 AM

Sorry forgot to add, I make my own bacon as I can't stand the average shop bought saline injected dead pig slices, nor can I afford the good dry cured stuff in shops.
Apart from my own bacon the best shop bought bacon I ever found was in Australia.
G.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:53 AM

Megan the transport cafe halfway up Shap was called The Jungle Caff, long gone I'm afraid, it has now become a caravan dealer's.
A bacon 'piece' made with toasted Scottish batch bread,this is a loaf with an open texture and with only a crust top and bottom, is a treat indeed. As is a piece made with an Aberdeen Buttery
But there's nothing on earth to beat one made with a crisp Scottish morning roll, substitute, or add, black pudding, and you are in nirvana.
A banjo is Indian Army slang for a sandwich, and I think derives from the Indian foodstuffs called Bhajees.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:37 AM

Ron, That looks like Irish bacon on the photo.

Is that Irish/Irish bacon or American/Irish bacon? The only bacon I know of that Ireland is famous for, certainly around the south west, is the big lump of salted pig that you have to boil for about a week!

Is this another case of the Americans thinking that anything good has to be Irish rather than English? Rather like the Irish albums that are full of English music;-)

But let's not start that discussion off again...

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:09 AM

Do they have butties on the porn channel WLD? I thought it would have been soixante oeufs.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:08 AM

who wants a strip of flaccid fat?


Thus goes my life motto.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 05:00 AM

Sorcha - you are talking about a culinary experience. These guys are talking mindless self gratification.


Its the difference between sex in DH Lawrence (running into a cathedral, with the sunlit streaming through your being....blah, blah, blah) and the porn channel.

thats the essential difference between sandwiches and butties.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:57 AM

Llanfair,youare so right. My daughter, when she was 14 or so, tried to go vegeterian for about 6 months. When I spotted her gobbling a bacon butty and enquired as to the sincerity of her resolve, she simply said that bacon doesn't count.

A good bacon butty should not become a banjo - i.e. it shouldn't drip, the fat should all be absorbed by the bread. If one has a soft fried egg with it, it's different of course, then banjo playing is an inevitability.

I wonder if our American friends have understood the significance of the term "banjo" in reference to runny butties.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Llanfair
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:44 AM

The one vital ingredient to all these recipes is the "I've worked really hard and I'm starving" one.
Bacon butties aren't snack food, they are a well deserved treat after hard work or a night on the town, a standard hangover cure.

Also the test of a TRUE vegetarian. Many a teenage wannabe vegan has fallen at this fence!!

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:44 AM

there's a shop just off Walsall market that only sells hot pork cobs. Gorgeous.

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:39 AM

Better to go to York for a pork sarnie - Bill Sables introduced me to them. A big slab of (relatively lean) pork in a bun. Good stuff.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: English Sandwich?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Jun 07 - 04:25 AM

Lovely as a bacon buttie is, I can't help thinking it's surpassed by the sausage buttie.

Discuss.