BS: How do you Bar-B-Que

Subject: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 03:47 PM

Just finished a Fourth of July cremation of sausages, chicken and a steak. The steak survived pretty well but the sausages crunched. Seamus rarely complains (Remember the Creamed Onions Incident) and was grateful for all the snacks tossed his way.

Any expert advice? Or shall I simply stick to burgers and hot dogs?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 03:48 PM

HA HA Jacqui. I beat you to it!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:11 PM

SINS - Its like Good Comedy - ALL a question of Timing ! And I am sure Seamus didnt mind at all !

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:14 PM

I wasn't going to say a thing - I'm all too aware of my own culinary disasters!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:28 PM

Sausages. The key is to boil them first. Cook them. Then, high rack, low heat and juuuuust brown them.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 04:28 PM

Gnu aced it in one.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 05:17 PM

That's not barbecue, folks--that's grilling. The former involves lengthy cooking at low temperatures (generally with smoke present), while the latter is cooking directly over a bed of coals or an open flame.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 05:18 PM

We've had long and heated (sorry about that!) discussions here at Mudcat about just what barbecue is. It sounds like you're talking about the prospect of grilling meat over coals or open flames. Is that correct? Are you also discussing the most important feature of it, the SAUCE?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 05:20 PM

It helps to poach or parboil the sausages in half beer. They keep more of their flavor. Do not puncture. Drop sausages in boiling water, and take out when the fat starts to liquify, says my B B Q cookbook (Four-five minutes). Then grill over medium low.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: curmudgeon
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM

For quick cooking meats, steaks, burgers, dogs, boiled sausages, boiled chicken, lay a bed of hot coals in the unit and broil accordingly.

For meats that require longer cooking times, put a foil pan in the middle of the lower rack, arrange hot coals on either side. Put the flesh over the drip pan and cook for a longer time.

I'll give you the full course at the David Jones house concert -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:21 PM

what about chicken?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: EBarnacle
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:34 PM

It sounds as though we are ready for the great sausage debate--to split or not to split. Not splitting them makes the sausage sweeter but all of that sweetness is from fat. Splitting them removes the fat and makes them a bit dryer. It also makes it easier to cook the sausage through without burning.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Bugsy
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 07:54 PM

is obviously a US BBQ thread, because in Australia the women are not allowed by law to be within 5 metres of a Barby plate.

My suggestion, hand Seamus the utensils and tell him "It's the man's job".

Now I'll duck for cover>

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:15 PM

Ahhhhhh, Sins, if you really want the real deal step over to tweedsblues and ask the question... Blues folks is serious about BBQ so ya' better bring heat with ya' but, hey...

Now I ain't gonna get into no food fight here 'bout BBQ other than to just make a couple comments... Good BBQ is cooked, not grilled... The you add yer sauces... Okay to baste a little with 'um but not smathering the crud outta the meat...

And, oh yeah, there's twe major styles of BBQ sauces... In North Carolina it's vinegar based and in Memphis, Tn, it's tomato based...

I run into a roadside BBQ, Pig Daddy (pigdaddysbbq.com) round Ruckersville, Va. and he has a sausce that I swaer is a combination of the two... I like Memphis and the P-Vine likes NC so we generally end up in a big food fight when it comes to BBQ but we both liked his sauce...

That's all I'm sayin'...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:17 PM

I don't think he has his testicles anymore, plus you might as well just let him gobble all the food. Jaccqui, you think you can train your dog how to BBQ?

Listen, Bugsy (my neigbor's Aussie Shepherd's name.), Those of us without menfolk handy have to make due. Luckily, SINSULL has pulled off a great male cook troll and curmudgeon has volunteered for the next house concert. Nice job, Mary!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:18 PM

That's not barbecue, folks--that's grilling.

That's exactly what barbeque is for folks in Oz, so it all depends on what neck of the woods you come from. We're happy to cremate any kind of dead animal - or even vegeburgers - on the gas BBQ. A lot of our BBQs come with hoods now, but ours is just a 4 burner with a hotplate and a grillplate.

I gather barbeque is something different in the US - or at least some parts of it - more the way Dick describes.

Our barbeques at Earlwood are a bit famous around here actually. We have BBQs and sessions with lots of people. We've had a few visiting Mudcatters here from time to time too. We even had a comet party in January. We 'arranged' to have Comet McNaught appear so folks could watch it from the backyard. That's going to be rather hard to top!

I'll be interested to find out more about what other folks do. What about the UK? What is your definition of barbeque?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:23 PM

Bobert is correct--you put a little sauce on the meat to start the flavor and pick up a little smoke and keep it moist if the meat is lean, but adding it to the plate with the meat is best. I like a nice sliced brisket sandwich with sauce, onion, and pickles. If it doesn't have sauce, it is grilled, not barbecue.

(Ducks and runs for cover)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:25 PM

Favorite BBQ sauce: 'Texas Best'. I can't find it around here anymore - WAAAA!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: JennyO
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 08:50 PM

Bugsy, I know it's traditional in Oz for the menfolk to gather round the barbie and sink a tinny or two, but it doesn't always happen that way here. My brother likes being the cook, but seeing as he is only visiting from France on average once every 5 years, he doesn't get the opportunity too often. By the way, he had to really hunt around to find a BBQ for his place in Paris. Gas BBQs are not very common over there.

When we have great bunches of people, which is the norm at our barbeques, everybody cooks their own so that it's done the way they like it. In fact in general, John always lets me cook the meat for any meal because I like it a lot more rare than he does. He usually does veges and salads. Works for us!

I like the idea of the sauces. We sometimes marinate our meat before we cook it, but there is always the ubiquitous tomato sauce and barbeque sauce on the table for people to put on their snags (sausages), and I usually cook a big pot of whole potatoes to go with the meat. People bring salads and dessert things to share.

As well as meat, chicken, sausages and vegeburgers, sometimes we might cook a piece of fish with herbs/butter or whatever wrapped in foil, usually onion rings, sometimes veges like peppers, eggplant - anything you can think of really.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 09:43 PM

What's this "upper rack" an' "lower rack" stuff? Listen, this is how real country people grill or barbecue or whatever ya wanna call it:

Take a shovel an' dig a little hole. Situate three or four bricks on end around th' perimeter of th' hole. Put some sticks in th' hole an' set 'em on fire. When th' sticks ain't burnin' a whole lot any more, stick a ol' regrigerator shelf or somethin' on top of th' bricks t' keep th' meat outta th' fire. Put th' meat on it an' go play banjo fer a while. Come back an' stick th' meat with a fork ever now an' then. When th' meat don't bleed no more, eat it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:38 PM

Ugh!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Janie
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:41 PM

Here in the south (USA) bar-b-que is cooked on a grill, or in a pit, but it always involves a tomato or vinegar-based sauce. the meat may be marinated in the sauce, basted with the sauce, or both. but it is the use of bar b que sauce that makes it a bar-b-que (ever been to a pig-pickin;?) Without the bar-b-que sauce, it is grilling.

Here in the southern part of heaven (North Carolina Piedmont) pulled pork bbq is king. At it's best it is tart and sassy, tender and moist, but not wet. At cook-offs and festival fundraisers, it is definitely a male ritual. The guys stay up all night, tending the pit or the smoker, drinking (if allowed) and telling yarns.

My California cousins, damn Yankees like that transplant Mainiac, Sinsull, and other poor souls who can't be blamed for the accident of having been born elsewhere, call the act of cooking anything on an outdoor grill bar-b-queing. Hell, they even call the damn grill a bar-b-que.

Lord, they no not what they do. Please forgive them their sins.

Janie:^)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Jul 07 - 11:51 PM

I know what good Bar-B-Que is and love it. That said a Bar-B-Que in Maine involves cooking meat over charcoal or on a gas grill. When motivated, I cook a steak or a hamburger for myself but I have never been enamored of sweating profusely and singing my eyelashes to produce something better left in an oven.
But now that Tom has offered, all Bar-B-Queing chores will be left in his manly hands at the lobster boil.
heh heh

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: mrdux
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:25 AM

Jeri --

Texas Best had been my favorite too. BUT.... it was bought up by Marzetti's a couple years ago and they even changed the recipe (upping the high-fructose corn syrup). Marzetti's recently (last fall) announced that Texas Best will no longer be made -- when the stores run out, that's it. My stores just did, and I'm down to my last half-bottle. I just read, however, that it will be available again in the future: the family that started Texas Best over 30 years ago is planning on bringing it back. You can email them at [e-mail] for an update.

michael

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:42 AM

Georgia barbeque, pit or grilled pork, cooked very slow and smoked over hardwood, always used a mustard-based sauce. My wife (a Georgian) says tomato-based sauce is Yankee, but she says that about a lot of food she doen't like.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 01:56 AM

Janie, I was hoping someone would come along and describe that North Carolina version. I read a great essay years ago that described the differences around the U.S. We get that "pulled" sort (here it is called chopped brisket and it has sauce mixed into the meat. This is served on a bun as a sandwich. Tasty!)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 09:53 AM

We don't BBQ in Ireland as the rain drowns the food.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: goatfell
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 10:06 AM

don't burn food, and just cook what you can, unlike they do in Australia, it's always the men that hang around bbq's and yet it's the women that do all the work. I'm from Scotland and we have BBQ's as well but not very often

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: GUEST,Braai man
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 10:15 AM

Come to South Africa to see how it's done properly!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Bee
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:41 AM

We keep the enormous (new one this summer: they get bigger every time the Man gets a new one) propane barbecue thing on the deck, and use it rain or shine all summer to cook almost all meat. We seldom parboil, except for chicken bits. The thing has a rotissary grilling flamer on the back, so we do roasts and chickens on it as well.

Every time I light it I expect it to blow up - I've never been comfortable with propane.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: curmudgeon
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:23 PM

First, to clear up any misconceptions, I offered tuition not servitude. However, if you want to do a real barbecue with the lobster boil, I will assist in the preparation, but I won't do grilling.

Some other observations. As Dick said, you can't barbecue with a gas grill. They're only glroified outdoor gas stoves. But it can be done with a charcoal grill.

The day or at least the night before you're going to cook, prepare a blend of peppers, herbs and spices and rub it thoroughly into the piece of flesh to be cooked. Wrap it all up and refigerate it for at least 12 hours.

Next day, an hour before starting the fire, throw a couple of h andsful of wood chips into a bucket of water. Light the charcaol, about 36 briquets   . When glowing and gray, put half on either side of a rectangular foil pan, the bottom of which should have a small quantity of liquid - water, beer, wine, cider. This helps to keep the meat from drying out.. Drain the wood chips and toss some on top of th coals. Center the meat over the drip pan and put the cover on. Aside from adding anothe dozen hot coals and more wood chips evry hour, leave it alone till its cooked - 4 - 5 hours for whole chickens, 5 to 6 hours for beef and pork. If you must add sauce, do so only for the last half hour of cooking as it will otherwise burn. Better to put sauce on the cooked and cut/shredded meat.

I have a sauce recipe that uses both the vinegar and tomato base, but I'd like to know more about that mustard based one -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:43 PM

Like curmudgeon, both rub and sauce are important. Recipes coming.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:47 PM

Anyone else ever tried to barbeque a nut and rice rissole?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 12:50 PM

I haven't heard of them being Bar-B-que'd; but I have known them to to grilled.

Nut and rice loaf; actually, sliced and grilled.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 01:34 PM

There are as many recipes for sauces and rubs as there are people who make their own, but the recipes for rub and sauce at this site are good, and are a base from which to vary. (Some insist on using dry Keen's Mustard rather than prepared. More 'pepper' is used than I like, but my tolerance is low).
The pork is cooked on a closed barbecue, very slow, 225-250 F, hardwood-smoked. The recipe gives a detailed explanation with pictures.

http://southchild.com/?p=415
Pork Barbecue

The following is an all-purpose recipe from "White Trash Cooking":

BOSIE'S BARBECUE SAUCE

1/2 cup brown sugar
2 lemons
1 cup vinegar*
3 cloves garlic
1 tablespoons ketchup
3 tablespoons prepared mustard
1 large onion, chopped
3 strips bacon
2 tablespoons Worcester Sauce (optional)
1 cup water
Pepper, to taste
1/2 teaspoon salt
1 dash liquid smoke (optional)

* Use a wine vinegar.
Fry bacon until deep gold. Add onions and finish frying until they start getting brown. Add garlic and everything elso in the recipe and bring to a boil. Turn fire down and simmer until sauce thickens.
Use on any meat for barbecueing.
Rub meat all over with brown sugar, salt and pepper.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 02:36 PM

So Tom has crapped out of Bar-B-Queing at the lobster boil. heh heh

There will be a grill, hot dog, burgers, and steaks. Cook your own.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:16 PM

And of course one can wrap almost anything in foil (add a little moisture) and toss it on the barbie. (Which is a grill.)

That rice loaf-- chill first and pack tight. But polenta, chili mac..... try it as is or try it in foil.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: curmudgeon
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 03:41 PM

Thanks, Q! That's precisely the recipe I've been looking for -- Tom

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:47 PM

Stupid question, I am sure, but how do you keep a charcoal fire at 225-250 degrees?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: curmudgeon
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:57 PM

The charcoal itself will be much hotter, but by using the indirect method, as explained and illustrated, the heat in the unit will maintain a lower temperature, allowing for long slow cooking - Tom

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 05:32 PM

SINSULL, the pictures at that site are good- as well as the recipes. Lotsa other recipes there, some very good, but the organization by date is cumbersome.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 11:14 PM

Sins -- is there a date for the great Lobster Bake yet? It will be good to see folks at David Jones's concert -- it feels like a long time since singing.......

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: EBarnacle
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:01 PM

Janie, DamYankee is one word.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:11 PM

EBarnacle- incorrect spelling!! damyankee. Never capitalized.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:35 PM

The Southchild description of low-temperature barbecuing also applies to some fish grilling. Salmon are often grilled on an oiled grill, marinated, the coals raked to each side of the barbecue as shown and very slow cooking proceeds at medium to low heat with the lid closed, perhaps 20-30 minutes- Nothing worse than overcooked fish!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Deckman
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:35 PM

Silly Stilly ... I've always found that copius amounts of vodka helps. NOT FOR THE COOK, you understand, but for the hungry guests! Bob

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:52 PM

In Greece, barbecues are mainly over charcoal, ideally adding some vine branches too for flavour.
My impression is that in the US, barbecuing is all about sauces - to a Greek that is suspicious, the meat shout taste good without any sauce to cover the flavours.
In Australia, now there they know how to do things. When I first visited my son there, after he emigrated, he suggested a barbie but apologised because "he only had a small one"; it was the size of Albert Hall! And he's really learned to barbecue all kinds of meat well, hat off to him. It seems to me that in Australia barbecue is all about the meat. And that's how it should be.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:56 PM

Mrdux, thanks for the information on Texas Best. I found the sauce on-line, but I would have been disappointed if I bought it and it tasted like everything else. I liked it because it was tangy and smoky, not sweet. There are sweet sauces that are ok, but the old Texas Best was out of this world.

However, I thought I'd died and gone to heaven (with my taste buds intact) when I tasted a pulled pork sammich from Mr Sippy. Cecil (Mr Sippy) is a really good bluegrass musician, too!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:35 PM

Put a bee on the bar and then take your pool cue and...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 09:30 PM

This afternoon a barbecue fire on a balcony set an apartment-condo building afire about four blocks from me. 110 people now without a home. Seems to occur often.

Barbecues on balconies of buildings housing more than one family should be banned.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:39 PM

I'll make the point again, for the hard of hearing. Barbecue is not about sauce. It is about slow cooking, in an enclosed vessel, using indirect heat. Grilling is not barbecuing. Mr. P's impression is completely incorrect--sauce is not what it's all about.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 01:56 AM

Actually, I don't barbeque. Or BBQ, or Bar -B-Que or any other permutation of the spelling, initials or general concept. If I want my food black on the outside and raw in the middle, I'll do it in the comfort of my own oven!

(N.B. family and visitors - when it's black on the outside and cooked in the middle, it's done to an old Dorset recipe. When it's black all the way through, it's Cajun . Any complaints, you know where the chip shop is).


LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:19 AM

It clearly all depends on yer accent (y'all).

Tom (curmudgeon), I believe I am ready to make you an honorary southerner.

Dread confession. I'm not too terribly fond of BBQ, in any of it's permeations.

I like good cuts of meat, quickly charred on the grill or in the skillet.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:38 AM

I like not having food poisoning in any form!!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:41 AM

M.Ted, I agree it's not about the sauce, I just think many N.Americans believe it is; at least, BBQ conversations in the US always seem to circle around the subject of sauces or marinades.

As for the slow cooking, I'll beg to differ. If it was about enclosed vessels and indirect heat, then there would be some sort of saucepan referred to as "the BBQ", and not the charcoal- or gas-burning contraptions we love to fight with.

No, I think (just an opinion, mind you) that the slow cooking before (or instead of) grilling on an open fire is a shortcut, a way around the problem, for those who find it difficult to cook on an open fire without burning the outside while leaving the inside raw (and let's face it, that's most of us). Me, I can do you a crisp-and-pink sausage in a flash. Literally :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:16 AM

George - "crisp-and-pink sausage in a flash".

Don't stand so close to the flame - that way your 'sausage' will remain uncrisped.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:25 AM

Saveloy if you please, Liz!
(or mini frankfurter on a cold day...)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:30 AM

THINKS: Shall I call his bluff and ask him to prove it?

I've never liked saveloys.... too floppy and covered in plastic.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:23 AM

Reminds me of the recent video I say of some rocket scientists speeding up the ignition of the coals with liquid oxygen. The whole apparatus went off into orbit!

Now here in Maine we also have the Lobster/Clam bake which is not exactly a BBQ but shares some elements. The way we used to do it (don't try this on your condominium balcony) is to pile up a heap of driftwood on a beach, light it up, and then toss stones in (beaches in Maine usually have easy access to stones); then we lay on seaweed, lobsters, clams, and corn, another layer of seaweed, and cover the whole thing with an old canvas tarp (don't try this with a plastic tarp), and drink cheap beer for 20 minutes or so. Everything should be nicely cooked and smoky by then. If not, there is always more cheap beer!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 06:03 PM

Why did you have to bring that up, Charlie? Dear God, I would dearly love a clambake right about now. Nothing in the world like it( especially not where I live)--

I think George, with all due respect, that you may not be familiar with the culture of Barbecue. Here is a nice page about North Carolina Barbecue, but be aware that there are other, contradictory opinions, from other places. Making Barbecue in the Backyard

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:47 PM

M. Ted-

I don't think I've done what I'd call a "real one" (lobster/clambake) in forty years but I'd be willing to give it a try! My favorite memory is one I and my friends did on an island in the Sheepscot River to commemorate our graduation. We even tossed a burning log into the river. And we drank much too much beer. Then the fog closed in and I had to demonstrate my ability to navigate back across the river. I stuck one of the fellers in the bow with a bag of rocks with instructions to throw them out up ahead. As long as they went KERPLUNK! we was all right. If one went CLUNK! we need to slow down and re-evaluate. Kendall is said to use potatoes instead of rocks. We did make it back across the river safely, although in a parallel universe we're still probably marooned on that island.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 08:18 PM

M Ted, thanks for the NC barbecue pit plans and recipes. Makes a nice complement to the Georgia method I linked.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 08:42 AM

slow cooking with the right smoke and marinade is the best there is.
A master can make ribs you can practicly drink (except the bones)

and yes, grilling is not barbecue and grilling is no insurance against food poisoning.

grilling at high temp will make cancer causing nitrosomines.
The meat gets red purple when this happens.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 04:55 PM

Ribs! A whole thread or two could be written about them.
One of my sons does a good job- he has a good marinade I will have to copy.
Seems to be some confusion about the word grill. Many call the rack in their barbecue a grill, and they are correct. Webster's Collegiate- 1. "a cooking utensil of parallel bars on which food is exposed to heat (as from charcoal or electricity).

Others use the word to mean broiling- usu. on a grill- also correct: 2. "food that is broiled...."

Donuel, too many serve nitrosamines, broiling rapidly at high temperature. The odor from their barbecues is a warning to stick to the potato salad and bread and plead that vegetarianism prevents you from sampling their cremations.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: ranger1
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 09:12 AM

OK, as a born-and-bred native northern New Englander, let me point out that we do not have "barbeques", we have "cook outs" here in New England. Does that make you Southerners happy now? I like a good cook out, I like good barbeque, but thay are by no means the same thing. And St. Louis style is very nice...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: bobad
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 10:14 AM

A good rib recipe if you like them not too sweet. I cut way back on the salt for the dry rub.

Abe & Roscoe's Baby Pork Ribs

4 racks baby back ribs

For the dry rub:
1/4 cup (50 mL) salt
1/4 cup (50 mL) granulated sugar
2 tablespoons (25 mL) paprika
1 tablespoon (15 mU garlic powder
2 tablespoons (25 mL) black pepper

For the marinade:
2 bottles beer
2 tablespoons (25 ml) Worcestershire sauce
2 tablespoons (25 mL) cracked peppercorns
2 tablespoons (25 mL) chopped garlic
1/4 cup (50 ml) canola oil
1/2 tablespoon (7 mL) hot sauce

For the barbecue sauce:
1 teaspoon (5 mL) ground cinnamon
1 teaspoon (5 mL) ground black pepper
11/2 tablespoons (22 mL) paprika
1 teaspoon (5 mL) dried oregano
1 teaspoon (5 mL) hot sauce
1 cup (250 mL) white vinegar
1 cup (250 mL) ketchup
1/2 cup (125 mL) tomato sauce
1/2 cup (125 mL) beer
1 cup (250 mL) molasses

1. Combine all ingredients for the dry rub and rub into the ribs. Place them in a baking pan; cover and refrigerate 2 hours.
2. Combine all marinade ingredients and pour over the ribs.
Place the baking pan on the stovetop and bring to boil, then cover the pan with aluminum foil and bake in oven at 350°F (180°C) for 3 to 4 hours
until ribs tear apart easily.
3. Make the barbecue sauce by combining all sauce ingredients in a saucepan; simmer 30 minutes.
Cool. Brush the sauce over the ribs and finish the meat on a medium-hot barbecue for 10 to 15 minutes until ribs have caramelized on all sides.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 02:15 PM

With all due respect, that's not barbecuing.

You can get the same or better effect if you marinate the ribs for at least a day in the fridge, then parboil them, apply the rub, and then put them on the barbecue grill to finish. If you feel that you must, put the sauce on shortly before you pull them off the grill. Sensible persons will apply a finished sauce on the ribs after it comes off the grill--

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: MMario
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 02:21 PM

Foreget about two countries diveided by a common language; it is obvious that "Barbeque" has vastly different meanings even within ONE country.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 02:29 PM

Ive found oyster sauce to be the best bbq sauce.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 03:20 PM

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: JennyO
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:33 AM

Absolutely, MMario. I've been following this thread for a while and noticing, amongst all the yummy sauce and marinade recipes, a slightly sour note. At one stage I attempted to contribute to this thread, but there are some here who insist on saying that their definition of Bar-B-Que is the only right one, and that what we are doing in Oz is grilling.

I said I was interested to find out more about what other folks do and what they call Bar-B-Que where they are. Fine if you come on and say "this is what we call Bar-B-Que here." Not so fine if you insist you are right and others are wrong.

For those people, YOU might call what we do grilling, but WE call it Bar-B-Que, okay? We aren't wrong, just different.

Right, that's my rant for the day.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Escamillo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:46 AM

Every Argentinean man is supposed to know how to cook a perfect BBQ (we call it ASADO) since we are one of the main exporters and devourators of quality beef and many classes of meat.

First of all, please NO german-type sausages. They were not created for the BBQ. First of all too, NO flames. Heat cooks the meat, not incandescent gases. Also first of all, NEVER an open grid of steel wires or round bars, but an arrangement of steel bars with sections in "V", separated 1 cm, so the heat reaches the beef and the liquid fat flows through them towards an appropiate container, without touching the food again.

And first of all, fire should be initiated appart, and pieces of lit charcoal (or better slightly aromatic hard wood) be transported to the main bed. The quantity of embers on the bed will give the correct temperature, then you will add more coal as necessary. The BBQ must have a mechanism, or a simple trick should be used to increase or decrease the distance between the meat and the embers. A strong heatening for a few minutes will SEAL the meat which will cook in ITS OWN JUICE when the heat is reduced.

A slow and low-temperature procees will render a beef that will appear as boiled, and a consistence of rubber. The art of the cook is to not burn it and not boil it.

I adhere to Curmudgeon´s recipe of marinating the meat as you like it (nothing sweet, please) but a couple of hours is enough.

The Argentinean gaucho likes to throw the pieces of beef with all its fat, because they like the fat taste. I don´t like it. I take the fat out, and always marinate the meat with olive oil, spices and herbs, closer to the Caribbean taste. Not too much, because good beef will lose its flavour under heavy spicing.

And first of all, BBQ is not a candy. Avoid sweet sauces and artificial smoke flavours.

Don´t allow your food being attacked by flames. Black stains are toxic. The external colour of the beef should be dark brown, and as you cut it with a knife, a lot of water-like rose juice should flow, but the beef should never be red inside.

Spanish-style spiced sausages (CHORIZO)are the best companion for the BBQed beef. I prefer them low-fat, and heavily punctuated to get rid of excess fat.

The other best companion is a fine RED WINE. Beer is not bad in hot climates, but the real thing is wine. And fresh, slightly heated crunchy french bread (not the foamy hot-dog bread that comes in plastic bags).

After this BBQ you will be able to tame a horse, or make other unusual achievements.

Un abrazo
Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:16 AM

Ranger1 presented as a New Englander and tried to say New Englanders don't have barbecues. Well, these days I'm also a New Englander. Different hemisphere but we DO hae barbecues. Some Ozcatters (and those familiar with Oz culture) have made comments about maleness and barbecues here. The following yarn (which crossed my desk about six years ago) might explain some aspects of Oz maleness and barbecues.

The Tong Master...

Jeff was at the barbecue and Joel was at the barbecue and I was at the barbecue; three men standing around a barbecue, sipping beer, staring at sausages, rolling them backwards and forwards, never leaving them alone.

We didn't know why we were at the barbecue; we were just drawn there like moths to a flame. The barbecue was a powerful gravitational force, a man-magnet. Joel said "The thin ones could use a turn"; I said "Yeah I reckon the thin ones could use a turn"; Jeff said "Yeah they really need a turn". It was a unanimous turning decision.

Jeff was the Tong-Master, a true artist, he gave a couple of practice snaps of his long silver tongs, SNAP SNAP, before moving in, prodding, teasing, and with an elegant flick of his wrist, rolling them onto their little backs. A lesser tong-man would've flicked too hard; the sausages would've gone full circle, back to where they started. "Nice", I said. The others went yeah.

Kevin was passing us, he heard the sizzle-siren-song of the snags, the barbecue was calling, beckoning, "Kevinnnnn ...come". He stuck his head in and said "any room?" We said yeah and began the barbecue shuffle; Jeff shuffled to the left, Joel shuffled to the left, I shuffled to the left, Kevin slipped in beside me, we sipped our beer.

Now there were four of us staring at sausages, and Jeff gave me the nod, my cue. I was second-in-command, and I had to take the raw sausages out of the plastic bag and lay them on the barbecue; not too close together, not too far apart, curl them into each other's bodies like lovers -fat ones, thin ones, herbed and continental. The chipolatas were tiny, they could easily slip down between the grill, falling into the molten hot-bead-netherworld below. Carefully I laid them sideways ACROSS the grill, clever thinking. Jeff snapped his tongs with approval; there was no greater barbecue honour.

P.J. came along, he said "looking good, looking good", the irresistible lure of the barbecue had pulled him in too. We said yeah and did the shuffle, left, left, left, left, he slipped in beside Kevin, we sipped our beer. Five men, lots of sausages. Joel was the Fork-pronger; he had the fork that pronged the tough hides of the Bavarian bratwursts and he showed a lot of promise. Stabbing away eagerly, leaving perfect little vampire holes up and down the casing.

P.J. was shaking his head, he said "I reckon they cook better if you don't poke them". There was a long silence, you could have heard a chipolata drop. This newcomer was a rabble-rouser, bringing in his crazy ideas from outside. He didn't understand the hierarchy; first the Tong-master, then the Sausage-layer, then the Fork-pronger, and everyone below was just a watcher. Maybe eventually they'll move up the ladder, but for now - don't rock the Weber!

Dianne popped her head in; "hmmm, smells good", she said. She was trying to jostle into the circle; we closed ranks, pulling our heads down and our shoulders in, mumbling yeah yeah yeah, but making no room for her. She was keen, going round to the far side of the barbecue, heading for the only available space . . . the gap in the circle where all the smoke and ashes blew. Nobody could survive the gap; Dianne was going to try. She stood there stubbornly, smoke blinding her eyes, ashes filling her nostrils, sausage fat spattering all over her arms and face. Until she couldn't take it anymore, she gave up, backed off.

Kevin waited till she was gone and sipped his beer. We sipped our beer, yeah. Jeff handed me his tongs. I looked at him and he nodded. I knew what was happening, I'd waited a long time for this moment - the abdication. The tongs weighed heavy in my hands, firm in my grip - was I ready for the responsibility? Yes, I was. I held them up high and they glinted in the sun. "Don't forget to turn the thin ones" Jeff said as he walked away from the barbecue, disappearing toward the house. "Yeah" I called back, "I will, I will". I snapped them twice, SNAP SNAP, before moving in, prodding, teasing, and with an elegant flick of my wrist, rolling them back onto their little bellies. I was a natural, I was the TONG-MASTER. But only until Jeff got back from the toilet.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: GUEST,Braai man
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:18 AM

Q
Are you the same 'Q' as on the 'mustard board' web site?
BM

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:31 PM

Not only does the definition of barbecue change with locality, but so does the definition of "Yankee".

Those of you outside the United States use it to refer to all of us. Most of those inside the United States use the word to refer to those who live in the northern half of the country. Some of those in the US use it to refer to residents of New England states -- the northeast of the country (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and Connecticut). Some of those in New England don't consider residents of Connecticut or Rhode Island to be Yankees. And I'm sure there are some residents of Maine who think they're the ONLY Yankees!

That baseball team from New York has no claim to the name -- the Boston Red Sox are more Yankee than they are (if the players were actually FROM Massachusetts!)

Gee, this ought to stir up as much controversey and opinions as barbecue does!

Linn (sitting back to watch the fun -- wish I had some of Mr. Sippy's pulled pork BBQ right now -- or Curmudgeon's)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: MMario
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:52 PM

BatGoddess - for even more fun start a discussion of "What constitutes Clam Chowder"

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:08 PM

Thanks, Escamilio, a welcome addition. Not the same as Georgia-North Carolina barbecue, which involves the slow cooking of pork, but beef barbecue, which is quite different.

Rowan, a good story.


mustard board? no comprende.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:22 PM

There are many possible origins for the term "Yankee", most, if not all, are connected to the Dutch Wordorigin on the word "Yankee". Given that the Dutch preferred New York to Boston, I'd say that New York can claim the word on the basis of primacy--

As to Escamillo's essay on the Argentinian grilling, and Rowan's tongue in cheek commentary-- it is interesting, if not amusing that, whereas most men will not deign to lift so much as a napkin in the kitchen proper, the barbecue/grill (or whatever) is regarded as iconic male territory--

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:39 PM

JennyO, you and I cross-posted a while back--I wasn't arguing with you about what you call the thing that holds the coals, I was agreeing with Bobert as we took sides in this discussion re what other North Americans were calling barbecue. (Your post hadn't shown up yet when I started mine, and I think the timestamp on them comes from when you start writing, not when you hit send. I sometimes take a while to get around to sending these posts).

I don't want to be chased around the grill or barbecue or bar-b-que or whatever it happens to be called if I ever eventually get to travel off of this continent and visit Oz. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:29 PM

Isn't the real question not "how" but "why"?

At least in the case of the general run of English "barbecues" - half raw half burnt hamburgers and sausages cooked by someone who doesn't know how to cook, using a contraption that fills the garden with evil-smelling, and probably very unhealthy smoke. Everyone lurches round the place with their burnt offerings, nowhere to sit, no tables for the food and drink...

The French do it better - cook the food in the kitchen and carry it out to tables with bottles, with chairs to sit on.

Or have a picnic with food prepared to be eaten cold.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:08 PM

McGrath, that describes 95% of so-called barbecue in North America and Upside-down-land as well- nitrosomines on a bun- but the remaining 5% can be excellent.

The burnt cooking gene resulted from a mutation in the British Isles and spread across the seas as the inhabitants migrated anywhere elsewhere looking for edible cooking. When they found it, the gene also worked to prevent its adoption.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: Rowan
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:28 PM

M.Ted, someone in Oz a few years ago did an academic piece on the fact that, since the 50s, the outside dunnies gradually moved inside and the cooking facilities gradually moved in the opposite direction. And it was also commented on that (stereotypically), while women ruled in the kitchen (males being happy to let them do so) males ruled the outside cooking; most outside cooking was of "meat" (none of this vegetable stuff), which also fitted into the stereotype.

And when I was in SC (US) I was introduced to the notion that populations could (and were, by academics) sorted into social, economic and geographic regions demographically, just by the sauce/s they did or didn't use when barbecuing. To an innocent from Oz the range of sauce possibilities was a real eye opener.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: M.Ted
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 01:36 AM

I think academics were probably the last ones to catch on to the barbecue borders thing--though it doesn't hold now, partly because Americans move around so much, and partly because of years of cooking shows, cooking classes, newspaper articles, and voluminous books, and syncretic cooking schools.

I have to disagree with our dear Kevin on the French--the men grill tenaciously outdoors, and are smuggly proscriptive about it--

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: JennyO
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:13 AM

SRS - PM sent.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Bar-B-Que
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 08:42 AM

My local minister had a line he would use at church social BBQs,,,

"For this BBBQ, We thank Thee Lord, with burnt offerings and whole burnt offerings"... :-)