trad singers and their treatment by folk revival

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: peregrina
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 05:17 AM

Guest Is:
The song about Dillard Chandler is called 'Dillard Chandler'; it was played on Mike Harding's show about three weeks ago, but the playlist is no longer posted and I couldn't find the details in a few minutes on google. However, I think that the song was written by Dick Connette.
I agree with you entirely that the film is problematic. Certainly. All the same, it gives glimpses of that world and a context for song that enlarged my understanding even if some aspects of the presentation might be troubling.

Cap'n: Yes, of course you are right about the topic of the thread. I'm guilty of not always scrolling back to the first message and relying on the thread title...

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: GUEST,IS
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 04:46 AM

PS - Peregrina, what is the song about Dillard called?

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 04:45 AM

yes, there is exchange.
But the thread was started by me in response to a statement by JimCarroll,about the mistreatment of traditional singers by the British folk revival.
Jim Carroll has yet to produce any evidence that more than a tiny proportion of tradional singers were poorly treated by the British folk revival.
if we start talking about the american folk revival on this thread it only muddies the waters.
Iam asking for evidence of poor treatment of traditional singers by the British folk revival.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: GUEST,IS
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 04:44 AM

I don't think John Cohen's film about Dillard Chandler is entirely unproblematic, however. It could be said to romanticise the notion of Chandler's "hardscrabble, tough livin'" mountain existence, equating it with some notion of 'authenticity'.

It reminds me of those photos of Jean Ritchie with Elizabeth Cronin in the early fifties - sitting in the little old woman's woman's old-fashioned kitchen in remotest Ireland, etc...

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: peregrina
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:58 PM

What's relevant? I thought that the British and American revivals were connected in intriguing ways: Alan Lomax (his essay on american revival, skiffle and the British revival in that book land where the blues began) , Shirley Collins (America across the Water--her rejoinder to Lomax, with lots on their collecting trip); Peggy Seeger coming to England after growing up with parents interested in the old singers and being made to transcribe their stuff as a child)--I think there was lots of exchange...

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: GUEST,guest collector
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:53 PM

Yes ,but irrelevant to the Britsh folk revival.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: peregrina
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

John Cohen made a short movie about traditional Appalachian ballad singer Dillard Chandler (DVD of it it comes free now with SFolkways CD Dark Holler). Pretty moving and fascinating. A picture of his world and him and others singing.

Then some person (can't remember who, maybe a revival singer) came along and made a song about Dillard, using his very words, like how he didn't have a mailbox. The song isn't making fun of him, it is poignant and honest, but it is making him a curiosity.

In the past year I've heard that song on Mike Harding, on Late Junction, at a folk festival... and how often has anyone played Dillard himself singing on the radio? Not that I've heard. So: a traditional singer turned into a song. Hmm.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: GUEST,IS
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:28 PM

The Singers DO come out of the same box as Bob Dylan. He knew the Box as they did.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: GUEST,captain birdseye
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:02 PM

oh well, silence ,,so that must mean, that they were, overall treated well.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 07:18 PM

Interesting thread.

Carry on. You are beginning to stir old memories.

I remember traditional singers being put in difficult positions - everybody thought they came out of the same box as Bob Dylan. I think maybe we were all a little naive back then.

The old blues singers and the like from the USA didn't seem to have the same trauma - but most of them had been pro musicians - at some point in their lives.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: GUEST,countrylife
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 01:52 PM

looks like Son of The Folk Revival to me

*cue* The Morris On Band

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: Vin2
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 08:43 AM

....Trousered Philanthropists?

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 08:11 AM

James Yorkston is part of the Fence Collective and will be playing the Union Chapel next week, with or without the other Athletes I know not.

This would be more suited to a thread called How Revivalists Treat The Ragged.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: Vin2
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 07:50 AM

Life; The origins of the universe; simultaneous equations; why poeple watch big brother; man/woman's inhumanity to each other; Politics; Good grief there's so much..........

P.s recently been given a coupla cd's of James Yorkston who i had never heard before - brill singer/musician methinks. Anyone else like im?

Pps..Very sad about George Melly. Only saw him live (in Oldham) once to my eternal shame, but he was a great character and artist, RIP.

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:55 AM

Good grief.

It's an attempt to assess how trad musicians were (or alleged to have been) treated by certain revivalists.

What's hard to understand?

Subject: RE: trad singers and their treatment by folk revival
From: Vin2
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:48 AM

Scuse me for being a bit slow (or maybe thick in't y'ed) but i don't quite understand why there is this argument (discussion) goin on. Surely, without traditional singers, either those who sing trad songs or songs in a traditional way, how could there be a folk revival. If trad singers aren't a part of the 'British folk revival' then who/what is this strange body called the 'British folk revival'??

Subject: trditionalsingersandtheir treatment by t
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 04:11 AM

Traditional singers and their treatment by the British folk revival.
My overall experience has been that the vast majority of traditional singers have been treated well by the British folk revival,probably the same as revival singers.
Ihave been treated badly by a folk festival organiser only once,when I was told by the organiser,that the festival couldnt pay my expenses,as they hadnt done very well,this festival continued for 27 years and is still running.
on an earlier post someone mentioned the insensitive treatment of Harry Cox,that the club Organiser allowed,Members of the audience to place tape recorders,which obviously upset Harry,and the organiser is supposed to have said oh its only old Harry.
as I can think of at least twenty traditional singers that I knew personally or were involved in booking, who were clearly getting pleasure from performing within the revival,I am concluding that Harrys treatment was part of a very small minority of inappropriate and shoddy treatment.