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BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time

Wesley S 06 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM
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Subject: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM

This is not my list. According to the American Film Institute - www.afi.com - these are the 100 greatest movies of all time. Why some movies made and other didn't - you'll need to ask AFI about that. I've seen a large portion of these movies and I can see why most of them are listed here.

One of the women in my office looked at the list and counted 49 that she owned on DVD already. I think that's a bit exessive. I only own 22.

These list are only intended as fun. Great is in the eye of the movie watcher. But i thought it might be worth some discussion.




1
CITIZEN KANE
2
THE GODFATHER
3
CASABLANCA
4
RAGING BULL
5
SINGIN' IN THE RAIN
6
GONE WITH THE WIND
7
LAWRENCE OF ARABIA
8
SCHINDLER'S LIST
9
VERTIGO
10
WIZARD OF OZ, THE
11
CITY LIGHTS
12
SEARCHERS, THE
13
STAR WARS
14
PSYCHO
15
2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY
16
SUNSET BLVD.
17
GRADUATE, THE
18
GENERAL, THE
19
ON THE WATERFRONT
20
IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE
21
CHINATOWN
22
SOME LIKE IT HOT
23
GRAPES OF WRATH, THE
24
E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL
25
TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD
26
MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON
27
HIGH NOON
28
ALL ABOUT EVE
29
DOUBLE INDEMNITY
30
APOCALYPSE NOW
31
MALTESE FALCON, THE
32
GODFATHER PART II, THE
33
ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO'S NEST
34
SNOW WHITE AND THE SEVEN DWARFS
35
ANNIE HALL
36
BRIDGE ON THE RIVER KWAI, THE
37
BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES, THE
38
TREASURE OF THE SIERRA MADRE, THE
39
DR. STRANGELOVE
40
SOUND OF MUSIC, THE
41
KING KONG
42
BONNIE AND CLYDE
43
MIDNIGHT COWBOY
44
PHILADELPHIA STORY, THE
45
SHANE
46
IT HAPPENED ONE NIGHT
47
STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE, A
48
REAR WINDOW
49
INTOLERANCE
50
LORD OF THE RINGS: THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING, THE
51
WEST SIDE STORY
52
TAXI DRIVER
53
DEER HUNTER, THE
54
M*A*S*H
55
NORTH BY NORTHWEST
56
JAWS
57
ROCKY
58
GOLD RUSH, THE
59
NASHVILLE
60
DUCK SOUP
61
SULLIVAN'S TRAVELS
62
AMERICAN GRAFFITI
63
CABARET
64
NETWORK
65
AFRICAN QUEEN, THE
66
RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK
67
WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF?
68
UNFORGIVEN
69
TOOTSIE
70
CLOCKWORK ORANGE, A
71
SAVING PRIVATE RYAN
72
SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION, THE
73
BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID
74
SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, THE
75
IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT
76
FORREST GUMP
77
ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN
78
MODERN TIMES
79
WILD BUNCH, THE
80
APARTMENT, THE
81
SPARTACUS
82
SUNRISE
83
TITANIC
84
EASY RIDER
85
NIGHT AT THE OPERA, A
86
PLATOON
87
12 ANGRY MEN
88
BRINGING UP BABY
89
SIXTH SENSE, THE
90
SWING TIME
91
SOPHIE'S CHOICE
92
GOODFELLAS
93
FRENCH CONNECTION, THE
94
PULP FICTION
95
LAST PICTURE SHOW, THE
96
DO THE RIGHT THING
97
BLADE RUNNER
98
YANKEE DOODLE DANDY
99
TOY STORY
100
BEN-HUR


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:06 PM

Hmm. A reasonable list.

How about:

Dances With Wolves
Groundhog Day
The Magnificent Seven
The Aviator
Gangs of New York
The Caine Mutiny
Miller's Crossing
Bram Stoker's Dracula

(I'm biased, of course...)

I would also pick "Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back" as a better film than the first one in the series.

Funny...they didn't pick any William Shatner films. What is wrong with those people???


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: ard mhacha
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:11 PM

Great expectations, Oliver Twist, David Copperfield, Jane Eyre, A man for all seasons,Zulu. I`m alright Jack. all excellent films and worthy of inclusion, the reason for their non-inclusion, they are all British,


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:21 PM

Aha! Good point. And you don't see any French or German or Russian films on the list either, do you?


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:23 PM

23 films dropped off the list:

DR. ZHIVAGO (former #39), THE BIRTH OF A NATION (former #44), FROM HERE TO ETERNITY (former #52), AMADEUS (former #53), ALL QUIET ON THE WESTERN FRONT (former #54), THE THIRD MAN (former #57), FANTASIA (former #58), REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE (former #59), STAGECOACH (former #63), CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (former #64), THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE (former #67), AN AMERICAN IN PARIS (former #68), WUTHERING HEIGHTS (former #73), DANCES WITH WOLVES (former #75), GIANT (former #82), FARGO (former #84), MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY (former #86), FRANKENSTEIN (former #87), PATTON (former #89), THE JAZZ SINGER (former #90), MY FAIR LADY (former #91), A PLACE IN THE SUN (former #92) and GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER (former #99).

Other fact about the list from AFI's website HERE


It was a suprise to me that the decade that has the most films on the list was the 1970's.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: MaineDog
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:41 PM

We must not forget "The Little Shop of Horrors"!
MD


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 02:51 PM

"The Sting," has been my favorite movie since it came out, and it doesn't even show up on the things that were dropped off, which are mostly better than the movies still on there, especailly "Dr. Shivago."


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Becca72
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 03:09 PM

Imagine that...the America Film Institute choosing American films..
:-)

I only own 5 of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: alanabit
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 03:50 PM

Two Charlie Chaplin films are there, but not "The Great Dictator". Two James Stewart films are there, but not "Harvey". These lists don't mean much. It's not a bad list though, which mainly comprises of very good films. However, I am surprised to see the appalling "The Sound of Music" in there. I start to feel compassion for people who want to strangle nice English nannies and cute little kids when I see that one nowadays. I have never been able to watch more than the first ten minutes of "Gone With The Wind". The staggering ineptitude of the acting and direction ought to succeed in at least making it (unintentionally) funny. However, it is so cringingly embarrassing, you can't bring yourself to mock the afflicted. I know some people can tough out the whole thing - but not sensitive guys like me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: dwditty
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM

Mainedog, Ihope you mean the original Little SHop of Horrors with Jack Nicholson as the dentist.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 04:09 PM

Dr. Zhivago tops my list.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 04:10 PM

Sometimes when I look at the list Alanabit I can't help but think that some of the films made it to the list because they were "significant" and not necessarily "good". Jaws opened up the concept of the summer blockbuster - but it wasn't a great film. Gone With the Wind had the word "damn" in it. Easy Rider helped break the studio system. But I wouldn't call any of those movies great by any means.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mickey191
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 05:53 PM

I'm astonished that West Side Story is there. Beymer & Natalie had _no_ chemistry. The play was magical-Carol Lawrence & Larry Kert (what ever happened to them?) were top drawer. Great voices.

SOund of Music? Gag Me!

I will never understand the continuing adulation for "Citizen Kane." I'm aware of the Greg Toland camera innovations & the Mercury's fine players-I just don't get it. Never have.

Overlooked: How Green Was My Valley & Lion in Winter.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: skipy
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:05 PM

Best ever:- Field of dreams
Skipy
and if you think it is about baseball, get some help!


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:18 PM

Field of Dreams was good, yeah. Kevin Costner has been in several quite good movies, but after awhile it didn't matter what he did, the critics and just about everyone else thought it was terrible. This was a bit unfair to Kevin Costner, I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:23 PM

Breaking Away
What About Bob?
Spitfire Grill
Four Seasons


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: John Hardly
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 06:24 PM

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:12 PM

High Noon
Mutiney on the Bounty (Trevor Howard, world class bastard)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: skipy
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 07:22 PM

Mutiney on the Bounty + our very own Barry Dransfield!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:07 PM

Where's Fellini?


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Ythanside
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:09 PM

Have seen and enjoyed 74 of the 100 listed, 22 out of the 23 in Wesley S's list as well as some of the others.
Have to go with kendall's No 1 choice, Dr Zhivago. Perhaps that's because I had a 'thing' about Julie Christie in the sixties, and the seventies, and the eighties, and the nineties and,...ummm,... still do, actually. Hmmm, think I'll just dig out the DVD again, it's been weeks since I last played it.

Ythanside :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: RangerSteve
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:12 PM

If this list is supposed to go with the TV special from last week, then it was the 100 greatest American films, not the greatest films in general, which is why they're all American, or produced by American studios.

I never got "The Godfather". I thought it was ok, but not first rate. I also don't get "2001". Two people explained the movie to me, and afterward, I understood it even less. "Sound of Music" is far from the best musical. It was enjoyable, and had good tunes, but "My Fair Lady" is far superior. Incidentally, if all you know about the Trapp Family comes from the movie, then you know nothing about them. Their real-life story just wouldn't make a good movie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 08:15 PM

Most of the suggested additions are worthy.
Some of my favorites not on the list are:

An American in Paris
Moulin Rouge
Midnight Cowboy is on the list, but other groundbreakers- such as the first Showboat- are not.
and help me with this one- a Japanese film about a trucker (played John Wayne style) helping a woman to improve the noodles in her noodle shop.

I agree, lots of good foreign films but it is an American list. Zulu was mentioned above but there were many others. Lieutenant Kiji should be there. I am trying to collect some of them before they disappear fro Ebay, Amazon or whatever.

Amadeus? Ugh


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 10:09 PM

The Horse's Mouth. Loved it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: freightdawg
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 11:44 PM

The Mrs. Freightdawg and I noticed several things about the list. One is the number of Alfred Hitchcock films. Two is the number of Jimmy Stewart films, ditto Humphry Bogart.

Ya start with good stuff, and you add quality actors, you're gonna end up with a good movie.

Ah, for yesteryear.

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 12:01 AM

"Birth of a Nation" was on a list of "greatest movies"???
Have you ever seen that thing? It may, unfortunately, have been a significant movie, but how any one could call it good, let alone great, is beyond me.
(In case anyone doesn't know, BOAN is a melodramatic glorification of the Ku Klux Klan, with at least one rescue of a lovely pure white woman from the clutches of a sub-human mullato.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 01:12 AM

I'd be curious to know what the criteria for 'great' was. Like Wesley, some of them, such as "Jaws" were significant, but I wouldn't call them 'great' by a long shot. I wouldn't consider any of the Stars Wars movies great, myself. Great special effects and technological break throughs, but great movie? I don't think so.

Unlike Wesley, I'm not surprised at the number of movies from the 70's. I though the late 60's through the mid 70's, in particular, produced some stellar films. Some, many from that era, that I would have included are:

"Johnny Got His Gun"
"They Shoot Horses, Don't They"
"Wait Until Dark"
"The Heart is a Lonely Hunter"
"Rachael, Rachael"
"One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"
"Monster" (currently under discussion on another thread)
"A Beautiful Mind"

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:26 AM

I've noticed one problem with some of the lists posted above.

There are film titles being posted which are ambiguous.
Q mentions 'Moulin Rouge' - but which film? The recent musical or the Toulouse-Latrec biopic?
Wesley S mentions 'All Quiet on the Western Front" but again, the Lew Ayres classic or the 'John-boy Walton' version?

I would put "The Four Feathers" on the list, but the 1939 Korda version, not the 1950s (three Kitcheners) film nor the appalling the 1979 (Powell/Bridges) version (and as for the 2004 parody, well I've flushed better).

Where titles have been reused or there are several versions, please specify which.

Tom (Walrus)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: kendall
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:40 AM

Breaker Morant should be on that list too.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:57 AM

The most important question is Janie's, what are the criteria for "greatness"?

Was the AFI list headed as in the subject box , or "The 100 greatest American films". If the first, why do we suppose 'American' wasn't in the title?

There are many such lists.

Perhaps we can add our own top 100s - now that would be interesting.

N.B. If that engages you, make sure you sharply differentiate "greatest" from "favourite" - not the same ting.





       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: van lingle
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 08:00 AM

Fargo
The Big Lebowski
The Quiet Man
Best In Show
and second The Horses Mouth
The Third Man


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 08:11 AM

A complete pile of shite.

The list is more revealing for what's left off than what's on it.

If I'm not mistaken there is not one single foreign film on the entire list (non-English language). Many of the films are the sort of fetid Hollywood effluent that infests the cinemas and living rooms of the world - infecting the unquestioning protoplasmic blobs who consume this excreta with it's banality and mediocrity and endless glorification of violence. The whole list epitomises the cutural conceit of the American movie industry, and ably demonstrates is it's own myopic insularity and self-congratulatory nature.

No Kurosawa? Werner Herzog? Gondry? Bergman?

No Japanese, Chinese, German, Indian, French or Italian? Not even a single independent British film.

Although many of the films on the list are of course worthy of their place there, are we supposed to believe that Tootsie (!) is somehow better than The Seven Samurai, or that The Sixth Sense somehow outclasses Pan's Labyrinth as a piece of film-making.

Heck - even the best of American cinema isn't represented - no David Lynch?

Streuth.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 08:28 AM

It's true-Janie's point is the most important one---this list doesn't deserve our attention unless we know something of the criteria the alleged "experts" used in putting it together.

I agree completely with those who criticise "Sound of Music" 's inclusion. Even Christopher Plummer himself called it "The Sound of Mucus".

And how did "Silence of the Lambs" get in?

I'd put Rear Window much higher.    And I'd have Das Boot high on the list--amazing recreation of the hideous conditions on a sub -- the viewer seems to experience them-- --and from the German point of view.

West Side Story?--but not Man for All Seasons--which grapples with essential issues--and is a wonderful movie on top of that? Inexcusable.

And Amadeus--which also deals with crucial issues--would never fall off my list.

Far too many from the 70's--was that the "experts" teenage years? Since evidently that's one of the reasons people like certain pop music--it's based on their own memories.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 09:04 AM

You are probably right ,in part, about the '70s, Ron. but that was also a time rich in 'mainstream' films that did deal with 'meaty' issues.

I think foreign films are not mentioned because the list was designated as American films.

Good point, Ivor, about great vs favorite. I certainly have some fav's that would never make a 'great' list.

I haven't much exposure to foreign language films, but of the few I have seen, I would consider "My Life as a Dog" to be a fine, if not great, one.

Janie


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: John Hardly
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 09:16 AM

Ishtar
Gigli


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

Janie--

I don't think AFI gets off that easily. I don't think it specified the list was only of American movies--I couldn't find that qualification. Where is it?

AFI seems to claim these as "the best movies of all time"-- in this order---in the whole world.

And--though they have a lot of good ones--- they're way off.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM

"I think foreign films are not mentioned because the list was designated as American films. "

You are right I think, but on the website the phrase "100 greatest movies of all time" and "100 greatest American films of all time" both appear and seem to be interchangeable, suggesting the AFI thinks the greatest 100 films of all time are American. Which they're not.

So let's expand the list to include all films ever made anywhere. It really is worth popping down the library and getting these foreign films out - the standard of these films is often very high and they often tackle their themes with the sort of wit and intelligence that is lacking from so many films on the list above.

Here are some I consider to be worthy of true greatness*

The Downfall (German) - the story of Hitler's last days in the bunker - incredible performance by Bruno Ganz showing the moster was a man.

Pan's Labyrinth (Spanish) - del Toro's intelligent and imaginative fantasy story set just after the Spanish Civil War. A truly great film - in turns harrowing and delightful.

Frozen Land (Norweigan) - Set in the suburbs of Helsinki, a bitter, unflinching tale of unfulfilled lives and the fact we're all at the mercy of events often beyond our knowledge or control - full of black humour and fine performances from the cast.

Das Boot (German) - Already mentioned above, the war as seen through the eyes of a U boat crew. Get the subtitled version not the dubbed.

*Obviously this list is totally subjective and all thee titles are the English versions.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Ron Davies
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:02 AM

I certainly agree about getting the subtitled version of Das Boot. I think there was something about the dubbed version being somehow abridged--or maybe there was an abridged version that came out in English. Abridged versions are to be avoided.


Similarly--if I recall correctly-- there was an abridged version of Rear Window.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Stu
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 11:19 AM

My spolling is bloudy awfool.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 01:06 PM

Non American Films for the top 100 list
Âîéíà è ìèð - The Russian version of War and Peace
Napoleon - the Abel Gance silent film
I agree on Das Boot
Seven Samurai, Yojimbo and Ran (choose any or all of these)
Henry V (Branagh) - if only because it is the complete version)unlike the 1944 Olivier one which was abridged), more accurately potrays the brutality of medaeval warfare and one gets better feel for the original 'bawdy' nature of the scenes involving Katherine and her Nurse.
Westfront 1918 - not Great acting, but the Western Front seen from the German side (made by Germans, most of whom were veterans)
Les Criox de Bois (The Wooden Crosses), again, a view of the Western Front by veterans - a powerful anti-war film which had been 'mined' for scenes by Hollywood (which must say something about the quality of the film).
I've alrady mentioned "The Four Feathers" (1939/Korda) and Zulu has already had a few honourable mentions.

If I think of any more, I'll add them.

Walrus


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 01:15 PM

I think "The Sound of Music" was one of the worst, most appallingly awful movies of all time...at least among what could be termed major films. It's excruciating. To sit through the entire film is unthinkable, as five or ten minutes of it would be enough to send most people screaming from the room, in my opinion. ;-)

"Das Boot" should definitely be in the top 100.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:22 PM

Wesley S. mislead with his original post; he is not a reliable reporter.
The AFI list is confined to the 100 greatest AMERICAN movies of all time. Offshore films are not a part of the list. A "blue ribbon panel of leaders from across the film community" made the selection. Of course, a panel of film analysts would have been better, but no one would accept a list by knowledgeable students of film.

It pays to go to a reliable source before contributing to a thread of this sort. I was guilty also of posting before investigating.

http://www.afi.com/tvevents/100years/movies.aspx
AFI 100 Years


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:28 PM

Well, that's okay, then.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 02:47 PM

I think the AFI's selection (and the substantial prime time special that was broadcast before the list was made available) are mainly to drum up interest in the industry that gives them their reason for being. And I approve. I think it's fun to talk about films, I think they're very important because whether we like it or not a lot of our culture goes into them and some even comes out of them.

Some movies like Harvey, Citizen Cain, To Kill A Mockingbird have intrinsic meaning to me and whether or not they wind up on a list has no additional weight.

If this all adds up to better preservation of more movies, which I think it does, so much the better.

There should be an international great movie list to which some of the AFI selections might aspire as well. I would put Seven Samurai right up there with Citizen Cain as one of the great all timers.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:24 PM

another kurosawa film
dersu usala


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 03:33 PM

I once took two girls I knew to see "Dersu Usala". It's a marvelous film. They, however, had grown up on shows like "Three's Company" and "Mork and Mindy" and they simply didn't get it. They were completely uninterested in a story about a little old oriental guy, had no interest in nature, no interest in character development, no interest in culture....sheesh! To them the movie was a total waste of time, and about halfway through it they both started giggling and laughing, because they thought it was a ridiculously pointless movie, completely devoid of entertainment value. It had no love story, no cool-looking guys, no hot looking babes, no fast cars, no parties....

I was not pleased with them. I had to sit through the whole second half of a great movie and listen to them laugh and complain about how stupid it was.

You really have to be careful who you go to see a movie with. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 06:47 PM

Describing non-American films as "off-shore" films - well, I wouldn't have been able to make that up. Makes it sound like all films that aren't American are made in the sea.


And the US film industry, with its impossibly rich budgets, 'stars', directors and pretty thorough grip on the world's cinemas and TVs needs interest in it 'drummed up' ? I mean, if that IS the reason, then we must be close to the heart of human insecurity. Here, security is, in two words, im possible.


It's non-American films that need interest in them drummed up. Alas.


Just to stop, back on track,

Battleship Potemkin (Russian 1925) - knocks most modern films into a cocked hat on the technical front simply because it demonstrates so many possibilities for using, really using, film-making techniques themselves. Rather than reliance on script and actors. And not the same thing as special effects.

The Children of Paradise (France 1945) - the most beautiful film in the world?

The Lady with the Little Dog (Russia 1960) - the most tender love story in the world?

Little Murders (US 1971/2) - the 'little murders' being those we all commit daily without realising it.

Cyrano de Bergerac (Fr.1990) - a great film for encouraging the feeling that it might be great to be alive.

Russian Ark (Rus. 2002) - had me on the edge of my seat , waiting for an error, since I sat down to it knowing that the whole 90 minute thing was shot in one take. Just one. Amazing. Jaw-dropping.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 07 Jul 07 - 07:02 PM

Kendall - agreed- Breaker Morant is a superb film. Whoever mentioned Zulu (several did...) -- now that is a good film. Loved 'Y tu mama, tambien....' but this list is about American films as has been stated so few of my favorites are on it. I also thought 'The Full Monty' was a pretty wonderful film, and no, it wasn't a comedy....

A Lion In Winter - wonderful; Mad Max ( Ithink that was the title); liked Pride and Prejudice although the BBC mini series blew the movie away and for absolutely TERRIFYING MOVIES .... how about 'Sexy Beasts' with Ben Kingsley and others......I still wake up in a cold sweat afraid of the Ben Kingsley character........


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: kendall
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 03:58 PM

Zorba the Greek


Some years ago, there was a huge woolen mill in Germany that went under due to foreign competition. They sold it to a man who bred, trained and boarded a very special breed of hunting dog.
Within 6 months his new business grew so big and so succesful that it made the news.
The headline read:














THE MILLS ARE ALIVE WITH THE HOUNDS OF MUNICH


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 04:18 PM

Jack, Jim and Ces decided to do a dramatisation of scened from Don Quixote.

Jack said," I'll play the title role, Jim will be Sancho Panza, and

































Ces 'e'll be de mille."






      Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 05:09 PM

Offshore and offshoring- this may still be North American. Whenever a product can be made or a procedure done more cheaply in China or India or Mexico or wherever, the manufacture or job is moved there. This is called 'offshoring.' It originated in the business community.

In current Amerispeak, 'Offshore' seems to be replacing 'abroad' and similar words- 'it was made offshore.'


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Jul 07 - 06:35 PM

Jimmy Cagney should be in there - The Roaring Twenties perhaps


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 12:10 PM

kolya , plus 2 other favorites are the Czech dramatizations of the Good Soldier Schweik and Beg to Report Sir (Part 2)..
both made in the 50s with an incomparable cast of Czech actors and remarkably close to the original novel set and written by Hasek during WWI.

2 other russian films that I absolutely loved were..
My Friend Ivan Lapshin, and Days of Eclipse.


and a Russian Mongolian collaboration 'Close to Eden' or Urga.
when films take you places you dont expect,
and when you cant predict what is going to happen (because of some formula)

those are quality films.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: mrdux
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 04:31 PM

Q inquired about "a Japanese film about a trucker (played John Wayne style) helping a woman to improve the noodles in her noodle shop."

Tampopo

As to the list, well, it's a list. I'd say it includes most of the "great" US films, and it includes its share of crap and its share of ok films that will barely be remembered twenty years from now. It seems to have accomplished what WesleyS intended in his intial post: to start a discussion.

A few of my own additions to the list that haven't been mentioned yet:

Red River
His Girl Friday
My Man Godfrey
The Cavalry Trilogy (John Ford)
Touch of Evil
The Thin Man
The Big Sleep

. . . just off the top of my head.

I am intrigued by autolycus' suggestion:

"Perhaps we can add our own top 100s - now that would be interesting."

michael


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 04:53 PM

Any list that claims to be the "greatest" or "best" is doomed to failure - simply because it's such a subjective topic in the first place. My best films couldn't possible be your best films. I wish that the AFI website would list the criteria that was used to determine the list in the first place. Or did they just ask a bunch of folks what their favorites were? If so - who got to pick these movies?


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 06:10 PM

The AFI site said people like critics, producers, generally people in the biz. 'bout 1500 of 'em?



    Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 06:12 PM

"Sometimes a Great Notion"


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Peter T.
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 06:16 PM

"Doctor Zhivago" is really a ridiculously second rate film -- those fake sets and that endless theme song that appears whenever the plot drags (like in beach party movies). It's only claim to fame is that it has Julie Christie in it, who, I admit, is a goddess.

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM

Actually, the theme of the movie was pretty important, of course it was based on a pretty important book.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:00 AM

Some of my favourites are missing;
Truly, Madly, Deeply, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, The Lion In Winter, A Man for All Seasons, Margarets Museum, Monty Python's Holy Grail, Breaker Morant , The Full Monty.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:06 AM

Mrdux: I like your list. William Powell - who won't mean anything to anyone under 50 - was great to watch. I must admit that, the older I get, the less I enjoy "heavy" films, and the more I enjoy witty, feel-good movies.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:08 AM

My goodness, Peter, how ungratious of you! ;-)

My dear fellow, the thing that makes Doctor Zhivago a "great film" is simply that it looks like a great film and sounds like a great film. It gives that superficial impression. This is the vital thing in marketing, you see. You don't have to be a duck, you just have to walk like a duck, talk like a duck, and look like a duck. Do this, and everyone will assume you are a duck.

Everyone, that is, except a few nitpicking cynics and ivory tower intellectuals whom I could name, but shan't...

*(the above post is tongue in cheek)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:04 AM

Personally, I like the music in a movie. That's one of the reasons, I think, I liked Dr. Zhivago, and probably the reason I really like "Sometimes a Great Notion," and "The Sting."


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:11 AM

However - There are times in movies when a repeated theme is overdone. "High Noon" comes to mind. Do not forsake Oh my darlin'.....over and over and over....


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: mrdux
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:20 PM

Tunesmith --

Powell has been a favorite of mine since I first saw My Man Godfrey many years ago in a film class. My wife (under 50), who led a cinematically deprived life until we met a dozen years ago, had never seen a black-and-white film, let alone heard of William Powell. I got her hooked (wicked fellow that I am) on "The Thin Man" series ("Here, try this, Honey") and Bogart films and she "discovered" Hitchcock on her own. It was a treat to watch her watching The Magnificent Ambersons for the first time. I've been having a great time with her new film fascination, rewatching my favorites from the 30s and 40s and even seeing some that I managed to miss.

michael
(well past 50)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:22 PM

"Lara's Theme" is to Dr. Zhivago what snow is to Russia -- way too much of it in drifts and piles.....

(The theme bears no relationship to the book, but then the film bears no relationship to the book either.....)

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:27 PM

I tend to agree. It starts to bug me by about 2/3 of the way into the movie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:27 PM

I've always thought the "........won't mean anything to anyone under......." argument very odd in the fields of film, music, etc.

They are in permanent forms, so can be come across by anyone of any age, in the shape of videos, screenings at 'historical' cinemas, on discs, etc.

I've heard of Beethoven, who was a bit before my time......thanks to discs etc.

Etc.etc.etc.etc.etc.

It's like when journos say, once the last survivors of World War 1 pass, we won't know anything about WW1, simply because no-one who was there is alive. I always wondered why no-one's ever heard of Julius Caesar.





       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 04:31 PM

Who?

(just kidding)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:01 PM

I do not think that a "Greatest Films" list should be drawn according to subjective taste. That should be the basis for a "Favorite Films" list. A successful artist, in any field, needs an audience or else he is whistling in the closet. The best films are those that reach to their audeince to such an extent that they leave a lifelong impression. "The Wizard of Oz" comes to mind. I am a folksinger and I can assure you that the one song that every audience will sing is "Over the Rainbow". I don't know anyone who hasn't seen the movie again and again. "Citizen Kane" may have been a terrific movie (I thought it was slow moving and self-conciously theatrical) but they ain't showing it in TV every holiday.
Of course, this means that "Gone With the Wind" is up there, too, even though I couldn't stay awake through it. It was like the eternal flame. But, an awful lot of people (mostly women) rewatch it often and get the same, old charge.
This is how all great art should be ranked. Not by personal taste but by universality and message.

                MIke


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:21 PM

The Wizard of Oz definitely ranks as one of the most classic films in that sense, and yes, so does "Gone With The Wind", although to me it's way too melodramatic.

Here's a Paul Newman film that I would rank among the finest 100 films of all time: "Hud"

It was a masterpiece...and it was the perfect vehicle for the young Paul Newman.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:32 PM

I still say the Paul Newman movie I like best is "Sometimes a Great Notion." It couldn't have been made without Huddie Lebetter.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 12:54 AM

"...A successful artist, in any field, needs an audience or else he is whistling in the closet. The best films are those that reach to their audeince to such an extent that they leave a lifelong impression. "The Wizard of Oz" comes to mind ... I don't know anyone who hasn't seen the movie again and again. "Citizen Kane" may have been a terrific movie ... but they ain't showing it in TV every holiday..".

Perhaps the selection criterion should be the numbers of tape, DVD and/or ticket sales, say from 5 or 10 years after release (to avoid ticket and home sales from 'release marketing)?

W


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 04:55 AM

Walrus is on the right path but that kind of determination needs more time. "Wizard" and "GWTW" were made almost 70 years ago. Their enduring popularity is tested. More recent films that would qualify include "Psycho", "Moonstruck" and "Singin' In The Rain".
Films like "Citizen Kane" and "Birth Of A Nation" were inovative and important but too esoteric to retain a sizable audience. They are more like such mileposts as "The Jazz Singer" and that train robbery movie where the guy shoots a gun at the camera.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,ibo
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 11:37 AM

CASINO,ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOOS NEST,AND GOODFELLAS ARE UNDOUBTEDLY THE BEST FILMS EVER MADE.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:22 PM

Sorry, I see no necessary connection between size of audience and merit/quality/greatness.

Anyone could produce any number examples of very popular rubbish.





      Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 02:55 PM

"Moonstruck" was a great movie. I must say that I have always been impressed by Cher when she went into acting. She's a very good actress, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 01:43 AM

And while on the subject of Cher, another movie I have always enjoyed is "The Witches of Eastwick". There have been a number of really good Jack Nicholson movies - the aforementioned "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" - definitely one of the greats, and "As Good As It Gets", to name a few.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 10:57 AM

Jenny - "As Good As It Gets" really got on my nerves. It shows a woman falling in love with a very disfunctional man who has shown only the slightest intrest in improvement. What did you see in that movie that you liked? As I've gotten older I find myself getting bugged by the types of relationships that Hollywood promotes. This was one of them.

A Hollywood storyline that really bothers me is the man and woman who are in conflict for most of the movie until they suddenly look deeply in each others eyes and fall into each other arms, kiss, and live happily ever after. I thought of "As Good As It Gets" as just a variation of that theme.YMMV.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:05 AM

Yeah, I don't buy this thing about women and men who initially can't stand each other but end up eventually falling in love. However, it does provide much opportunity for drama, doesn't it? I guess that's why it is a device so beloved by the moviemakers.

What is far more common in life is women and men who like each other great at the beginning, and can't stand each other after they're been together awhile... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: 3refs
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 11:54 AM

Slap Shot and Porky's.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 05:21 PM

Of course, popularity, alone, does not determine the greatness of a movie but neither does esoteric artistry. I thought that the Canadian production of Oedipus Rex was terrific but it was seen by so few people that it harly qualifies as an artistic success. (Art is like a radio wave. Without a receiver, it does not exist). Truly great films, films that alter the vistas of a universal audience, are few and far between. Some "great' films are flawed. "It's A Wonderful Life" is hokey and Capracorny but, to the generations that have turned it into a ritual, it is the epitome of the American concept of religious faith. Unlike the two Clint Eastwood movies with the monkey, that far outbox officed it, Wonderful Life endures and will continue to endure. I don't know about you but, every time I hear a bell, I assume that Clarence got his wings.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 07:13 PM

That's odd. I always assume that the orangutan from those two Clint Eastwood films is finally getting laid...

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,Dusty Tapes
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 08:11 PM

American Film Institute. May be that only American films were considered, but then there's a David Lean and Stanley Kubrick movie there. Strange. Open it up to international movies and there are a bunch of Kurosawa, Bergman, Fellini films, etc. Limit it to American movies and there are lots that are great, maybe as good as some on the list. Someone mentioned Cher, and 'Moonstruck' is an excellent movie. So many...a movie called 'Fresh', one called 'Ghost Dog,' one called 'Smoke.' Not big-dollar movies but definitely first-rate, in my humble opinion. The Coen brothers make outstanding movies. I'd have to pick 8 1/2, The Seventh Seal & Seven Samurai as the best of the best. Damn...High Noon, Once upon a time in the West, Oxbow Incident...lots and lots of good westerns. I need to dust off my VCR tapes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Jul 07 - 08:35 PM

Couldn't agree more about the Coen brothers. I already nominated Miller's Crossing. Raising Arizona is also a real gem, although it's not what you would call one of those "big" films...just a great offbeat little comedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 12:26 AM

I wonder about comedies. They're funny the first time you watch them, but the second time around you know all the punch lines.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:08 AM

"...Sorry, I see no necessary connection between size of audience and merit/quality/greatness.

Anyone could produce any number examples of very popular rubbish
..."

Autolycus,

The 'popular rubbish' tends to be sold initially hype and doesn't seem to last, hence my idea of waiting five or ten years until the hype died down and the initial populism had worn off.

W


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 06:59 AM

Little Hawk might be interested in knowing that the orangutan never gets laid but does succede Eastwood as mayor of Carmel, a post he filled. most ably, until he was assasinated by Lee VanCleef.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:12 AM

If there are any more free orang utans out there, I think they may be in with a chance for the governor's post in California...


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

Wesley asked me why I liked "As Good As It Gets", and I have been thinking about it.

For a start, I think Jack Nicholson is a great actor - he can portray every emotion without even speaking. I think the humour is quirky, and I like that all the characters are battlers - ordinary people who are trying to carve out a nice life for themselves with what life has handed them. His character, Melvin, and those of Helen Hunt as the waitress, Carol, and Greg Kinnear as the gay artist, Simon, are fully developed with so much depth that you feel that there might be even more to learn.

I find Jack Nicholson's obsessive compulsive character quite fascinating, as you are gradually let into his world, and see what drives him, and realise how hard it is for him to interact normally with other people. You see glimpses of his soft side, but he mostly keeps his guard up - he is really in survival mode - until he is forced to interact with Simon, his dog, and Carol.

These people start to affect him - or should I say, they start to affect each other, each in their own way, and in the end it is their salvation. I keep coming back to the compliment Melvin pays Carol "You make me want to be a better man." They are all helping each other to move towards being the best they can be, and having the best life they can have - and in this imperfect world, that is AS GOOD AS IT GETS!

I find this movie emotionally moving AND funny (a winning combination) and I feel uplifted by the time it's finished. That's why I like it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:59 AM

Mike M

Works of art do not have to be esoteric to fail to get a big audience. Often, just having some art can do that. Certainly, having obvious crowd-pulling moves will get an audience (aka 'giving the audience what it wants'). Hollywood (tho' not only H.) is shameless for doing stuff to get the biggest possible audience.

Lots of rubbish does that.

Lots of art doesn't do the shameless bit, and is no less great.

And we should distinguish what is designed just as entertainment (what a lot of people want only) or merely to get the biggest possible box-office takings, from what has higher aspirations.

For example, catharsis, to move, to hint at reality, to enlighten, to express deeply, to offer a new understanding, to produce a beautiful object, as a means to development,       and other stuff.





       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 01:03 PM

There are certain types of humor, Rinslinger, that work precisely because one already knows the punch line. The show "Laugh-In" was largely based on that principle, for instance. It's one's anticipation of the approaching punchline that provides the humor.

One comedy that never loses its power for me is Groundhog Day. It's a very funny and very wise movie which makes a great point about karma and human existence. It could be seen as a parable about reincarnation and the search for wisdom on the part of the human soul, matter of fact.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Raedwulf
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 01:19 PM

All such greatest lists tend to be biased towards recent memory. Nothing wrong with debate, but the fact that All Quiet On The Western Front seems to be missing says that it's less than definitve.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mike Miller
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:49 PM

I agree that "As Good As It Gets" is a story of redemtion and recovery through love. It has humor because, often, reality is funny.
I would compare it to "African Queen", which was funny, meaningful and profitable. It was, surely, Bogart's best performance.
On the subject of Hollywood fluff. I confess a weakness for well done slapstick. "The Wrong Box", "Noises Off" and "The Producers" (The 1st one) are worthy of repeat looks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:51 PM

"There are certain types of humor, Rinslinger, that work precisely because one already knows the punch line. The show "Laugh-In" was largely based on that principle, for instance..."

                I guess it just doesn't work for me. "Laugh-In" certainly didn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:10 PM

"Laugh-In" worked for me sometimes, didn't work at other times. It would probably seem dreadfully dated now, but there were some very gifted comedians on that show.

Another comedy I could see again and again with the same enjoyment was "Love At First Bite".


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 06:10 PM

I guess I never got beyond The Three Stooges.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:15 PM

Ah, yes...the Three Stooges.

Remember the one where they were involved in some demolition work (the perfect job for those guys), and they got in a struggle with a guy in the next building over, trying to pull his phone line through the wall?


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:16 PM

Raedwulf,

"...Nothing wrong with debate, but the fact that All Quiet On The Western Front seems to be missing says that it's less than definitve..."
I do hope that you are referring to the original (1930, Lew Ayres) version and not the 1979 Richard Thomas ("John Boy Walton") version (although it was one of the few films in which Ernest Borgnine 'disappears' into his role).

Walrus


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:31 PM

100!

How appropriate.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:17 PM

"Dr. Strangelove".....a classic.

Bergman's "Seventh Seal", "Wild Strawberries" and although he dismissed it himself I loved "Smiles of a Summer's Night" (not American)

"Black Orpheus" (not American)

"Lavender Hill Mob" (not American)

Aside from "Schindler's List" most American films are flawed. In "Kane" I think Orson went over the top. "Gone With The Wind" was an overblown....well you know. "The Third Man" was Orson again over the top.

"King of Hearts" was a sleeper-charmer.

Olivier's "Hamlet" was commendable as was "Henry V"

Of the musicals, "Forty-Second Street", "Broadway Melody of 1940" because of the breathtaking dance combo of Eleanor Powell and Fred Astaire.

Most book musicals just don't work for film because of the naturalistic medium. The only exception where the film version was better than the stage musical was "Cabaret". That's because the show wasn't great on Broadway. But not top 100.

Peter Brook's "King Lear" and "Mahabarata" were exceptional films though not American.

I thought that "Close Encounters" was a much better film than the "Star Wars" cartoons.

Many of the AFI's recommendations were weak. If you ever saw "West Side Story" with the original cast, the movie would be a let-down.

There is a strong Hollywood bias in the selections. We could nit-pick their selections but what would be the point?

Reflecting on many of the above choices, in some they display character inconsistencies,
continuity flaws and writing with holes in it.

"Breaker Morant" was an Aussie film, I believe.

"The Blue Angel" was an interesting film with Emil Jannings debuting Dietrich.

About twenty or so of the list seem to be accurate.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:30 PM

Having not seen West Side Story with the original cast, I was rather well impressed with the movie. The main thing wrong with it was that the guy who played "Tony" just didn't ring true. As a movie, it was a pretty good one.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: rangeroger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:07 PM

Missing from these lists is one of my favorites;"Harold and Maude" with Bud Cort and Ruth Gorden.

rr


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:40 PM

Memorable, but perhaps not great- a British film about several English misfits being matched with Filipino brides. A comedy with happy ending, but the theme concerns the need of everyone to have a partner.
Does anyone remember it? The title "Filipino Baby" comes to mind but I can't find anything but the country song under that name.
Any information would be appreciated.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:03 AM

"...but there were some very gifted comedians..."

          LH - I can remember being 16 years old and seeing the Marx Brothers movie, "The Night of the Opera," for the first time.
I'd never laughed so hard in my life. I laughed so hard my chest hurt, my whole body hurt.

          Maybe the funiest thing was, all through the movie, Harpo was sneaking along in the orchestra area, doing something with the music--nobody knew what he was doing--then, at just the right moment, everybody turned the page on the musical score, and they started playing "Take Me Out To The Ballgame."

          I watched the same movie again, years later, and it didn't seem funny at all.

          I think there's something really magical about comedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:39 AM

Hmmm. I never "got" the Marx Brothers for some reason. Specially Groucho. He just seemed like an obnoxious jerk to me.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 03:24 AM

When I was a teenager in the 70s, I use to love the Pink Panther films. When I watch them now, they don't seem funny at all.I did get the Marx Brothers, but only Groucho.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 04:11 AM

I think part of the problem is defining 'what makes it an American film'?

Is it the director or producer?

Is it the funding?

Is it the company that made it?

Is it the cast?

Is it the book/script writer?

Many of the films in the first list are not exclusively American. 'Sound of Mucus' has a mostly English cast. 'The Lord of the Rings trilogy' was produced and directed by a New Zealander. 'Vertigo was directed by an Englishman. 'Schindlers List (or Ark)' was written by an Australian and had a mostly English cast... the permutations are endless.

There are some great films there. There are some mediocre films listed too... I have seen 40 of them, own on DVD or VHS 19 of them and have the books or stories they were based on for 10 of them - most of which I got before they were filmed.

If this is a list of the top 100 AMERICAN films, it's flawed. If it's a list of the top 100 films WATCHED by Americans, it's probably closer to the mark.

I'm not entirely sure if I should be proud to say I've never seen 'Citizen Kane', any of the 'Godfather' movies or 'On the Waterfront'. On the other hand... I feel the same way about saying I HAVE seen 'Toy Story', 'Snow White' and 'Tootsie'.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:21 AM

"...Having not seen West Side Story with the original cast, I was rather well impressed with the movie. The main thing wrong with it was that the guy who played "Tony" just didn't ring true. As a movie, it was a pretty good one..."
I couldn't get over the fact that 'Tony' runs through Spanish Harlem shouting "Maria" and only one woman puts her head out of the window.

W


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: autolycus
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 05:49 AM

LOL

   And I don't feel ignored or anything.






       Ivor


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 09:36 AM

The movies I never got were the space extravaganzas like "Star Wars" and "A Space Odyssey." "Schindler's List" didn't do anything for me either. But most of my favorite movies aren't even on the list.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all tim
From: Mickey191
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 01:07 PM

Walrus, Trying to understand your thoughts on "West Side Story." (7/14-5:21AM) If one of the two persons playing the lead _doesn't ring true_ how can the story, the love songs and the empathy for the lovers still add up to "a pretty good story?" He (Richard Beymer) was so miscast nothing rang true for me. It would be like Red Skelton playing Hamlet. He might have the soliliquy down pat-but as you watched you keep saying "What the heck is this jerk doing in this play?" The whole of the drama's every aspect is ruined by this subordinate actor. IMO   

I did enjoy your "Maria" joke mucho!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jenny O, Your 7/13- 10:26am thoughts on "As Good as It Gets" mirror my feelings totally. I love this movie-I can never _not_ watch it if I come across it on tv. Someone further back expressed disdain for it. I wanted to respond in its defense-but couldn't get my thoughts together. You did a great job. Thanks!


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:34 PM

Mickey191,

"...Trying to understand your thoughts on "West Side Story."..." etc.

I missed a line space

The section of my post in italics was a quote of Little Hawks post of 13 Jul 07 - 10:30 PM.

W


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mickey191
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 03:00 PM

My appologies To you Walrus. I should have noticed the italics-but alas-I was caught up with loss of logic in the piece. Have a good one!

Mickey191-F.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 03:20 PM

Yes, well, you must remember, Mickey191, that I have never seen the stage play, specially with the original cast. All I have to go on is the movie. The movie was flawed by the fact that the male lead was badly miscast, as you say. Nevertheless, for the time in which it came out it was a memorable film with a lot of strong points. The Hispanic gang leader and his sister were extremely well played. "Maria" was also well played. The songs and choreography were pretty neat. The story was a good one.

That's why I'd still call it a "pretty good movie", despite the miscasting of Richard Beymer. It could, however, have been a truly great movie with somebody better suited to that part, so it's unfortunate how that happened.

Look, it could have been worse, right? They might have had the part played by Jerry Lewis...or by the young William Shatner. Think about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Mickey191
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 04:56 PM

Funny that you mention Shat. He once was a HUNK. Saw him on Broadway in "World of Susie Wong." He was great & he did start a wee heart flutter. Now when that happens it's probably angina.

Speaking of people who are taken to task here-(I've always wanted to ask this) what is the reason for Neil Young's inclusion on the Mudcat S--T list?"

You are certainly right about Chakiris(sp?) & Moreno.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:34 PM

I believe it was Spaw who started all that Neil Young nonsense...and I think he did it because he's fond of Neil and likes his music, while recognizing at the same time that Neil can be a bit odd at times. I could say the same about Shatner...I like him, but he's fun to make jokes about. And yeah, he was a hunk at one time.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:06 AM

Thank you for your compliment Mickey191.

I actually enjoy putting together my thoughts on movies that I love. Don't get much of a chance to talk about them at home, as the person I live with isn't at all interested in movies. I grab most of my chances to see one when he has gone to bed. If I want to go out to a movie, I would rather go with a girlfriend.

Many years ago I used to go out with a rather sweet guy called Brian. He was very simple and straighforward - a little like Forrest Gump. But behind the seeming low intelligence there were signs of great wisdom. I've read there are different types of intelligence, and when it came to emotional intelligence, he had it in spades. He was very sensitive to the needs of people around him and when it came to movies, he could always see past the superficial to the deeper meaning. It was a pleasure to go to movies with him and discuss them after. I'm pretty sure he would have loved "As Good As It Gets" as much as I did. It was just his kind of movie.

Someone further back mentioned "Harold and Maude". That's another one I love and will always watch when it comes on. It has a lot to say too.

I also noticed someone said that the trouble with comedies is that they are not so funny once you know the punchline. Most of the comedies I can think of aren't funny because they have a 'punchline' - it is more because of the situation - there are some funny scenes in movies that are priceless. The fact that I know what is coming doesn't seem to diminish them at all for me. In fact in some ways, knowing what is coming ADDS to the enjoyment.

I can think of a number that I never tire of watching. The Pink Panther comes to mind - especially "The Pink Panther Strikes Again", and "The Party", also Peter Sellers. I've seen "The Party" so many times I practically know the thing off by heart, but I still enjoy it just as much every time.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:16 AM

You hit it right on the nose, JennyO. It's the situation that's the funny part those movies most of the time, not the punchline. I could also watch "The Party" any number of times.

The kind of emotional intelligence you speak of might just be the most valuable thing a person can have. It's relatively rare, I find.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:30 AM

Oh goody - another lover of "The Party". Sounds like we share a similar sense of humour, LH!

I agree that kind of emotional intelligence is very valuable and unfortunately I've found it extremely rare. What a shame I lost contact with Brian. Don't know where he is now.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:36 AM

"Birdie Num-nums? Vant some birdie Num-nums?"

"In India, vee do not t'ink who vee are...vee KNOW who vee are!"

LOL!!! Love that movie!


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: JennyO
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:54 AM

Yeah, and

"Wisdom - is the province of the aged - but the heart of a child is pure."

and

"Thirty days hath September...
October, June, and February.
All the rest got twenty-nine...
Except my brother
who got six months."


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 11:26 AM

McCabe and Mrs. Miller


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 11:32 AM

The other night while channel surfing I stumbled across the last 20 minutes of what has to be one of the worst movies ever made. "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls". You wouldn't believe me if I told you about it. And it was written in part by Roger Ebert.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 11:44 AM

Fail Safe
Dr Strangelove


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 01:52 PM

"And it was written in part by Roger Ebert."

               Now we know why he became a critic.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM

Yes, he has a gift for recognizing absolute crap when he sees it. ;-)

I agree. "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" was an abysmally bad movie. It should stand as an eternal testament to just how stupid Hollywood can be.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 02:33 PM

Thanks - one of my nicknames is "Master of the Bleedin' Obvious".


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:22 PM

Casablanca
From Here to Eternity
His Girl Friday
Dr Strangelove
All Quiet on the Western Front
The Godfather
12 Angry Men
On the Waterfront
Little Big Man

for a start


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:44 PM

Was "The Summer of '42" on there?


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:41 PM

Ah, yes! That was a good one.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 02:49 AM

I don't know if "Shirley Valentine" has been mentioned but that film means so much to so many people. A lovely film beautifully acted and scripted.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 03:26 AM

Ask 100 people what their favorite film of all time is and you'll get 200 answers.

The biggest box office smash may never make it to the small screen, but the better film may be the 'straight to video'.

Personally, films have different meanings for me, depending on when and where I saw them and who I was with at the time, and what my mental state was. To me 'Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl' is a great film because playing it repeatedly on DVD helped me to not kill people. Literally.


LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Scoville
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 09:57 AM

The French Connection sucked. Or, at least, it wasn't that great.

I cannot believe Das Boot wasn't on there. The Iron Giant is as good a candidate as Toy Story, and I would have to nominate John Sayles' Lone Star and Matewan, and add The Field.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: The Walrus
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 02:32 PM

The thread has drifted slightly (and naturally) from discussing the list provided to trying to provide our own.
If we are going to sort out the hundred best films we need some selection criteria otherwise as has been repeatedly stated, it's all opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: 282RA
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 03:59 PM

Of course great foreign movies are neglected as though they don't matter when most of them are better than the drivel listed.

But those shot Britain are mentioned. But of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Wesley S
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 04:04 PM

As I recall these are basically American films. They may have been photographed in England or somewhere else - but they were financed in America. As Deep Throat said in "All the Presidents Men" - Follow the Money.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 01 Aug 07 - 11:36 PM

Just seen a really wonderful film - Notes on a Scandal....starring Cate Blanchette, Judi Dench and Bill Nighy......really terrific. Blanchette plays a teacher who gets involved with a student -- Nighy is her (much older) husband who got involved with her when she was a student but she was of legal age. Judi Dench plays an evil witch who sits on the sidelines and watches all this -- is a lesbian and secretly coveting Cate Blanchette -- and blackmailing her with knowledge of the affair with the 15 year old student. Sounds sordid (it is a bit ) but a really terrific film and well worth watching......


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: RangerSteve
Date: 02 Aug 07 - 09:57 PM

Judy Dench's performance in Notes on a Scandal gave me the creeps. I thought about that movie for days after I saw it. When they put together a list of 100 best over in the UK, Notes on a Scandal should be on the list.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 10:49 PM

I am so glad you agree. I think it should be on that list too -- Judi Dench's performance is terrifying and mesmerizing..........

I thought Cate Blanchett and Bill Nighy were terrific too (not to mention the actor who played the boy whose name escapes me). I particularly liked the scene where Nighy is confronting Blanchette about the affair and keeps asking - WHY. Her response was -- I just wanted him! To which Nighy responded -- don't you think we all see people everyday 'we just want' -- but we DON"T DO IT.....his confusion and unhappiness were so well portrayed.   He's very underrated -- it is good to see him getting so much more attention and he is darn funny in Piates 2 and 3.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 11:14 PM

I only have 14 of those movies, either on VHS or DVD. But I ain't done collecting yet. I see a few on the list I want to get.

But not "The Sixth Sense". Very disappointed in that one. Actually in all of M. Knight Shlymahoivenen's films.

A few I'd add: The Field, Jeremiah Johnson, Support Your Local Sheriff, Adventures of Robin Hood, The Committments, Arsenic and Old Lace, O Brother Where Art Thou, Ringu, Local Hero, John & the Missus, Forbidden Planet, Monty Python & The Holy Grail, The Innocents...


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: kendall
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 09:15 AM

I liked Dr, Zhivago because I am a history buff. The main character was a candy ass, and I never did like Omar Shirif.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 10:33 PM

yes 100 times over to The Committments.....


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Cluin
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 10:35 PM

Yes, TRUBRIT. The only example I can think of where the movie was actually better than the book.


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Subject: RE: BS: The 100 greatest movies of all time
From: Riginslinger
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 12:31 AM

There must have been one.


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