BS: How heavy are farts ?

Subject: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: GUEST,Bloater
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:18 AM

Ok, say you are suffering cronic trapped wind;
feeling extremely bloated and uncomfortable.

If you weigh yourself, then manage to release all that troubling wind.

Would you immediately afterwards weigh on the scales again as

less ?

more ?

or exactly the same ?


I suspect there may be some serious science lurking under the surface here..

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:31 AM

This is a very interesting question. As a fart would appear to be lighter than air, you might easily suppose that you would get heavier after farting. But say the fart was actually not a gas when inside you, but was actually dissolved in your body fluids. In which case, you would get lighter as it came out of solution
and was expelled, wouldn't you? OI think we need a pair of very large and very accurate scales.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: GUEST,SPARTICUS
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:36 AM

THE ANSWER MY FRIEND............!

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:57 AM

Should work for anything expelled from the body.

But -- flatulence isn't gases dissolved in the blood, it's pockets of gas trapped in the gut, sort of an X-0-X-0 type of deal. The gas can come from many sources, including mouth breathing and carbonated drinks (that includes beer). It is usually a combination of gases, including CO2 and that's heavier than air (picture the "smoke" coming off of dry ice).

It's not a simple problem. However, if you breathe enough helium, will you float away, squeaking for help?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:01 AM

It depends on the degree of moisture. Wet farts can weigh substantially.

I'll get me coat...

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:10 AM

While we're at it, how heavy are belches, sneezes, and hickups?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: redsnapper
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:12 AM

Some old farts can be quite heavy.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:14 AM

Oh, I thought farts were methane, which is lighter than air. If they are primarily CO2 that's a different thing altogether. Can anyone give a definitive formula for the composition of a standard fart?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:23 AM

Composition of flatus gases

Nitrogen is the primary gas released. Methane and hydrogen, lesser components, are flammable, and so flatus is susceptible to catching fire. Not all humans produce flatus that contains methane. For example, in one study of the feces of nine adults, only five of the samples contained bacteria capable of producing methane.[3] Similar results are found in samples of gas obtained from within the rectum.

The gas released during a flatus event frequently has a foul odor which mainly results from low molecular weight fatty acids such as butyric acid (rancid butter smell) and reduced sulfur compounds such as hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) and carbonyl sulfide that are the result of protein breakdown. The incidence of odoriferous compounds in flatus increases from herbivores, such as cattle, through omnivores to carnivorous species, such as cats or dogs. Flatulence odor can also be caused by the presence of large numbers of microflora bacteria and/or the presence of feces in the rectum.

From Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

WEll if they are mainly nitrogen, with a spot of methane and hydrogen, and traces of heavier stuff, they should be lighter than air overall. Which argues that we get heavier when we rip one off.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:01 AM

The flatus event has one weight before and one after-- what is light and airy to us before the event is oppressively heavy to the recipients, after.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:09 AM

If methane is lighter than air, what killed all those people in the methane pit? I thought it was that methane was HEAVIER than air, which is why it was filling the pit.

Yet the chemistry I remember does say that CH4 should be plenty light... lessee, H=1, C=12, so 1 molecule of CH4 = 12+4=16. On the other hand, 02 = 2*8 = 16 also, so now where are we? And NH3 would be 7+3=10 which is lighter than either CH4 or O2...

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: redsnapper
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:25 AM

You would have less mass:

Mass before = mass of body plus mass of fart
Mass after = mass of of body only

RS

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: redsnapper
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:26 AM

I cannot help noticing this is currently next to the "cabbage" thread.

RS

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: GUEST,Sooz (hard at work)
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:36 AM

You would need a very accurate balance to weigh yourself on (to at least O.001g) and hold your breath for the duration of the fart (so that air gained or lost did not upset the results.)
Of course to ensure precision and reliabilty you would need to perform the experiment several times.
Worth bothering?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:44 AM

these guys could have answered the question if you had asked earlier.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 10:57 AM

minus the dust, they are about as heavy as an equivalent amount of atmospheric gas on Mars.

Most importantly the smell is is exactly the same.

Even should we ever succeed in greening Mars and brng O2 and pressure up to breathable levels, the smell of the HS2 will linger for millenia.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:35 AM

Redsnapper: though the fart has mass(or in this case we are talking about weight), the argument is that it is lighter than air, ie it buoys you up a bit. Therefore, when you release it, your body actually gets heavier. This of course assumes that the fart inside your body is at atmoshperic pressure. If it isn fact compressed, it may in fact be heavier than air of course, in which case the situation is reversed. And if any portion of it is actually dissolved in anything else sloshing about in there, it will be heavier still.
This is not a simple questionb, and needs saome serious research.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:37 AM

Not surprising people have trouble with trapped wind..I mean it stands to reason...if it is lighter than air....it wants to rise as a matter of course. However, gravity is pulling digested food downwards against the flow of the air. Belching makes sense but farting doesn't really. This thread, I have to say, is like a breath of fresh air.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:43 AM

Prime candidate for the Ignobel Prize, if anyone can get round to doing the research and write it up.

Though it occurs to me that it's probably actually been done quite seriously, at least in the case of cows, on account of concerns about global warming:

Move to cut methane emissions by changing cows' diet

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 11:45 AM

Fresh air?? You haven't been near Manitas when he's been drinking Guinness...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: redsnapper
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:14 PM

Dear Greg,

My observation stands, and is valid from a scientific view, as you are applying anthropic bias and an earthbound testing scenario to the argument rather than regarding it in the absolute!

If one was full of farts, so to speak, of course it would decrease ones relative density relative to ones usual surroundings.

But I do agree the matter requires proper scientific investigation and further debate.

Best regards,

RS

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:16 PM

There are many unanswered questions on the subject for researchers to deal with:

When you let one rip, is the damage repairable?
Why is it that the noisy ones are often less smelly, but the silent ones are the real killers?
Is there a foolproof way of telling the dry from the wet ones in advance?
Why is a "rumbler" more satisfying in the presence of piles?
Did La Petomaine exist? Was she a real person? And was she "natural", or pump-assisted (as claimed by the eponymous film with Leonard Rossiter)?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Micca
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:27 PM

Using standard Chemistry notation and Mrzzys Molecular and atomic weights
CH4 =16
CO2=44
Air has an average Molecular mass based on percentage composition of approximately 28
(BTW Mrzzy if you are farting Ammonia you are in a LOT of trouble!! it should be excreted solubilised in urine)
H2S =34
Butyric Acid is 88
Now if you expel approx 25 Centimetres cubed of gas consisting of mostly Air and Co2 the net Molecular Mass will be about 28<35 so if we take the mean as 33

Acording to Avogadros theory 33grams(i mole) of the fart gas occupies 22.4 litres of volume
Calculation gives the mass of 25 mls. of fart gas as 0.036830357142857142857142857142857gms approximately

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:37 PM

Oops - I meant not ammonia but nitrogen gas. N2?

My question about the deaths in the methane pit stands...

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 12:46 PM

"Is there a foolproof way of telling the dry from the wet ones in advance?"

The normal human sphincter, in a normal healthy adult body, is very good at the task of telling the difference between gas, liquid and solid...

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:06 PM

"My fellow Americans, I come to you tonight with a heavy fart."

Lyndon Johnson, 1967

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:19 PM

Doesn't seem to be any methane to the madness.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:26 PM

Lyndon Johnson was pretty well the personification OF a heavy fart, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 01:40 PM

Le Petomane was a real person all right. I've never heard of a female equivalent. I kind of doubt if there was one.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 02:19 PM

Thanks Kevin.
Robin, I think the operative word there is "normal":-)

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:26 PM

McGrath is convinced Le Petomane was a real person. Is this generally accepted...I'm sure I've heard the whole thing was a spoof by the person who wrote the biography. It was cfertainly notable that nobody seemed to have heard of him prior to the book coming out. Are there any contemporary references?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:33 PM

I was taught about him in history class in French school - so I'm pretty sure he was real - but then again, they taught me Avogadro-Ampere's number...

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 03:36 PM

Yup, he was real. Google him, you'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 05:32 PM

Good God. What an incredible story. The French truly have a sensibility all their own.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Micca
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:12 PM

Mrzzy what killed the miners in the pit was probably Carbon Dioxide CO2,( equiv molecular weight of 44) I think Miners call it "choke damp" as opposed to "Fire damp" which I believe is mostly
as follows,
Fire-damp is composed chiefly of methane with varying percentages of other gases. The fire-damp actually given off by coal or other strata has a composition lying between the following approximate limits
Methane from 70 to 98 %
Ethane, propane, etc From 0 to 2 %
Ethylene, acetylene, hydrogen sulphide From 0 to a trace
non flammable components
Carbon Dioxide From 0 to 4%
Nitrogen From 0 to 15%
Oxygen From 0 to a trace
which causes very easily ignited explosive mixtures with air and because of limited air supply underground burns to water and a mixture of Carbon Dioxide and a small proportion of Carbon monoxide is sometimes formed which is Toxic and fatal

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:17 PM

Interesting that this thread is now (or was) next to the 'US Browners' thread...

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:19 PM

Its a bit like willies.

An erect one - you would think had more substance.

But, it does not have the gravitational pull towards the centre of the earth, as a deflated one.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:26 PM

The Straight Dope on Le Petomane

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Crane Driver
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:41 PM

To go back to George's questions:

When you let one rip, is the damage repairable?
Something to do with a stitch in time, I guess.

Why is it that the noisy ones are often less smelly, but the silent ones are the real killers?
The noise level is due to the pressure of the gas. High pressure 'events' are usually caused by ingesting air with food, or consuming fizzy drinks etc - mostly CO2, nitrogen & so on, which don't smell much. Low pressure farts often result from bacterial decay in the gut, and contain organic 'aromatics' and sulphides, which don't smell at all - they stink!

Is there a foolproof way of telling the dry from the wet ones in advance?
I believe the operative term here is 'in advance'. No - life is full of surprises.

Why is a "rumbler" more satisfying in the presence of piles?
Piles of what?

Did La Petomaine exist? Was she a real person? And was she "natural", or pump-assisted (as claimed by the eponymous film with Leonard Rossiter)?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Andrew

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 06:46 PM

Thank you Andrew - I learned a few things today.
By the way, "piles" as in "haemorrhoids"... I think it's something to do with the "rumbler's" frequency in conjunction with the itchiness.

Can't wait to see Vanessa again (she's off on a canalboat trip with friends) - we'll have SO much to talk about!

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 07:46 PM

28 pounds to the cubic yard.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 08:34 PM

' Low pressure farts often result from bacterial decay in the gut, and contain organic 'aromatics' and sulphides, which don't smell at all - they stink!'

Who can see the fart
neither you, nor I
But when the bugger really stinks
Sit on the bog, and try!

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Jul 07 - 09:42 PM

Great lyrics!

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 07:44 AM

Really when a fart produces anything heavy enough to be weighed - it should be reclassified as something else.

That is the motion I place before the committee.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: JennyO
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 08:20 AM

Motion denied!

(well I don't want it)

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 09:01 AM

When someone inquired of the weight of a fart,
I had to think where I could sensibly start.
So much would depend on the vapour one thinks,
But is vapour effective in the way that it stinks?

So I thought I might do a small ex-pe-ri-ment,
I went to the countryside and put up my tent.
To have stayed in the town might have caused some offence,
And the noise of my farts might have spoiled the silence.

I farted all day and I farted all night,
For twenty four hours till a new morning bright.
But wet ones or dry ones they felt much the same,
So experiments would never have gained me much fame.

I have tried again since to establish their weight,
I've spent days at work and nights up late.
But whatever I try, it just always fails,
I think I should get me a new set of scales.

Author ME..
Time NOW.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 09:22 AM

smells traditional to me, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 09:24 AM

Could you put a tune to it Al? Or does it have a tune all of its own..sort of like a ......fart?

Subject: RE: BS: How heavy are farts ?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 07 - 10:19 AM

needs a catchy chorus, something like

Can you tell me Chum?
When a fart flies from your bum
What on earth is the critical mass
Of the gas from out your arse
Tell me matey
is it weighty?
theres no need to be glum
But by some miracle
lets get empirical
When a fart flies from your bum