Starting a Folk Club

Subject: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 04:47 PM

Having organised a Folk Club in the past, I,m keen to start another club. My problem lies with finding a suitable venue. Many of the pubs in my area and beyond where suitable rooms were available, have become restaurants.   
             I would be grateful for any advice on finding venues.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: breezy
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:05 PM

open a restaurant

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: treewind
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:32 PM

Look for something that's not a pub.
Village hall, social club or similar.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:52 PM

A "Folk " club just had its first meeting this week at one of our local pubs.
The guy who is trying to get it started is big time into "Irish" music.
We had a good night with a nice mix of unplugged music ranging from
a lass with a great voice singing unacompanied folk songs,through blues,Irish music ,shee beg shee mor(sorry cant spell)on whistle and guitar,christy More covers,60s and jigs /reels.
Some original songs etc.
The organiser asked when we should next meet,the majority say a month so he has arranged it for next week!
The room was large and bereft of locals.
The pub has had a rep for unpleasentness recently.
We are going to try it a few times and see what happens.
Maybe YOu need to look for a scary pub with a willing new landlord?
I will keep an eye on this thread and see what develops.
I hope you find somewhere suitable soon.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 05:55 PM

click here for samples of chidrens charity CD.
Forgot to mention,I am in Grimsby in the Uk.
We have quite a good range of events to play at in the town and surrounding area.
I think that is one of the things to take into consideration when you go for your venue.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 06:51 PM

Friends: The Pub Tradition has been going on for a long time and has found it's way to Canada in the many English and Irish Pubs. There is however, another choice. The Coffeehouse. Simple to start. Find a Church basement, or the like, add a stage, some mics, and chairs for the audience. And there you have it. The audience in this type of venue comes to listen to your music and not to drink. In this style of Folk Club, the focus is on your songs and performance. These types of venues flourish in North America and have been the breeding ground for many a fine performer. Wish you all the best with your music...
bob

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:07 PM

GUEST guest - I imagine that you are in UK ! Check your local Art Centre - have they got a small room , or even a Bar area you can set up in ? So many pubs have knocked all the dividing wall out in the last few years that very few have a 'Function' room any more !
Though you could try a Pub with a restaurant - Do they have a Non Restaurant night ?

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Gulliver
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 07:57 PM

Try clubs that have a premises. Doesn't matter what kind--most will not be using their premises every night of the week.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: coldjam
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:15 PM

There is a group downstate here in Michigan, that actually meets on Sunday afternoons and plays on the sidewalks of downtown. Course it's a small town and only done in summer...

We used to have a pretty good group that started meeting in homes. Sometimes different ones, but it started with someone with a pretty good sized living room. Sometimes we'd take it to the park.

Church basements really do seem like the easiest, not to mention inexpensive (or, my favorite-free!)And sometimes a seniors center will let you meet on an evening it's not being used, especially if you open it up for the public to come and listen.

I'll be interested in what you come up with!

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:49 PM

Try a working mens club premises.you should be covered forPRS,You will have cheap alcohol,.
If you start a membership scheme.I think you overcome the two in a bar rule[but am not sure].

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: treewind
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:50 AM

The two-in-a-bar exemption was killed off in law three years ago. Where have you been? (in Ireland, perhaps...) and the exemption for mebership schemes evaporated at ther same time. Nor is membership requirement a good way to run a club, especially to start one.

The club premises will need a public entertainment license, but most do because of other events they have there.

Political clubs, working men's clubs, ex-forces social clubs are all worth investigating.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST,Warwick Slade
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:23 AM

Listen to treewind. We are currently meeting in a British Legion Club with a seperate room and club priced beer. We are made most welcome and have introduce folk to some non believers.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:25 AM

Great news that you're thinking of starting a club. This is one of the reasons we set up the folk club organisers' email group - to help new starters. Why not join us?

We have 100 plus experienced people and a website with hundreds of hints and tips and ideas.

To join the group send an email saying who you are to

[e-mail]

You'll get an email saying you're in once we've clicked you through.

Then to post just send an email to

[e-mail]

or reply to one of the emails, and it'll go to everyone in the group. Or you can read the messages (and ideas database) and post on the web:

1) Go to www.yahoogroups.com

2) Sign up if you are not already registered, or sign in if you are

3) go to _my groups_

4) click on the relevant group (folkclubs)

5) to see the group's archived messages from the frame on the left hand side
click _messages_

6) you can read and reply to messages via the yahoogroups website

You can also change your message status.

Click on Edit Membership... (witch is top left above the 'folk clubs' banner)

You can choose

1) Emails as they are sent

2) Just a Daily Digest, which lets you see all message by email, but limits the amount of email you receive.

3) Special Notices only - (important email notices from the group moderators).

4) Or you can choose Web Only, in which you only read and post messages on the web, and don't see any emails at all.

Cheers

Tom

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:46 AM

Treewind,I think Members and nonmembers is a very goodway to run a club,although it requires a little extra paperwork,.
the added incentive of joining,the more times you get a reduction off your entrance fee,the more times you visit the club in a given year,encouraging people to return to the club.
I ran folk clubs for many years and found it,worked well.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:59 PM

the other really important advantage of using a social/working mens/british legion club,is that you are not at the mercy of newor constantly changing pub managers/landlords.which can be a real problem.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 06:45 PM

Why do you need a separate room and why do you have to be a club?
why not just go and sing/play?

Gerry

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:22 PM

Club Organisers E Mail group looks VERY useful !!
Banjo Flower - IF you are in a public bar , how do you get money to pay a professional (OR Semi professionaol) Guest Artist ? OK For a Non Paying Singaround or session though !!

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 06:26 AM

Tom - Is your egroup specifically British?

Dick and I run a monthly song circle and occasional house concerts in our house. (US song circles are most often, but not always, in people's houses.) One thing I would like to see is a network of people who have house concerts, so a touring performer can be set up with a series of concerts between the bigger gigs. Since we are in NJ, we are interested in the Atlantic seaboard, where there are plenty of venues. I was attempting to do this with my pair of permathreads: Venues for Folk Performers and Who is touring Where/When, but they have not been used enough to be useful.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST, Tom Bliss
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 07:20 AM

Hi Susan

We have a couple of very welcome non-uk members because all experience is useful, but it has to be said that we started the group in the hope of helping to resolve some of the issues facing uk clubs today, so that's mainly what we're about.

The whole issue of house concerts is complex over here, due to the licencing laws. There are a couple of people doing it (legally, I think), and it's certainly a topic that's often raised on one forum or another.

Cheers

Tom

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 08:32 AM

Leadfingers,very few professional singers I'm interested in seeing
Been there, heard him/her, Bought the t-shirt.
Main interest these days is your second option
I.E Non Paying Singarounds or sessions & playing for Ceilidhs

Gerry

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 08:51 AM

a seperate club room is desirable,it means order can be maintained,so that a full spectrum of songs,including quiet and reflctive songs can be enjoyed,without interfering with those people in the pub who have no interest in music, and wish to drink, talk loudly etc.
another advantage of membership is that it gives you a list of adresses of interested people that you can email or writ to let them know future happenings.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 09:11 AM

Captain Birdseye
"a full spectrum of songs,including quiet and reflctive songs can be enjoyed"

Never had a problem with this in a Non Paying Singaround or session

gerry

BTW I respect your point of view as you seem to be a professional Musician/singer and have a vested interest in having clubs that charge admission and book guests whereas I am only an enthusiastic amateur

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 09:39 AM

Have you ever tried to sing a quiet reflective song in a noisy bar full of people who came to talk to eachother, Gerry? It's really no fun at all, whether you're amateur or professional!

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 09:50 AM

Horses for courses Tom choose your material to suit the occasion
and if you're good enough they'll listen

Gerry

Btw I am not trying to imply that you are not good enough
just making a stand against the organisers that want to isolate the music and make it exclusive and then complain that no one attends their clubs

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 10:32 AM

I'm right with you about not making folk music exclusive, but most pubs these days are large, and they go round corners too. You simply can't keep telling scores of people who just went out for a drink, (and couldn't even hear the singer properly if they did want to listen because they're too far away), to keep shutting up every ten minutes.

Speech hubbub is LOUD. I remember in the days when I still did pub gigs having to keep turning up my vocal monitor and thinking it was because of the drummer hitting too hard. I eventually realised it was the punters yakking - and the louder we went, the louder they yakked! (And as some here know I'm no shrinking violet in the vocal department).

Yes, you can bellow the odd song (unplugged) at a crowded room, but you don't want to do it very often as it's pretty unrewarding. It's tough on the throat and there's no chance of any subtlety. And it needs to be one they know already because very few will hear all the words.

Me, I'm all for making a stand against the idea that folk music is just about getting people to look at you. I think the songs deserve a space where people will have a chance to show them (and the singer) proper respect.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 10:52 AM

I sort of agree with you Tom. Still, I sometimes wish some folksingers had had your experience of doing the wallpaper gigs. Whereas, some folksingers seem to have been lucky enough to have had the world of folkmusic fall at their feet - almost from the word go.

Firstly - it would give them some idea of the compliment that a listening audience is paying them.

Secondly, it would teach them something about the nature of the music, and where it comes from - much of it was not always this 'greenhouse' raised plant, and grew up in quite arrid soil spiritually. It also gives some idea of the passionate need to create that fired the original artists.

Thirdly I think it would English folkmusic a little more bollocks - make it a little less wordy and more intent on touching the hearts of everyone in the room - rather than fitting the stereotype of 'a folksong'.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 11:11 AM

It sounds like there is more than one vision of what you are trying to do:
1) provide background music to a group of people who did not come to hear you and may not be interested
2) providing a venue for folkies to share music
These are rather different. I would think that each group would need to decide what it is trying to do. Therefore when starting a new folk club, and I am not entirely sure what that term really means in the UK, the initiator(s) would need to decide the purpose of the club before searching for a venue.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM

Whatever you do don't tell the landlord/owner it's a going to be a "folk" club.
Call it an open acoustic music session, or something like.
Give yourself half a chance.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 11:16 AM

wee little drummer ,English folk clubs book contemporary songwriters,entertainers, american traditional, blues,occasionally bluegrass, every artist within the folkscene deserves respect,and deserves to be listened to.It is most soul destroying,to be treated as wallpaper music.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 11:32 AM

all i'm saying is that some artists - Robert Johnson and leadbelly spring to mind immediately - found techniques in those rough houses that they incorporated into their more serious compositions. There is stuff to be learned out there - if you're the sort of person who does learn, and if you are approach your work with any seriousness - you are perpetually hungry to learn.

I was amazed the first evening I was in Spain. this guitarist in a bar played what I thought was 'flamenco' but it turned out was Catalan music - anyway amazing stuff! after a while he calmly put his guitar in its case, put on an apron and went to work frying the chips in a deep fat fryer.

You see this guy was playing - not just for advancement or status of some kind, or even recognition from some dumb English tourists - but because his life was better than being someone who didn't play.

Bottom line - I think we do it cos its a neurotic alternative to being an ordinary human being. So do it where you can - even in folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Tom,Dick&WLD for putting your side of the discussion without letting it develope into a bitter slanging match I,m now leaving this thread because I think I've taken my side as far as I want to

Thanks again

Gerry

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 04:19 PM

Thanks for all your advice, I,ll keep you imformed of progress. I only used Pubs as an example as I used to run a Folk Club many years ago at a local Pub. The trend in my area of the UK was for Folk Clubs to have access to a BAR.
                You,ve given me some good ideas and alternatives to Pubs as venues. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Nick
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 08:42 AM

When we got removed from Sam Smith's pubs about 2+1/2 years ago I went through the same process and originally came up with the same answer - ie that all the pubs that have rooms were using them for food.

A little perseverance though found me 3 pubs that would have us - two of which served food. One was big enough to do both and we did go there for a while and they actually stop serving food anyway by about 9pm. Where we have ended up though is at a pub which at first sight had little going for it. It has no separate room so we are right at the heart of the pub. It had practically no customers. It is situated outside what is a very small village and the nearest major place (York) is 10 miles away. On the night when we could go they had a dominoes team every other week - and dominoes and folk music don't mix well. Perhaps luckily the dominoes team folded.

The lack of custom (2-5 customers a night is about the norm during the week) has been a bonus in that we have grown his business (so he is happy) and we have to a certain extent been able to shape things to suit ourselves to an extent. The other side of things has been having a very supportive landlord (and wonderful wife) who treats us really well

We now regularly have 25-30 people each week and occasionally a lot more (about 50 a couple of weeks ago some who had travelled 40-50 miles to visit). The local people who come come because they know we are there rather than us having to battle them (it happened a bit at first as often happens in 'local' pubs where the customers often believe it is their's). At the heart of what we do (mixed singaround - session) is a core of about 8 of us who go pretty much every week and that is what keeps us going come rain come shine - if noone else came we would still enjoy ourselves.

A bit like Tim's post above, sometimes the least likely place may well work out. There may well be a suitable less obvious place somewhere closish by.

The last time I saw Tom Bliss perform was at the White Hart at Mickleby which is another interesting little venue that survives in spite of the fact it is in the middle of nowhere with no real locals to speak of. That one runs again off a core of people; the fact that there will always be someone there; the reputation of the family who run it.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Dave Masterson
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 06:59 AM

"Bottom line - I think we do it cos its a neurotic alternative to being an ordinary human being." - Ouch! The truth often hurts. Still, when I look around me I'm rather glad I'm partial to a little alternative neuroticism.

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 07:11 AM

Please go here and have a listen.
Hope no one will mind
But if you want to help National Childrens Home and Viking Radios " For The Kids Appeal*
Click on the link for a listen to sample of the charity CD.
Have a great Folking time and spare a fiver for the kiddy winkles.
Cheers
Tim

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: redsnapper
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 07:20 AM

An additional thought... I've been to a few folk clubs held at sports clubs and they often have suitable facilities and reasonably-priced drinks too with the stability of not having landlords, managers, etc. that change too often.

RS

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 02:14 PM

Bloody right Dave, who wants to be normal and well adjusted...?

Subject: RE: Starting a Folk Club
From: Carol
Date: 17 Jul 07 - 03:53 PM

I think there must be nothing more 'soul destroying' than being the background music in a pub, it seems to me the louder you make the music, the louder people talk so the only reason that I can think the performers carry on in those circumstances is for the money/beer they are paid.
However I was at a singaround on Friday evening which was part of a private festival and was very disappointed to find someone right behind me talking all the way through my singing of Home Lads Home. He was the only person at the bar and someone even got up and told/asked him to be quiet but that had much he still carried on talking.
When I discovered who it was at the end of the song I told him he should know better and said that next time he was singing I was going to talk loudly to which he replied he wouldn't mind as he was used to singing in noisy pubs!!
The fact that we weren't in a noisy pub but in a quiet room just didn't seem to make any difference to him, perhaps because I think he sings in a group sometimes. It would to me as if I get into the situation of trying to sing in a noisy pub I wouldn't be singing Home Lads Home but a loud song.
My point is that if people who sing themselves and actually even run a singers' weekend can't/won't 'respect the singer' then how can you expect Joe Public to?
Find a room, advertise a lot and them people will come if they want to listen. It wouldn't be anywhere near DN14 I suppose??