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BS: Fox Eat Cat?

wysiwyg 13 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jul 07 - 08:39 PM
Bee 13 Jul 07 - 08:48 PM
Rapparee 13 Jul 07 - 09:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Jul 07 - 09:36 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 13 Jul 07 - 09:55 PM
Ebbie 13 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM
Rapparee 13 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM
Bee 13 Jul 07 - 10:33 PM
rangeroger 13 Jul 07 - 10:43 PM
GUEST,TIA 13 Jul 07 - 11:02 PM
wysiwyg 13 Jul 07 - 11:25 PM
wysiwyg 14 Jul 07 - 12:05 AM
Liz the Squeak 14 Jul 07 - 02:48 AM
Darowyn 14 Jul 07 - 03:30 AM
Liz the Squeak 14 Jul 07 - 03:39 AM
My guru always said 14 Jul 07 - 04:57 AM
Dave Hanson 14 Jul 07 - 07:20 AM
alanabit 14 Jul 07 - 08:36 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jul 07 - 09:24 AM
wysiwyg 14 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM
ranger1 14 Jul 07 - 09:34 AM
Bee 14 Jul 07 - 10:00 AM
bassen 14 Jul 07 - 10:27 AM
Becca72 14 Jul 07 - 11:34 AM
3refs 14 Jul 07 - 11:53 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jul 07 - 12:23 PM
Gurney 14 Jul 07 - 10:16 PM
Greg B 14 Jul 07 - 10:28 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM
Greg B 14 Jul 07 - 11:01 PM
pdq 14 Jul 07 - 11:16 PM
Greg B 14 Jul 07 - 11:20 PM
GUEST 14 Jul 07 - 11:54 PM
GUEST,Peter Woodruff 15 Jul 07 - 12:13 AM
Cluin 15 Jul 07 - 02:21 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Jul 07 - 02:46 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Jul 07 - 03:19 AM
Ruth Archer 15 Jul 07 - 04:30 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Jul 07 - 04:55 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Jul 07 - 05:05 AM
terrier 15 Jul 07 - 05:44 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Jul 07 - 06:12 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM
Richard Bridge 15 Jul 07 - 11:47 AM
Gurney 15 Jul 07 - 09:49 PM
GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged 16 Jul 07 - 03:46 AM

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Subject: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:22 PM

One mystery solved begets another.

Solved: WHO is leaving those furry rabbit tails on our back porch?

Foxie Loxie, that's who. Dragged a victim off to the corn crib just now, as Hardi was stepping out back.... must be a momma, too hungry to drop prey and hide, so he saw it.

Normally our dormant-farm property is haven to surplus feral cats (another farmer is letting them breed up the road). No cats this past two years.

Is this why? If so, are the feral cats getting et, or is it just that there's too much competition for prey?

NEW MYSTERY (help!): Will our house-only cats be eaten if they get out loose when our house-sitter's here? Or do fox tend to leave the kitties alone?


It's been a banner year for bunnies. Last year, too-- so there are PLENTY here to keep a fox family fed full. We're happy to have the fox here. I'm just worried about the cats.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:39 PM

I think there is very lottle evidence that foxes try to eat cats. Foxes aren't stupid. There are better things to eat that haven't got the teeth cats and fighting ability of cats. Especially feral cats.

But sensible cats might well prefer to steer clear of foxes anyway, and I suspect that's what's happening in your case.

Here's a quote from this page about urban foxes - "Foxes eat fruit, worms, insects, small mammals and scavenged food. There are cases of cats being attacked, although this is extremely rare. Both foxes and cats are active at night and meetings are probably a nightly occurrence - generally the fox is nervous of the cat." (Of course these are English foxes - I'm not sure if yours woudl eb the same species.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Bee
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 08:48 PM

Not so rare in certain places, at certain times. Hungry foxes will kill and eat house cats. There was a problem with foxes killing kitties in part of Cape Breton a few years ago: lotsa foxes, not many bunnies. Maybe our foxes are tougher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:30 PM

I suspect that a fox will eat whatever it can catch and kill without too much trouble. Therefore cats which would fight would be less likely to become prey.

Be wary of the foxes, though. They can and do serve as one of the reservoirs for rabies, and if one lets you approach it and/or seems sick, DON'T! Call the Animal Control folks or the cops with the info. Rabies is NOTHING to fool with!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:36 PM

Well that's one thing we don't have to worry about with our foxes here in the UK. Touch wood.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 09:55 PM

Foxes don't generally eat cats. The coyotes get 'em first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM

That's what I was going to say, BWL. Coyotes in Oregon and California- even in the hearts of cities - are harvesting cats.

My sister in law's cat- a tough, very savvy, not to say mean cat lived happily, if grumpily, for 10 years mostly on her own. A cat that had few friends and came into the house only for top ups.

She met her demise one night when she had almost made it into the house.

This was in Vancouver, Washington.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:01 PM

Actually, around here the mountain lions get 'em first.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Bee
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:33 PM

Coyotes are common (and extra large) cat-eaters in Nova Scotia, but it was an overpopulation of foxes eatin' kitties in part of CB, as I mentioned above. Trust me: one Cape Bretoner might mistake a fox for a coyote, but a bunch of Cape Bretoners ain't that stupid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: rangeroger
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 10:43 PM

When my parents still lived in their house in Chula Vista,Calif.,they noticed something had made a den under the decking of the back yard hot tub. They were never able to see the animal until my brother-in-law placed a have-a heart animal trap in the back yard baited with bbq chicken pieces.
Lo and behold the next morning, they had a female red fox in the trap. They let it go and did nothing about it. Then the next door neighbor saw it jump the block dividing wall and called animal control and said it was after her cat.
They never caught it as they were also using Have-a heart traps and once burned twice shy. However, no cats were reported missing in the neighborhood.
rr
Ps. Ask Amos about Chula Vista.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:02 PM

Typically, they grab a grey goose by the neck and throw a duck across their back... and the little ones chew on the bones-o.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 13 Jul 07 - 11:25 PM

I already know about codotes, and thanks to you all I know more about foxes. She's safe as long as Steve Martin doesn't come by with barbecue.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:05 AM

Q: How can I protect my pets from attack by foxes?

A: Foxes don't normally attack domestic pets, and accounts of dogs or cats being attacked by foxes are rare.   Indeed, in one instance a fox was documented to raise a litter of young under the floorboards of a house with a cat and a dog.   The fox would regularly walk past the cat and dog on her way to and from the disused room, and neither of the pets seemed unduly concerned or attempted to intervene.

Forgot where I got that one!

Codote got my brain. (family word)

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 02:48 AM

I suppose a nest of days old kittens if found by a fox would be considered fair game and a goodly sized meal, but only if there was no mother cat around to see it off.

Driving home late one night (or should that be early one morning) I slowed to avoid a full sized fox that came bolting out of a garden, closely followed by a cat about half its size. Judging by the speed of the fox and the ferocity of the cat, I'd say the fox was losing big time.

Your fox may be eating tiny kittens hence no feral cats, he may be eating all their prey (although if there are enough rabbits, there's not much need for a fox to eat mice, rabbits are a better sized meal and not so hard to catch), or it may just be that your neighbour up the road has come to his senses and neutered the tomcats.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Darowyn
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 03:30 AM

A few years ago we lived in a house where there was a stream at the end of the garden. At the time we had four cats who formed a loose tribe under the supervision of the big matriarch, but mostly drifted about doing their own thing. They were the most domesticated,suburban, bourgois set of creatures you could ever meet.
One early morning went down the garden and three of them were standing, literally shoulder to shoulder on top of the stream bank, glaring across the water, Parkin, the matriarch, was by the side of the stream in full battle mode, making that noise that is the cat equivalent of "Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!"
Behind her, were a duck and six ducklings.
On the other side of the stream was a big, very nervous looking fox, which dashed away when it saw me.
The cats treated the ducks that nested on the bank as part of the household, so they never touched them. You would even find Charlie, the smallest cat, curled up by the stream with the ducklings all around him.
I've never seen cats co-operate to face down an intruder before, andcthe idea of them defending other domestic animals is amazing to me.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 03:39 AM

I nearly said that the fox was hareing out of the garden, but then realised how silly that sounded. Hares run like that to get away from foxes (and hounds, but that's just a different shaped fox).

Cats are very territorial and once something in that territory has been accepted as part of the 'pride', they'll defend it tooth and wossname.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: My guru always said
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 04:57 AM

What a lovely story Dave, thanks!

There are many foxes (including at least 4 hungry growing cubs at the moment) around our garden and they never bothered our cat when he was alive. They were wary of each other but without animosity or drooling and would often be seem sunbathing on the same lawns. No instances of any neighbours cats (all domestic) going missing except when they get locked into garages & sheds.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 07:20 AM

In a film about urban foxes in Bristol [ UK ] a few years ago, they filmed one of the foxes meeting a cat during the night, the the cat just stood there looking arrogant, so the fox turned around and walked away.

eric


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: alanabit
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 08:36 AM

Liz, I find it very easy to believe that a fierce cat would see off a fox. A cat's body is designed as a fighting machine, which is the envy of every martial arts master in the world! They have astonishing agility, speed, balance and acceleration.
What I find less easy to believe is that rabbits make easy dinners for foxes. I once watched a fox pursue three different rabbits, one after the other. They all evaded him with near contemptuous ease. Rabbits just move too fast over a short distance. Of course, if the fox can get his jaws on one, it's rabbit pie. The rabbit would have to make a very stupid mistake for that to happen. The studies I have read conclude that it happens, but it is rare.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 09:24 AM

"Trust me: one Cape Bretoner might mistake a fox for a coyote, but a bunch of Cape Bretoners ain't that stupid."

So they sit around and watch? "No, that ain't a coyote eating that cat over there, it's a fox..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

Well, just in terms of visible results (not counting those who left no remains on our porch), it's:

Fox 3
Rabbits 0.

The posts here mostly confirm what we hoped, especially about the feral kittens. Not that I want them eaten. But there was one small adult tomcat, placed with us by friends, that disappeared awhile back. He had been quite a ferocious fighter. Now I think he simply sought a better territory, not that a fox got him.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: ranger1
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 09:34 AM

Yes, North American foxes do eat cats. They are often the culprits when fishers get the blame. Great horned owls also find kitty cat quite tasty.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Bee
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:00 AM

Thanks for backin' me nature knowin', ranger1.

And, McGrath.... gits borin' in the boonies, bytimes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: bassen
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:27 AM

Foxes take cats frequently here in Norway. They don't always succeed.    Our mean old farmyard tabby came home several times with fox fur in its claws (maybe HE was hunting THEM!?). Finally, he didn't come home. I've seen a fox walking down an early morning street with a dead cat dangling from its mouth in the town where I live in Norway. On the whole I would assume they mostly get old, sick and young cats, but the common assumption when ANY cat goes missing in the country is that "Mikkel" (fox's nickname) got him/her.
I once watched a fox work its way down a cliff to the spot where sea gulls were nesting, with a veritable cloud of angry gulls above it: swarming, diving, pecking,shitting, spewing gall and just generally raising holy hell in that skull splitting way of theirs. The fox finally reached a nest, grabbed one egg in its mouth and made his way up the cliff again, gulls following. Maybe foxes here just like challenging meals?

Bassen


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Becca72
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:34 AM

drifting a little....but this is yet another reason to keep kitty inside!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: 3refs
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:53 AM

Last night at the old train station in Orillia, Ontario I watched a rather raggedy fox trot across the parking lot with a cat in it's mouth.
Another time on a golf course in Coldwater a cat was chasing butterflies in the rough. Moments later it was dinner for a fox.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 12:23 PM

Urban foxes do better with dustbins - and people sort of adoptingthem as their fox, and feeding them.

Here's a version of Daddy Fox song I once wrote about urban foxes:

Old Daddy Fox went out one night,
He crossed the road to a town so bright,
He spied a bin and he laughed with delight,
"I'm glad that I came to this town oh, town oh, town oh,
He spied a bin and he laughed with delight,
"I'm glad that I came to this town oh.

He opened the bin and he searched around,
And a tasty curry he quickly found,
And a half-of a chicken weighed a couple of pounds,
"Oh this is a mighty fine town oh..."

Old Mother Flipper Flopper climbed out of bed,
And out of the window she stuck her head,
Crying "John, John, there's a fox to be fed,
The fox who's come to the town oh."

So John came down and he opened up a tin,
And he gave him the meat that was within,
Saying "We can't have our Foxie a-getting too thin -
He's the best fox in this town oh."

Daddy Fox went home with a bag full of grub,
"Therell be some for the wife, there'll be some for the cub,
Then I think I'll go out for a stroll down the pub –
Yes, for sure it's a mighty fine town oh."

Old Daddy Fox and his cubs and his wife,
Ate up that food without any strife,
And they never had such a supper in their life,
And the little ones chewed on the bones oh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Gurney
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:16 PM

Yes they do, but mostly not strong, mature cats. Foxes have more sense than to tackle something that will surely mess them up, even if they finally kill it. Predators survive by picking off weaker prey, and staying healthy.
I read of a hungry fox that tackled a small dog, and was beaten off when the dog's pal, a siamese cat, joined in.
Have you ever seen the length of the fangs on a siamese cat?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:28 PM

Get about 8 dogs.

I've heard a good reference on ones named Dido, Bendigo, Gentry,
Traveler, Countess, Rover, Bonnie Lass and Jover, though unreliable
reports say one is gone AWOL.

Of course, this may be a situation of sending a spider to catch
the fly, and may not prove economic in the end.

Perhaps you'll die.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM

Through my years of watching cop programmes on the tv, I think I can tell you are in this instance looking for a psychopathic serial killer.

Whilst I am not actually a trained profiler, I would venture the opinion that you are looking for a red headed, quadraped - sharp featured, and with nocturnal habits.

further than its difficult to say, without seeing the PM.

Nevertheless you might put out an APB, approach with caution - and advise local people to be extra careful with chickens. These are the preferred victims. If you are a chicken - don't take no chances - better safe than sorry.

Remember, its a jungle out there.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:01 PM

Nocturnal?

Here on the PA/NJ border, we regularly see foxen in broad
daylight.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: pdq
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:16 PM

Here is our local fox...

    (the big meanie)


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Greg B
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:20 PM

Yeah, he looks so sweet in the photo.

Just like the house cat that'll tear your throat out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 07 - 11:54 PM

"Typically, they grab a grey goose by the neck and throw a duck across their back... and the little ones chew on the bones-o."

I had heard that song last year, and have been trying to find out what it is. Is it called "Daddy Fox?"

Maybe I can turn this into a lyrics request?

Up my way, in the Northern Adirondacks, we have been going in cycles with the foxies lately. If there are coyotes about, we will not see foxes around at all. If the coast is clear, than Ole Foxy is pretty common. I have heard of them taking cats, but more than likely it is the yotes. Around here, we have to worry about the fisher cats and owls as well.

All that, and my neighbors SWEAR they saw a cougar last summer up on the ridge behind our place. There are more and more reports of that around. They would most assuredly take a cat.

My little cat, Littlehead, got et up two summers ago. She was just about 30 yards from the cabin, and we never saw her again, except for some tufts of fur. The yoties had been yowling up a storm for a few days before, and I think it was them.

Phil Garringer


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: GUEST,Peter Woodruff
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 12:13 AM

Fox do eat cats. I was returning from work one afternoon and half way up my road I saw the remains of a cat's hind end in the road. A little further up the road I encountered a fox with the cat's front end in its jaws.

Peter


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Cluin
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 02:21 AM

Could have been scavenging roadkill?


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 02:46 AM

I think its usually called the The Fox. Daddy Fox is the one where there is the line - 'up jumped John ringing of the bell' - you don't hear either version much nowadays. i think we OD-ed on them in the 1960's.

I might be wrong in my memory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 03:19 AM

I remember being forced to sing foxhunting songs in my early school days, it was part of the revival of 'Merrie olde England' that sort of crept into fashion. Is it any wonder I became a hunt saboteur. These days, after the ban on fox hunting, they're becoming ostrichised as glorifying animal cruelty.

Foxes are omnivorous, they will eat anything including slugs, rats, mice, berries, fruit, KFC and other roadkill. They're like little red furry dustbins (trashcans).

They're also supposed to be nocturnal - but crepuscular would be a better description. They're opportunists though, if there is food about, they'll go for it.

Because foxes are becoming more urbanised, they're losing their fear of humans, which is why you'll often see them in the daytime. Feeding foxes also discourages a fear of humans, so it's best not to.

This is mostly about Vulpes vulpes, the British red fox, but it also applies to the Swift or Kit fox (Vulpes velox) found in the US.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 04:30 AM

we had a little farm cat who was a scrawny streak of nothing - she became famous in the village for chasing off foxes three times her size.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 04:55 AM

"ostrichised" - I don't believe a woman of your alleged IQ can't spell "ostracised", so what a lovely coinage - I assume it refers to putting one's head in the sand and being excluded from polite society all at the same time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 05:05 AM

Yes Richard.... it's been 'ostrichised' in our family for years - I didn't realise I'd done that til I read it after posting!

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: terrier
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 05:44 AM

On a nature programme on TV some years ago, there was a fox, stalking rabbits. One of the rabbits saw the fox and sat bolt upright and glared at the fox, the fox backed off and gave up. The point was that a fox won't go for prey if it thinks it is going to have to fight for it. Similarly, a few years back, I watched a cat stalk a young Barn Owl that was perched on a fence. Instead of flying off, the owl turned to face the cat and spread it's wings high and wide and as the cat moved position, so the owl turned always to face the cat full on. This went on for several minutes until the cat gave up and walked away.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 06:12 AM

Peter, it coud have n been roadkill that the fox bit in half.

I used to have a little nephew who wondered who would win a fight between a shark and a lion. The unlikely nature of the two species meeting didn't seem to bother him.

Mind you. sharks used to swim into his bedroom at night when his Mum turned out the lights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 11:12 AM

I reckon the shark would win.. lions are lazy buggers and will only hunt when necessary. Sharks are the dustbins of the sea and will eat anything, everything and any time.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 11:47 AM

In water - shark.

On land, lion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: Gurney
Date: 15 Jul 07 - 09:49 PM

Liz? KFC and OTHER roadkill????



That's more than I needed to know about KFC!


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Subject: RE: BS: Fox Eat Cat?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged
Date: 16 Jul 07 - 03:46 AM

Of cats

A friend of mine had an ancient female cat.
Arriving home one day he was met by a neighbour who apologised and told him that her rotteweiler had attacked his cat.
Fearing the worst he turned the corner to his cottage to find his cat sitting on the doorstep grooming herself, unhurt.
The dogs face was a mass of scratches and gouges and had to pay a visit to the vet.
My friend told me he has never felt so proud, particularly as the cat was so ancient.
Unfortunately, she passed away (due to age) about 10 months later.


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