folk on radio 4 now

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Marje
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:27 AM

I think what I find hard to take about Cara is that baby-girl voice, which becomes more incongruous now that she's a mother in her 30s. Yes, she has attracted some younger people to listen to traditional music, but some of the girls think that's the way you have to sing to sound Irish, and copy her.

I don't object to the way she uses ornamentation, but what didn't come over in the interview was that ornamentation is largely an alternative to accompaniment, as it helps to put the notes into some sort of harmonic context as the melody goes along. Once you have a guitar giving the chords, or a full-blown band bashing away, as happened in most of the songs we heard, the sean-nos style of singing is inappropriate. There's no point in attempting much ornamentation then, as the noise of the accompaniment drowns out the subtlety of the pitch inflexions and prevents any freedom of rhythm in the delivery of the song.


Marje

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 08:10 AM

Thanks for that........I did know about the twins. She can appear where she likes of course and good luck to her.

They seem to run in the Lakeman family. Sean's partner Kathryn has just given birth to Lilly and Poppy.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: KeithofChester
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 07:05 AM

Seems to me it is a long time since she topped the bill at a festival.

The twins Cara gave birth to half-way through her last tour might just be something to do with that. Of course it all depends on which festivals you go to. She doesn't tend to be at the really "traddie" ones. I think Cara played Beautiful Days, Solfest, Rythm, Glastonbury and Cambridge last year. I pass where on the bill she was.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Noreen
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 06:03 AM

Listen to her and make up your own mind: Direct link to Cara Dillon - listen again

I don't think that winning an All Ireland at the age of 14 proves a great deal either, Captain B, except that she was being brought up in the tradition.

I think she is qualified as I have heard her sing. There are many others equally or more qualified, of course, but as she is pretty to look at and pleasant to listen to for those who aren't interested in vocal technique or traditional style, she is going to be booked for more popular events- it is the way of the world.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 04:20 AM

I agree with Dick - I have heard her singing though it was a year or two ago. Seems to me it is a long time since she topped the bill at a festival.

I heard the most wonderful singer I have heard in a long time last week and she stopped a room full of people with the beauty of her voice. But at 16 and I would doubt at that age she is the finished article. (And she has won competitions).

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 03:56 AM

I have never heard Ms Dillon,so am not qualified to judge,her singing.
I am not convinced that winning an all Ireland at the age of 14 is suitable qualification.
although I think competitions have their uses for children as a focus,I am not sure how seriously they should be taken as a judgement of how good someone is,you are only the best of those who have entered,as we dont know the standard of the other competitors,its a false criteria.
winning at the age14 of does not give us an idea of whether MsDillon has matured as a singer.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 02:51 PM

I didn't miscount anything, Diane, I understood that you were saying that she is qualified in Irish traditional singing, and I was agreeing with you there.

Irish traditional singing does include a fair amount of ornamentation, though styles from different areas of Ireland differ. I would not say that Cara goes overboard on her ornamentaion.

If you do not like her style of singing that is fine, but there is no need to ridicule either the singer or the style.

>...we're talking about a workshop for WOMAD here, not a 'mess around at Cambridge for beginners'. And your point is what? That Cara is not qualified? But you stated above that she is, and as she is wading knee-deep in grace notes you obviously agree that she has the technique to contribute to a workshop on vocal tecnniques.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 02:28 PM

. . . oh and Noreen, did you not miscount the negatives?

I said It's not as though she's not qualified . . .

. . . meaning wading knee-deep in grace notes.

Oh, (and Vulgar Fraction too), we're taking about a workshop for WOMAD here, not a 'mess around at Cambridge for beginners'.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 02:25 PM

I love Chartwell DuTiro. Wonderful mbira player, and a lovely man.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,vulgar fraction
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 02:19 PM

I'm not sure Cara Dillon deserves the pasting she's getting here - it's obvious that she's not got the support of much of mudcat but she's in a position where she may bring younger people into folk music and lead them into a journey where they DO discover artists more rooted in the 'tradition'.

I'm no apologist for Dillon as I find her albums and arrangements a little bland, but sometimes the vitriol that comes out on here is not needed (unless you're talking about Mike Harding, which is obviously allowed!).

Seriously though, the joining in and ganging up does get a little petty sometimes and we'd all be better keeping our own council rather than being mean just because we can.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 02:14 PM

Didn't say she won it with Oige but while she was (I think) still singing with them, just to date it.
I did actually know this competition is for soloists.

Yes, Ms Dillon knows how to do ornamentation and doesn't she just use it as much as possible.

Point is, there are many who do it better.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 01:57 PM

>It's not as is she's not qualified on paper to do this, having once won an All-Ireland singing trophy (I think when she was in a band called Oige...

No Diane, there aren't any All-Ireland singing competitions for bands; she won the All-Ireland at the age of 14 for singing solo, unaccompanied ballads.

>The point of his Woman's Hour promo was, apparently (and scarily) that Ms Dillon is doing a WOMAD workshop on 'How To Sing Oirish'

Again no, Diane, Cara is taking part in a workshop on vocal techniques, for which she is well qualified - her use of ornamentation is good.

From www.digitaldeli.co.uk/news-music-womadsummerschool :

Striking A Chord: A vibrant introduction to the myriad of vocal techniques from Zimbabwe, Cameroon and the British Isles with Coco Mbassi (Cameroon), Cara Dillon (Ireland), Chartwell Dutiro (Zimbabwe) and Kirsty Martin (UK).

Sounds very interesting to me.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Marje
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 12:41 PM

Have now listened to the end of the Rosie Stewart webcast. It's odd that when she got Alan Bell's "When First We Met" (aka "So Here's to You") from Frank Harte, she took it for an English traditional song and doesn't know its true origin. I'd have thought Frank would take care to get his attributions right, but maybe he was misinformed too.
Anyway, it was a lovely set.

Marje

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:40 AM

who and when for the future music features on Women's hour?

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Diva
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:19 AM

Cara Dillon in her 30's.....I must be getting old......I remember she was booked once for Girvan Festival but couldn't come because she had to do her O grades!!!!!! Now the idea of the late Margaret Barry on Womens Hour is wonderful

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:03 AM

Thank you Diane for the link.
I have been suffering from Rosie Stewart-deficiency ever since the National folk Festival ceased.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Marje
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:46 AM

Thanks for the Rosie Stewart link, Diane, I'm listening to it now as I type. Great stuff. By comparison, it makes Cara Dillon sound like a ten-year-old in a school concert.

There was nothing in the Woman's Hour broadcast that caused me to revise my opinion of CD as a mediocre performer. She relied too much on accompaniment, IMO, for songs that would sound better without it - or would if the singing was right. And "She Moved..." is such a hackneyed choice, she offered us nothing fresh to listen to.

And Tootler, of course you're right (well, I agree with you, anyway) - Eliza C has a ten-times-better voice than CD, there's no comparison. She can tackle a wide range of vocal material, and sings like a grown-up woman.

Marje

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:14 AM

I imagine Margaret Barry would have had quite a lot to say about the not so tasteful howling feedback that accompanied the broadcast, with a demonstration of how to be louder. Much louder.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 03:50 AM

Yes, Dick - now THAT would've curdled the coffee of the Women's Hour listeners! Dunno what they'd have made of it, but I do find the idea of Margaret Barry leading the Womad workshops, replete with her beltful of Guinness bottles, tickles me more than I can say.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:18 PM

DaveS - yes, I think you can add Patricia Flynn, but I'd like to add Grace Toland!

Kitty

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:12 PM

Anyone heard MargaretBarrys rendition?

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Tootler
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:00 PM

I recently upset a student on the Newcastle Folk degree by saying I thought Eliza Carthy had a better voice than Cara Dillon. After hearing this, I hold to my original view.

As someone said she has a pretty voice, but her rendition of She Moved Through the Fair was nothing special.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 02:09 PM

Is one allowed to add Patricia Flynn to this eclectic line up?

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 12:55 PM

Well, she's not exactly young.

Cara Dillon has been on the go for well over a decade and was definitely at her best when I saw her in 1996. She's now in her 30s.

Other woman singers in the Woman's Hour items have been a hell of a lot more gutsy than that girly stuff.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Diva
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 12:45 PM

Just accessed through the listen again thingy.....her basic ideas are ok..the telling of the story and the Irish style, particularly sean nos which has as many grace notes as can be fitted in as I remember from listening to people like the late Sean McDonnagh and John Dillon. Shes still a young singer with a pleasant voice and pretty and accessible, dare I say non threatening.....(sorry if that sounds really rude its not meant to be)... but we are all aware that radio four listeners and the general public couldn't cope with real gutsy singing so if she leads them towards Rosin or Rosie then thats a plus.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 12:35 PM

Rosie Stewart clearly has a lot of fans.

Here's another one.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Diva
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 12:25 PM

Absolutely Rosie Stewart.a real singer

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 12:05 PM

Indeed. How could I have forgotten to mention Rosie Stewart. I reviewed Farewell To Lovely Garrison several years ago. Has she released anything else since?

Here's an online concert from the Library of Congress.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 11:48 AM

YES RosieStewart,Now shes my sort of singer,I agree Mary,a fantstic singer,in fact I would say shes my favourite singer.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 11:40 AM

or Rosie Stewart of Fermanagh - wow, what a voice!

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 11:33 AM

. . . or Maggie Boyle.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 11:28 AM

I'd have been happier, however, if they'd asked Roisin White to do it.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: KeithofChester
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 11:07 AM

...It's not as is she's not qualified on paper to do this, having once won an All-Ireland singing trophy (I think when she was in a band called Oige which was OK) but that WOMAD should think she's the one to do it NOW.

Diane, you'd have been even more upset if WOMAD had asked Mary Black or Andrea Corr to do it.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 10:09 AM

The point of his Woman's Hour promo was, apparently (and scarily) that Ms Dillon is doing a WOMAD workshop on 'How To Sing Oirish'. It's not as is she's not qualified on paper to do this, having once won an All-Ireland singing trophy (I think when she was in a band called Oige which was OK) but that WOMAD should think she's the one to do it NOW. The first Equation recording was done at Realworld. I wonder if they've heard her since.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Mark H.
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 09:43 AM

Concerning Cara Dillon, Ruth Archer's second paragraph above says it all for me.
As for the BBC: it's very sad when the erstwhile world leaders in public broadcasting technology employ amateurs.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:44 AM

Travelling Folk is a great show. So too is Folkwaves with Mike Peat and Lester Simpson. I'm glad the listen again service exists - listen again folk page - as there's nothing folky on local radio round my way.

Nigel

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:36 AM

Thanks for that JOhn,

I use listen again a lot and I have a few radio stations I listen to. But whatever you do don't miss Travelling Folk when it returns on Radio Scotland after the summer. It is everything Mike Harding's Show isn't.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:35 AM

I quite like Cara Dillon - but she's not special. I wouldn't go out of my way to see her, but I do quite enjoy listening to her when I see her at a festival.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 07:27 AM

I've never quite got Cara Dillon. She's very pretty, with a very pretty voice, but her repertoire is littered with standards you'd hear from the local Oirish pub band. I assumed this was because a crossover career was planned for her and the music had to be more accessible to the general public, but that was ten years ago. I'd have thought she would have developed more artistically than she has...I half-expected to hear Danny Boy on Women's Hour (She Moved Through the Fair was an equally hackneyed and uninspiring choice).

I also thought it was really funny that after an opening clip of a song whose lyrics were totally lost in a rocked-up arrangement from her recent album, she went on to explain that the essence of Irish folk singing is about telling a story. Which is achieved, apparently, by including as many grace notes as possible.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:40 AM

Folkiedave-you can hear it on the listen again thing.

i gree about Mike Harding, he was going on about her all the time
. his show is a bit crap anyway.

now ive got a computer i listen to loads of better folk radio shows,

there is a website called radiocentre with acsess to ver 10,000 radio stations, (all totally free!).

A good one is Lve Ireland (www.liveireland.com).

you can search on your favourite types, folk classical etc.

also see a thread called Folk Music On The Radio, its an old one, so clicl "ALL" in thw searcher thing.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,John Robinson
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:39 AM

At least she did better than the BBC engineers.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:31 AM

Missed it.

I thought Mike Harding pushed her and pushed her and pushed her - when she was not really ready for it. Musically or personally.

Thus she entered the festival scene often at the top of the bill and couldn't really sustain it.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:23 AM

This one should work

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:23 AM

It doesn't.
Nor does Ms Dillon's idea of how to sing from a woman's point of view with a whiny, little-girly voice.

Try this:

Woman's Hour

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:17 AM

your link dosent work.

Subject: RE: folk on radio 4 now
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:14 AM

Actually, it's going to be one in the series of
Woman's Hour items of women performers which in recent times has included Kathryn Tickell, Mariza, Eliza Carthy & Norman Waterson, Athena, Karine Polwart and The Witches of Elswick.

This time, however, it's Cara Dillon talking to a self-confessed tone deaf presenter about how to approach Irish song. Getting out of Equation must have been a good start.

Subject: folk on radio 4 now
From: GUEST,jOhn
Date: 18 Jul 07 - 05:03 AM

on Wimmins hour, about irish folk singers