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BS: The birth of Great Britain

Wolfgang 19 Jul 07 - 05:07 AM
skipy 19 Jul 07 - 05:23 AM
Liz the Squeak 19 Jul 07 - 05:42 AM
Georgiansilver 19 Jul 07 - 06:01 AM
GUEST,Bob 19 Jul 07 - 07:37 AM
Rapparee 19 Jul 07 - 09:10 AM
Bert 19 Jul 07 - 10:03 AM
Mrrzy 19 Jul 07 - 10:24 AM
RangerSteve 19 Jul 07 - 06:37 PM
Folkiedave 19 Jul 07 - 06:42 PM
The Walrus 20 Jul 07 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Keinstein 20 Jul 07 - 04:59 AM
GUEST,ifor 20 Jul 07 - 10:43 AM
Big Al Whittle 20 Jul 07 - 01:01 PM
skipy 20 Jul 07 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,282RA 20 Jul 07 - 11:43 PM
Peace 21 Jul 07 - 12:18 AM
Little Hawk 21 Jul 07 - 01:32 AM
TheSnail 21 Jul 07 - 05:50 AM
Rusty Dobro 21 Jul 07 - 06:05 AM
skipy 21 Jul 07 - 09:22 AM
John MacKenzie 21 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM
Little Hawk 21 Jul 07 - 12:24 PM
Alice 21 Jul 07 - 01:05 PM
Alice 21 Jul 07 - 01:14 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Jul 07 - 02:18 AM
Uncle Boko 22 Jul 07 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,Art Thieme 22 Jul 07 - 06:08 PM
Bert 23 Jul 07 - 10:08 AM
Bert 23 Jul 07 - 10:11 AM
The Walrus 24 Jul 07 - 05:48 AM
Adrianel 28 Jul 07 - 08:58 PM
Gurney 28 Jul 07 - 09:51 PM
beardedbruce 10 Aug 07 - 11:22 AM
Bert 10 Aug 07 - 01:53 PM
beardedbruce 10 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM
SINSULL 10 Aug 07 - 02:31 PM
Bert 10 Aug 07 - 04:47 PM
Manitas_at_home 11 Aug 07 - 09:46 AM
Les in Chorlton 11 Aug 07 - 01:20 PM

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Subject: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:07 AM

Link to Nature prepublication

The island that is now England, Scotland and Wales was severed from continental Europe by a cataclysmic flood during the last ice age, according to a group of researchers based in Britain....
"This was perhaps the biggest flood on Earth we have evidence for"


Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: skipy
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:23 AM

The "land" between Norfolk & Holland used to be farmed!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:42 AM

"This was perhaps the biggest flood on Earth we have evidence for"

So far...

People in Sheffield may beg to differ.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:01 AM

But it's going to get worse!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 07:37 AM

Skipy, you said The "land" between Norfolk & Holland used to be farmed.

The lands around my home used to be farmed too, but since the rain arrived in June I can't even see grass let alone the farms, this weather is so bloody depressing.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Rapparee
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:10 AM

Bigger than the one that formed the Black Sea? Bigger than the one that formed the Med? Bigger than the Bonneville Flood?


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Bert
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:03 AM

The Ancient Britons dug the Channel to keep out the wogs.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:24 AM

Yes, I heard about this. Fascinating. Very different effect on the wildlife than a gradual separation... but this isn't the flood that spawned the Noah myth; that was the one that formed the Med, if I recall aright.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: RangerSteve
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:37 PM

I've also read that the flood that formed the Black Sea spawned the Noah myth.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:42 PM

Come to Sheffield or Hull. Greatest flood indeed...............

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: The Walrus
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 04:41 AM

"...The island that is now England, Scotland and Wales was severed from continental Europe by a cataclysmic flood during the last ice age, according to a group of researchers based in Britain..."

Apparently there is an area of the North Sea (near the Dogger Bank?), where fishermen regularly fish up Mammoth tusks - it seems that there was a fairly large herd drowned there.

W


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: GUEST,Keinstein
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 04:59 AM

The land that is now the North Sea would have been repeatedly uncovered and inundated as the sea level changed with the various ice ages. The Channel Gorge might have still been spectacular when early hom sap arrived at Sangatte, but it could also have been silted up by the river Thames/Rhine/Somme (Thrhomme?) and relatively easy to cross. The Isle (or perhaps Peninsula) of Dogger probably finally drowned only about 10000 years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 10:43 AM

Message to Bert
Keep that filthy racist stuff on Mudcat!!
ifor


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 01:01 PM

Apparently there is an area of the North Sea (near the Dogger Bank?), where fishermen regularly fish up Mammoth tusks

can I have one? I bet Rob Armstrong and Alan Marshall would love to have one of those.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: skipy
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 02:56 PM

"Keep that filthy racist stuff on Mudcat!!"
Are you sure that you meant to say "on"??????????????????????
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 11:43 PM

The Noah flood was celestial. It never happened on earth. The guys saying the Black Sea is the result of the Noah flood have a need to keep the funding coming in so they started this cockamamie stuff because gullible morons throw money at it just so long as it is something about Noah because they see how much funding people get trying to locate the ark. Notice too how the ark is never quite done away with. The door is always left open on this story. "We climbed Ararat and we could see the back end of the ark above the snow. It was amazing! And so HUGE!!!!!! But before we could close in, a big snowstorm hit and forced us back. But we would certainly like to return to the area as soon as the spring thaw hits." Somebody will offer to fund another expedition.

I'm assuming the guys in the Black Sea Flood theory know that the more astute among us know they're bullshitting about the flood in order to continue funding their true work. The problem is, they're now tied to this thing and it brings on the point at which your academic career becomes one of entertainment. You become a talking head if not a subject on "alternative science" programs rather than being a scientist.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Peace
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 12:18 AM

1) Bert was being facetious.

2) ifor posts as a guest because he like to snipe from waaaay back in the bleachers.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 01:32 AM

According to Indian Medicine people I've spoken to (who are entitled, as any of us are, to an opinion of their own) the flood was a worldwide event...only problem being: Noah's folks were by no means the only survivors. They were probably among the rather few survivors in the localized area where the Middle Eastern Noah legend sprang from, that's all. There were reputedly lots of survivors in a great variety of locations, according to those same medicine people. Some built boats and rafts, some simply got to high ground. In other words, it was a period of world-wide inundation (sustained extraordinary levels of rainfall, sufficient to flood all low-lying areas).

Such flood legends are found in most ancient cultures, but only the Hebrews mention "Noah" and his Ark. Other people mention other survivors entirely, survivors from their tribe or nation.

This has largely escaped western civilization, since they've been mesmerized by one account, the Biblical one, for the last couple of thousand years, and have ignored all the other accounts.

Such a flood may have been caused by a major climatic or atmospheric change, and if so, it could have affected pretty much the entire planet. It could even have been caused by a near passing of some other large heavenly body...Velikovsky was interested in those possibilities.

The trouble with the Bible account is that it takes what was probably a real event and makes a better cultural "story" out of it, that's all. People make up such stories after real events in order to prove a moral point of some kind about those events, because when things go wrong in a big way people always figure, "Well, God must have been mad at US, so that's why it happened, and only the 'good' people were allowed to survive."

Ha! Wouldn't it be lovely if the whole world revolved around us little people and our moral doings? ;-) I don't think it does.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: TheSnail
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 05:50 AM

I think Bert meant the Frogs, who eat snails as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 06:05 AM

Amateurs built the Ark; professionals built the 'Titanic'.......


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: skipy
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 09:22 AM

Frogs? cheese eating surrender monkeys, as I once heard them called!
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 09:26 AM

Bert, that word is very non U these days, and while it doesn't register as far up the Richter scale as the 'N' word, I'd be happy if I didn't see it used again, in jest or otherwise.
I know there is a school of thought that gives the origin of that word as an acronym for Wily Oriental Gentleman, but I feel it should now be consigned to the dustbin of history.
Giok


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 12:24 PM

Anybody remember Lenny Bruce? He repeated the various banned words of his day over and over until they became ridiculous and thereby completely lost their power to manipulate and unhinge the listener. They became laughable instead of shocking.

It was a refreshing time...quite unlike the present "rule by fear" consensus which has decided that certain words cannot be spoken...or even printed...in any context whatsoever.

Pitiable that a nation of people should be reduced to this kind of fearmongering thought control, in my opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 01:05 PM

Bigger than Glacial Lake Missoula flood that happened
several times, flooding to the Pacific
ocean from western Montana?
http://geology.com/news/2005/10/glacial-lake-missoula-flood.html


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jul 07 - 01:14 PM

map & description


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 02:18 AM

In earlier days when man couild only see to the horizon, anything that affected him personally, 'affected the whole world'...


Things haven't changed much really, it seems...


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Uncle Boko
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 01:00 PM

""Well, God must have been mad at US, so that's why it happened, and only the 'good' people were allowed to survive."

Change that to - "Well, God must have been mad at the USA, so that's why it happened, and only the 'good' people were allowed to survive." speaking in the future of course!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 22 Jul 07 - 06:08 PM

This was definitely a Cesarean birth!

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 10:08 AM

Just kidding guys. Folks from London think that The Wogs start at Calais in the South and Watford Gap in the North.

And it's not RACISM cos they are all the same race. So THERE!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 10:11 AM

Oh, that is unless you're from South of the River then you'd better get yer passport out to cross Westminster Bridge.

And there ain't nowhere civilized West of Aldgate Pump.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: The Walrus
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:48 AM

"...Oh, that is unless you're from South of the River then you'd better get yer passport out to cross Westminster Bridge..."

Yeah, They're all Barbarians North of the Bridge!

W


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Adrianel
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 08:58 PM

Little Hawk:
I thought it was fairly well established (at least in academic circles) that the Israelites lifted the whole story of The Flood lock, stock and barrel from the Epic of Gilgamesh (as well as much else), after their return from Babylon.
The refilling of the Mediterranean (about 5 million years ago) must have been SPECTACULAR. I wish I could have been there to see it - from a safe vantage point in the Atlas mountains, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 09:51 PM

I remember reading that the last bit of that one-time land bridge sank within recorded history, in mediaeval times. It was the Isle of Godwen, and is now the Goodwin Sands.
A long time since I read that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 11:22 AM

Stone Age Settlement Found Under English Channel

Heather Whipps
Special to LiveScience
LiveScience.com
1 hour, 14 minutes ago



Erosion on the floor of the English Channel is revealing the remains of a busy Stone Age settlement, from a time when Europe and Britain were still linked by land, a team of archaeologists says.

The site, just off the Isle of Wight, dates back 8,000 years, not long before melting glaciers filled in the Channel and likely drove the settlement's last occupants north to higher ground.


"This is the only site of its kind in the United Kingdom," said Garry Momber, director of the Hampshire and Wight Trust for Maritime Archaeology, which led the recent excavations. "It is important because this is the period when modern people were blossoming, just coming out of the end of the Ice Age, living more like we do today in the valleys and lowlands."


End of Ice Age caused channel flood


Lobsters mucking around the seabed at the site about 10 years ago revealed a cache of Mesolithic flints, prompting further excavations that uncovered two hearths (ancient ovens) dangling precariously from the edge of an underwater cliff.


Burnt wood fragments gouged with cut marks and a layer of wood chippings were found lying under 35 feet of water during the latest dig. Divers brought the material to the surface still embedded in slabs of the sea floor that were carried up in specially-designed boxes, which were then pieced back together and examined and dated in the lab.


"We now have unequivocal evidence of human activity at the site," Momber told LiveScience. "There were people here actively making stuff and being quite industrious."


At 8,000-years-old, the settlement is the only underwater Mesolithic site in Britain, though it is probably part of a much larger area of occupation yet to be uncovered, Momber said.


As the climate began to warm up near the end of the Ice Age about 10,000 years ago, people were moving into Northern Europe and settling down in the many river valleys left behind by melting glaciers, Momber explained. Many of the valleys, such as the ones now beneath the English Channel, were eventually inundated completely when temperatures returned to normal.


"A good chunk of the material left behind from this cultural period is eventually going to be found underwater," Momber said.


Underwater sites better preserved


Despite the logistical problems of underwater archaeology, the Isle of Wight site and others like it are usually better preserved than their counterparts on land, Momber said.


When the floodwater rose slowly in the English Channel, it deposited layers of silt atop the settlement, encasing it in an oxygen-free environment that preserves even organic materials such as wood and food.


"With underwater sites, all the trappings of a society are going to remain, not just the stone," Momber said. The trade-off is an environment that can carry away the precious remains at any time—a real concern at the Isle of Wight settlement.


"The erosion of this site would be a loss of information to humanity, not just the washing away of a bit of material," he said. "There is the potential to find so much more there; there is so much to learn."


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Bert
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 01:53 PM

'End of Ice Age caused channel flood'

Also a contributing factor could be that, due to movement of tectonic plates, the South East of England is sinking at the rate of about an eighth of an inch a year.

The site of the Roman fort of Othona is completely under water.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 02:11 PM

Poor planning on the part of those Romans!


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 02:31 PM

Has anyone written a mythical account of the flooding of New Orleans? First the angry god sent a useless president, then an ineffectual storm. Then in a fury he smote the levees with his sword of justice and drowned all the evil doers in the French Quarter. But some managed to escape to a giant coliseum where he trapped them without food or water or medical supplies. Was it forty days and forty nights? I forget. I do remember that the Canadians from the North arrived first to help.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Bert
Date: 10 Aug 07 - 04:47 PM

Poor planning on the part of those Romans! They did the same with London. The only reason London isn't underwater is the nearly two thousand years of rubbish dumped there.

Roman London is twenty feet below the surface of present day London.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 09:46 AM

Don't worry, St. Cedd moved the fort futher inland and used the stone to build St Peters on the Wall at Bradwell.


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Subject: RE: BS: The birth of Great Britain
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Aug 07 - 01:20 PM

Could the the rather large number of "Flood" myths from many cultures be related to melt waters as the last ice age ended?


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