Harris and the Mare - murder or not?

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 01:44 AM

That's an old Ian Tyson song, Art.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 03:27 AM

But as the knife came down, I lashed out from the ground
And the knife was in his breast and he rolled o'er


Definitely not murder.

Self defence.

Case dismissed.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 03:50 AM

And Big Mick requested a song list from the book "Songs from Fogaty's Cove"... it includes all songs (as follows) from Stan's first 4 albums:

Watching The Apples Grow
Forty-Five Years
Fogarty's Cove
Maid on the Shore
Barrett's Privateers
Fisherman's Wharf
Giant
The Rawdon Hills
Plenty of Hornpipe
The Wreck of the Athens Queen
Make and Break Harbour
Dark Eyed Molly
Oh No, Not I
Second Effort
Bluenose
The Jeannie C.
So Blue
Front Runner
Song of the Candle
Try Like the Devil
Turnaround
The Witch of the Westmoreland
First Christmas
The Mary Ellen Carter
The White Collar Holler
The Flowers of Bermuda
Rolling Down to Old Maui
Harris and the Mare
Delivery Delayed
Northwest Passage
The Field Behind the Plow
Night Guard
Working Joe
You Can't Stay Here
The Idiot
Lies
Canol Road
Free in the Harbour
California

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:09 PM

Ian Tyson might've sung it, but it was an old song from the changing of life's situations in Texas.

I'm gonna leave old Texas now
Ain't got no place for the long-horned cow
They've roped and fenced all over my range
And the people there---they are so strange
Gonna take my horse and away I'll go
Find a better life in Mexico
And so kind folks, I must bid adieu
I'm a better man for just the knowing of you!

Art

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:48 PM

The Rogers song tells a story that has appeared on police blotters all over the country. Anger, drink and a woman end in killing. Roger's song packs a punch and sticks in the mind. I am reminded of the killing on Catfish Row in the first act of "Porgy and Bess."

"I'm Going to Leave Old Texas Now" has several versions, usually sung to the tune of "Trail to Mexico." Frank Goodwyn sang it, among others. I have not heard it with the last line as given by Art Thieme. What is the source, Art?

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:09 PM

"The Rogers song tells a story that has appeared on police blotters all over the country. Anger, drink and a woman end in killing." -

Okay - but for that sort of thing, I prefer something along the lines of the old Jimmy Buffett song:


It was a Cuban Crime of Passion,
Messy and old-fashion';
.....................


I was hoping someone would reveal something in Harris, etc., that I had missed, or offer some way of looking at it that would change my feeling about it, but I guess that ain't gonna happen. Maybe it really does just come down to a matter of taste ...

I might come back to comment on a few other things that have come up, if I have time.

Art: I think you're right about Stan's 'personal protest songs' ... I think that was always my sense regarding this song - but I questioned the need to protest whatever it is exactly he is protesting here ...

Later, gang!

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:20 PM

Oh, I'm thinking of a different song, Art. Ian & Sylvia's "These Friends of Mine".

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 08:47 PM

Gordon Bok does it with 3 verses I think.

But I got the one I used to do back in the late 1950s from Bob Gibson. I put it on a sampler compilation LP issued by Rockford, Illinois' folk club named CHARLOTTE'S WEB for an early anniversary---possibly their first!? The LP was called GET FOLKED---about '74 or '75.

It also closes the 2006 CD of my songs Dennis Cook produced. It's on Sandy and Caroline Paton's grand ol' Folk Legacy Records.

Art

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: maeve
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 07:53 AM

Art- I learned it at school in Indiana in about 1965-66.
That version is:

Old Texas

I'm going to leave *(echo: I'm going to leave)
Old Texas now *
They've got no use *
For the long horned cow *

They've plowed and fenced *
My cattle range *
And the people there *
Are all so strange *

I'll bid adieu *
To the Alamo *
And turn my head *
Toward Mexico *


maeve

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: maeve
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 08:12 AM

And now, back to our regularly scheduled program...

maeve

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 09:51 AM

Well I must admit this post has puzzled me. To me the whole story is obvious. Old Guy, younger wife, tho' not stated, drunk ass in a bar, hits on her, hits her, gets dead. End of story.

But the whole is she isn't she dead too thing bothered me a bit.
So I'll ask this, and maybe it was covered already, I haven't motored through the whole thread.

Which was she first, In a Swoon, or Cold as clay?

Don

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Marc Bernier
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 10:42 AM

So which came 1rst, Coward of the County or Harris and the Mare? Has any one else ever found it curious, that two guys named Rogers recorded a song telling really similar stories, during the same period of the late 70's?

Also. Could one of you folks who do it post the chords you use please? I get this song requested from time to time, (I think it's a great song by the way) and I'm frequently willing to give it a shot. However about the time I'm committed to singing the song I always feel that I'm missing something in the chord pattern I use that particular night.

Great thread
Marc Bernier

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 11:08 AM

"Has any one else ever found it curious, that two guys named Rogers recorded a song telling really similar stories, during the same period of the late 70's?"

Hmmm, I think you may be on to something ... Has anyone ever seen Kenny Rogers without the beard - and with the top of his head shaved? ... No? I wonder why not ...

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Marc Bernier
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 11:31 AM

Hmmm. There's even more to ponder here than meets the eye.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 11:38 AM

Don, I believe she's cold AND in a swoon. Symptoms of shock...

It certainly isn't the primary thing on the protagonist's mind by the end of the song, and I have to believe that's because he believes she's going to be fine once they get home.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Black Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 12:30 PM

Well Guest Don - this post may puzzle you but only because you see it your way (is there a song there?)

I have never thought of a 'younger' wife - nowhere does it give that indication.

Let me change the scene a little:-

Clary comes in - 'jokingly' says wife will leave with him - she takes offense & strikes him (first blow) - Clary reacts instictively & hits her - Husband attacks Clary, grabs by throat & repeatedly bangs head against door - Clary draws knife in self-defence & kills husband.

Would Clary be convicted of murder, manslaughter or be aquitted on self-defence grounds?

Good songs make you dig beneath the surface eh?
(BTW if you search for an interview with Billy Edd Wheeler you will find out how 'Coward of the County' came to be written - nothing to do with Stan or Kenny Rogers)

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 12:52 PM

Reading between the lines: "young" Clary goes after the wife of a fifty-nine year old man; ergo, the wife is substantially younger than her husband - stands to reason, don't it? No, it's not stated explicitly; this is what interpretation is about.

Of course, other interpretations are possible: maybe 'young Clary' is 87 - but 'old Clary', his dad, is 102 ...

(BTW, is there anything interesting about the how 'Coward of the County' came to be written? Because I'm perfectly willing to take your word for it that it had nothing to do with either Rogers without searching out an interview.)

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Black Hawk
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:09 PM

Sorry meself, but that is your (and maybe others) interpretation, not mine.
As to 'stands to reason' - here is a true story.
Whilst overseeing divers installing a new jetty at a chemical complex I routinely visited their canteen cabin to review workloads. Everyday I would see on a table a 'mens' magazine called 'Over Fifties - the Mature woman'. As the divers were all young I asked who they belonged to. The youngest lad (about 22 yrs old) owned up. Who wants to look at naked women over 50 I said. When my 'pal' (their boss) told my wife I was in serious trouble. My wife (and I) were both early fifties.

Young men can hit on older women as young women can hit on older men.

(Interesting about BEW and CotC if you are into country music & Gatlin Brothers stuff. BEW wrote some of the best songs to come out of America IMO)

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:12 PM

"Coward of the County" written by Roger Bowling and Billy Ed Wheeler.
Lyrics here:
http://www.guntheranderson.com/v/data/cowardof.htm
Coward of the County

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:38 PM

"She fell unto the floor LIKE she were dead."

The story of the Conshie in the war is the moral irony to me. AS he explains all to Harris.

Self defense on Clary's part is only admissible when force meets equal force. Clary was a belligerent drunk and had the knife, the Storyteller was unarmed.

As to whether this rates writting a song or not. Of course it does.
Songs are communications to tell a story, express love and affection, entertain, repeat an event.... all of which happens here.

Maybe not enough of a song for some, plenty for me.

Don

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:52 PM

I heard a snatch of Stan Rogers' song: "Goin' Down to Old Maui" and had no idea of who wrote it or what else he may have written until I was at a party and mentioned the snatch of song and was leant a tape of "Between The Breaks". Immediately learned it and "Barrett's Privateers" for singing while hiking. Stan's voice had the earthy low tones and his lyrics the historic range and maritime slant I'd associated with Gordon Bok.

As for the theme of peacefulness versus violence in everyday life, I think the song is a consistent look at the situation just as the theme crops up again and again in the songs mentioned in this thread, and such films as "High Noon" "Shane" and "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance". It is a basic American theme of how to be a civilized man without being a pushover, along with the allied observation that it's easier to make a peaceful man violent than the other way around.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 01:55 PM

"Young men can hit on older women as young women can hit on older men."

This is not news to me. However, it is enough of a departure from what is expected conventionally in a narrative as to require some kind of notice, I should think.

I'm just trying to find an interpretation that provides some substance to - well, I have said.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 02:20 PM

I have now read the whole thing and the conclusion is obvious.

WE all should be doing something else with our Saturday.

Don

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Willie-O
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 02:50 PM

Robomatic, if you want to straighten out the origin of "Maui", you need to look up another Stan-- t he late Stan Hugill, the only working folksinger in the 1980's who also sailed on the Cutty Sark. No kidding.

This isn't my favourite Stan song. I saw him perform it at least once--I do recall Garnet remarking that it was his favourite at the time, "cause it's about a guy who finally takes a stand". Beats me--ask Garnet. If you take it at face value, I'd call it justifiable, but the scenario is too artificial for me to take it seriously. I'm not a complete pacifist, but it's a perfectly good philosophy for those who practice it with some consistency, which the narrator doesn't.

I would urge anyone to go buy Songs From Fogarty's Cove (OFC Publications). Not only is the selection of songs outstanding, but if you are interested in learning effective use of DADGAD tuning, this book was the best training I ever had.

W-O

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 28 Jul 07 - 02:52 PM

Ah! Finally, some sense is introduced into this discussion!

(robomatic: Stan didn't write "Maui"; it's trad. - there was quite a long and involved thread on its origins recently.)

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Jul 07 - 10:06 PM

And it's "Rolling Down to Old Maui", just in case you do a search for it.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:54 PM

There's no moral inconsistancy or hypocracy whatsoever in someone who is unwilling to take orders from the government to kill total strangers, but who is ready to use their bare hands to defend their family from a direct attack.

There's a term for that - "fist-fighting pacifism".

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 01:59 PM

McGrath,

Right on!

Art

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:08 PM

I'm with Willie-O here: "the scenario is too artificial for me to take it seriously" - although it is clear that many others don't have that sense in regard to this perceived artificiality, and there doesn't seem to be any resolving that one - either you find it convincing or you don't, apparently ...

I agree with McGrath in regard to the "fist-fighting pacifism" ...

And I disagree with Garnet, if he thinks (or thought) that being a conscientious objector means that you won't take a stand. To my mind, it means exactly the opposite.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Black Hawk unlogged
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:38 PM

When I wrote
Also a hypocrite - 'Nor would I keep a friend who raised his hand' yet is disappointed when they treat him that way
I was referring to the fact that HE states he would not keep a friend who used violence but is miffed at his neighbours for not sticking by him when he uses it. Nothing to do with wars, governments etc.

I agree with GUESTmeself that standing up for your beliefs usually takes more guts than going with the flow.

The fact that it is so artificial & contrived is what gives me doubts about it - BUT I still like the song & Stans delivery. (Never heard it by a female & cannot imagine it having the same impact but am willing to be amazed)

Thanks all for your views.

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Big Mick, in South Dakota
Date: 31 Jul 07 - 02:44 PM

Right on, meself. I suppose the rub comes in the "common usage" as opposed to the "definition". I am not sure there is such a thing as a true pacifist, according to the definition. And I believe that someone willing to go to jail rather than participate in an event (war) to which s/he is totally opposed on a moral, principled basis, is taking a stand which requires a great deal of courage. I think "fist fighting pacifism" is a fine description.

As to the song, hell, there are many songs that one cannot take seriously, but they still enjoy. This one is just a yarn, with a bit of Stan's prodding nature tucked in it, and it is enjoyable.

BTW, I ordered Songs from Fogarty's Cove. In the course of that process I corresponded back and forth with Ariel. She seems like a great person.

Mick

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 04:04 PM

Got the songbook. Here is what Stan says about this song:

Grit Laskin plays Northumbrian Smallpipes, see, and I thought it would be nice to have him play them on the album. But the pipes only play in the keys of F and E-flat, and I had no songs in these keys, so I had to write one. CBC Radio Drama turned this song into a radio play, which was broadcast on "Nightfall" on Good Friday, 1982.

READ THE STORY OF THE SONG AND PLAY HERE.

A recording of the play, as well as another that Stan wrote the music for (The Sisters by Silver Donald Cameron) compromise a CD titled "Poetic Justice" which is available from Fogerty's Cove Music (hence it is available from Stan's family and they benefit...thankfully) and can be ordered through StanRogers.net.

BTW, the songbook is wonderful, especially Stan's observations about the songs and the albums. Well worth the money for Stan fans.

And, now, I finally realized the mistake I was making in the song.....

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 05:33 PM

Interesting. Unfortunately, the press release doesn't really throw any more light on the song - there's just enough there to reinforce each of the various interpretations that have come up on this thread.

A little poignant at the end, with the speculation on Stan's future projects - more radio work, a novel ...

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 06:45 PM

Is Garnet participating in this thread with another name?----Someting someone said sounded like he was here...

And give my best to Ariel! Good memories -- with Emily Friedman, Juel Ulven and "Come For To Sing" magazine in Chicago-- Stan at Holstein's bar. A rose, by ANY OTHER NAME, would smell as sweet. ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Harris and Mare - murder or not?
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Aug 07 - 06:19 PM

...and I had no songs in these keys, so I had to write one...

Yeah I read that in the book, too. Mick and thought "But that's why we have capos!"

A glib little intro on Stan's part, but I know what he means. When I was putting together a medley of Celtic and old-time tunes on the mandolin, I wanted to include a jig in F#m. Now I could have transpose, but I found it just as easy to compose one. I called it "Frost on the Pumpkin", because that's what I was looking at out the window at the time. And it had some runnin'-up-the-fretboard tinkly bits in it.

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,GUEST, pirbird
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:01 AM

Anyone having trouble believing the scenario to be plausible should have a look at the trial of Jane Hurshman, who killed her abusive husband, Billy Stafford, in 1982, in Halifax. Billy was a known bully, tolerated by the community for years, who was well known for terrorizing whole families if one member got in his way for the smallest of offenses. Everyone knew that if you cross him in any way at all, you would have to end up killing him. Most people, of course, don't want to kill people over small offenses, and let him have his way.

Jane wasn't getting any help from the community and knew that if she left him, he would go after her parents and then kill her. She did the only thing she could think of - she waited till he passed out drunk one night and shot him. Jane was convicted of manslaughter and spent six months in prison.

On the night she killed him, she fully believed he would kill her when he woke up. In Canada, you cannot use undue force in self defence i.e. you cannot use a weapon on an unarmed attacker. Billy was passed out. Jane shot him. She did time. The courts were sympathetic, she did the least possible time in a minimum security prison. Her story was dramatized in "Life with Billy" and drew attention to the whole problem of domestic abuse.

If Clancy was a bully like Billy, this explains the inaction of the onlookers in the bar. He would also have enjoyed bullying someone not likely to fight back, like a pacifist.

I am the daughter of a Mennonite. I am not a pacifist myself, but respect the tremendous courage that often has been shown by people of true pacifist convictions. My mother's people fled pogroms in Russia to settle in Canada. Her great uncle told stories of whole villages being herded into wooden buildings which were then set on fire by Cossacks. Pacifists have been jailed and even lynched for their refusal to go to war.

On October 26, 2006, a number of Amish school children were shot and killed in the community of Nickel Mines. The community publicly forgave the shooter. They also also set up a charitable fund for the family of the shooter. Knowing the kind of conformist pressures exerted in religious communities, I am extremely dubious about ritualized forgiveness ceremonies. The salient fact is, however, the community most definitely did not call for vengeance or punishment.

As for the "bitch slap", some men just don't take no for an answer. They see any verbal response as coyness, and a tease, on the part of the woman; and often take this as an invitation to be even more aggressive. Maybe the wife sized him up as beyond reason and acted accordingly. Since most women are less physically powerfull than most men, most bitch slaps don't do any real harm.

It's true that around 50% of Mennonite men in Canada did respond to the call up for military service during World War II. But the other half did not.

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 11:12 AM

A bit of thread drift but Jane Hurshman was found not guilty of murder by a jury of her peers at trial. That should have ended the case right there but the crown prosecuter appealed the decision. (allowed under Canadian law)
The jury decision was rendered on the feeling that her action was one of self defense. The crown argued that Stafford was asleep and drunk at the time he was shot and the danger to Hurshman's life was not immediate. A life of threats and violent abuse was not sufficient justification.
The appeal judge (no jury) followed the letter of the law and found her guilty of manslaughter. A great deal of public outrage followed and the case showed the stupidity of laws being held above justice!

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 12 - 10:57 PM

The American anarchist writer Paul Goodman described his position as being "a fist-fighting pacifist", and that has always seemed a pretty morally sound stance, in principle at least. Though I doubt if either Paul Goodman or myself would in practice be too likely to come out winner in a fist-fight.

So I don't see anything inconsistent in the narrator's actions or reprehensible in his wife's. As for the bully, anyone who pulls out a lethal weapon in a fight has no call to object if it ends up being used on them. And I'd read it that the wife is 'cold as clay' because she's in a state of shock at the whole episode.

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST,The Crispy Druid
Date: 20 Jul 14 - 01:12 PM

Call me an overanlyzer - but I don't think any of the three survived the encounter.

I don't think anyone's disputing that Cleary bought it when he fell on his own knife; so I'll move on.

Next, I know it unlikely to kill from a single blow - but that the wife is still unconscious a half-mile's walk (stagger?) later, and that I don't think body temperature drops drastically from being knocked out; I think Cleary managed to end her life. That the speaker refuses to accept that she is dead is, I think, a reasonable response to the sudden and violent loss of a loved one.

Lastly, after Cleary pulled the knife he struck the speaker a blow that brought him to the ground and covered him in blood. I think that wound was a deadly one.

When the speaker meets Harris, coming up on a cart with a horse... I think Harris passed away long ago, maybe went to war when the speaker stayed home and died in the fighting; come as an agent of Death to collect the Speaker as he bleeds out. It seems to me that Stan puts an awful lot of nostalgia on that first line, yon trap and that old mare.

That is, if the speaker even left the room. Perhaps the people in the bar never lifted a hand to help him out because the rest of the scene after his fight with Cleary could have been a hallucination brought about by loss of blood.

At least; it's this line of interpretation that sent the chills up and down my spine and made me again terribly sorry that I'll never have a chance to see Stan live in concert.

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 07:36 PM

I think Harris is his dog and he is asking him to fetch the mare because his wife is too heavy to carry.

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: GerryM
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 05:10 AM

Chris Gudgeon, in his biography of Stan Rogers, writes about Harris,

This song started when Stan, who considered himself a pacifist, asked: "What would cause me to raise my hand at another man?" The answer: "If they laid a hand on my wife."

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: JHW
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 09:29 AM

Yesterday I was remembering 'smiling ba'rds lying to you every where you go' (after hearing a true tale of drowned immigrants) but it took me a while to recall where it came from. I then remembered being disappointed when I found out that Mary Ellen Carter was not a true story. So does that make a better songwriter or storyteller?

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 11:37 AM

Never heard of this song. Really like it.

Pacifist here, offsprung from conscientious objector in WWII.

Subject: RE: Harris and the Mare - murder or not?
From: Felipa
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 12:48 PM

It's an interesting discussion; I can see why one participant in the debate used this song in the classroom. In fact, the literary criticism above even includes discussion of what people know about the author to help them interpret the text.

My own reaction was very much, is this song based on a real story. Then I read that Art Thieme had a similar experience of having to defend his wife in a pub. What if the man he hit has fallen and hit his head, dying or being left seriously brain damaged? It happens. I wondered did Art tell Stan the story before Stan composed Harris and the Mare. Though I was thinking more on the lines of an older historical story. If the song was based on a news story or trial report, Rogers would probably had said so in the intro in his song book. And his biographer said the song came from Rogers' own pondering of what might cause him to react with violence.

I certainly donn't see the lyrics as a story of hypocrisy, rather of cognitive dissonance. The narrator sees himself as a principled man of peace, and though he lashed out in justifiable anger he had not intended to kill (he had not pulled a knife, the dead man had rolled on to his own knife). The narrator is shocked at what has happened and feels an internal conflict. The biggest question though may be why the others neither intervened nor even helped in the aftermath .. one thing I wondered was whether there was some old resentment over the narrator having been a "conshie" at the time of war.